Property Buying Options

[farangmal]

I'm trying to find out exactly what options I have if I want to buy land and a house in Thailand.

I am Married to a Thai National and have two children. One born in Thailand and one in the Uk.

I know about the 30 year land lease scheme. I know about the dodgy company method. I also know I can buy in my Wifes name but I'm reluctant to go down that path as I know I can't inherit it or I will have so long to sell it if something happened to her. And of course what's to stop them changing the Law again in the future to stop Thais Married to farangs owning property!

Can I buy in my child/children's name?

If so are they the only ones who can sell when they become of age?

How good is the USUFRUCT agreement. Does it really work?

Could I leave the property to the children in a will or can you only will to Adults in Thailand?

Basically I'm trying to get all the facts and current Law together to make the right decision when we buy.

[ade100]

IMHO there is no good way for foreigners to buy land in Thailand and to protect their investment. My advice is to use your money to buy property in another country, let it out and use the money you make from it to pay your rent in Thailand.

BTW you might want to have this moved to the Real Estate forum.

[ProThaiExpat]

There is no evidence yet presented that indicates usurfucts don't work. Same with 30 year lease. Company route is problematic as various governments attempt to close the loophole regarding companies dominated by falang. Clearly, some will be grandfathered in, so make your choice.

Edited February 16, 2008 by ProThaiExpat

[farangmal]

IMHO there is no good way for foreigners to buy land in Thailand and to protect their investment. My advice is to use your money to buy property in another country, let it out and use the money you make from it to pay your rent in Thailand.

BTW you might want to have this moved to the Real Estate forum.

I have done that. I own properties in the Uk but finding it hard to let because of Government changes and trying to find good tenants is like winning the lottery.

IMO after eight years of letting where I am the market has dried up completely. And while they are empty the Landlord gets hammered with Council tax as well.

Edited February 16, 2008 by farangmal

[farangmal]

There is no evidence yet presented that indicates usurfucts don't work. Same with 30 year lease. Company route is problematic as various governments attempt to close the loophole regarding companies dominated by falang. Clearly, some will be grandfathered in, so make your choice.

What is the evidence that USUFRUCTS DO work?

What about buying in my Childrens name/s

[ProThaiExpat]

There are many usurfucts in effect at the present time in Thailand, held by falang, and to date, no reports that they are not effective. Lawyers look to court cases ,in which a particular form of possession is disallowed and then use that as a guide.

You cannot prove a negative, so until we see or hear of a usurfuct not working, since it is the law of the land, we must rely on the status quo. Clearly, if you are happy with a rental, that is the best option.

[Heng]

Buying in your kid's name (this is assuming they are of legal age) is viable, as long as you trust them. Then again, so is buying in your wife's name.

[naka]

There are no good options. Sell house and buy bonds, then rent in Thailand.

Naka

[haybilly]

Buying in your kid's name (this is assuming they are of legal age) is viable, as long as you trust them. Then again, so is buying in your wife's name.

Exactly--the children should be of legal age, which I think means they should be of the age when they have their own ID card--I did try to do something similar using my daughter, who was not of ID card-holding age and my solicitor warned that all decisions about 'said' property purchase would have to be made by a court appointed representative- for my daughter, and he warned that this could well take ages to sort out-I deferred, for expediency--whats wrong with buying in the missus' name and having a good contract with her? Maybe I'm missing something??

Edited February 16, 2008 by haybilly

[howtoescape]

I have done that. I own properties in the Uk but finding it hard to let because of Government changes and trying to find good tenants is like winning the lottery.

IMO after eight years of letting where I am the market has dried up completely. And while they are empty the Landlord gets hammered with Council tax as well.

Good to here a buy2let investor falling on hard times, its one of a few factors that makes property unaffordable for the rest of us.

[Rinrada]

Everyone here in Blighty has been complaining for years that house prices are toooo HIGH and young couples ,sinle professionals,key workers..etc.cant get onto the housing market.............

Now the whole thing has bombed and you can pick up a cheap 1 bed flat for about £250K.....and they are still complaining.......confusing...init.

In my area at least ( N L ) the old rental scene is still doing reasonably well with a couple of neighbours letting their 2 B Flats for £950 month....

On the other hand the guy 2 doors up has just dropped the selling price of his gaff from £495K...to 449 K and no takers ....I would suggest it could go for as little as £399k......Bargain........but MK Jai...

[siam-i-am]

There is no evidence yet presented that indicates usurfucts don't work. Same with 30 year lease. Company route is problematic as various governments attempt to close the loophole regarding companies dominated by falang. Clearly, some will be grandfathered in, so make your choice.

What is the evidence that USUFRUCTS DO work?

What about buying in my Childrens name/s

What is a 'Usufruct'?

[farangmal]

Buying in your kid's name (this is assuming they are of legal age) is viable, as long as you trust them. Then again, so is buying in your wife's name.

Exactly--the children should be of legal age, which I think means they should be of the age when they have their own ID card--I did try to do something similar using my daughter, who was not of ID card-holding age and my solicitor warned that all decisions about 'said' property purchase would have to be made by a court appointed representative- for my daughter, and he warned that this could well take ages to sort out-I deferred, for expediency--whats wrong with buying in the missus' name and having a good contract with her? Maybe I'm missing something??

Interesting. My Wife phoned a Bangkok Law office today (they advertise on this site) and they told her we can buy for the children no matter how old they are.

But one proviso was they must be registered on a Thai housepaper.

So who's right...you guys or them!

No, your not missing nothing but Thailand being Thailand and Thai Ladies being the most faithful loving creatures on this Planet

I would rather buy in my kids name so I KNOW they are getting something in the future.

Edited February 16, 2008 by farangmal

[ProThaiExpat]

A usufruct is the common law version of a life estate. Coming out of civil code countries, it in effect gives a right of possession for ones life. Thus while a 30 year lease is good only for that length of time in Thailand, a usufruct extends the lease period until the person in possession dies. I don't know if "abandonment" of possession changes that.

[Heng]

Buying in your kid's name (this is assuming they are of legal age) is viable, as long as you trust them. Then again, so is buying in your wife's name.

Exactly--the children should be of legal age, which I think means they should be of the age when they have their own ID card--I did try to do something similar using my daughter, who was not of ID card-holding age and my solicitor warned that all decisions about 'said' property purchase would have to be made by a court appointed representative- for my daughter, and he warned that this could well take ages to sort out-I deferred, for expediency--whats wrong with buying in the missus' name and having a good contract with her? Maybe I'm missing something??

Interesting. My Wife phoned a Bangkok Law office today (they advertise on this site) and they told her we can buy for the children no matter how old they are.

But one proviso was they must be registered on a Thai housepaper.

I think the question that should be asked is: "can the children then decide to sell the property (no matter how old they are)?" The answer, I'd imagine would be no, since they are not of legal age.

The legal guardian in terms of management of the property (which would be the Thai parent and not the farang parent) would be the one person able to make that decision. I've yet to consult an attorney myself, but that's been the consensus of land department officials I've discussed this with, as me and my wife have purchased property for some of our nieces and nephews (who have less than 'inheritance and foundation-to-build-on for the next generation' minded parents), nothing extravagant, typically just one shophouse each for them to at least have a home and a shop to start their lives with. So what we've done instead is just buy in our own names and let the kid in question know that this is theirs if they meet the stipulated goals we set for them (when you finish your undergrad degree, you can start using the building as an income generator... rent it out, open a shop, whatever... when you finish your masters or when you're say 35 -and your deadbeat parents are hopefully dead-, we'll transfer the property to you if we deem you responsible enough...).

It'd be interesting to hear what the lawyer would say then. ("um, ehm... no one can sell it." "um, ehm... you can have our law firm own the property for you for a yearly fee... who are you going to trust if you don't trust your lawyer?")

There is no trust law yet here in Thailand (which would save a lot of folks quite a bit of hassle, Thai-Thai couples included), and the whole point, I assume, of buying in your kid's name would be to circumvent the local parent(s).

[farangmal]

Buying in your kid's name (this is assuming they are of legal age) is viable, as long as you trust them. Then again, so is buying in your wife's name.

Exactly--the children should be of legal age, which I think means they should be of the age when they have their own ID card--I did try to do something similar using my daughter, who was not of ID card-holding age and my solicitor warned that all decisions about 'said' property purchase would have to be made by a court appointed representative- for my daughter, and he warned that this could well take ages to sort out-I deferred, for expediency--whats wrong with buying in the missus' name and having a good contract with her? Maybe I'm missing something??

Interesting. My Wife phoned a Bangkok Law office today (they advertise on this site) and they told her we can buy for the children no matter how old they are.

But one proviso was they must be registered on a Thai housepaper.

I think the question that should be asked is: "can the children then decide to sell the property (no matter how old they are)?" The answer, I'd imagine would be no, since they are not of legal age.

The legal guardian in terms of management of the property (which would be the Thai parent and not the farang parent) would be the one person able to make that decision. I've yet to consult an attorney myself, but that's been the consensus of land department officials I've discussed this with, as me and my wife have purchased property for some of our nieces and nephews (who have less than 'inheritance and foundation-to-build-on for the next generation' minded parents), nothing extravagant, typically just one shophouse each for them to at least have a home and a shop to start their lives with. So what we've done instead is just buy in our own names and let the kid in question know that this is theirs if they meet the stipulated goals we set for them (when you finish your undergrad degree, you can start using the building as an income generator... rent it out, open a shop, whatever... when you finish your masters or when you're say 35 -and your deadbeat parents are hopefully dead-, we'll transfer the property to you if we deem you responsible enough...).

It'd be interesting to hear what the lawyer would say then. ("um, ehm... no one can sell it." "um, ehm... you can have our law firm own the property for you for a yearly fee... who are you going to trust if you don't trust your lawyer?")

There is no trust law yet here in Thailand (which would save a lot of folks quite a bit of hassle, Thai-Thai couples included), and the whole point, I assume, of buying in your kid's name would be to circumvent the local parent(s).

I guess I'm quite lucky that way (not so my Wife) but She has no Parents living, no Brothers or Sisters or very close relatives in Thailand.

I just wanted to ENSURE my children when they become of age (2 and a half and 9 Months now) would have something in Thailand to call their own.

I could buy in my Wifes name and do a USUFRUCT agreement but what happens if say my Wife were to die? It's very unlikely but could the children become the legal owners? I know the Thai Government would give me a year to sell it and that would probably be at a fraction of the value if we couldn't 'will' it to our kids?

As my Wife says - in 25 years she got nothing from Thailand why should they gain from us!

I want to cover all bases so whatever happened to us our offspring would have property in Thailand.

Edited February 17, 2008 by farangmal