Pattaya Clears Country's Tallest Condo

[wpcoe]

Regarding the water supply for the building, weren't they supposed to be using desalinated sea water? Can't remember where I read that, but I'm pretty sure I read that...

[prospero]

<br />According to the Bangkok Post, Pattaya clears country's tallest condo. After a long wait for the approval of its environmental impact assessment (EIA), construction is due to start on March 30 of Thailand tallest residential building, the Ocean 1 Tower on Jomtien Beach, according to its developer. <br />The 12-billion baht project consists of one 91-storey building of 327 m hight. During the process, it had to conduct a public hearing chaired by the Chon Buri governor and attended by Pattaya City representatives, environmental authorities, community leaders, tour operators and residents. <br />Its contractor is now relocating its foundation construction equipment from Malaysia to the site to get ready for the expected construction date. <br />The latest prices are from 125,000 - 135,000 per sq.m<br />WCA<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Whenever the world's tallest building goes up, the bottom falls out of the economy. The US went into a depression as the Empire State building began construction at the end of the roaring 20's. There was a severe recession when the WTC was completed in 1977. The Asian economic crisis began just as the Kuala Lumpur Petronas Towers were topped off. It seems to be happening again in Jomtien. As land is cleared for the Ocean 1 erection, the real-estate market here goes flaccid.

Hubris? Irrational exuberance? Who knows? We all know markets go up and down -- the higher they go, the lower they plunge.

Whoever is financing this monstrosity, and whoever has invested in it should take a look at history.

[toptuan]

Anyone can imagine the wind lashing the building in monsoon season?

It IS the 21st century.

Tokyo and Hong Kong with their skyscrapers experience typhoons annually.

Nothing like the mild monsoons we experience here.

[beginner]

<br />According to the Bangkok Post, Pattaya clears country's tallest condo. After a long wait for the approval of its environmental impact assessment (EIA), construction is due to start on March 30 of Thailand tallest residential building, the Ocean 1 Tower on Jomtien Beach, according to its developer. <br />The 12-billion baht project consists of one 91-storey building of 327 m hight. During the process, it had to conduct a public hearing chaired by the Chon Buri governor and attended by Pattaya City representatives, environmental authorities, community leaders, tour operators and residents. <br />Its contractor is now relocating its foundation construction equipment from Malaysia to the site to get ready for the expected construction date. <br />The latest prices are from 125,000 - 135,000 per sq.m<br />WCA<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Whenever the world's tallest building goes up, the bottom falls out of the economy. The US went into a depression as the Empire State building began construction at the end of the roaring 20's. There was a severe recession when the WTC was completed in 1977. The Asian economic crisis began just as the Kuala Lumpur Petronas Towers were topped off. It seems to be happening again in Jomtien. As land is cleared for the Ocean 1 erection, the real-estate market here goes flaccid.

Hubris? Irrational exuberance? Who knows? We all know markets go up and down -- the higher they go, the lower they plunge.

Whoever is financing this monstrosity, and whoever has invested in it should take a look at history.

You may be correct but this 'monstrosity' (I prefer 'noble and magnificent structure') will be a huge success long term. The Empire State and Petronis Towers you mention and dozens of other tall buildings dotted around the world are all landmark tourist attractions that give pleasure to millions. They are glorious monuments to mans optimism and progress.

You quote Edward Deweys "Skyscraper Indicator", which correlates human optimism to the number of high-rise buildings erected. Simply put, when humans are optimistic, they build toward the sky. Major economic downturns usually follow.

This only works with a very selective list of buildings. If you wait long enough there will always be a downturn and an upturn. Like the old joke, if its not raining, it soon will be.

Just look at Hong Kong, Dubai, Shanghai. Auckland,Tokyo,Frankfurt,London, etc etc. Dozens of amazing, wonderful edifices which were followed by continuing economic prosperity.

I concede however, that this particular time you may be right. But the building itself will endure and be admired and enjoyed for decades to come. Its not a quick build throw it up and sell it project.

I imagine that the financiers and individual purchasers are more than able to look after themselves financially but thanks for your concern.

[beginner]

Regarding the water supply for the building, weren't they supposed to be using desalinated sea water? Can't remember where I read that, but I'm pretty sure I read that...

Have a look at http://www.german-thai.com/cms/index.php?o...6&Itemid=13

Its all there including

The building includes the latest technology including a unique water recycling system for 80% of all wastewater. Hot water will be provided from a combined air-conditioning and solar heating system which will also ensures big savings on energy costs. An in house fire fighting team and a medical clinic will be on standby 24 hours a day.

[Chang_paarp]

No doubt beginner will be able to assist with this.

As most of us know this area is not known for stable electricity supply, blackouts and gradual brown outs are not uncommon. Will ther be generators to alow for the comfort of the owners when the inevitable happens? It would be a great reason to be late for work, :was stuck on the 75th floor and the lifts were not going up to get us".

While they will recycle 80% of their water, there will be the initial need to get some there especially during construction before the recycle systems are in place, again we are being warned of water shortages this year, and when I look across the road to Pattaya's water supply I more new islands every day. This is not always the fault of the developer but they and their customers will have to live with the consequences. Will the local sewerage works be able to handle the load from this and all the other approved developments?

Now we get to the niggley things that are relatively important to the folk who are the target market of the place, phone lines that work and internet that is reliable. Again not the domain of the developer, but it is infrastructure that has to be planned and installed. No doubt there will be phone plugs in every condo and even a internet connection but will the equipment at the other end of the line be there?

I am a bit of a cynic, while I am sure the building will happen and having built it the investors will come, but I do not see a lot of forward planning by the local establishment.

[beginner]

I am a bit of a cynic, while I am sure the building will happen and having built it the investors will come, but I do not see a lot of forward planning by the local establishment.

You raise some very good points about infrastructure.

The lifts will no doubt operate as normal during power outages as they do now in many Pattaya hi rise Buildings.

"There is a total of 13 lifts, 9 for public use, and 3 for each zone. The maximum waiting time is 18 seconds. One lift is for the exclusive use of the permanent on site fire fighting team and emergencies. The express lift will take 32 seconds to travel from the top level to the ground floor."

Water supply is also a real issue but

"O1 water tanks have enough reserves for one week."

As you say phone and internet will be important to purchasers

"Internet: Wireless fiber optic cable, movie on-line or video on demand. Telephone system also by fiber optic cables.

The building will be dependent on local infratructure but it is not a low cost, low rent project. The pricing of the units will attract the kind of people who buy and appreciate the best. They will require and insist on and pay for impeccable maintenance procedures.It is not aimed at the lower end of the market. Solutions used will be the best technically possible not the cheapest available.

During the planned build time of four years one hopes that many of these infrastructure deficiencies will be addressed as part of the intended upgrading and evolution of Jomtien as a premium destination.` The willingness to spend money will solve many problems.

I write here as an interested observer and long time fan of hi-rise living. I am not connected to the developers and have no inside knowledge.

It is very easy to be cynical in LOS but this project seems to be the real thing.

[Humphrey Bear]

During the planned build time of four years one hopes that many of these infrastructure deficiencies will be addressed as part of the intended upgrading and evolution of Jomtien as a premium destination.` The willingness to spend money will solve many problems.

My wife is willing to spend a great deal of money, but it doesn't solve any problems.

We have had infrastructure shortages since the time Pattaya grew up - say the 1980s.

No effective solutions have been found to the water shortage, the treatment of sewage, efficient phone service or power generation. The continuing expansion of the area is driving the decisions on infrastructure - but these are lagging by severakl years at the moment.

By the way - if you are British - I worked in my youth for Taylor Woodrow Anglian. We built Ronan Point - a fine example of high-rise living.

[beginner]

By the way - if you are British - I worked in my youth for Taylor Woodrow Anglian. We built Ronan Point - a fine example of high-rise living.

They have thought of that one too.

For fire prevention no gas cooking is allowed. The kitchens have induction cooking plates. A cooking element will only work when a utensil (sauce pan) is sitting on the element.

Ronan Point. Those were the days!

01 won't be perfect but what is?

[Jangot]

I like the project also, but I do wonder about high rises built on sand. I grew up in earthquake country and though Thailand has luckily been spared a devastating earthquake in living memory, it does exist near the "ring of fire" where volcanic and seismic activity is only a matter of time.

Another way to spell SAND is LIQUEFACTION, not a happy thought for anyone living in a high rise at the beach!

Oh! c'mon, they don't build build high rises on a slab raft like a beach bungalow!!!

The foundation piles will be driven waaay down to anchor on bedrock.

But talking of 'quake safeguards, look at the design of the 101 in Taipei. At the top of that building, they have a massive steel ball that hangs pendulum like from steel cables, but is damped by computer controlled hydraulic rams. When the computers detect sway in the building, they shift the ball in opposition to counter the sway. Very impressive and well worth a visit if you get to Taipei.

J.

[OneMikeInBangkok]

I like the project also, but I do wonder about high rises built on sand. I grew up in earthquake country and though Thailand has luckily been spared a devastating earthquake in living memory, it does exist near the "ring of fire" where volcanic and seismic activity is only a matter of time.

Another way to spell SAND is LIQUEFACTION, not a happy thought for anyone living in a high rise at the beach!

Oh! c'mon, they don't build build high rises on a slab raft like a beach bungalow!!!

The foundation piles will be driven waaay down to anchor on bedrock.

But talking of 'quake safeguards, look at the design of the 101 in Taipei. At the top of that building, they have a massive steel ball that hangs pendulum like from steel cables, but is damped by computer controlled hydraulic rams. When the computers detect sway in the building, they shift the ball in opposition to counter the sway. Very impressive and well worth a visit if you get to Taipei.

J.

Geologicaly the Eastern Seaboard of Thailand is not prone to earthquakes unlike other regions of South and South East Asia so should not be a realistic consideration.

Ocean 1 will be built 200+ meters from the sea so on reasonably firmer ground than say VT7 which is actually on the beach shelf - the foundations actually flood with seawater at high tide.

One of course would expect the piling to be driven well into the bedrock. However this is Thailand and the contractors will need careful scrutiny. Many piles on VT7 for example were not driven to bed rock - I know I stood and watched for day after day. The site itself was surveyed years ago and deemed unsuitable for a high rise - but that didn't stop View Talay of course.

I know we are talking about Ocean 1 and not VT but as I said this is Thailand and Thai standards are way below what you would expect in the west and with little or no oversight from City Hall way below Bangkok Standards.

I was chatting to an engineer in Bangkok about the Baiyoke Tower which at present is the tallest building in Thailand. He shook his head in dismay and explained that Baiyoke was a disaster waiting to happen. As we all know Bangkok is built on the flood plain of the Chao Phraya River. The river is fed by many tributaries and man made canals. Nowadays you only see a few of the main waterways as they have been in the main built over especially for roads. Baiyoke is built directly over one of these rivers.

[Humphrey Bear]

One of course would expect the piling to be driven well into the bedrock. However this is Thailand and the contractors will need careful scrutiny. Many piles on VT7 for example were not driven to bed rock - I know I stood and watched for day after day. The site itself was surveyed years ago and deemed unsuitable for a high rise - but that didn't stop View Talay of course.

Piles are not necessarily end-bearing.

Many are 'friction' piles and rely on the interaction of the uneven column sides to distribute weight, whereas end-bearing piles transfer much of the weight down to the underlying rock strata.

But there is an amount of friction in end-bearing piles and an amount of end-loading in friction piles. Depends what you design and the soil parameters.

[OneMikeInBangkok]

One of course would expect the piling to be driven well into the bedrock. However this is Thailand and the contractors will need careful scrutiny. Many piles on VT7 for example were not driven to bed rock - I know I stood and watched for day after day. The site itself was surveyed years ago and deemed unsuitable for a high rise - but that didn't stop View Talay of course.

Piles are not necessarily end-bearing.

Many are 'friction' piles and rely on the interaction of the uneven column sides to distribute weight, whereas end-bearing piles transfer much of the weight down to the underlying rock strata.

But there is an amount of friction in end-bearing piles and an amount of end-loading in friction piles. Depends what you design and the soil parameters.

WOW - next time I get a dose of piles I will call on the expert Mr. Humphrey

[Rinrada]

Yestrday it woz........Formosa.....

tomorrow........patti...yes....

[Humphrey Bear]

Yestrday it woz........Formosa.....

tomorrow........patti...yes....

No chance - Dubai is already way ahead - and looking for a lot more!

http://www.dubai-architecture.info/DUB-GAL1.htm

[wilko]

According to the Bangkok Post, Pattaya clears country's tallest condo.

So is this like a communal "cow jumped over the moon"?

"Pattaya clears tallest condo".....I would have liked to have witnessed that....

[CRUNCHER]

The developer can't seem to finish View Telay Residences which are only 7 stories. (Money problems??). What chance they can finish a 91 story building? They are nearly a year late starting the project.

[prospero]

<br />The developer can't seem to finish View Telay Residences which are only 7 stories. (Money problems??). What chance they can finish a 91 story building? They are nearly a year late starting the project.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

This developer gets his hands on a postage-stamp piece of property on a narrow soi. Instead of building something appropriate to the site, he decides to erect a tasteless, grossly oversized, highly inappropriate behemoth which will dwarf everything around it and contribute nothing to the surroundings except shadow. If he were putting the thing up on a larger site, with surrounding open space, it might be justifiable, but the only excuse for this thing is greed greed greed. And folly, folly, folly. If he really had the funds to build the thing, he would have had the funds to buy a larger piece of land to build it on. I would stay far away from this thing. There are highly regarded developers like Raimon Land that will be putting up quality buildings in Jomtien over the next few years.

[Taijitu]

Ocean 1 will be built ..............on reasonably firmer ground than say VT7 which is actually on the beach shelf - the foundations actually flood with seawater at high tide.

That's very true. I've watched it happening. Not only the foundations but the concrete "foot plate" gets partially submerged also. This high tide here must also affect Jomtien Complex Condotel as I've also seen the nearby ditches fill up with seawater during a high tide.

[CRUNCHER]

This developer gets his hands on a postage-stamp piece of property on a narrow soi. Instead of building something appropriate to the site, he decides to erect a tasteless, grossly oversized, highly inappropriate behemoth which will dwarf everything around it and contribute nothing to the surroundings except shadow. If he were putting the thing up on a larger site, with surrounding open space, it might be justifiable, but the only excuse for this thing is greed greed greed. And folly, folly, folly. If he really had the funds to build the thing, he would have had the funds to buy a larger piece of land to build it on. I would stay far away from this thing. There are highly regarded developers like Raimon Land that will be putting up quality buildings in Jomtien over the next few years.

Spot on Prospero.

Also - if they run out of money when the thing gets to 50 or 60 floors it will be an eyesore for years. This is a distinct possibility.

[Humphrey Bear]

There are highly regarded developers like Raimon Land

[Ground Engineer]

There are highly regarded developers like Raimon Land

They cant be that bad as they won a host of awards in the 2007 Thailand Property awards:

A lavish Gala Dinner was held at the Royal Orchid Sheraton in Bangkok on Saturday night, to announce the winners of the 2007 Thailand Property Awards. More than 350 of Thailand´s real estate elite were in attendance to celebrate the award.

A three phase process is used to determine the winner in each category:

First, the real estate industry were invited to nominate companies in the 12 categories. Nominees could not nominate themselves, nor nominate in a category where there may be a conflict of interest. This phase closed on 31st August with over 260 nominations received.

Secondly, all nominees were contacted by the organizers and invited to enter. The entry procedure was done online with each entrant having secure password-protected access to ensure privacy. No entry fee was involved. This phase closed on 31st October with 112 entries received.

Lastly, a team of 22 judges selected from different disciplines in the industry, were given secure password-protected access to their private judging areas online. Different Judges were selected to judge on different awards to ensure no bias and conflict of interest, and Judges were selected from around Thailand to a ensure fair representation of different market segments. This last phase closed on 18th November.

The final winners were:

McEvily & Collins Best Developer, won by Raimon Land PLC. (Bangkok)

Best Boutique Developer, won by Dhevatara Properties Co. Ltd. (Samui)

British Chamber of Commerce Thailand Best International Agent, won by CB Richard Ellis (Thailand) Co. Ltd. (Bangkok)

Best Thailand Agent, won by Samui Villas & Homes Co. Ltd. (Samui)

Best Resort Villa Development, won by The Yamu. (Phuket)

Vivaldi PR Best Urban Condo Development, won by The Legend. (Bangkok)

Best Resort Condo Development, won by Royal Phuket Marina. (Phuket)

Lighthouse Club Green Development Award, won by: West Sands. (Phuket)

Gaggenau Best Architect, won by Woods Bagot (Thailand) Ltd. (Bangkok)

Best Interior Designer, won by S.O.D.A. Sachdev ODell (Thailand) Co. Ltd. (Bangkok)

Best Agent Website, won by www.siamrealestate.com. (Phuket)

Best Development Website, won by: www.theriverbangkok.com. (Bangkok)

“The 2007 awards saw a very high level of competition and the winners truly deserve this recognition. There was a good spread of winners from around Thailand, with strong showings from both Phuket and Samui, as well as Bangkok,” said Duncan Worthington, Managing Director of organisers Ensign Media Co. Ltd.

“Thailand’s real estate industry has faced a number of challenges this year with growth being slower than previously expected. However, the success of the 2007 Thailand Property Awards and acknowledgment of the winners by their peers here tonight is a good indicator of the underlying quality and dynamic of the industry throughout the country,” added Worthington. A charity auction was held during the Gala Dinner with all the proceeds going towards building a school for orphans at the Mercy Centre . The auction raised 764,000THB with Raimon Land offering to donate the balance needed to reach the 1.5 million THB target.

[Humphrey Bear]

Raimon Land's 'flagship' developments in Pattaya are Northshore and Northpoint.

If you search the Pattaya forum for these names you will see the numerous disparaging commnets from dissatisfied buyers and prospective buyers.

To gain awards from a group of real estate developers in an incestuous round of back-slapping, self-congratulatory dinners is nothing special. To have awards from outside their own community may swing a little weight, but I frankly prefer when someone comes up to me and says 'Thank you - our house is really just as we dreamed it would be'.

And my bank manager will talk to me in the street.

EDIT: Here is one thread, for instance, with both pro- and anti- posts on Northshore.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;hl=Northpoint

[Humphrey Bear]

Here is the latest on Northpoint from Pattaya Daily News

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/showfeatur...reID=0000000690

Updated: [ February 29, 2008 ] :: 16:08:00 [view 144 ]

RAIMON LAND SEALS PARTNERSHIP WITH LEADING GLOBAL CONGLOMERATE BOUYGUES CONSTRUCTION

Bouygues Construction - a leading global construction conglomerate with operations in 60 countries - is boosting its presence in Thailand through a strategic partnership with prominent real estate developer Raimon Land.

The move is a major show of faith in the Kingdom and its property sector from one of the world’s major proponents of quality construction standards. Bouygues Construction Chief Executive Officer, Mr Yves Gabriel, visited Thailand to hold discussions with Raimon Land Chief Executive Officer, Mr Nigel Cornick, and to open an office in Pattaya. Bouygues local subsidiary Bouygues-Thai, is overseeing the building of Raimon Land’s 374-condominium unit Northpoint project in Pattaya.

Mr Gabriel said Thailand’s high-end residential property market continues to offer solid returns, whether from rental yields or capital gains, and the long-term potential remains strong. “Especially now that the newly elected government is in place we feel this is the perfect time to increase our presence in one of Asia’s most dynamic property development markets,” Mr Gabriel said. Raimon Land’s Mr Cornick added his company’s partnership with Bouygues-Thai raises the bar for condominium construction in Thailand. “Thailand’s increasingly knowledgeable property investors have never been more demanding in their needs for high standard building values and quality finishes to their condominiums. “This is particularly true in Pattaya, where we recognised the enormous untapped potential from international buyers and we have recently opened an office there to service this demand.”

Raimon Land’s investment in Pattaya stands at THB2.7 billion which represents almost 30% of the company’s entire investment in Thailand. Bangkok-based Bouygues-Thai was founded in 1990 and has evolved into one of Thailand’s most respected construction firms. Managing Director Jean-Marie Verbrugghe leads a workforce of around 3,000. Completed Bangkok projects include the Impact Challenger and several luxury housing developments. With the number of Pattaya condominium units annually launched climbing to 2,268 in 2007 and Bouygues-Thai’s new partnership with Raimon Land, the residential property market in Thailand’s top beach resort looks set to move forward on stable…and profitable ground.

[Ground Engineer]

Its no secret that Northshore was a refurb of an unfinished reinforced concrete structure. That doesnt mean that it couldnt or wasnt refurbished properly or the structural integrity of the building wasnt assessed by qualified professionals. Ive had a look around Northshore, outside its very aesthetic compared to most of the high rise in Thailand and inside the units are quite pleasant too. Not European standards of finishing on some of the second fixings but not far off.

Cant find anything derogatory on any other of there developements and most things Ive seen written on Raimon Land are complementary. So I cant understand where you are coming from Humphrey Bear.

[JaiDeeFarang]

I think Raimon Land are percieved to be the best because of their deep pockets and unlimited budget for marketing and PR, they must have better spin than Hillary Clinton. I know that many buyers were given 'Fans' because the air conditioning was not sufficient to cool the place down, several received 'hush money' of 100,000 baht to keep it quiet! I came across this attached email one day, I think it says it all.

Northshore_letter.doc

[JaiDeeFarang]

For anyone interested Northshore was previously being sold as Panview Towers Condominium by Thai developers, here's a pic of what they had in mind.

[Humphrey Bear]

Its no secret that Northshore was a refurb of an unfinished reinforced concrete structure. That doesnt mean that it couldnt or wasnt refurbished properly or the structural integrity of the building wasnt assessed by qualified professionals. Ive had a look around Northshore, outside its very aesthetic compared to most of the high rise in Thailand and inside the units are quite pleasant too. Not European standards of finishing on some of the second fixings but not far off.

Cant find anything derogatory on any other of there developements and most things Ive seen written on Raimon Land are complementary. So I cant understand where you are coming from Humphrey Bear.

I personally have not had business dealings with Raimon Land, but I have friends / acquantancies who have had. Not one has a good word to say.

As the stories I have heard are 'hearsay' I do not want to repeat them on a public forum. The legal consequences may be difficult to handle. I realise that this leaves insinuation and innuendo, but such is life.

Raimon Land have a very good and very pervasive PR section - there are frequent 'letters from satisfied customers' in the press that can be traced back to the RL office. Press releases are frequently disguised as journalistic articles by independent observers. I assume this was all learnt by Nigel Cornick at Southampton, where he took a Real Estate course.

As an engineer I probably distrust salesmen, and NC is solely a salesman. I am just a grubby engineer, as I assume are you.

[awayfoe]

Does anyone know who is going to build this development? Several people have told me that K-Tech their proposed contractor are in dire trouble and that La Royale is already a year behind schedule? How can they advertise "Your dream home is ready" when there isn't even a window in the place, nice paint job though! NOT

I'd already heard that there were plans for an Ocean 2 tower, but not sure on which site. A few more and they could get George Clooney for the Grand Opening of Oceans 7 and have Brad Pitt absailing down it!

My main worry would be the actual funding of the project, what Thai bank would lend a farang 12 billion baht? I guess it would have to be a consortium of banks to spread the risk. Obviously there is money coming in from sales, but what about the 300 odd Thai ownership apartments which will be hard to sell at that price?

I do hope the development does happen, because it will be amazing for Pattaya, I just wouldn't want to risk any of my money with so many uncertainties even with an EIA and City Hall's blessing.

K-TECK is looking now for new partner !

quotation in bangkok stock exchange are closed since last november and employees have no salary since two month !

source : bangkok post newspaper

happy new year ocean 1 !!!!!!!!!!

[JaiDeeFarang]

The developer can't seem to finish View Telay Residences which are only 7 stories. (Money problems??). What chance they can finish a 91 story building? They are nearly a year late starting the project.

And K-Tech seem to be suffering for it...