Committment Ceremony..?

[ChrisP]

Has anyone ever heard of a Committment Ceremony or anything similar been done for guys in Thailand...?

I don't mean anything legally recognised by the Govt, just an "unofficial-but-meaningful-ceremony" done with a Priest or other person held in high esteem...

Cheers!

ChriP

[Ijustwannateach]

I've heard of village wedding between gays, or a straight and a kathoey- but not as a rule, and I don't know the details. Would be interested if anyone else has heard/seen anything?

[Deadcert]

Just don't mention it to Tornado otherwise I am sure he will have something negative to say about it

[astral]

I am not sure you will find anyone to do it.

Thai's prefer not to think about such relationships, though they are tolerated. I think a ceremony as you are suggesting will be too much in the face, and therefore not really acceptable.

Good luck anyway.

[Ice Treasure]

I am not sure you will find anyone to do it.

Thai's prefer not to think about such relationships, though they are tolerated.  I think a ceremony as you are suggesting will be too much in the face, and therefore not really acceptable.

Good luck anyway.

Someone in another thread said you ask a question, you get those that know saying what they know, then you get uninformed guesswork, then you add to that a bit of over generalisation.

Fact: Contact Femme Fatale in Chiang Mai.. they have a civil celebrant. Try www.chiangmaigirls.com.

Fact: Thai people in the country, often (not not generally), have absolutely zero problem with a same sex village commitment. (Yes I did, almost 10 years ago). Depends on the family and the village Ajarn. Ask them.

Facts:

If you want a civil ceremony, for foreigners, ask at Femme fatale.

If you want a village recognition of your relationship with a Thai partner, ask the parents and the grandmother and they will ask the Ajarn.

Be prepared to offer wedding money, which in all likelihood will come back in most part. Your partner will tell you if that is appropriate.

Astral you are likely a lovely chap... but you ask as well.

[RamdomChances]

I am not sure you will find anyone to do it.

Thai's prefer not to think about such relationships, though they are tolerated.  I think a ceremony as you are suggesting will be too much in the face, and therefore not really acceptable.

Good luck anyway.

Someone in another thread said you ask a question, you get those that know saying what they know, then you get uninformed guesswork, then you add to that a bit of over generalisation.

Fact: Contact Femme Fatale in Chiang Mai.. they have a civil celebrant. Try www.chiangmaigirls.com.

Fact: Thai people in the country, often (not not generally), have absolutely zero problem with a same sex village commitment. (Yes I did, almost 10 years ago). Depends on the family and the village Ajarn. Ask them.

Facts:

If you want a civil ceremony, for foreigners, ask at Femme fatale.

If you want a village recognition of your relationship with a Thai partner, ask the parents and the grandmother and they will ask the Ajarn.

Be prepared to offer wedding money, which in all likelihood will come back in most part. Your partner will tell you if that is appropriate.

Astral you are likely a lovely chap... but you ask as well.

Ice Treasure what are you talking about, Astral was pretty spot on.

While same sex relationships are no problem here and even living together as a couple is no prob, for most Thai families a "gay" wedding with all the guests and family would be far to much in your face.

There is no leagal way to get married to someone of the same sex in thailand. If you want a religious blessing all you have to do is find a monk to carry it out (well 7 actually)

Whats all this about asking the Ajarn, what has the local teacher got to do with it??

even if you asked the poyai ban (head man) its also nothing to do with him. Its just down to family, if they dont approve and you can find the monks prepared to do it you can have a blessing anyway.

Why on earth would you have to offer sin sot "wedding money" as usually the grooms family pay that. Basicaly there is no tradition for same sex wedding cerimonies in thailand, butther is also no problem living together as a couple either

Oh none of the above are "facts" jus me saying what I know, You may know different.

Cheers RC

[thomasma]

I think the "Ajarn" mentioned was refered to senior monk of the village's temple.

[RamdomChances]

Do you mean "jao a wad" never hear him called "ajarn" before not to say people dont just i've never heard it.

[ProThaiExpat]

I saw a picture of one last year, can't remember in what magazine it was in. Both men dressed in traditional Thai costume, monk, etc. My Thai says he knows of them being performed all th time, not legal of course.

Of future interest, is when the first U.S. legally married men come to Thailand and present their U.S. legal marriage certificate to an immigration official and ask him to recognize it as he routinely does with men and women. I wouldn't be surpirsed if they say mai pen rai and give you the 400K Baht supporting a Thai wife classification.

[ChrisP]

Many thanks for all the replies.. (even if conflicting.. )

We do understand that there's currently no Thai "tradition" for a same-sex committment ceremony.. but maybe we should start one! If Thai's are so "gay-friendly" then I don't see that it would be a problem for them... especially the younger Westernized ones.

We're certainly not expecting anything to be "legal"... the idea is just to do something meaningful and significant in public for the families.

The family approves... the guy really wants to do something significant.. but is not Buddhist.. (Roman Catholic), and we know the RC church will not do anything to help.

It would be in BKK, by the way... not a village.

ChrisP

Edited September 21, 2004 by ChrisP

[RamdomChances]

Best of luck Chris go for it if it makes you happy.

My wifes auntie is a lesbian, her and her partner live with us and work on the farm, I've often asked why they dont "get married" ie have the blessing, just been told it's not the done thing. Eveyone is different though.

My other worker on the farm is a gay man, so we have a 100% gay workforce, have no idea why just turned out that way.

Cheers RC

[Ice Treasure]

I am sorry... you are all so well versed.

In Thai village religious observance, you will find that things like the house blessing and the "village" wedding as opposed to the religious observance are carried out by a man who actually interprets signs.

For example: where to put the spirit house. These are not done by the monks they are done by the man termed Ajarn, and yes it isn't a teacher per se, more of a shaman. He is referred to in our village as "Ajarn". But then, the deputy Abbot is also called Ajarn, so you tell me.

Now I bow to the greater knowledge of those here, however, the village/family ceremony is quite acceptable, though the monks "may" not be involved. That is to say, they can be, but may not. I suspect that is a decision reached by the parents/grandparents, but I have no evidence of that, merely a feeling.

Regarding Prothaiexpat, what is legal? Recognised at the Ampheur, or by parents/family?

No I am not talking about the Abbot "Jao a Wat".

Ask "your thai" who selects the place to put the Pii Baan". That's the man I am referring to, (in Northern Thailand).

[Ijustwannateach]

Seems to me Ice Treasure's got more than wee dose of the ol' attitude!

[ProThaiExpat]

Ice Treasure: I have been following the "same-sex" issue quite closely and likewise have been very interested in determining what is going to happen at the amphur and at immigration when the first legally "married in the U.S." couple come to Thailand and claim "marriage" rights, ie. 400K baht in bank for "supporting Thai wife" vs. 800k for retirement.

I am working on finding out information on the European legallay married couples residing in Thailand. My guess is they don't project their status. Will advise further when I get more information.

[jdinasia]

Oh ... here's an article on the subject

http://www.floatinglotus.com/tmot/gayweddings.html

[ChrisP]

^^ This is EXACTLY what I was looking for...!

and more at:

http://www.gaybutton.com/marriage.html

Many thanks jdinasia!

We all (in Dorothy's world) realize we cannot have a Legally Recognized marriage in LOS.. BUT we obviously CAN do something meaningful about our relationship, and something that is taken seriously by the families.

The important thing is not that he has a religiously sanctioned marriage, which he doesn’t, but that he and his lover made merit and celebrated their relationship with friends and family.[/I]

Although the foreigner and his Thai partner are not religiously married, they nonetheless performed a traditional Thai marriage ceremony in the presence of family and friends. And the men who participate in the pí′tee pòok sèeo have indeed declared a lifelong bond before family and friends.

The groom wrote, “The marriage is taken quite seriously by all concerned. This is a lifelong commitment made by the couple and, in the eyes of the Buddhist religion, the marriage is recognized and sacred.” Clearly, their “marriage” was important to him and, although it is not recognized or considered sacred by Buddhists or within the religion. It is unlikely that the union was taken as seriously by attending nongay Thai family and friends as they would a male and female participating in a traditional wedding ceremony. This is not important to them. They most likely would respect the two not only for the good deeds they performed when they made merit, but also their bonding. The Thai’s family will likely treat the foreign “husband” as part of the family (my Thai partner’s family does and we did not even participate in a ceremony) and Thai friends are likely to think of the two as a couple (fæn แฟน, kôo-rák′ คู่รัก).

ChrisP