Aviation Department To Probe 12go Air Crash in Phuket

[george]

Aviation Department to probe Phuket air crash

BANGKOK: -- A Thai-based committee responsible for investigating the cause of last September's air crash in the southern Thai resort island of Phuket will now begin working after the US government's National Transport Safety Board (NTSB) said it was unable to find causes of the crash because so much of the ill-fated plane were badly burned, a senior Transport Ministry official said Saturday.

Aviation Department director-general Wuthichai Singhamanee said the NTSB recently notified his department saying that it was unable to determine the cause of the accident because parts of the plane were destroyed by fire.

The NTSB had earlier requested the department to help to determine the cause of the accident involving the One-Two-Go aircraft crash at Phuket International Airport which killed 89 of the 130 persons on board.

The accident occurred September 16 when the bidget carrier which left Bangkok for Phuket came down hard on the runway at Phuket airport amid heavy rain and strong crosswinds and skidded into a wooded embankment. The aircraft broke into two sections, caught fire almost immediately and was completely destroyed.

A sub-committee, headed by Mr. Wuthichai and which is assigned to investigate the cause of the tragedy will meet on February 14, he said, adding that the department is well equipped with personnel and equipment.

Mr. Wuthichai said he was confident that the cause of the accident would be known soon because the "black box" which contained vital information of the aircraft's operations prior to the accident is in the possession of the department.

No punishment will be imposed on any agency or personnel after completion of the investigation because the accident was beyond control, he added.

--TNA 2008-02-09

[Gravelrash]

So they don't know the cause of the accident. However "No punishment will be imposed on any agency or personnel after completion of the investigation because the accident was beyond control, he added."

What can one really say.

[khunandy]

So, even though the NTSB couldn't work it out the Thais can because they have the Black Box. Hmmm one can only hope the NTSB was able to analyse the Black Box as well.

Although as they said:

No punishment will be imposed on any agency or personnel after completion of the investigation because the accident was beyond control

I can't believe a statement like that was made during an inconclusive investigation. The mind boggles.

[khunandy]

I dont know what that code business is above

[sbk]

I dont know what that code business is above

I fixed the quotes for you but you must have hit the code button next to the quote button by accident.

I am afraid I don't really understand this article. How can the NTSB determine the cause of the crash if they don't have access to the black box in the first place? Or is K Wutichai saying that the NTSB had the black box but couldn't determine the cause even after analyzing the black box???

[Florin]

Could you please amend the title, I think some people might imagine it's a crash involving Phuket Air? I know I did...

[A_Traveller]

AFAIK the Black Boxes, {FDR & CDR} were sent to the NTSB for analysis. Problems occur when it is not possible to reconcile the data, which should include pilot inputs with the wreckage. Since the plane was left, I seem to recall, by the side of the runway, it is probable that it would be difficult to ascertain causal factors, e.g. impact, fire, subsequent activity, from possible in-flight issues. In crashes where it is possible, wreckage not at the bottom of the sea for example, NTSB will endeavour to reconstruct the airplane looking for tell tales which can indicate and correlate with the recorded pilot inputs to controls. A simple example which we all saw here was the state of the undercarriage which was subject to convenient debate by the authorities here.

Regards

PS Good point raised by Florin, I guessed we were talking about the previous event, not a new one, but others might not realise.

Edited February 9, 2008 by A_Traveller

[Johpa]

Aviation Department to probe Phuket air crash

Aviation Department director-general Wuthichai Singhamanee said the NTSB recently notified his department saying that it was unable to determine the cause of the accident because parts of the plane were destroyed by fire.

This is probably just a face-saving announcement to avoid mentioning pilot error. That is a subjective determination that would be left to the Thai investigative team to make.

[Briggsy]

If they have the "black box" why haven't they analyzed it after 5 months?

[Tony Clifton]

Very recently there was a picture of a plane landing in Phuket, Nation or BKK post, and the wreckage was still sitting where it was dumped, at the end of the runway, uncovered, exposed to weather and looters. I'm sure that helped a lot with making the investigation inconclusive.

[cloudhopper]

The cause of this accident is quite clear IMO - the decision by the pilot in command to continue the approach into known hazardous weather conditions. For reasons already mentioned, this will probably never be publicly stated.

The factors contributing to the pilot error - company pilot selection, training and scheduling policies, as well as the general inability of copilots everywhere (but espcially in Asian cultures) to question the judgement of the aircraft commander, will continue to pervade the budget airlines in the region. IMO...

[astral]

If they have the "black box" why haven't they analyzed it after 5 months?

My thought too.

I was under the impression that an initial analysis would be available within days of the crash........

[A_Traveller]

See post 7. From my post in original thread 2007-09-28

... As an aside here, the data itself is not public domain, the US analysts treat it as confidential, and any public release is driven either by the laws of the country in which the accident occurs, or by the policies of the parties.

Regards

Edited February 10, 2008 by A_Traveller

[lazeeboy]

Aviation Department to probe Phuket air crash

BANGKOK: -- A Thai-based committee responsible for investigating the cause of last September's air crash in the southern Thai resort island of Phuket will now begin working after the US government's National Transport Safety Board (NTSB) said it was unable to find causes of the crash because so much of the ill-fated plane were badly burned, a senior Transport Ministry official said Saturday.

Aviation Department director-general Wuthichai Singhamanee said the NTSB recently notified his department saying that it was unable to determine the cause of the accident because parts of the plane were destroyed by fire.

The NTSB had earlier requested the department to help to determine the cause of the accident involving the One-Two-Go aircraft crash at Phuket International Airport which killed 89 of the 130 persons on board.

The accident occurred September 16 when the bidget carrier which left Bangkok for Phuket came down hard on the runway at Phuket airport amid heavy rain and strong crosswinds and skidded into a wooded embankment. The aircraft broke into two sections, caught fire almost immediately and was completely destroyed.

A sub-committee, headed by Mr. Wuthichai and which is assigned to investigate the cause of the tragedy will meet on February 14, he said, adding that the department is well equipped with personnel and equipment.

Mr. Wuthichai said he was confident that the cause of the accident would be known soon because the "black box" which contained vital information of the aircraft's operations prior to the accident is in the possession of the department.

No punishment will be imposed on any agency or personnel after completion of the investigation because the accident was beyond control, he added.

--TNA 2008-02-09

this they are only doing now ,better late than never i suppose

[Ricardo]

Aviation Department to probe Phuket air crash

BANGKOK: -- A Thai-based committee responsible for investigating the cause of last September's air crash in the southern Thai resort island of Phuket will now begin working after the US government's National Transport Safety Board (NTSB) said it was unable to find causes of the crash because so much of the ill-fated plane were badly burned, a senior Transport Ministry official said Saturday.

....

No punishment will be imposed on any agency or personnel after completion of the investigation because the accident was beyond control, he added.

--TNA 2008-02-09

I love the smell of white-wash in the morning !

Question for the Aviation department ... would it have helped, if the fire-engines had reached the crash-site inside the international-standard of 90 seconds, rather than over 5 minutes ?

And Another ... Would it have helped, if all & not just half the wind-shear detection-equipment at Phuket Airport, had been in working-order ?

[Phuket Dragon]

The wreakage is now dumped with a trader near the Heroines monument in Phuket, the plane seats are for sale.....

[BigSnake]

Bottom line they just don't want to blame anyone YET!! Most likely pilot error or mis info from control tower.

[wanderer9020]

I THOUGHT it was WIND SHEAR , that the ill fated pilot had no time to counteract by aborting landing.ANyway, I saw 999 baht (taxes inclusive), for all One to Go flights this coming Songkran holidays on all domestic destinations agains 1800 or 2300thb with Nok Air and Air Asia respectively, whats your take guys about it.I asked my wife , and said to me, if its time for us , its time for us...I said, ah okei, but it seems that tragic event still vivid in my mind..

Edited February 10, 2008 by wanderer9020

[Supaporn]

The cause of this accident is quite clear IMO - the decision by the pilot in command to continue the approach into known hazardous weather conditions. For reasons already mentioned, this will probably never be publicly stated.

The factors contributing to the pilot error - company pilot selection, training and scheduling policies, as well as the general inability of copilots everywhere (but espcially in Asian cultures) to question the judgement of the aircraft commander, will continue to pervade the budget airlines in the region. IMO...

Probably the most concise summary of the most probable casue of this tragic accident. Seems to me I remember in the expose' that Australian TV did recently showed the claimed 'Black Box' sitting in an old suitcase in a DCA office.

One word...... WHITEWASH (or is that two?)

Whatever the word.... it is a travesty the way the Thai DCA is handling this. I suppose the 'fees' were paid under a table a loooong time ago. It will soon be forgotten and you all can go one paying your 999 Baht as you roll the dice whether you live or die.

edit: still learnig to spell

Edited February 10, 2008 by Supaporn

[wanderer9020]

. It will soon be forgotten and you all can go one paying your 999 Baht as you roll the dice whether you live or die.

Well, life is definitely a roll of dice, wasnt it? TG infact has more fatal accident than this airline and so with SQ or Silk Air or other full pledged airline!

[Supaporn]

Well, life is definitely a roll of dice, wasnt it? TG infact has more fatal accident than this airline and so with SQ or Silk Air or other full pledged airline!

Yes, life is indeed a roll of the dice - regardless. You may think as you wish... I am sure K. Udom just loves you and your support. As for me, I will lessen my chances and not play with his dice. Bet I live longer even if I fly SQ... and even *shudder* TG as opposed to 1-2-Go

I would be curious to see your stats on fatalities per flight hour and years of service....have any?

[wanderer9020]

Well, life is definitely a roll of dice, wasnt it? TG infact has more fatal accident than this airline and so with SQ or Silk Air or other full pledged airline!

Yes, life is indeed a roll of the dice - regardless. You may think as you wish... I am sure K. Udom just loves you and your support. As for me, I will lessen my chances and not play with his dice. Bet I live longer even if I fly SQ... and even *shudder* TG as opposed to 1-2-Go

I would be curious to see your stats on fatalities per flight hour and years of service....have any?

I dont and never said that I support 1 2 Go either, waht Im trying to say is the unbiased opinions with regards to air accidents just because theyre budgets airlines and cheap and they dont give you hot towel doesnt mean that they will be likely to crash compared to your newly painted TG or SQ.When SQ crashed in Taiwan, when SIlk Air crashed in Indonesia, theres no uproar like these, its because they charged expensive fares and they served hot food .Im not debating , nor persuading you to fly 1 2 Go.

Discussion is knowlege, argument is stupidity.

[Supaporn]

I dont and never said that I support 1 2 Go either, waht Im trying to say is the unbiased opinions with regards to air accidents just because theyre budgets airlines and cheap and they dont give you hot towel doesnt mean that they will be likely to crash compared to your newly painted TG or SQ.When SQ crashed in Taiwan, when SIlk Air crashed in Indonesia, theres no uproar like these, its because they charged expensive fares and they served hot food .Im not debating , nor persuading you to fly 1 2 Go.

I think maybe there was not the 'uproar' over SQ in Taipei because the cause of the accident was readily known and the reputation of the airline had previously been known to be a professional operator. Therefore - it was a one off tragedy caused by a couple of careless pilots - IMHO. The 1-2-Go accident, however, was followed by a HUGE stream of revelations of mismanagement and gross carelessnesness, blatant disregard for the rule of law and common sense, and not to mention an over abundance of whitewash. Hence, the outcry over such an operator.

Discussion is knowlege, argument is stupidity.

Now, my friend, THAT is the most profound and reasonable comment I have seen on TV in loooong time. Good on you!

Hope I am just discussing because I hate an arguement as it brings everyone down to the level of swine - and we see a lot of that in TV for sure. Have a good one!

edit: STILL learning to spell

Edited February 11, 2008 by Supaporn

[TAWP]

"Excuse me, I'm here for an argument."

[simon43]

Most of the remains of the plane are still sitting on the field opposite the passenger terminal - where they were dumped a few months ago. It's only a few hundred metres from where I'm sitting right now.

As to the plane seats being for sale near Heroines Monument - since you can walk right up to to the wreckage and collect your own souveigners - then it's no surprise that bits are up for sale....

Simon

[Tony Clifton]

Most of the remains of the plane are still sitting on the field opposite the passenger terminal - where they were dumped a few months ago. It's only a few hundred metres from where I'm sitting right now.

As to the plane seats being for sale near Heroines Monument - since you can walk right up to to the wreckage and collect your own souveigners - then it's no surprise that bits are up for sale....

Simon

Unforgettable Thailand, where you can later buy the plane seat you nearly died on at a local market near you.

What a circus.

I'm outa here...

[Supaporn]

I spoke with the NTSB regarding the DCA's statement. They say it is not "reflective" of the investigation they're conducting. They also emphasised that it is not their role to determine the cause of the crash. They're simply testing the airplane components. When they finish, they will present a report to the DCA - not to the public.

Any of us could have been on that airplane. Orient Thai's (One-Two-Go's owner) own pilots are talking about remarkably unsafe actions - including flying with known engine failure, and bribery.

We're encouraging the Thai's to properly investigate the crash and to hold the owner's accountable. see: www.InvestigateUdom.com

Nice to see someone keeping the campaign alive. The sad part is that K. Udom and the Thai DCA will probably never lift a finger to resolve the incident or bring anyone to justice - ultimately they are all in it together.

But..... keep the signatures campaign!

[astral]

Did you see that hairy landing attempt by a Lufthansa jet in Hamburg yesterday...........

It just shows what can happen in bad weather conditions.

[Supaporn]

Did you see that hairy landing attempt by a Lufthansa jet in Hamburg yesterday...........

It just shows what can happen in bad weather conditions.

No, what happened? Can you show us?

[Polsevogn]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

BTW, the consensus on the airline forums seems to be that there's nothing wrong attempting to land in crosswind like this, that's quite standard really, though at the last moment there was a big gust of wind that threw the plane off-balance, then the pilot was lucky/skillful to recover from that and go around. Some also say he should have gone around earlier than he did, but it's tough to call for sure. The plane landed safely on a different runway minutes later. That runway was closed for the day after that.

Plane did actually hit the ground with the left wing and damanged the left winglet / wingcover. No major structural damage though.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Polsevogn