Stop Slagging Off The Back Packers

[yoksot]

I have been reading very bad comments regarding the back packers who used to come here in their droves, unfortunately they returned to their home countries and told everyone how beautiful Samui "WAS" I did the same. But lets not blame them for what this Island has now turned into. They truely loved Samui and can not be held responsible for the replacing of coconuts with concrete. in fact they did very little damage to the Island and its roads, the greedy money lusting property developers must take the responsabilty for all that and the need for HEAVY construction vehicles on this paradise Island. You know who you are but stop looking down on Backpackers they did nothing wrong their only crime was to come here and enjoy it, not rape it of its beauty.

Food for Thought

The Eye of Lamai

[Samui Coconut]

I have been reading very bad comments regarding the back packers who used to come here in their droves, unfortunately they returned to their home countries and told everyone how beautiful Samui "WAS" I did the same. But lets not blame them for what this Island has now turned into. They truely loved Samui and can not be held responsible for the replacing of coconuts with concrete. in fact they did very little damage to the Island and its roads, the greedy money lusting property developers must take the responsabilty for all that and the need for HEAVY construction vehicles on this paradise Island. You know who you are but stop looking down on Backpackers they did nothing wrong their only crime was to come here and enjoy it, not rape it of its beauty.

Food for Thought

The Eye of Lamai

Bad day today ?

[Cuban]

Backpackers they did nothing wrong their only crime was to come here and enjoy it,

Some rich men came and raped the land,

Nobody caught 'em

Put up a bunch of ugly boxes, and Jesus,

people bought 'em

And they called it paradise

The place to be

They watched the hazy sun, sinking in the sea

...

We satifsy our endless needs and

justify our bloody deeds,

in the name of destiny and in the name

of God

And you can see them there,

On Sunday morning

Stand up and sing about

What it's like up there

They call it paradise

I don't know why

You call someplace paradise,

kiss it goodbye

Would you be talking about the backpackers that prefer a Starbucks while checking their email and complain when they can't get a mobile telephone signal. Or maybe the backpackers that can be seen tramping through temples with their nice Nike trainers made in a sweat shop in China or Mexico? Surely not the backpackers that fly on those nasty airplanes adding to global warming.

Just by visiting any location you add to it's demise.

Such as the back packers visiting Koh Phi Phi Leh.

[Mark Wolfe]

I think once the cork is out of the bottle the genie must follow.

Think of it like this: Inside the bottle is a wonderment, but to appreciate it fully, you need to access it -- be hands on with it, but in doing so, you change the nature of the wonderment. Now the bottle is just a bottle, albeit pretty and "special," but the magic of being "unspoiled," is gone.

Enjoy what you can while you can. Things are ever-changing and even if you think a place has lost its natural beauty, in 20 years you will look back and remember the good old days when things were better.

I remember Angkor Wat and its environs when I was there in 1993. Or Luang Prabang in 1996. I knew things were going to change and they have. It's part of the evolution of tourism and the encroachment of humans into places that were before too remote or uncomfortable to motivate armchair travelers.

If it weren't for the "backpackers" would Samui still be a local backwater? Of course not. Someone would have come regardless, and more and more until you sit in Tesco among the coconut trees and eat a slice of pizza and you may ask yourself

How do I work this?

And you may ask yourself

Where is that large automobile?

And you may tell yourself

This is not my beautiful house!

And you may tell yourself

This is not my beautiful wife!

Edited February 15, 2008 by Mark Wolfe

[sbk]

Just by visiting any location you add to it's demise.

I guess your solution is that everybody should stay home then???

[MSingh]

I have been reading very bad comments regarding the back packers who used to come here in their droves, unfortunately they returned to their home countries and told everyone how beautiful Samui "WAS" I did the same. But lets not blame them for what this Island has now turned into. They truely loved Samui and can not be held responsible for the replacing of coconuts with concrete. in fact they did very little damage to the Island and its roads, the greedy money lusting property developers must take the responsabilty for all that and the need for HEAVY construction vehicles on this paradise Island. You know who you are but stop looking down on Backpackers they did nothing wrong their only crime was to come here and enjoy it, not rape it of its beauty.

Food for Thought

The Eye of Lamai

How about the greedy Land Owners who sold their Land in the first place or do they get overlooked because it is " their " Island ??

Or did they just think they were getting money for nothing & people would part with thousands of $$$ yet leave the Land & Island as it is ??

You never know..

[sayitaintso]

I have been reading very bad comments regarding the back packers who used to come here in their droves, unfortunately they returned to their home countries and told everyone how beautiful Samui "WAS" I did the same. But lets not blame them for what this Island has now turned into. They truely loved Samui and can not be held responsible for the replacing of coconuts with concrete. in fact they did very little damage to the Island and its roads, the greedy money lusting property developers must take the responsabilty for all that and the need for HEAVY construction vehicles on this paradise Island. You know who you are but stop looking down on Backpackers they did nothing wrong their only crime was to come here and enjoy it, not rape it of its beauty.

Food for Thought

The Eye of Lamai

i, for one, place the blame for all that is now bad on samui squarely on the shoulders of the backpackers.

backpackers are a blight, an eyesore, an odoriferous offense to all sensible hard working people and i hope they never come back to samui.

good riddance backpackers!

[britmaveric]

Where's Taxexile? - expect he has smth to say here!!

[taxexile]

coming to a khaw san road - surrathani -ferry to koh samui only 250baht bus seat near you soon.

Edited February 15, 2008 by taxexile

[sbk]

From South Africa:

Backpacking and youth travel is big business and makes a significant contribution to the global tourism economy. According to the World Youth Student and Educational Travel Confederation, young travellers aged 16-24 are the travel industry’s fastest growing segment. They represent over 20% of all international visitors and generate over 100 Billion US Dollars each year. In Australia - one of South Africa’s main competitor destinations – for example, backpacker and youth travellers spend in the region of AUS $ 3 Billion each year. This roughly equates to some R18 Billion in economic contribution.

South Africa receives about 90 000 backpacker and youth travellers each year. These travellers contribute over R900 million annually in direct spend to the economy. Despite their average daily spend being less than that of many other tourists, their total trip spend is on a par, and sometimes more, because of their longer length of stay. International backpackers to South Africa stay an average of 42 days, and typically visit Gauteng, Western Cape, Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Mpumalanga provinces. Their interest in rural areas and authentic experiences directly benefits certain of the country’s poorer regions and communities. A case in point is the Wild Coast where the backpacking industry has already made a significant contribution to local economic development.

Source: Dept of trade and industry, South Africa

From Australia:

Backpackers contribute $2.3billion to the Australian economy each year, 20 percent of all international tourism expenditure. The average expenditure per international backpacker visit is $4900, double that of non-backpacker visitors. Backpackers are often very well travelled globally and their experiences in Victoria and Australia will be compared with their backpacking experiences in other countries.

[mssabai]

I think that there is a real difference between the backpackers of today and the backpackers of yesteryear who first 'discovered' places like Samui. The olden times backpackers were pioneers, bare footed adventurists happy to live on a diet of rice and water to enable them to find that one more unspoilt jewel. The people who set off on these kinds of persuits tended to be 'rebels' to some degree of a definite leftist, hippy mentality. Often their aims were to leave the place exactly as they had found it, to interact with the local people as sensitively as possible to ensure that they gained an understanding of their culture without contributing to it's demise and to generally experience the world in all it's wonder, leaving just their footprints in the sand behind.

The yuppie, gap year backpackers of today can never be compared to these free spirited souls I don't think. The 'Gap Year' experience is now just another step on the ladder for middle class students to take before following the path of inevitability set out before them (uni, accountancy qualifications, top dollar job, 2.4 kids, house in Surrey...or similar). Many of these kids have no interest in the place they are going, other than ensuring that there is a constant supply of Friends, cheap booze and easily available sex. If all of this could be provided in Bognor Regis, along with a constant supply of sunshine, I am sure they wouldn't even think to leave. Often these types of travelers have little respect for the cultures they are experiencing, the history of the country or their impact on the environment and people they come across. South East asia blurs into one where Khmer and Tai cultures are interchangeable, topless sunbathing is accepted everywhere and people who don't understand your requests for a ham sandwich are just plain dumb. The experience leaves them with nothing more than the ability to sleep overnight on a bus and a dent in Mummy and Daddy's pocket.

Of course I am generalizing - I have met many many wonderful people here who do not behave in this way, just as I am sure that of the early travelers there were a fair amount of boorish, colonialist types. I was one of these yuppie gap year travelers, and now some would say I am one of those contributing to the over-development and commercialization of a beautiful island. However I still like to think that in my heart I hold something of the spirit of those early pioneers and hope in a small way to use this for good in both my business and personal relationships here. I think that's all any of us can do really, appreciate the natural beauty and local cultures and do our best to try and steer development to optimize the retention of both these things.

Good topic!

[Boo]

As with everyone one this planet, the backpackers have evolved with time. The backpackers of 30 years ago most likely would have used mobiles, ipods & welcomed getting a decent bit of grub had they had the chance & was part of thei nomrla day to day life before hitting the road, yes they may have laughed & valued their expereinces travelling when the world was more closed but that was the time then would they have taken the options of today, who knows but more than likely a lot would have imo. So to slag off the bp's of today or even try to compare them to the ones 30 years ago is just impossible really as they have nochance now to do it like in olden days, there is no unspoiled places anymore & I have yet to go anywhere I couldn't get a mobile signal or some local trying to get me to stay at a guesthouse with hot water & email

[mssabai]

As with everyone one this planet, the backpackers have evolved with time. The backpackers of 30 years ago most likely would have used mobiles, ipods & welcomed getting a decent bit of grub had they had the chance & was part of thei nomrla day to day life before hitting the road, yes they may have laughed & valued their expereinces travelling when the world was more closed but that was the time then would they have taken the options of today, who knows but more than likely a lot would have imo. So to slag off the bp's of today or even try to compare them to the ones 30 years ago is just impossible really as they have nochance now to do it like in olden days, there is no unspoiled places anymore & I have yet to go anywhere I couldn't get a mobile signal or some local trying to get me to stay at a guesthouse with hot water & email

Totally agree that it is evolution, but as with many modern evolutions in the wake of globalisation, it is a negative one. Nothing wrong with decent food ipods and the like, however all those things contribute to the strange bubble like existence which means backpackers today are never really interacting with the place they are in...merely floating through it leaving rubbish and loose morals in their wake.

There are not many places untouched by western influence, however their are definitely still some unspoiled places (sans phone reception, hot water, email etc) that will remain so until the ant like march of the gap years includes them in their itinerary. The people who do make it to these places are usually far more interesting and sensitive to their environs than the hoards that make it to Had Rin and Phi Phi etc etc and whose requirements involve indedikit movie bars, multiple 7-11s and nightly parties.

[Boo]

There are not many places untouched by western influence, however their are definitely still some unspoiled places (sans phone reception, hot water, email etc) that will remain so until the ant like march of the gap years includes them in their itinerary

but thats the point, the gap years are the exact same (but with technology) as the interpid free spirits of yesteryear, without those people discoverin KPG, it wouldn't be the place today to get wifi or a decent smoothie (although phone lines are still an issue ) & in 20 years the places the gap years are discovering now will be just like Chaweng & Haad-rin too. Sad but true

[mssabai]

There are not many places untouched by western influence, however their are definitely still some unspoiled places (sans phone reception, hot water, email etc) that will remain so until the ant like march of the gap years includes them in their itinerary

but thats the point, the gap years are the exact same (but with technology) as the interpid free spirits of yesteryear, without those people discoverin KPG, it wouldn't be the place today to get wifi or a decent smoothie (although phone lines are still an issue ) & in 20 years the places the gap years are discovering now will be just like Chaweng & Haad-rin too. Sad but true

But I really don't think they are the same as the first travellers. Those people were mould breakers, what they were doing was not condoned by their families mostly - they were seen as hippy drop outs and were rebelling against the norm. They were also going into the unknown, there was no safety net. There are not a lot of people who could do this and certainly the droves that arrive now to tick their gap year box are neither mould breakers, nor are they rebels. In fact you seem to be more of a rebel now if you choose not to take a gap year!

There are still people traveling today with this same kind of spirit as those first travelers. They often aren't gap year students, they are often hard core travelers, who have almost dropped out of life in their home countries. These are the people who still find those unspoilt gems. The sad thing is that once enough of these kinds of people find somewhere, slowly the gap year itinerary moves to encompass it and then very quickly the magic is lost. Take Vang Vieng for a recent example. Such is the evolution of traveling...

[sbk]

I met a few of those intrepid free spirit travellers here on Koh Phangan when I first arrived. As far as their interaction with locals was concerned it was "where can I buy some weed" "where can I get some magic mushrooms". Rosy colored glasses there mssabai. They left rubbish behind too.

[beamer]

SBK - Agree

And BP's today still ask for the same thing

[HomeisThai]

I would have thought it was the people on 2 week holidays wanting to stay in luxury hotels, wanting the best food, their bags carried everywhere, nice air con cars to be driven around in and to literally just sit and bake and get massages on the beach, that would have contributed more to the way Samui has gone?

Ive backpacked as have many I have known, we don't always stay in the cheapest basic places but have and tend to stay in low- middle of the range places, surely choosing to do this is keeping more of the old Samui going. Its the people who come here but wanting to stay in 5 star establishments that are creating the ever increasing demand for more westernised society in Thailand.

The same as Sri Lanka when I went, the more hippy place of Hikkaduwa had backpackers but kept its roots more then say Unawatuna which was slowly turning into a holiday destination for families and couples, which meant they had to get faster internet, more westerised food etc etc.

Most backpackers go prepared to have slow internet connections and stay in places with no air con, but people/families on 2 weeks holidays don't want that and I think they are more to blame for the way Thailand is going.

I was actually really suprised by the amount of families on Koh Phangan in January when I went back, compared to none when I was first there in 2004. I personally think this is due to more expensive Hotels being built, The Drop in Hotel was almost completed when I left before and now its thriving and I think there are more like this, which is bringing families and couples, which will mean more people in 'holidays' which will mean Phangan losing its rustic charm and becoming *another* bloody place where eventually it will just be dotted with 5 star hotels and the small business will lose out and have to move or look elsewhere for income.

[khunandy]

i, for one, place the blame for all that is now bad on samui squarely on the shoulders of the backpackers.

backpackers are a blight, an eyesore, an odoriferous offense to all sensible hard working people and i hope they never come back to samui.

good riddance backpackers!

What, no skinny little white guys with dread locks and tribal tattoos? I just cant inagine the place without those little fellas who dont know whether they want to be rastafarians or celtic warriors.

[koheesti]

Just got done watching "The Beach" again. What a bunch of losers. At least they came across better than in the book.

[RAZZELL]

Down with backpackers!

Up with flashpackers!

RAZZ

[bkkvillan]

lets not be snobs towards todays backpackers. they're on a a trip that will always be special to them. they know no more than the samui they visit. most are genuine individuals doing something that they'll probably never do again. the package mob are a totally different story.

[geronimo]

Just by visiting any location you add to it's demise.

I guess your solution is that everybody should stay home then???

I think he's saying there is no solution

[Mark Wolfe]

The olden times backpackers were pioneers, bare footed adventurists happy to live on a diet of rice and water to enable them to find that one more unspoilt jewel.

What a fanciful load of crap.

I was first backpacking 25 years ago and the spirit is the same. Just the trappings are different. Happy to live on rice and water? Yeah, if someone stole all your money, maybe.

Barefoot adventurists? Yeah (again), like we all sat around signing Kumbaya, while hugging a tree wishing we were in our own Raiders of the Lost Ark...

Edited February 16, 2008 by Mark Wolfe

[Samuian]

Totally agree that it is evolution, but as with many modern evolutions in the wake of globalisation, it is a negative one. Nothing wrong with decent food ipods and the like, however all those things contribute to the strange bubble like existence which means backpackers today are never really interacting with the place they are in...merely floating through it leaving rubbish and loose morals in their wake.

There are not many places untouched by western influence, however their are definitely still some unspoiled places (sans phone reception, hot water, email etc) that will remain so until the ant like march of the gap years includes them in their itinerary. The people who do make it to these places are usually far more interesting and sensitive to their environs than the hoards that make it to Had Rin and Phi Phi etc etc and whose requirements involve indedikit movie bars, multiple 7-11s and nightly parties.

I traveled SEA, especially India, Kashmir, Nepal, Sri Lanka in the 1970 and Eighties a couple of famous writers did this a century BEFORE this, I NEVER missed anything of what is on the consumer market of today!

Instead of isolating myself with an ipod/mp3 player, from the world around me, I visited local concerts, events, participated with the locals on events and festivals...mixed with the crowds, shared peoples housing... traveled on local buses, trains without much of todays comfort, walked the Himalayas....I did live pretty well without Apple, Microsoft, Baskin Robbins, McDonalds, Starbucks and Irish Theme Pubs.... well things change and much has undoubtedly changed due to the DEMANDS of the travelers!

But what to do? there is not much the traveler or one singled out group can do... it happens, just as there are Airplanes, i phones, the www. e-books, virtual worlds, the Space Shuttle... name it... my Grandmother wouldn't believe, how the world has changed... in her days it was an incredible experience to travel by train... and that wasn't fast those days...

things change... nothing will be the same.... that is what we will have to come to terms with, there is NOBODY and no group out there who alone is to be blamed for it - if so we ALL are more or less responsible - but we won't be taken in for that - so what?

Well only one thing: the "smart kids" raving on those beaches and elsewhere would be well advised to "clean up their sh.t" BEFORE leaving to the next party... this is maybe one first step in the right direction.....

my 2 Cents..

[Carnwadrick]

My first words ever on any forum but this one really got me..62 years old next week..backpacker for 46 of those years, still strapping on the pack whenever I can. Gap Yuppies or whatever any kid who goes off to see the world on the cheap is a brave soul in my mind, my 18 year old neice and her friend took off from Scotland a couple of months ago on the few pounds they were able to save up working nights in cafes.they should be in Samui in a few weeks after stopping off to see the old traveler in US then traveling to Fiji, Aus & NZ , Bali and Malayasia..going to Samui cause I recommended they go see my wife...met her after a group of young backpackers in Peru in 2003 told me I was missing the best experience ever if I didn't go to Thailand and especially Samui, best advice I ever received...enjoy the island

[Mark Wolfe]

any kid who goes off to see the world on the cheap is a brave soul in my mind

I tend to disagree with that.

There was a time before the information avalanches (Lonely Planet, etal) and the well-beaten tourist trails.

There was a time when you had to figure out stuff on your own, like where to stay and how to get that ticket at the local bus station, and so on.

Today, travel around the world has been smoothed to the point that going just about anywhere is a breeze. Just about anywhere you go now you are not the intrepid traveler, you are traveler number 5 million and things are pretty cut and dried.

This is both a good thing and a bad one. Good in that it's easy; bad in that the "adventure" is slowing being leached out of independent travel.

[Samuian]

The most noteable point of Information in those days - leaving Europe overland to India was "The Pudding Shop" in Istanbul/Turkey!

there, on an incredible Pin wall, you could figure out whether the Khyber Pass was closed, which City to book to cross the Pakistani/Indian Border... where to stay in Teheran/Kabul/Kandahar/Herat/Islamabad/Karatschi.... "those were the days my friend...." long before Jo Cummins and Lonely Planet Guides... and the like, it WAS pure Adventure! There were no proper maps, about trekking routes in Nepal...only info from the pin walls in Pig Streets Pie Shops in Kathmandu....Ladakh was "Off the Planet", so was Mustang... ahh well...there were times hardly anybody knew what "Goa" was..

Edited February 18, 2008 by Samuian

[mssabai]

The most noteable point of Information in those days - leaving Europe overland to India was "The Pudding Shop" in Istanbul/Turkey!

there, on an incredible Pin wall, you could figure out whether the Khyber Pass was closed, which City to book to cross the Pakistani/Indian Border... where to stay in Teheran/Kabul/Kandahar/Herat/Islamabad/Karatschi.... "those were the days my friend...." long before Jo Cummins and Lonely Planet Guides... and the like, it WAS pure Adventure! There were no proper maps, about trekking routes in Nepal...only info from the pin walls in Pig Streets Pie Shops in Kathmandu....Ladakh was "Off the Planet", so was Mustang... ahh well...there were times hardly anybody knew what "Goa" was..

*sigh* I would love to have donned my rose tinted glasses and taken a trip like that.

[mssabai]

The most noteable point of Information in those days - leaving Europe overland to India was "The Pudding Shop" in Istanbul/Turkey!

there, on an incredible Pin wall, you could figure out whether the Khyber Pass was closed, which City to book to cross the Pakistani/Indian Border... where to stay in Teheran/Kabul/Kandahar/Herat/Islamabad/Karatschi.... "those were the days my friend...." long before Jo Cummins and Lonely Planet Guides... and the like, it WAS pure Adventure! There were no proper maps, about trekking routes in Nepal...only info from the pin walls in Pig Streets Pie Shops in Kathmandu....Ladakh was "Off the Planet", so was Mustang... ahh well...there were times hardly anybody knew what "Goa" was..

*sigh* I would love to have donned my rose tinted glasses and taken a trip like that.