Australian Woman Abducted And Gang Raped In Pattaya

[timekeeper]

Indeed & thats why I said, lets wait for more actual reported information instead of making disgusting comments about her for example;

sorry to sound sexist but from her looks, I'd put my money on her paying for it [or maybe they offered her a freebie] and then getting more than she bargained for. She don't look no 25 to me either

I think that attitdue isn't sexist just vile.

i agree with you 100% Boo but its no more than a typical response from jonniebkk, this forums token idiot who at the very least should be censured for his juvenile posts and then sent to bed with no dinner

[Humphrey Bear]

Don't know what to make of it at all.

I first read this a few hours ago and wondered then why the woman had got back on a motorbike with the (alleged) assailants after being threatened once.

But attitudes in many places, not just Pattaya, not just Thailand, are that the woman must have done something to 'deserve' it. Which is a reason why this serious crime is so under-reported (to the police). Many women just hide it, many wives do not even consider it rape. But it so often is.

This Rosemary / Mathilda or whatever could be a victim, even if the story she told was not the real truth. Could have been on the beer and got a bad idea in her head, could just be rather stupid, anything.

Until she tells her tale back home (if she ever does) we wuill not know the truth here.

All the local rags just reprint the statement from the local plod, who basically want this off their books. So any tale will do, as the woman has gone walkabout. (Or gone waltzing)

[Pattaya_Fox]

A Load of Cock and Bull Story

Three Australian female tourists, each affectionately known as “Sheila” walked into Pattaya Police Station on the 17th February to make a report that one of them had been raped at knifepoint by 3 Thai men.

An immediate investigation took place about such a serious incident. In order to capture the suspect men, CCTV footage was found at the hotel where she was staying. However, the film told another story about the incident. Indeed, the film had captured the people involved, but curiously, the camera showed the woman affectionately waving goodbye to her three ‘attackers’. According to hotel staff, she had hired the men for the purpose of sex on the previous night. Further, they discovered that the 3 women had already left the hotel without paying their bills. Now, the police are in cooperation with the Tourist Police and Immigration has begun a search for the 3 women who have vanished but are believed to be at large in Thailand.

Pattaya People 18.02.08

[traveller5000]

I wouldn't have guessed it but jonniebkk was spot on, at least according to the news reports / hotel staff. Not that I completely trust these information sources.

[MisterFingers]

From everything I've read about this, my first guess of what actually happened is this:

(And remember, this is just a guess)

1) This woman agreed to have sex with these men for a certain fee. (I mean them promising to pay her, not the other way around)

2) These men, knowing that a foreign prostitutes have no rights or recourse whatsoever, reneged on this deal after the fact.

3) In addition to reneging on paying her, they may have muscled their way out, taking her money as well.

4) Her only way to get revenge on these men was to claim she had been raped.

5) She left in a hurry because she knew the cops were on to her lie, and perhaps she had no money to pay for the hotel because the men took her money.

Whatever the case may be, I'll never believe that a 25 year old Australian woman who's not bad looking would ever have to pay three Thai men to have sex with her.

Not on this planet, or a million planets like this, if there are a million planets like this.

[thaiflyer1]

A Load of Cock and Bull Story

Three Australian female tourists, each affectionately known as “Sheila” walked into Pattaya Police Station on the 17th February to make a report that one of them had been raped at knifepoint by 3 Thai men.

An immediate investigation took place about such a serious incident. In order to capture the suspect men, CCTV footage was found at the hotel where she was staying. However, the film told another story about the incident. Indeed, the film had captured the people involved, but curiously, the camera showed the woman affectionately waving goodbye to her three ‘attackers’. According to hotel staff, she had hired the men for the purpose of sex on the previous night. Further, they discovered that the 3 women had already left the hotel without paying their bills. Now, the police are in cooperation with the Tourist Police and Immigration has begun a search for the 3 women who have vanished but are believed to be at large in Thailand.

Pattaya People 18.02.08

Well Taxexile ?

On top of everything else they left without paying thier hotel bills..........it does say something about their character now doesn't it?

[thaiflyer1]

Whatever the case may be, I'll never believe that a 25 year old Australian woman who's not bad looking would ever have to pay three Thai men to have sex with her.

Not on this planet, or a million planets like this, if there are a million planets like this.

I/d wouldn't like to come from your planet MisterFingers......

[taxexile]

Whatever the case may be, I'll never believe that a 25 year old Australian woman who's not bad looking would ever have to pay three Thai men to have sex with her.

i dont believe it either , i dont think we will ever get the full story on this , but after reading the latest news reports my "speculative guess" is that she willingly had sex with the tour guide that she had met earlier and that he later invited some of his pals to come along to join the fun , wrongly assuming that she would be up for it , things eventually got out of hand and some sort of an assault took place , possibly rape , possibly attempted rape , in her anger she decided to make charges against them and later fled the hotel.

i also wonder what the role of the other 2 "sheilas" was in all this.

if this was a false accusation of assault or rape , then i hope she is brought to trial on this.

but proving any of this without properly taken evidence , statements and hospital reports is going to be impossible.

it would all come down to the word of the aussie girls against the word of the thais and the face of the police.

the only encouraging news to come out of this is that 3 falang tourists actually managed to leave the country alive without paying their hotel bills , probably a first .

a sleight that probably rankles the police and hotelier even more than any possible damage to pattayas reputation that could result from a gang rape abduction story.

Well Taxexile ?

On top of everything else they left without paying thier hotel bills..........it does say something about their character now doesn't it?

it just tells me that the reception staff were asleep on the job as the girls walked out with their cases

the manager must be fuming ! stiffed by falangs , and women at that !! how will he ever live it down.

Edited February 19, 2008 by taxexile

[sbk]

Before we start getting on our high horses about rape lets read this AP article from 2005:

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) - Rape and other kinds of sexual abuse of females in Thailand are increasing rapidly, but police are arresting a smaller percentage of assailants, a prominent researcher said.

The number of reported cases of rape jumped from 3,741 in 1997 to 5,052 last year, while police nabbed only 36 percent of the assailants in 2004 compared to 69 percent eight years ago, according to a research paper made available Tuesday.

"This proves that the performance of law enforcers has sharply decreased in contrast to the alarming increase in crime,'' said Kritaya Achavanichkul of the Institute of Population and Social Research at Mahidol University.

The researcher estimated that only about 5 percent of females who were raped made official complaints to police because of embarrassment or fear, since in many cases the attackers were well known to the victims.

The researcher blamed pornographic films and obscene photographs on the Internet for the increase in rape and sexual abuse. She advised that young people be given more education, with parents telling their children to better control their sexual desire.

"The media should also refrain from prominent reports of rape cases and abuse against females,'' the research paper said.

Thai newspapers often splash reports of rapes, including photographs of victims, on their front pages. - AP

[britmaveric]

any victim of crime is splashed in front of the newspapers, not just rape!!!

[Humphrey Bear]

Before we start getting on our high horses about rape lets read this AP article from 2005:

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) - Rape and other kinds of sexual abuse of females in Thailand are increasing rapidly, but police are arresting a smaller percentage of assailants, a prominent researcher said.

The number of reported cases of rape jumped from 3,741 in 1997 to 5,052 last year, while police nabbed only 36 percent of the assailants in 2004 compared to 69 percent eight years ago, according to a research paper made available Tuesday.

"This proves that the performance of law enforcers has sharply decreased in contrast to the alarming increase in crime,'' said Kritaya Achavanichkul of the Institute of Population and Social Research at Mahidol University.

The researcher estimated that only about 5 percent of females who were raped made official complaints to police because of embarrassment or fear, since in many cases the attackers were well known to the victims.

The researcher blamed pornographic films and obscene photographs on the Internet for the increase in rape and sexual abuse. She advised that young people be given more education, with parents telling their children to better control their sexual desire.

"The media should also refrain from prominent reports of rape cases and abuse against females,'' the research paper said.

Thai newspapers often splash reports of rapes, including photographs of victims, on their front pages. - AP

SBK - as I said earlier - this is the most under-reported serious crime on the books. It is never treated with the seriousness it deserves in third-world countries, not much better in the West.

Alhtough in Thailand it is usually Thai-on-Thai it only seems to get any consideration from the police when it is a foreigner or child as the victim. And the local press reporting is unforgiveable. These people should be closed down.

[jonniebkk]

So who are all the conclusion jumpers now...the ones with a little kai dow on their face

Like so many rape allegations...just a woman who did something that seemed like a good idea at the time...regrets it...and then tries to cover her tracks with a rape allegation

[taxexile]

jonniebkk

So who are all the conclusion jumpers now...the ones with a little kai dow on their face

no need for the gloating smugness

jonniebkk

but from her looks, I'd put my money on her paying for it

with comments like that , there is only one person with egg on their face.

also bear in mind that the newspapers reporting her as lying etc. are i believe both controlled by police organisations with an agenda regarding this case. (maybe somebody could confirm that)

[sbk]

Actually johnniebkk, you clearly have no concept of the seriousness of rape or the very low percentages of women who are raped who actually report the crime. Suggest you do some research about the numbers of false rape allegations compared to real rapes to rapes that are not reported.

[twschw]

However sbk, a false accusation of rape can be devastating to the victim. Regaining the respect and trust of the community is nearly impossible.

[sbk]

No argument here, and the small percentage of women who do make false accusations should be charged since it makes it that much more difficult for the majority of women who are not lying.

If this woman is lying, then yes, she should be charged. BUT, given the 'investigative techniques' of the Thai police, I would like to hear her story first before assuming that the police are correct.

[Humphrey Bear]

As I said in post #22

Until she tells her tale back home (if she ever does) we wuill not know the truth here.

All the local rags just reprint the statement from the local plod, who basically want this off their books. So any tale will do, as the woman has gone walkabout. (Or gone waltzing)

But I doubt that we'll hear her story - if what she said was true, she's now been discredited and I would not expect her to come forward - if what she said was a lie, then why should she make herself look bad in her home country?

[jonniebkk]

... you clearly have no concept of the seriousness of rape or the very low percentages of women who are raped who actually report the crime...

You can pontificate on your feminist theories all you want...but the plain fact is that many Western women tourists in Thailand totally ignore the local standards of comportment for women and then have the temerity to piss and moan when something unfortunate happens.

All crimes are unfortunate and if one has indeed taken place in this instance then hopefully (but unlikely) and investigation and prosecution would ensue. However, everyone also bears some responsibility for their own actions.

[chuckd]

Here is a link to a recent case where the victim was believed, to the detriment of justice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Duke_Uni...se_team_scandal

It happens.

PS: I hope the link works. If not, you get the idea.

[Kerryd]

This wouldn't be the first time that a tourist (or tourists) have alleged to be the victim of a crime and then skipped out without paying their bills. Too often we hear about people that end up spending all their money, even selling their return tickets in some cases, and suddenly they are stuck. No ticket, no money, overstay on their visas, etc.

Not too long ago there was a story of a guy who, the night before he was to leave the country, supposedly left his wallet on a hot-plate in his hotel. This caused a fire but miraculously, only his money burnt up and he couldn't afford to pay his bill. Next thing you know, zing ! he somehow managed to get to the airport and out of the country, leaving the hotel owner with an unpaid bill and costs to repair the damage.

No doubt there are many others that just simply "disappear" one morning, get to the airport and are back in their home country before the hotel staff are even aware they've been stiffed.

Chances are this will be the last we hear of this case. Maybe the Thai authorities will ask to have her extradited to face the charges ? Nah, not likely.

[Pattaya_Fox]

From this weeks Pattaya Mail

Theerarak Suthatiwong

Pattaya police say accusations of rape filed by an Australian woman against three Thai men before she departed for her home country are in fact fraudulent.

Mrs Matilda Cavcic, 25, filed a report with Pattaya Police Station on February 17. She said that she had been walking back to her hotel when a Thai man had approached her with an offer to take her out and show her the nightlife. After that, he said, he would take her home. Because he seemed a sincere kind of person, she had accepted, she said.

They had ridden on his motorcycle along Sukhumvit Road, before turning into a soi and traveling through the backstreets. She said she couldn’t remember the roads. They had then arrived at an abandoned building, where he stopped the motorbike. He dragged her into the building, where he raped her. Then another man appeared and also raped her.

A third man then arrived and suggested he take her back to her room. The route back was through darkened sois with heavy foliage, and the man had also raped her before they arrived at her accommodation, where he left her.

Initially, the police had immediately sent the victim to hospital for an examination, while attempting to find her attackers. However, police now believe that she filed a false report. She has already returned to Australia.

Pol Col Nopadol Wongnorm, superintendent at Pattaya Police Station said that in verifying the account, officers had found the locations and the times in her statement did not match. At the time she stated the man had taken her back to her room at a hotel in Central Pattaya, it was apparent she was closely acquainted with the man she arrived with. He allegedly kissed her goodnight, then left as she went into her room alone. After that, she had filed her report.

Following her visit to the police station, Cavcic had packed her luggage and left the hotel without paying her bill. It was later discovered she had returned to Australia. Police say they know her male companion, and would invite him in for questioning. Police intend to pursue the case, as it is a very damaging one to the country’s reputation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[naka]

... you clearly have no concept of the seriousness of rape or the very low percentages of women who are raped who actually report the crime...

You can pontificate on your feminist theories all you want...but the plain fact is that many Western women tourists in Thailand totally ignore the local standards of comportment for women and then have the temerity to piss and moan when something unfortunate happens.

All crimes are unfortunate and if one has indeed taken place in this instance then hopefully (but unlikely) and investigation and prosecution would ensue. However, everyone also bears some responsibility for their own actions.

Whoaaa there, you gotta be kidding ! like the local lasses are all prim and demure ?

Naka.

[jonniebkk]

...like the local lasses are all prim and demure...

Oh absolutely

They also know not to accept rides on the back of unknown Thai men's motorbikes for a free "tour" of the city's nitelife

[sumrit]

pattay daily news

When I click on this link Avast Antivirus on my PC detects a virus.

It says the Malware name is HMTL:lframe and the Malware type is a virus/worm.

Anybody else had this?

Edited February 22, 2008 by sumrit

[taxexile]

there was a thread about it , a false positive apparently , nothing to worry about.

[thaiflyer1]

there was a thread about it , a false positive apparently , nothing to worry about.

Bit like this story really..........

[MiG16]

... you clearly have no concept of the seriousness of rape or the very low percentages of women who are raped who actually report the crime...

You can pontificate on your feminist theories all you want...but the plain fact is that many Western women tourists in Thailand totally ignore the local standards of comportment for women and then have the temerity to piss and moan when something unfortunate happens.

All crimes are unfortunate and if one has indeed taken place in this instance then hopefully (but unlikely) and investigation and prosecution would ensue. However, everyone also bears some responsibility for their own actions.

if calling for equal respect makes me a feminist, then add to the list of feminists of the world.

regardless of the event that took place, even if she did go with the men voluntarily, even if she did want to have some fun for the night when she decided to go with them, if in the end she refused /changed her mind about wanting sex, and they still did it anyway, would still be rape. whatever happened to freedom of choice, a woman's choice to say no....(yes even if initially she said yes) and the men's respect of her decision?

SBK already pointed out the dismal state that crimes against women are dealt with (and let me tell you its not just in asia or less developed world). and remarks from people /public to the effect of "p**s and moan" is not exactly helpful if we want to try and change/pressure the authorities to take a more serious approach at dealing with violence against women. a little bit of sensitivity from every one would be a good start, and I dont think thats too much to ask from our civilised friends.

[jonniebkk]

if calling for equal respect makes me a feminist, then add to the list of feminists of the world.

regardless of the event that took place, even if she did go with the men voluntarily, even if she did want to have some fun for the night when she decided to go with them, if in the end she refused /changed her mind about wanting sex, and they still did it anyway, would still be rape. whatever happened to freedom of choice, a woman's choice to say no....(yes even if initially she said yes) and the men's respect of her decision?

Like I say, all that THEORY is great...especially back in a women's studies course in Farangland but nobody here gives a d*mn about it. If a woman chooses to get on the back of a strange man's motorcycle and it later turns out that something unfortunate happened, she will not find much sympathy among local men or women.

She can certainly stand on Beach Road, on a box, and shout out to all who will listen that it was her choice and right to do what she did if that makes her feel better

Edited February 23, 2008 by jonniebkk

[Humphrey Bear]

if calling for equal respect makes me a feminist, then add to the list of feminists of the world.

regardless of the event that took place, even if she did go with the men voluntarily, even if she did want to have some fun for the night when she decided to go with them, if in the end she refused /changed her mind about wanting sex, and they still did it anyway, would still be rape. whatever happened to freedom of choice, a woman's choice to say no....(yes even if initially she said yes) and the men's respect of her decision?

Like I say, all that THEORY is great...especially back in a women's studies course in Farangland but nobody here gives a d*mn about it. If a woman chooses to get on the back of a strange man's motorcycle and it later turns out that something unfortunate happened, she will not find much sympathy among local men or women.

She can certainly stand on Beach Road, on a box, and shout out to all who will listen that it was her choice and right to do what she did if that makes her feel better

If you are going to maintain the view expressed above - please change your avatar.

Extract from a Che Guevara biography

His execution of deserters and spies in the revolutionary army, have led some to consider Guevara a ruthless leader. However those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder.

I can cite many other sources, some in great depth, showing the attitude of most socialist leaders towards crimes against the person, of which rape is one of the most serious.

It is the capitalistic society in which we live that holds crimes against property to be as great, or greater, than crimes against the person.

[StateSix]

It is the capitalistic society in which we live that holds crimes against property to be as great, or greater, than crimes against the person.

Then why do crimes against the person (murder, rape, serious assault, robbery) all attract higher maximum (and usually actual) sentences, than crimes against property (burglary, theft)?