Gluten-free Bread

[Sir_Sanuk]

Hi, I'm a coeliac living in Bangkok. I've managed to find gluten-free biscuits, pasta and spaghetti in Villa Market, but as of yet am still unable to find gluten-free bread anywhere.

Has anyone ever seen it in Bangkok?

Thanks.

[jfchandler]

To others who may not recognize this, two of the most common forms of gluten-free bread are those made from either RICE or POTATO flours. What the OP particularly needs to avoid is WHEAT.

[zorro1]

Absolutely positively no gluten free bread so stop waisting your time however....if you go to the supermarket in the shopping centre ground floor next door to the marriott hotel near sukhumvit soi 4 you can purchase gluten free self raising flour already premixed. simply add 3 table spoons of oil and 420 mls of water and stir and allow to rise for 45 mins. Heat oven (I bought a little portable one 2000bht) to 180c and bake for 35 mins. you can add sesame seeds etc and I actually add a spoon of paprika powder to get it a nice colour. I been gluten free for 20 years and this is a great bread especially toasted. Best to slice and freeze asap and pop straight into toaster

Edited February 4, 2008 by zorro1

[sureena]

Hi.. I use to buy gluten free bread from Verasu. It is located on the Wireless Road.

Sureena

Hi, I'm a coeliac living in Bangkok. I've managed to find gluten-free biscuits, pasta and spaghetti in Villa Market, but as of yet am still unable to find gluten-free bread anywhere.

Has anyone ever seen it in Bangkok?

Thanks.

[jfchandler]

Regarding Zorro1's post above, there is a Villa Supermarket in the basement level of what I believe is called the Ploenchit Center, just up the street from the Marriott Hotel on Sukhumvit Road... I'm assuming that is the market he's referring to...

PS Zorro... what kind of gluten free flour (rice??? other???) do they have available for making bread????

[Orangutan]

Zorro,

Would also like to have the name of the store, and the brand name of the gluten free self raising flour already premixed. Is that your recipe for the bread, or is it included on the packaging?

Thanks,

-O

[jfchandler]

Since the last post here....I haven't been back to the Villa Market near the Marriott... But today I was shopping at the Villa Market nearby on Suk Soi 11, and found I believe what's been mentioned above here...

Never saw this before... but today I noticed boxes of a brand called Orgran from Australia... red and white in color... in the flour/baking products section. I saw at least two kinds... one type a 500g box of gluten/wheat/yeast-free self-raising flour, and the other a box of gluten/yeast/wheat free cake mix.

I bought a box of the self-raising flour to try... at 185 baht per box.. a bit pricey... But it says it has NO gluten, wheat, dairy, egg, yeast or soy... The ingredient label, listed in English among other languages, says maize starch, tapioca flour, rice flour and a couple other things...

The box says it basically can be used in recipies in place of wheat flour, but that sometimes adding an egg or skim milk powder (if allowed by a person's diet) can help.

I've never heard of this brand before...but their box lists a web site... www.orgran.com... And the box info says they make more than 70 products that are available in more than 40 countries....

Bringing my breadmaker back from the U.S. on my next trip back... Looking forward to giving it a try here... in LOS....

[zorro1]

Since the last post here....I haven't been back to the Villa Market near the Marriott... But today I was shopping at the Villa Market nearby on Suk Soi 11, and found I believe what's been mentioned above here...

Never saw this before... but today I noticed boxes of a brand called Orgran from Australia... red and white in color... in the flour/baking products section. I saw at least two kinds... one type a 500g box of gluten/wheat/yeast-free self-raising flour, and the other a box of gluten/yeast/wheat free cake mix.

I bought a box of the self-raising flour to try... at 185 baht per box.. a bit pricey... But it says it has NO gluten, wheat, dairy, egg, yeast or soy... The ingredient label, listed in English among other languages, says maize starch, tapioca flour, rice flour and a couple other things...

The box says it basically can be used in recipies in place of wheat flour, but that sometimes adding an egg or skim milk powder (if allowed by a person's diet) can help.

I've never heard of this brand before...but their box lists a web site... www.orgran.com... And the box info says they make more than 70 products that are available in more than 40 countries....

Bringing my breadmaker back from the U.S. on my next trip back... Looking forward to giving it a try here... in LOS....

Sorry I didn't reply earlier but I unsubscribed . That's the one I was talking about and I bring it back from oz as its half the price there. My recipe in the earlier post is for oven baked bread as there is no recipe on the pack itself. Word or warning, when you find it you should stock up as Villa may take another 3 mths to re order

[jfchandler]

Wanted to update this thread a bit...

Was shopping at the Carrefour store in Lad Prao over the weekend, and came across two different products available, both of the Basco brand from Australia.

One was Basco's wheat and gluten free bread mix, 375g box for 155 baht. The recipe on the box says to add only 1 egg and one cup of water. The package ingredient lists does not mention any yeast, but does include a variety of milk and soy product ingredients.

The second was Basco's multi purpose baking mix, 450g for 219 baht. The box includes recipes for blueberry and several other muffins, and pizza bread, using the contents. The pizza bread recipe calls for adding only 1 cup of water, 2 egg whites, and 3 tbs of vegetable oil. The mix likewise includes some soy and milk product ingredients.

At that particular Carrefour store, these and some other related baking items were placed in an odd area, on a aisle that was labeled for monk's gift packages.

Below is a photo of the Orgran self-raising flour that Zorro and I spoke of previously as being available (sometimes) at Villa Markets locations in BKK. That package, which was priced at 185 baht when I bought it, had 500g contents and was even more allergen free -- saying it had no gluten, wheat, dairy, egg, yeast, soy or sugar.

The box does not include any recipes, but instead, says to simply use in place of wheat flour in baking recipes....and I'd assume, also omit adding traditional yeast, since the Orgran flour is self-raising.

Just received my U.S. bread maker/baker machine by shipment from the States, so I'm anxious to give some of these recipes a try, since I'm trying to stick to a yeast and gluten free diet at present.

[Sir_Sanuk]

Thanks for the update. Too bad I am far too lazy to make my own gluten-free bread. Would be great if the supermarkets sold it by the loaf.

Also, I'd buy that stuff up in bulk whenever you see it because these products seem to come and go. For example, I was delighted to find Orgran gluten-free spaghetti in Villa Market and enjoyed eating it for about a month, when suddenly it stopped appearing on the shelves

[zorro1]

Wanted to update this thread a bit...

Was shopping at the Carrefour store in Lad Prao over the weekend, and came across two different products available, both of the Basco brand from Australia.

One was Basco's wheat and gluten free bread mix, 375g box for 155 baht. The recipe on the box says to add only 1 egg and one cup of water. The package ingredient lists does not mention any yeast, but does include a variety of milk and soy product ingredients.

The second was Basco's multi purpose baking mix, 450g for 219 baht. The box includes recipes for blueberry and several other muffins, and pizza bread, using the contents. The pizza bread recipe calls for adding only 1 cup of water, 2 egg whites, and 3 tbs of vegetable oil. The mix likewise includes some soy and milk product ingredients.

At that particular Carrefour store, these and some other related baking items were placed in an odd area, on a aisle that was labeled for monk's gift packages.

Below is a photo of the Orgran self-raising flour that Zorro and I spoke of previously as being available (sometimes) at Villa Markets locations in BKK. That package, which was priced at 185 baht when I bought it, had 500g contents and was even more allergen free -- saying it had no gluten, wheat, dairy, egg, yeast, soy or sugar.

The box does not include any recipes, but instead, says to simply use in place of wheat flour in baking recipes....and I'd assume, also omit adding traditional yeast, since the Orgran flour is self-raising.

Just received my U.S. bread maker/baker machine by shipment from the States, so I'm anxious to give some of these recipes a try, since I'm trying to stick to a yeast and gluten free diet at present.

I use the bottom pic and the way to bake is outlined in my first post. I usually bring back as many boxs as i can from oz as there around half price

[jfchandler]

Thanks for the update. Too bad I am far too lazy to make my own gluten-free bread. Would be great if the supermarkets sold it by the loaf.

Also, I'd buy that stuff up in bulk whenever you see it because these products seem to come and go. For example, I was delighted to find Orgran gluten-free spaghetti in Villa Market and enjoyed eating it for about a month, when suddenly it stopped appearing on the shelves

All, I also haven't had any luck in finding already-baked gluten free bread in BKK, though I suspect it's out there somewhere... May not be labeled like that....but simply as bread using only a different kind of flour (rice, corn, etc). I need to check out the Verasu cafes in BKK more as a possible venue...

As to store availability of these products, yes, I agree particularly about the Villa Markets.... It's really hit and miss there.

SS, I've yet to find gluten free pasta in either the Soi 11 or Soi 2 Villas where I shop.... (PS - there is a separate TV thread on gluten-free pasta) though I've seen other people say they've had it sometimes... Same about the Orgran self-rising flour... They have it sometimes....but rarely seems to be the most common status.

On the other hand, for whatever it's worth, the Carrefour in Lad Prao this past weekend was very well stocked with both of those Basco products above... Plenty of boxes on the shelves... I also shop at the Carrefour at OnNut, but haven't gone looking for it there yet. Next time I'm by CF in OnNut, I'll report on what I find there.

[jfchandler]

Hmmm.... OK.... so much for the first try using the wheat/gluten-free Basco bread mix mentioned above, at least in connection with an electric bread mixing/baking machine.

Tried their mix yesterday in my 1-1/2 pound bread maker, and ended up with a nicely baked bread brick.... The loaf didn't rise at all, so the resulting bread, while edible and not bad in taste, was VERY DENSE...

I followed the instructions on the Basco box, which admittedly are not for bread machines, but rather, for mixing in a bowl and then pouring into a mold for the oven. Usually, there shouldn't be much difference, regardless of which way you prepare/bake. But not in this case.

So, I emailed the customer service email address for the company and explained what happened and asked for advice. Got the email response back today saying only, their bread mix had been tested when prepared as indicated on the box, and had not been tested using bread machines. So...they had nothing to offer....

Maybe it's just me... but it's hard to imagine a modern, Australia-based manufacturer of packaged bread mixes would not test or imagine that people might want to use them in bread machines.....

Anyway, I've still got a couple more boxes at home, so I'll probably try one prepared according to the box and baked in a regular oven (that I also have), and maybe use the other in my bread machine, and try adding some additional leavening agents like baking powder and soda....to see if that helps.

Any suggestions???

[zorro1]

Its not the bread its the machine, unless you have a gluten free setting. It has something to do with the rise cycle. You can manually override your machine but you need to google all of the above to get the timing right. I bought a machine in oz and gave it away

[jfchandler]

WOW, my bread machine has a couple of different settings.... one for regular bread, one for french bread, one for sweet bread and the last one for manual (which only mixes and kneeds the dough, but doesn't bake it in the machine).

No setting for gluten-free, and I'd be surprised to see a gluten-free setting on a bread machine... Never heard of that....

But, I've only ever used the regular bread setting on mine. Never tried and have no idea how the machine operates differently if I choose french or sweet. (And the user's manual doesn't explain what's different about those settings),

Any idea if any of the other settings would work better for gluten-free??

[zorro1]

"gluten-free bread only needs one rise cycle while regular bread needs two rise cycles". Just keep googling that and you will come up with dozens of threads. You can use your machine as long as you have the instruction manual by stopping the machine during the rise cycle and then switching it back on again. The time frame is less so you will need to research

Here is a start, good luck http://myceliacblog.com/archives/26

Edited October 7, 2008 by zorro1

[jfchandler]

Zorro...thanks for the suggestions.... After your post, I spent a couple of hours yesterday (ohhh...what a life) trying to research this whole thing. I know a whole lot more now than before...but not sure I found a definite answer....

Here's what I discovered... I have a older DAK/Welbilt breadmaker known as DAK FAB 100-3 or Welbilt ABM 100-3. It has several automatic cycles, but they all have the same times for two separate kneeding and and three rising cycles as follows: 15 mins primary kneeding, 60 minutes primary rising, 24 minutes secondary kneeding, 20 minutes secondary rising, 4 seconds loaf shaping, then a final 60 minutes of rising, followed by 60 minutes of baking.

In checking, on my machine, I cannot change or adjust those times/cycles. I also cannot set the machine to just start baking at any point. It's all automated, and only will proceed to baking as part of one of the cycles. I do have the option for the machine just to do the kneeding and rising at the above-cited times and then not bake...to allow the dough to go into another oven.

Also, I cannot pause or stop the machine once it starts its cycle, unless I want to turn off the power and abort the whole process.

So from what I gather, those kinds of extended kneeding and rising times are TOO LONG for gluten free bread in a bread machine.

I did find one interesting idea mentioned that might apply in my case.... To start the machine, and let it run empty until it gets to the point in the cycle where you want it to start mixing (based on the remaining time). Now that I know the cycle times, that would seem easy enough to do...

What I did not find online, however, was any clear guidance about using a bread machine for gluten free bread.... How long should the single kneeding and single rising cycles each be...ideally????

[zorro1]

Your at the point I was, then I gave my machine away!

I hand mixed a loaf yesterday and it took 4 mins and did the following and yes its a dense bread but you do get use to it

. simply add 3 table spoons of oil and 420 mls of water and stir and allow to rise for 45 mins. Heat oven (I bought a little portable one 2000bht) to 180c and bake for 35 mins. you can add sesame seeds etc and I actually add a spoon of paprika powder to get it a nice colour. I been gluten free for 20 years and this is a great bread especially toasted. Best to slice and freeze asap and pop straight into toaster

[jfchandler]

Just to update...and thanks again Zorro for your added advice...last night I baked my first successful gluten-free loaf using my regular DAK break maker, and it came out OK.

I used the workaround approach I mentioned above. Since I can't adjust/change the automatic programming/timing on the machine's cycles, I let it run empty until about 10 minutes before the end of the last mixing cycle.... THEN I added the powdered and liquid ingredients, let it mix the last 7-8 minutes, and then rise for the final cycle and bake.

The one downside was (and now next time I'll know better), even though I put a bit of the liquid into the pan first, when I started pouring the powder in, the rotating mixer blade sent a bit of it flying into the air, and I had a bit of a flour cloud around me (because I can't stop/pause the mixing blade without canceling the cycle)... but not too much... Next time, I may just quickly mix wet and dry together in a bowl before pouring into the bread machine.

I used the Orgran self-rising flour as shown above, and Zorro's recipe...and only varied from it by adding a few tablespoons of grated/packaged parmesan cheese for flavoring. I wanted to keep the first try simple so if anything went wrong, I'd know it wasn't because of any changes/adds to the recipe. As it turned out, the loaf rose OK... Next time, though, I think I may add a bit more water, since the mix seemed a bit dry in the end, and I had some powder crust on the top of the loaf.

Now that I know the workaround approach to using the breadmaker can work, I'll set about trying different recipies and formulations....and give the Basco mix another try using the one-mix, one rise-only approach, and see if that works out better than my original "bricked" attempt with Basco.

Now, I just need to find some more Orgran mix at any of the Villa Markets again... haven't see any boxes lately (though they and others do have other non-gluten flours, to which I'd add my own non-yeast leavening agents).

Last time I was at Villa, one of the manager's there offered to special order something else I was looking for (which they regularly are out-of-stock of on their shelves) provided I'd purchase a case (10 or 12 packages). Might try that with the Orgran self-rising stuff... But thus far, no call from Villa on my other thing...

[Sparkles]

Hi, I'm a coeliac living in Bangkok. I've managed to find gluten-free biscuits, pasta and spaghetti in Villa Market, but as of yet am still unable to find gluten-free bread anywhere.

Has anyone ever seen it in Bangkok?

Thanks.

I'll bite what are the physical signs of being Coelic ? through the experience of posters here on TV

[zorro1]

Sh-tting your pants while trying to fart If your under 70

[Orangutan]

Sh-tting your pants while trying to fart If your under 70

In addition to unbearable intestinal pain, and complete immune system shut down if you ingest wheat.

-O

[jfchandler]

I should point out, the above medical condition isn't the only reason a person might want to look for wheat or yeast free products.

In my case, it's allergies and that stuff seems to worsen my sinus problems... so the doc says... avoid it...

I never would have guessed or known, if I hadn't gone for a full-blown set of allergy tests back in the USA and come away totally surprised by the results.

[zorro1]

Believe it or not a lot of people convert to a gluten free diet as a healthier way to live.

[jfchandler]

OK... things are definitely getting better here!!!!

Last night, relying on Zorro's helpful advice, I baked a very successful and very LIGHT/AIRY loaf of bread using my electric breadmaker and the Basco bread mix mentioned above. Very easy ingredients: the flour mix from the box, one egg and one cup of warm water all mixed together, along with any flavorings/herbs you choose to add.

The secret to success was not relying on the bread machine's long, double kneeding cycles intended for yeast/gluten breads..... But instead, just adding the gluten-free bread mix ingredients when the machine only has about 5 minutes left of kneeding, followed by about an hour of rising time, prior to baking. Also, I lightly pre-mixed the wet and dry ingredients in a bowl prior to pouring them into the already running bread machine, so it's rotating paddle wouldn't send the dry flour flying into the air, like occurred the first time I tried adding to the already running machine.

I was surprised because this loaf turned out much lighter and airier than the Orgran mix loaf I'd tried previously. The Basco package of ingredients, however, is smaller and thus makes a loaf that is smaller in size, compared to Orgran.

Another advantage of the Basco mix is that it seems to be readily available via Carrefour stores, whereas the Orgran mix is available, albeit rarely, from Villa markets in BKK...

The only downside, for people who may have allergies, is the Basco mix relies on some soy and dairy ingredients (but no yeast or gluten), whereas the Orgran mix has none of those ingredients (gluten, yeast, soy or dairy).

After not eating any bread for many months because of being on a yeast-free diet, and finding commercially baked yeast or gluten-free bread in BKK almost impossible, I had the luxury this week of enjoying freshly toasted Orgran bread and butter for breakfast all this week. It was a very pleasant change. Now Basco bread for the week ahead.

[zorro1]

Good to hear jf chandler. what did you do different to me? you just add an egg? and herbs did you use? Im going to buy a gluten free machine next trip to oz as Im a lazy bugger so prefer pour n forget. See you at weight watchers

[jfchandler]

Nothing much different.

The Basco mix box recipe (the mix I used most recently) calls for adding to the powder just 1) one cup of water and 2) one egg... That's all.... After that, blend and bake.

Re spices, I remembered your mention about adding paprika for color and flavor. So, I had at home some dry mixed seasoning mix (Mrs. Dash) and I added a few teaspoons of that while the dough was mixing. The resulting loaf came out with a very nice brownish color all through and through...

The prior loaf I tried with Orgran, which also came out fine, I added NOTHING extra too....because I wanted to stick to the base recipe for the first time. The result was a loaf that was entirely pale WHITE through and through. Tasted fine, but, I prefer to have a bit of color in my bread.

Right now, fyi, I'm going to stick with my own DAK breadmaker, and use the workaround approach mentioned above. Turns out, the machine has an automatic feature to beep 10 times when it is 5 minutes prior to the end of the final kneeding. That's meant as an alert time for yeast breads for people to add raisins and nuts and such, so they don't get pulverized and break up too much in the kneeding.

So, those 10 beeps with 5 minutes left of kneeding work as a perfect alert timer for me to add the gluten-free batter to the machine. I just let it run empty for the first 100 minutes. Wait to hear the 10 beeps, and then add the batter and walk away. Fresh baked bread two hours later (one hour of rising time, followed by one hour of baking and cooling time).

Just out of curiosity, because some folks on the web sites you referred me to were talking about Walmart stores in the U.S. as good places to shop for bread machines, I checked their web site yesterday. They had two Mr. Breadman models and a well reviewed Sunbeam 5891 -- all for under $100 U.S.

By comparison, one place in BKK that I know regularly carries breadmakers is the Verasu shops, one on Wireless Road near the U.S. Embassy and the other in Lad Prao... Last time I checked, they were stocking two different models, in the 4,800 to 5,900 baht range. The advantage there, I suppose, is that they would run on regular 220 AC... where as my U.S. 110 AC model needs a power converter to work here. But Verasu's prices seem a bit high, and I'm not sure if their two models are gluten-free friendly...

Verasu's Severin model

Verasu's Hitachi model

I'd love to know if someplace in BKK is stocking the Zojirushi brand breadmakers....which got pretty good reviews for being GF friendly and very programmable based on individual needs.

[jfchandler]

Just a bit more of an update here on gluten-free (and yeast-free) bread baking using a bread machine.

After success previously trying the Orgran and Basco bread mixes from the stores, I did some experimenting the past two weeks, using regular gluten-free flours found at local stores, and a recipe for yeast-free bread from the Internet, with varying results as follows:

1. Buckwheat flour: Villa Market has been stocking this lately, so I picked up a 500g package of Lowan brand, and its bread actually turned out pretty well. It seemed to resemble wheat flour more in its characteristics, and rose and formed better than the others.

2. Rice flour: Seems to be readily available in almost all of the large supermarkets. But I used this flour in the same recipe, and it turned out as a brick. Didn't rise at all, and had a very odd consistency when mixed with the liquids, not really like dough at all. (I had a 10 sec. power outage at home near the end of my machine's baking cycle, which prematurely cut it short. But I don't think that would have changed the rising at all, had it not happened.)

3. Corn Flour: Likewise, seems to be readily available in all the major supermarkets. Used the same recipe, and added a bit of the leftover buckwheat flour from the first buckwheat loaf. It also came out OK, pretty dense in composition, and a batter/dough consistency similar to the rice flour. I had to be careful not to add too much liquid, even after the mix didn't seem to be forming a good dough.

All of these tries involved the same recipe, which I wanted to try just as a baseline to see how the different flours responded.

Yeast free bread recipe

3 cups flour

(the original recipe called for wholegrain flour, presumably wheat.

so I was substituting different, gluten-free flours. That might mean needing to adjust other ingredients such as more baking powder. But again, I wanted to try just the base recipe first)

2 cups warm water

1 tablespoon baking powder

1 tablespoon olive oil

1/2 teaspoon sea salt

Mix liquid and dry ingredients separately, then combine and mix well. For the bread machine, that means adding the mixed batter about 4-5 minutes before the end of the final mixing cycle, then allowing it to rise about one hour before baking.

By comparison, the Orgran and the Basco loafs both turned out lighter and with a better texture overall than any of my initial freelance attempts. But I don't want to be dependent on sometimes finding/many times not finding the boxed mixes available in the stores. So hopefully I can find a local flours mix and recipe that works well enough as a reliable, always available substitute.

I have other similar recipes to the one I used for those three loafs, but I wanted to start with one recipe and see how the different flours responded to it. Its pretty easy to find no-yeast recipes, and likewise gluten-free recipes. But it seems near impossible to find a gluten and yeast-free made-from-scratch recipe.

PS - It's now almost the end of October, and I've yet to find/see another box of the Orgran gluten-free bread mix in either the Soi 11 or Soi 2 Villa Markets since I found the first (and only) box there a couple months ago.

PPS - Went shopping tonight at the "Gourmet" Market at Siam Paragon and was really disappointed. They had all the basic baking ingredients and flours (wheat gluten ones for breads and cake, and then rice and corn, but no buckwheat. But they had nothing in the way of useful gluten-free products, not even any brown rice pastas that I could find.

For a country that literally lives on rice, you'd think it's be possible to find some brown rice flour or brown rice pastas somewhere....

[jfchandler]

As promised above, I made a shopping trip today to the Carrefour store near On Nut BTS, and found an unexpected assortment of gluten-free baking riches....but still no GF pasta to be seen there. Turns out, the On Nut store had an even better GF selection/stocking than the Lad Phrao Carrefour store that I had visited lately...

All of their GF products at On Nut were pretty well stocked, not just one or two lone boxes. The baking section is toward the back of the store, just opposite the long rice display. See the photos and corresponding prices below.

[zorro1]

hmmm with exchange rate the basco would be around $9.5 oz dollars. Will stick with rice for now