Overseas & Oversexed

[Smithson]

"It does not matter what you look like or how old or fat or bald you are ... in Thailand, farengs are treated like a film star," says Mr. Richards.

This isn't true, I'm not that old or fat, although I'm quite bald but nobody treats me like a film star.

Otherwise the story seemed OK, sensational but accurate enough. I'm surprised ppl are so thin skinned, living in LOS we all not what others are thinking when they see/hear about a farang male of any age with a youngish Thai woman. I gave up worrying what ppl think about me long ago.

[HomeisThai]

kat

It's pretty sad and pathetic when the social, economic and political equality of women and human rights is seen as a form of nazism to you.

Heather Mills arrived at court with her make-up artist and personal trainer yesterday (11.02.08).

The former model, who is attending a private five-day hearing at London's High Court to finalise her divorce from Sir Paul McCartney, was also accompanied by her sister, bodyguard, chauffeur, a female friend and a solicitor.

She is reportedly demanding a £50 million cash pay out, along with at least two homes, two nannies, medical cover, a personal trainer, household staff and a secretary.

Heather's former publicist Phil Hall insists Heather is not interested in money.

He said: "Money is not Heather's motivation. She simply feels there was an injustice here, that her life was wrecked by her marriage to Paul. I think she can control her emotions and she will be cool, calm and focused in court."

with such shining examples of western womanhood becoming more and more common , can you blame men for heading for the hills for some light relief.

But your point is ruined by the fact that a large majority of men who come to Thailand looking for a young thai women get screwed over financially and emotionally just like Heather is doing to paul.

Your point is invalid as Thailand is now well known for a large majority of thai women(and men) going with westerners just for their cash and even killing them to get at it.

[fletchsmile]

But your point is ruined by the fact that a large majority of men who come to Thailand looking for a young thai women get screwed over financially and emotionally just like Heather is doing to paul.

Your point is invalid as Thailand is now well known for a large majority of thai women(and men) going with westerners just for their cash and even killing them to get at it.

I'd be very interested to know what your basis is for "large majorities" in both of these sweeping statements.

Let me guess: a couple of weeks reading Thai Visa and a few weeks holidays over the years? Something your "enlightened friends" have told you? Something you saw down Khao San road when you put your back pack down maybe? A trip to an exotic island where you saw an older guy with a younger woman on the beach? Or did you hear it first hand from someone with a chip on their shoulder

Edited February 13, 2008 by fletchsmile

[HomeisThai]

But your point is ruined by the fact that a large majority of men who come to Thailand looking for a young thai women get screwed over financially and emotionally just like Heather is doing to paul.

Your point is invalid as Thailand is now well known for a large majority of thai women(and men) going with westerners just for their cash and even killing them to get at it.

I'd be very interested to know what your basis is for "large majorities" in both of these sweeping statements.

Let me guess: a couple of weeks reading Thai Visa and a few weeks holidays over the years? Something your "enlightened friends" have told you? Something you saw down Khao San road when you put your back pack down maybe? A trip to an exotic island where you saw an older guy with a younger woman on the beach? Or did you hear it first hand from someone with a chip on their shoulder

Sorry, apologises I should have said 'a large majority of thai women(and men)who are talked about/in media/live in certain westernised areas etc'

I do apologise for this as obviously saying a large majority of Thailand is ridiculous.

[kat]

Many many men in Thailand are here because they didn't have any chance of 'getting' a girl of the minority(nice ones) because of their age/financial situation/bad looks/obesity etc. for me my alcoholism didn't go down too well. .

Right, so they are below "market" par in their own countries and move here for the benefits of a stronger currency exchange rate - in more ways than one.

Actually, there is no double standard in the article, because it is citing a well-documented fact: the overwhelming majority of male expats/sexpats (in this case those who work for multinationals) are well past their prime and involved in local relationships with very large age gaps of twenty years or more. Your comment, on the other hand, assumes that all Western women are feminists, which is not the case. It is also, obviously, not the case that all feminists are ugly, because I'm sure you have not polled every single woman on earth on whether or not she is a feminist. But, to make it easy for you, I should remind you that the person considered to be the icon of feminism, Gloria Steinem, was a playboy bunny in her youth and looks better in her 70s than most average, Western middle-age men that I have seen walking down the street in LOS.

Well, I'm sure many Thai women would agree that a large proportion of Western men sure smell and behave like animals.

Yeah, I wondered when a discussion of the obvious facts of male foreign postings in Thailand were going to revert to the usual baying of feminazi domination. It's pretty sad and pathetic when the social, economic and political equality of women and human rights is seen as a form of nazism to you. You must have been pretty fragile to start. Perhaps that's why so many of you view the sheer absence of it which drives such a large swath of Thai women into long-term and short-term prostitution to be your personal paradise. hel_l on earth for women though, although in LOS, they only say that behind your backs or in front of your faces in Thai.

Long live the monetary exchange rates! Well, you'd better hope.

*added: By the way, you also diverged from the facts. Gloria Steinem said that marriage was demeaning, which in her time it was. You'd think it would be a good thing since she was not dependent on the economic security or large divorce settlements that so many male expats bemoan here. I guess that's their simple-minded hypocrisy rearing its peach fuzz head again; oh, well damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sure gives you ample opportunity to sling pejoratives though, doesn't it?

btw, Gloria Steinem also got married later in life.

With an attitude like that, your comments about expat men in Thailand will become self-fulfilling. The guys you are meeting/met in Thailand are probably more a reflection of your own attitudes than anything.

A lot of sweeping generalisations about the expat guys you (and no doubt like minded friends) have met (or read about) in Thailand. No point in replying to any of the individual points really. You are probably, if anything, proving the very points about some western women, that you are trying to disagree with.

This has nothing to do with my attitude, or whether or not Western men like me, or if I like them (completely irrelevant actually, both to the argument and my time in Thailand ).

The point is that there are distinct swaths of tourists and expats that fit a profile according to region and demographics (e.g. Pai attracts one kind of tourist or long term expat, and Bangkok and Pattaya another). This doesn't mean that there are no exceptions, but we are talking about the overwhelming majority, which is easily substantiated by numbers on tourism and expats living in the Kingdom (as well as astonishing development patterns of entire villages in Issan).

They are overwhelmingly male, and overwhelmingly middle age or older. Over the years, other segments of the tourist population have also grown, but the male sexpat/expat segment has continued to grow as well, which makes sense because the tourist sex market in Thailand has also grown and morphed into a brisk marriage and dating market. The results are so strong, that this now has transnational qualities as the markets have been exported with significant effect in some of the countries of origin of Western male sexpats. This has been substantiated, researched, and reported by academics, journalistic, local, and empirical accounts far and wide, so, if you live in the Kingdom and have a hard time accepting this blatant fact, I can see why you prefer to focus on my attitude, Western women, and my perceived friends. And just as an aside, I did have male friends in LOS who fit the profile, but they were mostly intelligent and decent and did not need to lie or blame others for their choices.

*edit: typos

Therefore, there is nothing sensationalist about this article or journalist. She is simply reporting on one aspect of a very distinct and far-reaching pattern in LOS concerning foreign men who fit a certain profile, which are significant in LOS.

Edited February 13, 2008 by kat

[HomeisThai]

Kat

You put that brilliantly, the point I was trying to make was about the Thai women(and men)who go with these expats etc, so I suppose I stick to what I say about the majority of those people going with European men for other reasons then love, mainly money.. ..just like Heather Mills. So infact I do believe alot of these expats are running into the dragon rather then away from

[meom]

Kat

You put that brilliantly, the point I was trying to make was about the Thai women(and men)who go with these expats etc, so I suppose I stick to what I say about the majority of those people going with European men for other reasons then love, mainly money.. ..just like Heather Mills. So infact I do believe alot of these expats are running into the dragon rather then away from

I think Heather Mills actually went for love first and later on went for the money unlike a lot of Thai who go for money first and later on realize they feel love as well.

[Pepe']

Heather Mills is living proof that marriage is State-sanctioned prostitution!

------------------------

You're on a roll General!!!

PS My Thai wife/ later Asian girlfriends ALWAYS say how good I smell, "never stinky."

My guess is because my body isn't stuffed with partially putrified rotting carcases.

Just a wild guess...

[kat]

Kat

You put that brilliantly, the point I was trying to make was about the Thai women(and men)who go with these expats etc, so I suppose I stick to what I say about the majority of those people going with European men for other reasons then love, mainly money.. ..just like Heather Mills. So infact I do believe alot of these expats are running into the dragon rather then away from

No worries.

Heather Mills is living proof that marriage is State-sanctioned prostitution!

------------------------

You're on a roll General!!!

PS My Thai wife/ later Asian girlfriends ALWAYS say how good I smell, "never stinky."

My guess is because my body isn't stuffed with partially putrified rotting carcases.

Just a wild guess...

Ha ha ha - I think the real issue for Westerners and smell though is dairy and alcohol .... and bathing frequently in a tropical climate.

[GuestHouse]

I suspect what gets up people's nose is the overwhelming accuracy of the article - It fits more than a small number of sexpat men in Thailand so naturally they don't like being rumbled.

Attacks on the journalist and attacks on western women in general are evidence of the lack of a convincing counter argument.

If the article didn't hit home it would not attract so much comment.

[qwertz]

I never read the article, assuming it's just the same old same old - most hacks need to ruffle feathers to get a reaction purely because they ran out of

original thought long ago.

They can't turn their attention to human rights issues in several major economies because their editors would block it on the grounds it might upset the

advertisers.

[howtoescape]

To the women on here who have as good as branded all men in LOS as past it, fat, drunk, bald, promiscious and unable to get anything back home, do you not think Thai women may like us as we are somewhat of a novelty to them and actually we arent all bad.

[Boo]

what women have branded that? I see 2 women actively commenting on this topic & the rest were men.

If the article had been written by a man (as others of a smiliar vein have been) then no one would have started on the stupid feminazi direction. FYI, women doesn't have to be a feminazi (whatever that means) to see what is visible to most on the streets if Thailand.

In fact, a lot of men agree that there is some truth in the article too & I have yet to see anyone claim it applies to all but all focus seems now to be directed at the women posting on the thread rather than a discussion of the article itself. Boringly predictable .

[isabelle17]

Most of the majority of western expats in Thailand I have seen or met are male. Now this does not mean that this figure is true because this is based on what I have seen and experienced only. I dont know if that really makes any difference..but if you compare male expats to female expats....why is there that difference? Why are there more western males living/staying in Thailand than western females? I can think of a variety of reasons for this, but it'd be nice to hear other peoples opinions.

I am not taking anyones side really (ok well I am trying not to) but if you think about that, why do you think that is? I have been trying to figure out an answer to this question for quite some time and maybe some of you have a good idea as to why this is.

[tamsin]

Then there are the guys who are old, fat and bald, without any prospects of attracting the attention of a smart, young, attractive Western woman, but discover that they can be attractive because of their affluence or visa status to a whole range of [Asian] women, and strike up a relationship with one of them, not realizing that in the eyes of their friends and other Asians, they look at best [like] fools and at worst predators," he adds.

So true (not of all obviously but alot)

To me, they look like fellows who are too clever to be lonely and desperate when they don't really have to be.

How come old, fat and bald rich guys in the West are not thought of as "fools and at worst predators" when they take advantage of their financial status to strike up a relationship with smart, young, attractive Western woman? How come the Western women are not thought of as whores?

Can you say hypocrites?

Fully agree but we forget one key factor about the relationship between 2 people with a big age gap:POWER image

In my forties in europ I was already fat and (relatively ) rich.Not yet bald .Remember relationship with girls 15 to 20 years younger than me.Were from very good family with very good income , really beautifull and clever

What was the secret?I was the boss of subsidiary of a well known software cy.They searched the POWER image.(and some of my friends in the same kind of position had the same experiences).

An other factor should be that certain girls search the image of their father in a relationship (or the contrary of this image depending how they see their father)

Now i am living in LOS,old, fat , bald and rich (at least for poor people ) and...same same

GF has 35 years less than me

The power image here is much more a money power image for sure but the father comparison is still valid

So much more complex that the feminazi article...isn't it????

The Thai girls aren't interested in your perceived status as some highflyer, they don't even understand what that is! All they see is that you are white and therefore probably have money.

By the by, I was told by my female Thai language tutor that many of her farang male students tell her that they wouldn't be able to get a girl half their age in their home countries. She asked me why that was

[fletchsmile]

This has nothing to do with my attitude, or whether or not Western men like me, or if I like them (completely irrelevant actually, both to the argument and my time in Thailand ).

The point is that there are distinct swaths of tourists and expats that fit a profile according to region and demographics (e.g. Pai attracts one kind of tourist or long term expat, and Bangkok and Pattaya another). This doesn't mean that there are no exceptions, but we are talking about the overwhelming majority, which is easily substantiated by numbers on tourism and expats living in the Kingdom (as well as astonishing development patterns of entire villages in Issan).

They are overwhelmingly male, and overwhelmingly middle age or older. Over the years, other segments of the tourist population have also grown, but the male sexpat/expat segment has continued to grow as well, which makes sense because the tourist sex market in Thailand has also grown and morphed into a brisk marriage and dating market. The results are so strong, that this now has transnational qualities as the markets have been exported with significant effect in some of the countries of origin of Western male sexpats. This has been substantiated, researched, and reported by academics, journalistic, local, and empirical accounts far and wide, so, if you live in the Kingdom and have a hard time accepting this blatant fact, I can see why you prefer to focus on my attitude, Western women, and my perceived friends. And just as an aside, I did have male friends in LOS who fit the profile, but they were mostly intelligent and decent and did not need to lie or blame others for their choices.

*edit: typos

Therefore, there is nothing sensationalist about this article or journalist. She is simply reporting on one aspect of a very distinct and far-reaching pattern in LOS concerning foreign men who fit a certain profile, which are significant in LOS.

On the contrary the foreign guys you meet in Thailand have everything to do with your attitide. That is the point I was making that you didn't get.

Normal foreign guys have no desire to listen to your rants and stereotyping, so most of the time will just ignore you, and people like you, regardless of gender or nationality. Why would any decent self respecting guy want to associate with anyone that comes out with comments like:

"..the overwhelming majority of male expats/sexpats (in this case those who work for multinationals) are well past their prime and involved in local relationships with very large age gaps of twenty years or more..."

"Well, I'm sure many Thai women would agree that a large proportion of Western men sure smell and behave like animals. "

"...Perhaps that's why so many of you view the sheer absence of it which drives such a large swath of Thai women into long-term and short-term prostitution to be your personal paradise. hel_l on earth for women though, although in LOS, they only say that behind your backs or in front of your faces in Thai."

These 3 comments (to select a few) are utter rubbish. Simply rude, bigotted and misogynist.

The article has some valid points to make. Rudeness bigotry and misogynism don't.

As for your comments on expats, I would doubt you've spent much time working in Thailand (or Asia) for MNCs if those are your observations. The article was about expats, marital relationships, infidelity and postings abroad, particularly Asia and Hong Kong. Your conclusions seem to be drawn on tourist numbers and the sex tourism industry in Thailand. You seem unable to differentiate. The way you have twisted the article to your own particular topic probably says more about yourself.

You usually find what you look for...

Edited February 14, 2008 by fletchsmile

[Ulysses G.]

..but if you compare male expats to female expats....why is there that difference? Why are there more western males living/staying in Thailand than western females?

In general, Asian women are considered to be slim, exotic and beautiful.

Asian men are considered too small and not very masculine.

Asian women are considered to be an ideal, but the men are usually not considered to be very attractive by the typical Westerner.

[kat]

Right, but what you don't get, is that these circumstances exist independent of any one attitude. It has been documented far and wide, and corroborated by many people way beyond me. This phenomenon, and my response to it is not about one person. My "rant" is simply a statement of verifiable facts and patterns that have already been documented and are widely available if you were interested. You are obviously not. "Normal" is a relative term. There are many "normal" Western men who agree with me and the article. They are generally those who are not in denial, and not involved in long term and short term sex market.

The article talks about Asia and Thailand. This board deals with Thailand. The article in this case deals with MNCs and the challenges they face in posting expat families and males in Asia. The issues are so well known that it is also a similar phenomenon for a range of other professional postings for NGOs and other international positions. My comments are based on the demographics of different segments of longterm sexpats. The article makes it clear that there is no difference in participation and effects for people who work at MNCs and the general pattern of infidelity and the dating/sex market for anyone else.

What a cute and touching comment on the misogyny. The problem with your credibility is that you guys never seem to speak up in the face of real misogynist comments. Like so many with nothing substantial or factual, you prefer to focus on me, rather than countering anything I say.

Decent and self-respecting are relative terms.

[Ulysses G.]

Normal foreign guys have no desire to listen to your rants and stereotyping, so most of the time will just ignore you, and people like you, regardless of gender or nationality.

[isabelle17]

..but if you compare male expats to female expats....why is there that difference? Why are there more western males living/staying in Thailand than western females?

In general, Asian women are considered to be slim, exotic and beautiful.

Asian men are considered too small and not very masculine.

Asian women are considered to be an ideal, but the men are usually not considered to be very attractive by the typical Westerner.

Ok...

but I disagree with some of that. I find many thai men just as good looking than western men...and I know many women out there who agree with me on that. Anyways, I dont think it is JUST that though. There must be some other reasons. So you are saying that men go to Thailand simply for the women, is that it? If it was only for that...well, sounds kind of sad really. I wouldnt go live in another country JUST for the "good looking exotic men." But then again, I am a woman who actually cares not just about what someone looks like. Wait until they (or you) get old...is all I can say!

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, most men are here for the women. Anyone who denies that is living in dreamland.

As far as Thai men's attractiveness goes, I am speaking of what most Westerners think. I have lived here a long time, and actually I don't agree.

[Boo]

But then your a straight blokeso you wouldn't know about the atrractiveness of thai men

[kat]

^ *(Ulysses) Well, you are certainly not speaking for women, I hope.

There are some Thai male/Western female relationships, just not as many as the reverse because of the sheer abundance and dominance of the Thai female dating/sex market, both here in LOS, online, and increasingly abroad. The gender roles and expectations are also generally much harder for Western women to accept than Western men. We are also much less inclined to accept looks as the primary benefit of a relationships.

*Therefore, the numbers of Western women/Thai men, are probably more reflective of a realistic number that would account for the difficulty of hooking up in the midst of complex cultural differences.

Edited February 14, 2008 by kat

[LinkPopularity]

I love the term feminazi; feminism has gone to far and did more wrong then good ... it's a sad fact and I'm deeply disappointed that Bendix defend those b!itches

I'm not a little man, I don't fear them; I say it out loud and not only on this forum, but also as much as I can in their faces; they're wrong and they have to stop insulting my mother and take a step back; they're causing a total unbalance in the Western world, just as the Nazi's did during WOII, that's why the term feminazi is spot on!

they're are a treat to society and should be stopped by all means !

[kat]

Yes, most men are here for the women. Anyone who denies that is living in dreamland.

As far as Thai men's attractiveness goes, I am speaking of what most Westerners think. I have lived here a long time, and actually I don't agree.

Any one who also thinks that the bulk of these relationships would be "naturally occurring" outside one of the largest /dating/marriage-for-sale markets in the world is also dreaming.

[Boo]

but this topic isn't about feminazis but if you feel so strongly about it suggest you go out there in the west & do something about it instead of only complaining about it here on thaivisa

Lets all go back to the article

[kat]

I love the term feminazi; feminism has gone to far and did more wrong then good ... it's a sad fact and I'm deeply disappointed that Bendix defend those b!itches

I'm not a little man, I don't fear them; I say it out loud and not only on this forum, but also as much as I can in their faces; they're wrong and they have to stop insulting my mother and take a step back; they're causing a total unbalance in the Western world, just as the Nazi's did during WOII, that's why the term feminazi is spot on!

they're are a treat to society and should be stopped by all means !

Yes, well I suppose that the culling and murder-by-marriage that frequently occurs in LOS is another kind of balance.

[Ulysses G.]

But then your a straight bloke so you wouldn't know about the atrractiveness of thai men

You are correct, but if I wasn't clear about it, I am saying that I don't agree with what the majority of Westerners think, I DO think Thai men are as attractive as Westerners.

As far as me speaking for women goes, I do think that it is very difficult for most Western women to have a lover who is shorter than they are. I think this is as silly as women think we men are for being obsessed with large breasts, but, right or wrong, this is how many, many people feel.

[Smithson]

Yes, most men are here for the women. Anyone who denies that is living in dreamland.

As far as Thai men's attractiveness goes, I am speaking of what most Westerners think. I have lived here a long time, and actually I don't agree.

Any one who also thinks that the bulk of these relationships would be "naturally occurring" outside one of the largest /dating/marriage-for-sale markets in the world is also dreaming.

That's true. Also, anyone who thinks that it's all above 'love' in the west is also dreaming. People get together for a variety of reasons, economic, status, security etc. Here the the exchange rate is different.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, most men are here for the women. Anyone who denies that is living in dreamland.

As far as Thai men's attractiveness goes, I am speaking of what most Westerners think. I have lived here a long time, and actually I don't agree.

Any one who also thinks that the bulk of these relationships would be "naturally occurring" outside one of the largest /dating/marriage-for-sale markets in the world is also dreaming.

I'm not really sure why this matters, but I'll take your word for it.