Phuket: How Dangerous Is It?

[LivinLOS]

Perhaps, before we should all announce that 'its changing for the worse' (of which I am guilty and do personally believe).. One aspect we could consider.

Thailand has always been a fairly lawless and violent place, witness any upcountry morlam brawl, or saphan hin after dark swordfighting, the fate of the brumese fishermen, thai karaoke etc etc etc.

Farangs used to be a rarity, and IMO farangs used to have a status advantage or at least Thais did not know how to evaluate our status (confused at rich guys with dark farm girls, etc etc) I can see how in the past that may have given the more dangerous, poorer, more rural and rough elements pause before targetting farangs as victims of violent crime, where farangs were considered to be high status, and if not off limits at least more likely to give pause.

Now after longer exposure, the bar scene, drunken tourists exhibiting poor behaviour that cache and mystique could well have worn off and we are now seen much more as pure money making machines who are fair game to be scammed and ripped.

Its as much and evolution of the relationship to a rare outsider to Thailand being saturated with them in some regions, I have to say sometimes when we travel around to 'developed' regions of Thailand (Hua Hin, Phuket, Khao Lak, Krabi, to say nothing of Patts) you just see soo many farangs on the street you wonder where the native Thais are, there are almost none there spending money into all that development set up purely to work the farang trade only there as economic servants to the tourist trade. Even without the girl scene that would have to build a lot of resentment.

[WOOHOO]

I agree with practically everything said so far, however I would like to be a bit more positive. As someone said before, most Thais are good folk (95% at least) I would like you to picture this: Every year 10's of thousands of very wealthy Asians descend on the poorer areas of, say for example, London, Manchester, and Glasgow, They strut around as if they own the place, drive brand new cars, fall around drunk in the streets, etc etc. What do you think would happen? Not one of them would survive long enough to write a postcard home. There would be riots and they would have to be stopped by the government from coming. The point I'm making is that whilst we bash the 5% that are scum bags, lets not forget the rest that show more, restraint and decency than farang ever would if the roles were reversed. I'm a morally sound person but I know if the shoe was on the other foot, I would loath farang with a passion and maybe would become slightly less moral. So the fact that most don't is a true representation of the people of phukets, patience and character.

As far as dealing with the scummy minority goes, it simply comes down to the law of averages, if you ride a bike along the coast at 3am every day you will eventually get mugged/hurt. If you go out drinking and find yourself in Safari every night at 4 am then you will eventually get in to trouble. The less you do those thing the less the risk. I believe if you use the already very well quoted words 'COMMON SENSE' you can live almost risk free.

In answer to your question ade100, I had my first child 6 weeks ago and had to make the very important decision, as you will, of is Phuket the right place to bring up my son, and the conclusion I came to was definitely yes. I think of him playing football on the beach, snorkeling with the fish, nature walks through the jungle, etc etc, and then I think of him in England in the middle of winter, rain belting down outside, sitting in front of the t.v or playstation. The benefits of this place, by far out way the risk of being a victim of serious crime. It's just my opinion of course and most people tell me I don't know sh*t, but I think any child raised in this part of the world is a lucky sod, I wish I had been.

[phuketrichard]

I have been living in Phuket since 1986 and it has most definitly gotten worse. BUT saying that so has everywhere in the world.

I have no bars on my windows, in fact i never shut the windows, ride a motorbike and since living in kamala for 10 years no trouble.

BUT back in Patong in the 90's my home was broken into 3 times. While managing the Titanic disco was set upon twice by thai mafia shits.

I wouldn't even consider driving the Patong/Karon/kata road at night nor would i think about living in Rawai or Na harn ( that seems to be where the most robberies are in the low season), wonder why??. Nor would i ever ride in a tuk tuk or bad mouth a katoey or group of thai boys in any bar after 10 pm. Common sense will go a long way

I can still recall there being ONLY 3 traffic lights on the island and no road between Patong and Karon beach, no Malls, not even getting the bangkom post on the same day.

For the average uneducated thai all they see is rich farangs riding around on nice bikes or cars, living in nice homes and generally enjoying their lives>> Of course they want a part of it.

The more Phuket grows the more it acquires all the trappings of the 21st century.

Still its home

[gsrmaui]

You know, I just got finished building a home in the Rawai , and it is very unsetteling to keep hearing about how bad it has gotten in this area. Crime happens everywhere, and I think that you just don't hear about it all of the time. It just seems that when it happens in Rawai/ Nai Harn, we hear about it faster and it it spread like wildfire on the forum.

[ade100]

I agree with practically everything said so far, however I would like to be a bit more positive. As someone said before, most Thais are good folk (95% at least) I would like you to picture this: Every year 10's of thousands of very wealthy Asians descend on the poorer areas of, say for example, London, Manchester, and Glasgow, They strut around as if they own the place, drive brand new cars, fall around drunk in the streets, etc etc. What do you think would happen? Not one of them would survive long enough to write a postcard home. There would be riots and they would have to be stopped by the government from coming. The point I'm making is that whilst we bash the 5% that are scum bags, lets not forget the rest that show more, restraint and decency than farang ever would if the roles were reversed. I'm a morally sound person but I know if the shoe was on the other foot, I would loath farang with a passion and maybe would become slightly less moral. So the fact that most don't is a true representation of the people of phukets, patience and character.

As far as dealing with the scummy minority goes, it simply comes down to the law of averages, if you ride a bike along the coast at 3am every day you will eventually get mugged/hurt. If you go out drinking and find yourself in Safari every night at 4 am then you will eventually get in to trouble. The less you do those thing the less the risk. I believe if you use the already very well quoted words 'COMMON SENSE' you can live almost risk free.

In answer to your question ade100, I had my first child 6 weeks ago and had to make the very important decision, as you will, of is Phuket the right place to bring up my son, and the conclusion I came to was definitely yes. I think of him playing football on the beach, snorkeling with the fish, nature walks through the jungle, etc etc, and then I think of him in England in the middle of winter, rain belting down outside, sitting in front of the t.v or playstation. The benefits of this place, by far out way the risk of being a victim of serious crime. It's just my opinion of course and most people tell me I don't know sh*t, but I think any child raised in this part of the world is a lucky sod, I wish I had been.

This is very interesting. Thanks for your input. For me if I chickened out of starting a family in Phuket, the second option would be Singapore where my work is already based. Singapore is not as much fun or as beautiful as Phuket but it has very little crime and the services are excellent. It also has beaches and jungle, not sure about the snokling - water is a bit murky :-)

My head says Singapore but my heart says Phuket. It's a tough decision.

[Macx]

I had an interesting conversation with a local Thai from Kamala a few weeks ago. From his modest shop, we could see the million dollar mansions being built high on the newly gouged mountainsides. I asked him how he felt about the new face of his town. He said he had always thought he was pretty well off with his shop, home, and bit of land, but now looking up the hills and at all the fancy resorts, he felt poor even though his shop was doing well.

It seems that most average folks (not landowners or developers) suddenly see themselves dropping a level socially and economically.

I wonder if we were in their shoes, would we behave half as well.

I'm pleasantly surprised that there aren't more muggings, robberies, and murders.

I also wonder why they stopped checking the undercarriage of cars for bombs at the shopping malls--at least for times when I went. Is it because they realized what a farce that charade is, or is it because there is no longer a bomb threat in Phuket? Have they come to some understanding/agreement with the southern insurgents?

Edited February 17, 2008 by Macx

[IgnacioE]

My head says Singapore but my heart says Phuket. It's a tough decision.

I apologize to others for being a bit off topic...

I don't know about 'beaches and jungle' unless you are talking about Sentosa and the Singapore Zoo (joking, lah!).

The best situation isn't OR but AND but living in both places.

Stay in SG a little longer and you'll get it. Singapore is a miracle but when you get down to it, it's a soul-less, spiritless place that more and more resembles William Gibson's article in Wired Magazine in the late 90's called "Disneyland with a Death Penalty". I don't want my kids growing up there and they won't.

Out of all the threads I've ever read on Thaivisa Phuket forum, this one has been the most provocative and has had the most sensible comments and advice.

My $.02 worth is that I have never witnessed any gratuitous violence in Phuket or visiting Thailand over the last 20 years, contrary to what I have seen often - and have been a recipient of - in the States. My experience from friends who have said they were doing nothing here in Phuket and got whacked by a local is that if you dig deep down they did something to provoke somebody.

[isabelle17]

My thai friends always told me to stay away from Saphan Hin (sp?) at night. Supposibly a lot of teenage gangs are there at night? I dont know if this is true, as I never went there at night except for once and I felt relatively safe....

I would say overall I feel safer in Phuket than I do in Bangkok. Maybe Phuket has gotten more dangerous, but like many people have said, I think a lot of places are getting more dangerous, not just Phuket.

[sriracha john]

Speaking of dangerous:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169632

Requesting Information On Earl Bonds In Phuket

* For PM referral purposes only: Please do not comment in posts regarding either this closed thread or the closed thread it references *

Edited February 18, 2008 by sriracha john

[mekka]

1 week ago a friend arrived from Holland, first time in Thailand and at around 11pm he was at one of the boxing stadiums in patong, he was looking into some classes when a thai offered to take him out to another muay thai camp to take a look, he stupidly agreed and jumped on his scooter, they drove for 25mins into what he thought was the middle of no-where we he finally asked the man to stop and he got off the scooter, the thai demanded 300baht which my friend didnt have as he thought they were just going to drive down the block to check out a nearby camp, the thai then kicked him to the ground and started laying into him, 2 other thais then stopped and joined in, they attemtped to drag him into the bushes on the side of the road but he over powered them and made a run for it, making it to a small bar (im guessing in the rawai area from the sounds of it) with 3 thais on his tail holding bricks he ran into the bar where all the girls screamed "fight fight fight"

then an older thai lady the manager of the bar came to his rescue and took him behind the bar called the police and thankfully he is ok..but by the sounds of it very very lucky! And very stupid on his part to agree to such a thing especially 11pm at night, but only being in Thailand a few hours he had no idea!

Be careful guys!

[SurferBob]

1 week ago a friend arrived from Holland, first time in Thailand and at around 11pm he was at one of the boxing stadiums in patong, he was looking into some classes when a thai offered to take him out to another muay thai camp to take a look, he stupidly agreed and jumped on his scooter, they drove for 25mins into what he thought was the middle of no-where we he finally asked the man to stop and he got off the scooter, the thai demanded 300baht which my friend didnt have as he thought they were just going to drive down the block to check out a nearby camp, the thai then kicked him to the ground and started laying into him, 2 other thais then stopped and joined in, they attemtped to drag him into the bushes on the side of the road but he over powered them and made a run for it, making it to a small bar (im guessing in the rawai area from the sounds of it) with 3 thais on his tail holding bricks he ran into the bar where all the girls screamed "fight fight fight"

then an older thai lady the manager of the bar came to his rescue and took him behind the bar called the police and thankfully he is ok..but by the sounds of it very very lucky! And very stupid on his part to agree to such a thing especially 11pm at night, but only being in Thailand a few hours he had no idea!

Be careful guys!

Not saying the guy deserved it, of course he didn't - but just arriving in a foreign country for the first time ... jumping on the back of a bike with a local he just met (from Patong) ... not taking any money with him... not stopping the driver for 25 minutes.... talk about nuts!! He was very lucky for sure... serious lessons to be learn't there.

''My suspicions were first aroused when the road ran out...''

//Bob

[gsrmaui]

The reason I just built a house in Rawai is because when it is time for me to retire, I won't be able to afford to live in Hawaii any longer. I can somewhat understand how the Thais feel about the foreigners coming over and grab land. It has happened here on Maui and the locals here feel the same way. But, they don't get hostile and go out and rob and steal or murder. I think what's different here, is that it that the cost of living seems to be expensive for everyone; locals and new comers alike. Maybe the difference here is that the new comers have a lot of respect for the locals. And in Thailand, the foreigners don't always seem to have that respect for the Thais. And I'd like to see more of that when I am there. And that goes along with using your common sense.

[sadman]

A couple of points. I don't yet live in Phuket, but get over several times a year and have done for some years. I use my common sense but don't have a gun, or pepper spray or anything. I'm not afraid of going anywhere on the island but would obviously exercise caution as appropriate. I feel safer in Phuket than in London and I think that statistically I am probably actually safer, as well.

To be fair, I live in Cherngtalay (semi-rural, pretty quiet), but I feel ok anywhere. The local police are pretty good - not perfect, but have you seen the police in London lately? Talk about falling standards.

I don't ride a motorbike because of accidents (although I always ride one in London) and I have no problem with taking my children/grandson around the island.

BTW my wife grew up in Singapore (army brat) and although we've been back to visit, she wouldn't want to live there, but wants to live in Phuket.

[BigSnake]

During the recent time I spent there I found it to be fairly safe, suggest keep your self safe stay out of lest travel places late at night, carry little cash, go with several buddies when possible, bottom line think safe be safe as possible.

[LivinLOS]

Just hearing of another shooting.. Down at the Phi Phi Ferry pier..

Thai on Thai.. Total chaos, 2 men chasing one guy around, him trying to use people as a shield.. them popping him anyway.

[mekka]

Another death in Patong..german man jumped from the 20th floor of the Royal Paradise Hotel yesterday...that is the story reported by the gazette today, saying it didnt look "suspicious" guess we will see what the next few days uncover..

condolences to his family and friends

[mekka]

Link for the death mentioned.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=6282

[ade100]

Thanks everyone for some great input.

Seems the consensus is that exercising reasonable caution and not being a “tosser” can greatly minimise the chances of getting into trouble. However there is always the chance of just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

To the point made by IgnacioE about Singapore being soul-less, I would certainly agree that the place has endless shopping marls, office buildings and rather bland government housing. However it is also a melting point of so many Asian cultures, its probably one of the best places I have ever been for food, there are temples and religious festivals all over the island, it has miles of sandy beaches along the east coast, nature reserves, botanical gardens, art galleries, museums and lots of nearby islands to explore. However having said all that it doesn’t make me feel glad to be alive in the same way Phuket does.

Many posters paint a picture of the local Phuket people feeling jealous and resentful when the white honeys roll into town in their flashy cars, build their luxury villas and no doubt sometimes behave in an arrogant way to locals. It’s a fair point. But the other side of the story is that the Phuket economy is almost entirely dependent on the tourist (and long term tourist) industry. A Thai was telling me the other day that 80% of jobs are in the tourist industry (including real estate) and even those that aren’t are greatly affected by the seasonal tourist industry.

[huggybear]

The reason I just built a house in Rawai is because when it is time for me to retire, I won't be able to afford to live in Hawaii any longer.

Two words for you, for safety at your retirement villa.................

BIG DOG

[harleyclarkey]

I bought in Chalong...a rather modest house...that has been broken into already but not a lot taken.

The only 2 times I had any hassle in Thailand were with Foreigners, stoned/drunk out of their heads and spoiling for a fight...(both times Australians. I accept it as a probable coincidence to save the Ozzies getting upset!! ).

I have seen this all too often with farang unable to control their drinking with the availability of cheap booze and high temperatures. What worries me is the low quality of a lot of tourist (male and female) that now descend on Thailand in their droves. What accounts for a pittance in their own countries can buy them all they want and desire in Thailand. Therein lies a lot of the problems. The new found "status" goes to their heads and gives them a false sense of power and arrogancee. All too often I have seen an unfortunate beautiful Thai girl having to endure downright rude, agressive, physical, loud and brash farang, heads swelled with their new importance. Nobody would look at these low life guys in their own countries and here they are..... Kings for their week or two. Snarling faces, clicking fingers, loud and unshaven. This does not go down well at all with the locals and for sure causes a lot of resentment.

Slightly off the track.........I have seen (in Kata) about 5 local lads kicking the life out of another local lad. It is something I never want to see again. The violence of the attack was shocking and the "punishment" dealt out was out of all proportion to whatever he did. He was a lifless limp figure and still these brave guys (5 to 1) kicked him and jumped on his head. Sickening. My Thai Gf told me not to even look and back away FAST. I did as advised.

All in all I try to keep my head down and avoid any rudeness or annoyance to locals. Common courtesty really and common sense in a foreign country? And, touch wood (no, not that one!!), it stays that way for me.

[GraemeF]

My head says Singapore but my heart says Phuket. It's a tough decision.

I apologize to others for being a bit off topic...

I don't know about 'beaches and jungle' unless you are talking about Sentosa and the Singapore Zoo (joking, lah!).

The best situation isn't OR but AND but living in both places.

Stay in SG a little longer and you'll get it. Singapore is a miracle but when you get down to it, it's a soul-less, spiritless place that more and more resembles William Gibson's article in Wired Magazine in the late 90's called "Disneyland with a Death Penalty". I don't want my kids growing up there and they won't.

Out of all the threads I've ever read on Thaivisa Phuket forum, this one has been the most provocative and has had the most sensible comments and advice.

My $.02 worth is that I have never witnessed any gratuitous violence in Phuket or visiting Thailand over the last 20 years, contrary to what I have seen often - and have been a recipient of - in the States. My experience from friends who have said they were doing nothing here in Phuket and got whacked by a local is that if you dig deep down they did something to provoke somebody.

After living in Singapore for 17 years I cannot disagree more. The people that comment on Singapore being soul-less are generally people who never get to know the place, you would be amazed how many people live here for 2-3 years and think everybody lives in condos and all there is Orchard road (I NEVER go to Orchard road), complete Bull, I live in a 1930's british military house in a sprawling estate with jungle all around with 12 mins drive to the office. I have three young children and could not possibly think of a better/safer/cleaner place to bring them up with good education available and plenty for them to do. That coupled with the closeness of phuket where we have our 2nd home and visit 6-7 times a year makes it even more ideal.

I have read the articles re the increase in violence in phuket and have to admit it worries me, however in Cherngtalay we feel safe and have never had any issues, then again we never ride scooters and hate patong !

[BkkAnimalover]

Ok is Getting Worse than before , but it's still one of the safest place to live ! Naturally it is a safe place for the people that are not looking for problems or acting in a way that could attract some Big Problems....I personally live between Bkk and Phuket for the past 15 years , I never got any kind of problem and I never find my self in a situation that drive me to begin to think.....to purchase a firearms ! I have very good feeling with almost of the " tuk-tuk" drivers , My mother live in Patong from more than one years ( she's 75 ! ) alone for six days a week , do not speak a word of Thai or English , She's amazed by the Kindness of The Thais and She always remarks how safe She feel walking around even late in the evening compared to any European or American city or even small towns where , elder people are frequently arowsed , smashed on the ground by teppist that want to stole their money or their valuables and have to live in the fears of being killed or heavly hurted for few Euros. This is MY PERSONAL VIEW , ORIGINATED BY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES , COULD BE RIGHT OR WRONG . ANYWAY I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A PLACE THAT , IF YOU DO NOT NEED AND DO NOT LOOK FOR PROBLEMS , PROBLEMS ALMOST NEVER REACH YOU !

[stuandchris]

My neighbour, a very quiet man, who is here on a three month holiday got run off the the road in Patong last week by a taxi driver, as he careered off the road he yelled you F'in idiot to the driver. This it seems was enough for the driver to stop, get out of the car and threaten him before driving off.

My neighbour went to the closest bar to stop shaking when the bar owner grabbed him and pulled him inside his house as 4 men where outside waving guns to come and get him.

He is now in hiding for the last week of his holiday.

What with the murders recently, the muggings in Rawai etc it does seem to be getting worse rapidly.

I come from a pretty tough place in the UK and never saw a gun in my life, here they seem to be flashed off at will.

[LivinginKata]

In a previous topic I described how I had a gun waved in my face just off Nanai Road last year in a minor road incident. Prior to that, over the years I have had numerous cases of bad Tuk Tuk driving along Nanai Rd, leading me to 'loose the place' and road rage takes over on both sides. This is a no-win situation as Tuk Tuk driver will keep up the chase, and all his pals will jump in as well. You have to be good to drive off into the sunset & hide. It's just not worth it. These days I just get out of their way smartly and give them no reason to be enraged, and I hope they crash & die soon.

[stuandchris]

But it is getting worse and the problem needs to be addressed urgently.

Phuket wants to promote itself as an 'upmarket' destination whilst this sort of thing goes on on a daily basis.

Perhaps if the big tour groups, hotels and developers started kicking up in Bangkok something might get done.

Tourists will not come if this persists.

Meanwhile the expats I know have bats and worse by their beds to defend themselves as they know calling the police is a waste of time.

Imagine any 'developed' country where 4 people were waving guns around, armed response in 5 mins, no taking sides because 1 is farang or anything like that.

[LivinginKata]

You have hit the nail of the head, 'the police are a waste of time' = the bad guys can do what they want, and have little fear of 'law & order'. The local police are just systematic of the corrupt government from top to bottom, from parliament to the local government office. I fear that there is little that this new Prime Minister will do, other than continue to line his own pockets, thus encouraging all level government & police to do the same. So it is going to get worse in my opinion. Developed country .. my a***

[stuandchris]

This thread goes down the list, don't you people get this?

Whilst you are talking about where do you come from and where can I can I get I space heater the fact is the most important things are going over your heads.

Until you get your comfey heads out of your <deleted> this is going to get worse.

The it isn't me is a crock of sh^t until it is you. Stop sitting on your comfey fat <deleted> and do something about it.

If you are too lazy then p2p me with complaints and I will.

After all it is better to try and do something to address a problem rather than moan and do sod all

[ade100]

This thread goes down the list, don't you people get this?

Whilst you are talking about where do you come from and where can I can I get I space heater the fact is the most important things are going over your heads.

Until you get your comfey heads out of your <deleted> this is going to get worse.

The it isn't me is a crock of sh^t until it is you. Stop sitting on your comfey fat <deleted> and do something about it.

If you are too lazy then p2p me with complaints and I will.

After all it is better to try and do something to address a problem rather than moan and do sod all

OP here. Thanks for this input and to everyone else who has contributed.

To the point of doing something about the dangers and the violence, I agree the situtation seems to be getting worse and something should be done.

Personally I was going to invest a good chunk of my savings in Phuket but have decided against it as the place is too unstable. Now I prefer to rent than to spend my hard earned money here. If people like me think this way, it will have an impact. Other than that, I am at a loss as to know what to do.

We have no vote here, the police and local government are probably not sympathetic and we have to be careful because "defaming Thailand" is, I understand, a very serious offence.

Personally I wish I could sit on my "comfey fat arse" but the truth is while I love Phuket it also really scares me. I really don't know if I could settle and raise a family here.

But any suggestions you have on positive action would be great to hear.

[retirednavyman]

When I was stationed in the Philippines during the 70s, 80s and a portion of the 90s we incorporated the following precautions:

1. We always travelled down well-lit streets (when there wasn't a power outage :-)).

2. Whenever possible we would utilize the buddy-system.

3. Always use common sense, if we saw trouble, do your very best to avoid it.

4. Stay away from unsavory characters, not always easy to do since everyone smiles at you and may have ulterior motives

I was stationed there off and on for about 8 years, learned how to speak the Tagalog language fluently and always treated people with respect. After all, US Navy personnel are considered ambassadors in uniform and I always lived up to that image.

Good luck

[mrsouza]

This is disturbing.

Friends of mine, a Swedish couple, was brutally robbed early Wednesday morning in Patong (Feb 27). They've been to Safari and went to a nearby ATM to take out some money. After the money was withdrawn, 2 Thai males approached them and asked them to hand over the cash. At first they refused, then another 5 Thai males joined in. One pulled up a shotgun and pointed it at the Swedish couple. Another guy pulled out a knife and held it close against the Swedish man's stomach.

The robbers got away with all the money, wallets and watches. Then they started to beat up the Swedish male. The couple panicked and started to run. Luckily they got away unharmed (other than a few bruises from the beating).

The Swedish couple called the Tourist Police (1155), but to no avail. Seemed liked the police did not understand the seriousness of the situation, or they simply did not understand English. The choice is yours.

This is the first time I ever heard of a stickup robbery in Patong after living in Phuket for 13 years. Except, of course, for a few katoeys ripping gold chains from each other and other minor stuff. I have pushed the couple to contact the media regarding this, I am not sure they want the hassle.