kek Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I've heard that the upscale Manhattans Steak House in Pattaya will no longer be welcoming to gays. The owners have relieved the gay American manager of his duties and intend to change it to an atmosphere and price range more suitable for impecunious straights who have, allegedly, complained to the owners about the cost of dining and the prevalence of gays in the place. This is, we are told, "a business decision" but it smacks of homophobia to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davethailand Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Maybe there were complaints about diners being "over friendly" with each other or maybe the manager and his/ her partner? This IMO would apply to straight people and gay/ lesbian people as after all it is a restaurant, I wouldn't of thought for one minute that its a crusade against gays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I've heard that the upscale Manhattans Steak House in Pattaya will no longer be welcoming to gays. The owners have relieved the gay American manager of his duties and intend to change it to an atmosphere and price range more suitable for impecunious straights who have, allegedly, complained to the owners about the cost of dining and the prevalence of gays in the place. This is, we are told, "a business decision" but it smacks of homophobia to me. Surely there is only one reason why a restaurant would change its strategy and that is because it is not making money. There were obviously not enough gays in the place to make it pay, the new policy should mean that gays can now go there and get the same food at lower prices, because be sure they will not be turning away customers if they are not full, mind you it wont be conducive to throwing cream-puffs at one another with a more catholic mix of customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonniebkk Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I can surely understand why the place is not doing well...so-so food, vastly overpriced, and pretentious place for hi-so wannabes to dine. give me a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I always get concerned when I hear about a restaurant that looks at one's sexual orientation. I generally go there to eat, not cruise or <deleted> around! Pubs and bars are a bit more social and thus cater to a particular orientation--more or less, but a resaurant has to be in serious trouble with their food, prices and other factors to blame it on a particular group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patpattaya Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I always get concerned when I hear about a restaurant that looks at one's sexual orientation. I generally go there to eat, not cruise or <deleted> around! Pubs and bars are a bit more social and thus cater to a particular orientation--more or less, but a resaurant has to be in serious trouble with their food, prices and other factors to blame it on a particular group! Agreed but this "story" is just something that the op heard, maybe there are a few sour grapes because the manager that was let go happened to be gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Hmmm. Where can I go to throw cream puffs around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Hmmm.Where can I go to throw cream puffs around? A cake shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinom Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) In rememberance of Manhattans Steakhouse, Pattaya. A friend recently reminded me of the 4 different stages of conciousness. Stage 1 is the 'unconsious unconsiousness'. If you must, translate it into you 'don't know that you don't know'. This is very much the case in the recent development of the Manhattans Steakhouse, located on Tappraya Road, on the premises of the Nirvana place, Pattaya. By simply releasing the general manager one night at closing time, whose ideas and inspirations are very present at that beautiful, functional and successful restaurant and lounge on the rise, the 2 British owners and the 1 Thai girl behind this move proved, that they are united at stage 1 of 'unconsious unconsiousness'. They didn't know what was created, didn't take the effort to understand and don't really know what to do with it. That's what stage 1 is about. 'Try and error', the first step in learning as a child was taking away from them by a no doubt professional manager, but since they didn't know, they didn't know. Now a painful time for those 3 'unconsious unconsiousness' people has started and Manhattans Steakhouse, a real stylish addition we needed in our Pattaya scene, is history as we knew it. Edited February 10, 2008 by dinom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) It's just business. Whether this ends up as a smart move or a dumb move. I am sure there is a market for steak dinners in Thailand that cost more than in New York, but it never spoke to me, cream puff throwing or not. If I want to entertain a Thai gay companion, gai yang and som tum usually works better anyway. I do like steak. Offer the same quality meat at a more reasonable price, I don't care about the crowd or the sex of the waiters or the sexuality of the management. The so called homo market is most certainly not homogenous. I was already boycotting the place. I will be curious to know what changes they make. I don't think the idea of making it more resort wear friendly and wallet friendly is so bad, if (big if) they keep similar food quality. I seriously doubt they are going to be turning gay custom away, do you really think they will do that? Edited February 10, 2008 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonniebkk Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Why would anyone go to Manhattans when one can have a perfectly serviceable steak next door at Mata Hari (Australian) for about half the cost? I think MH is gay-central in Pattaya too I mean, how much gayer can you be than the owner/matradie...I don't care if he say he has a wife and kids Serious closet case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) Restaurants aren't democracies. If you like it, go there. If you don't, don't. There are so many choices and perhaps too many drama queens about. Methinks someone wants to make a big public scandal, crusade over a really trivial incident. Sorry, it just isn't important to anyone but that one person who was fired. Edited February 10, 2008 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinom Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Thai gay companion by my experience really like more than Som Tham and Gai Jan, as in dressing up real smart and going out for dinner to a fancy place and the feeling to be welcomed there! Now what does resort wear mean? Did I miss a fashion trend? I mean, simply dress up to the occasion, shorts and such for Som Tam next corner and nice clothes for a nice dinner. Your Thai gay companion will appreciate that, trust me on that. One more remark on democracy and restaurants. To be able to choose a restaurant, isn't that part of democracy already. And, just maybe not to be welcomed because of your sexual orientation, doesn't that go against your rights in a democracy? Please help me out here, I don't understand....Drama Queens, don't we love them all! I don't agree that when the management changes, it does only effect the fired person, but all who liked to be at that place because of this certain persons input, the so far happy customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepattaya Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Well, I know the ex-manager of Manhattens well, and have no doubts what so ever over his integrity. Manhattens never was a 'gay' restaurant per se, but like it or not it is (was?) stylish and attracted a certain class of people that included well heeled local and visiting gays. Equally I know it was used for corporate entertaining by several big companies in Rayong. To me, as a businessman, the business decisions such as the ones that were taken here I find totally illogical, but as a gay man there can be only one interpretation. It is blatent discrimination, imposed with no thought to the ongoing effect on the business. How else do you interprete a decision that says they do not want gay clients? If you are gay, and think it's fine to discriminate against your community, then go and spend your money there. Otherwise vote with your feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sman Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I am Steve Manning one of the owners of Manhattans Steakhouse and have been reading these posts and others, and now feel it time to have my say. We started building Manhattans early in 2007 after an idea to make another good restaurant in Pattaya. Tom was duly hired as the general manager. Dave Bowers, the other owner, Tom and I started designing and fitting out. We were both fully aware that Tom was gay before we hired him and had no problem with that. Neither of us are homophobic. Tom’s input with all he did was tremendous. We held him in the highest regard. Most people coming to Manhattans knew Tom as the face of Manhattans as I was in the kitchen and rarely got out into the restaurant until later in the evening. We worked very closely together and I felt, built up a friendly, as well as a professional relationship. Tom did a masterful job during his tenure at Manhattans. The reason he is no longer with us is not for me to explain here or anywhere else. I can however say in all honesty, that Tom being gay was certainly not the reason. Nor was it that a large number of gay clientele visited the restaurant. Nor was it that we had gay waiters. It was nothing to do with anything gay at all. We run our restaurant without issues of sexual orientation. We are not planning to downgrade the restaurant. I understand a lot of people will not return because Tom is not here. We will continue to welcome anyone, be they gay, straight or otherwise who wants to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Its just a restaurant. Geez! Thanks for the explanation, Mr. Owner. Good luck for continued success and good luck to the manager who left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinom Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Every business owner has to make his/her own decision, but people are wondering why a manager held with such 'high respect', who 'gave a tremendious input' with a 'friendly as well as professionally good relationship with the owners', was released of his duties in such an unfriendly and unprofessional manner. We might never know, since a business owner off course doesn't need to explain his/her decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navalator Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Only the owners and Mr. Vicaro know the real truth behind this foolishness. Who cares anyhow why he was fired as owners do not need a valid reason. He was the face of the place and charmed diners and created a loyal following. Since Mr. Vicaro is no longer there then I shall be no longer there. I just cannot believe the owner's statement that gay had nothing to do with the firing. If Mr. Vicaro was such a valued employee as stated, why, in the interest of developing revenue, was he sacked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) Why would you assume gay had anything to do with it? People are fired every day for lots of reasons. I am kind of offended as a gay person about this drama queen gay victimization complex about the soap opera politics of an overpriced restaurant. Really, aren't there more important issues to get excited about? Look we have all met minority people who are way too quick to claim racism when there is none. It dillutes the cases of real discrimination. I don't see any evidence this was a homophobic firing. Yes, the manager was gay, the owners are not, SO WHAT? Edited February 12, 2008 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navalator Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The SO WHAT is that I am not going to patronize a place where I enjoyed the aspect of a friendly front staff that made me feel welcome, IN SPITE OF MY SEXUALITY! Who cares what Mr. Vicaros sexual orientation is, the service is now not there. So I shall vote with my feet and go somewhere else, straight or gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 This thread appears to have run its course. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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