Why Bring Small Children On Holiday?

[Mark Wolfe]

You make it sound, Boo, as if the only valid replies are from those with little kids. That's like saying only those who have actually been to the moon have the only valid information on it.

IMO unless you have children of your own & have expereinced what it is ike to take them to samui or anywhere else for that matter then it is pure guess work, speculation & what you perceive to be the situation.

I've never been to Rio, but I think I can speak intelligently on its crime, for example. I have never been executed for a capital crime, but I believe that I can comment on it using, yes, "guesswork, speculation and what I perceive to be the situation," and still have valid ideas.

But I agree that seeing a glimpse of something isn't going to give you all the information about the situation, just as seeing certain men of certain nationalities sitting with their fellow countrymen drinking beer all day, every day, isn't going to give you all the information about them.

I suppose one could stop every family with a little one and ask some neutral questions about their experiences with kids, along with whether or not they feel that bringing them has in any way negatively impacted others. But I will leave that for someone else.

[koheesti]

I suppose one could stop every family with a little one and ask some neutral questions about their experiences with kids, along with whether or not they feel that bringing them has in any way negatively impacted others. But I will leave that for someone else.

Dspite what some say, the best way to assess the situation is by observing. IMO, it would be a waste of time to "interview" the parents because they wouldn't give the entire truth. Probably every parent will tell you how absolutely wonderful their little bundles of joy no matter what is plain to see for everyone else. It's related to the same parental instinct that makes them truly believe that their newborn is the most beautiful baby the world has ever seen as opposed to looking just like all the others.

Of couse, not 100% of kids drive their parents or other people crazy, but probably a lot of them at one time or another. At least enough for a thread like this to be alive and well.

[lioness]

I never left my son, he went where I did. How could I relax on a holiday wondering if he was ok.

Children are not work as such, they are part of the family unit and an absolute joy. why would you want to dump them on someone else.

Some close friends of mine asked me to look after their 2 children while they went to the UK for 6 weeks. Boy 4 years old and girl 2, the 2 year old was fine, but the little boy missed his parents and routine so much, after a couple of weeks he wouldn't eat, he cried and cried but wouldn't settle at night, the whole thing was a nightmare for me and the lad and I reckon I had aged 10 years by the time they got back. I would never do that to a child of mine. The parents had a wonderful holiday, suntanned, relaxed and full of beans when they got back, but there little boy took months to feel secure again, thinking mommy and daddy were going to leave him again.

[Boo]

You make it sound, Boo, as if the only valid replies are from those with little kids

Well yes, unless you have actually travelled with your own child to another country/culture/climate then how could you possibly know what it is really like ? From seeing a family having breakfast or walking on the beach? No sorry, you saw a glimpse only.

I've never been to Rio, but I think I can speak intelligently on its crime, for example. I have never been executed for a capital crime, but I believe that I can comment on it using, yes, "guesswork, speculation and what I perceive to be the situation," and still have valid ideas.

But you wouldn't know what the place smelt like or how the sand on the beach felt in your toes or the fear involved on being on death row or the pain & anguish of the victims family. You can comment from a purely speculative & detached perspective. Entirely different to actually being the one doing. I could read a book, watch a tv show or even observe/talk to a sex tourist but I wouldnt know what it was actually like to be one or what they do & why nor would I presume to tell one that I did or that my view on them was more accurate than their own

Dspite what some say, the best way to assess the situation is by observing.

So you observe these people 24hrs a day? I think thats called stalking. When you are having a stressed out moment does it ruin your whole day or your whole week or a 2 week period for example? When you were a child were you naughty & in your parents face 24/7? One would hope not but maybe you were.

Most kids are a peice of piss to deal with interspersed with moments (yes moments) of needing to deal with some situation or another so do you observe the times families are having fun., play times, enjoying a meal or just generally spending time together or do you only base your opinion on a negative snapshot of their day that you might have noticed? Sounds to me like the latter tbh.

[ParadiseLost]

I never left my son, he went where I did. How could I relax on a holiday wondering if he was ok.

Children are not work as such, they are part of the family unit and an absolute joy. why would you want to dump them on someone else.

Some close friends of mine asked me to look after their 2 children while they went to the UK for 6 weeks. Boy 4 years old and girl 2, the 2 year old was fine, but the little boy missed his parents and routine so much, after a couple of weeks he wouldn't eat, he cried and cried but wouldn't settle at night, the whole thing was a nightmare for me and the lad and I reckon I had aged 10 years by the time they got back. I would never do that to a child of mine. The parents had a wonderful holiday, suntanned, relaxed and full of beans when they got back, but there little boy took months to feel secure again, thinking mommy and daddy were going to leave him again.

Are you sure they went to the UK...

When one or both parents (sometimes neither ) decide its time to have a baby, part of that decision process should be influenced by the major lifestyle changes (read sacrifices) an infant brings.

Parents who decide "the baby will fit into my lifestyle" are probably the most selfish of all as they do not consider that their decision has a negative impact on just about everyone else - at times even on the infant.

I do not support the "leave em with someone else" gang, even less the "little-un travels so well". I rather support the "accept your lifestyle choice" crowd (vast majority) who holiday at or near home, travelling by car. Grow up.

[koheesti]

I do not support the "leave em with someone else" gang, even less the "little-un travels so well". I rather support the "accept your lifestyle choice" crowd (vast majority) who holiday at or near home, travelling by car. Grow up.

I wouldn't leave the kids with anyone other than immediate family. Leaving a kid with the grandparents for a week isn't a problem. In many East European countries summer is when the kids are sent to live in the countryside with grandparents for 1-3 months. If I didn't have immediate family to leave the small child with I would make the sacrifice and put off any travel plans until the kid got older. If the children are such a joy then staying home with them should be fine. I wouldn't be surprised if the parents who swear up and down that their infant gets so much out of a vacation to an almost-3rd world- jungle-island like Samui are probably trying to convince themselves that they aren't being selfish.

[Boo]

lol, as mentioned earlier in the thread, some of us have chilren who are half "almost-3rd world" And selfish to whom exactly? You? Well yes, if what I do with my life upsets you so much & that makes me selfish then I'm ok with it, I'm sure there are things about you that I would find equally offensive & selfish but I don't make judgement on them. Something to try maybe

I suggest those without kids but who seem to spend so much time obsessing over it get on with their own lives & let the rest of us get on with ours or at least get something else to busybody over. Just sounds petty to me.

[koheesti]

I suggest those without kids but who seem to spend so much time obsessing over it get on with their own lives & let the rest of us get on with ours or at least get something else to busybody over. Just sounds petty to me.

If their screaming and crying in the restaurant, pool area, plane etc affected ONLY THE PARENT then I might agree with you. But it doesn't so I don't.

As for "obsessing" over the rest, this is an Internet forum. People come here to ask questions and discuss a wide range topics. Isn't that tidbit included in your handbook? But hey, if someone doesn't like the thread then they don't have to read it. There are hundreds more on Thaivisa and I'm sure they can find one that makes them feel warm and fuzzy all over instead of feeling like a bad/selfish parent.

[Boo]

feeling like a bad/selfish parent.

Where have I ever said i think I am a bad/selfish parent? I in fact know I am the opposite. You do seem to obsess over it though, otherwise why turn nasty? There are plenty of people who make noise, disrupt life etc, we cant control who lives in this world but you seem to only have issue with children.

Learn to let go of your hate. You'll feel better in the long run.

[koheesti]

feeling like a bad/selfish parent.

Where have I ever said i think I am a bad/selfish parent? I in fact know I am the opposite. You do seem to obsess over it though, otherwise why turn nasty? There are plenty of people who make noise, disrupt life etc, we cant control who lives in this world but you seem to only have issue with children.

Learn to let go of your hate. You'll feel better in the long run.

I never said that YOU thought you were a bad parent.

You shouldn't be so sensitive. You'll feel better in the long run.

[Boo]

As I was the only one replying to your posts & as you had replied to mine specifically then it isn't a big leap to assume you were referring to me.

But anyway, like I said, learn to let go of the hate & that you can't control who co-exists with you in this world & you will be a lot happier.

[koheesti]

As I was the only one replying to your posts & as you had replied to mine specifically then it isn't a big leap to assume you were referring to me.

But anyway, like I said, learn to let go of the hate & that you can't control who co-exists with you in this world & you will be a lot happier.

Calling me a hater is nasty and offensive. Place yourself on a one week ban.

[Boo]

use the report function.

[lioness]

Are you sure they went to the UK...

When one or both parents (sometimes neither ) decide its time to have a baby, part of that decision process should be influenced by the major lifestyle changes (read sacrifices) an infant brings.

Parents who decide "the baby will fit into my lifestyle" are probably the most selfish of all as they do not consider that their decision has a negative impact on just about everyone else - at times even on the infant.

I do not support the "leave em with someone else" gang, even less the "little-un travels so well". I rather support the "accept your lifestyle choice" crowd (vast majority) who holiday at or near home, travelling by car. Grow up.

Yes, they went to the UK and did a eurpoean tour while they were there.

Anyhow, as to your comment "grow up" it seems you need to be doing some of that.

[Mark Wolfe]

Koheesti was talking about himself in that earlier post, not you Boo. I think you misread that.

Lioness:

Some close friends of mine asked me to look after their 2 children while they went to the UK for 6 weeks. Boy 4 years old and girl 2, the 2 year old was fine, but the little boy missed his parents and routine so much, after a couple of weeks he wouldn't eat, he cried and cried but wouldn't settle at night, the whole thing was a nightmare for me and the lad and I reckon I had aged 10 years by the time they got back. I would never do that to a child of mine.

You wouldn't have to, in all likelihood. Clearly, something was wrong with the child. And if not, then learning about separation from the parents was a good lesson (probably lost on the dotting parents). Sounds to me like the kid has some security problems.

And I never said anything about "dumping" kids with someone. Those of you talking about how you have never been out of sight of the little ones for all their seven years or something sound like you're boasting of how long you can wear the hairshirt. You make it sound like leaving the kids with grandma or auntie is some sort of child abuse.

As I believe I said very early on, if you think leaving your kids with someone else for a week or so is nearing on to criminal behavior, look at where you are!How common is it for girls to have babies only to leave then with their relatives to raise in another province for months or years with only occasional, casual visits? You must loathe these people.

How about this: Do you married folks with kids take your infants or small children with you every time you go out to eat? Every movie you go see (that will open a can of worms...)? Don't tell me you hire a babysitter! And it's some neighbor teenage kid you hardly know? Holy crap!

Why shouldn't you have a vacation or two without the rug rat?

[Boo]

Don't tell me you hire a babysitter! And it's some neighbor teenage kid you hardly know? Holy crap!

No, no child in my family has been looked after by a stranger. Family members are more than happy to babysit for a night but why would I expect them to take care of the child I chose to have for a week or more when I in fact enjoy spending time with that child. What thai (or other) parents chose to do is their business just as what I chose to do is mine. Very....simple.....concept.....

[Mark Wolfe]

Boo:

"...no child in my family has been looked after by a stranger."

Why not? I mean, having the neighbor's daughter (or some such) look after the kid(s) while you go out for the night for activities that you want to do alone is pretty common. And really that's not even the point; the point is, you leave the kids with someone while you go do something "adult" together with your spouse, so why not extrapolate this to a major vacation (or a minor one)?

Wouldn't leaving the kids with someone you trust to take care of them be good for you and good for them too? We're not talking about leaving them in a Silence of the Lambs hole in the basement -- talk about "learning" and new experiences, wouldn't being with some people other than mom and dad be just that?

Let me reiterate: Before you had children, you and your opposite number enjoyed vacation time together. Now that you have a little one, the dynamics have changed. But just once is a while, wouldn't it be nice to have a holiday that could mirror the kind that you used to have when it was just the two of you?

[lioness]

Well done Boo, my child never had a stranger take care of him either.

Ditto your comments.

[Boo]

Mark you missed the part of my post about liking my child & wanting to spend time with him. When you have a child you accept & enjoy the being part of a family that is spending time together, if you are unable to accept that aspect then it is best, imo, to remain childless.

Why not? I mean, having the neighbor's daughter (or some such) look after the kid(s) while you go out for the night for activities that you want to do alone is pretty common.

As I said, why would I leave my child with an unknown child when I have trusted relatives who look after him. It may be common in America to leave kids with random teens but here in UK it isnt so common, esp if you have family living nearby. We go out for the evening or day alone quite a bit as well as going out as a family, but there is massive differnece between a few hours & 2 weeks.

But you seem unwilling to accept that so lets leave it shall we. You asked why people take chiildren to samui, many parents have answered, you & one or two others seem unwilling or unable to accept that just cause you would dump your (hypatheical) kids for a couple of weeks, those of us who posted who actually have kids, wouldn't.

Tell you what, go find some girl, knock her up, come back in a year or so & give us your opinion on holidaying with kids. Then I might take what you have to say seriously but tbh all I see you doing here is trolling.

But just to clarify the points you have ignored; I like spending time with my child, I wouldn't want to leave him for a long period of time cause I like spending time with my child & I beleive that when you have children it is your responsibility to take care of them & not expect other people to do it

[ParadiseLost]

Mark you missed the part of my post about liking my child & wanting to spend time with him. When you have a child you accept & enjoy the being part of a family that is spending time together, if you are unable to accept that aspect then it is best, imo, to remain childless.

Why not? I mean, having the neighbor's daughter (or some such) look after the kid(s) while you go out for the night for activities that you want to do alone is pretty common.

As I said, why would I leave my child with an unknown child when I have trusted relatives who look after him. It may be common in America to leave kids with random teens but here in UK it isnt so common, esp if you have family living nearby. We go out for the evening or day alone quite a bit as well as going out as a family, but there is massive differnece between a few hours & 2 weeks.

But you seem unwilling to accept that so lets leave it shall we. You asked why people take chiildren to samui, many parents have answered, you & one or two others seem unwilling or unable to accept that just cause you would dump your (hypatheical) kids for a couple of weeks, those of us who posted who actually have kids, wouldn't.

Tell you what, go find some girl, knock her up, come back in a year or so & give us your opinion on holidaying with kids. Then I might take what you have to say seriously but tbh all I see you doing here is trolling.

But just to clarify the points you have ignored; I like spending time with my child, I wouldn't want to leave him for a long period of time cause I like spending time with my child & I beleive that when you have children it is your responsibility to take care of them & not expect other people to do it

Please forgive my intrusion here, but (IMHO) the thread is not about whether you love the little monsters or not - it is a question as to whether you should take them on long-haul holidays to exotic destinations (known for seedy nightlife, drunken revelry, unhygienic conditions, etc).

One question - would you take your child to Ibiza?

[koheesti]

Maybe those of us who choose to remain childless are showing better judgment in the first place? Maybe taking your infant on vacation to a less-than-child-safe place like Samui is just another in a long line of poor decisions? (I hope I used the proper smiley. Wouldn't want anyone to get upset over my post and send a hitman after me)

Edited July 23, 2009 by koheesti

[Birdman]

What's the matter with some poster here?? Can"t understand their attitudes to flame about one of the dream destinations worldwide for many and apparently about the place they choose to live. If it's so horrible here for them just move back to the West together with the attitude.

Or better take a trip to other non westernized places around the world to get a clearer picture.

What a pity their mom and dad did not take them to exotic places when they were children.

[Boo]

less-than-child-safe place

be sure to let all those people who have & raise their children on samui the news that it is less that child safe. haha you crack me up. In your opinion samui isn't child safe but to many many many parents samui is one of the safest places to go. But aghain, any parent should know that safe is only based on how you look after your child.

Granted i wouldn't take my kid white water rafting or paragliding but sitting on the beach or taking a stroll down Bophut is hardly on the list of uninsurable activities is it. You really are funny.

it is a question as to whether you should take them on long-haul holidays to exotic destinations

And the questrion has been answered multiple times by parents who have. But Mark (the op) asked for an answer on a couple of senarios & I have answered him. Try to keep up.

One question - would you take your child to Ibiza?

Ibiza, like Samui isn't just nighlife & hedonistic partying, it is actually a very family freindly holiday destination, as is Samui

[Boo]

Maybe those of us who choose to remain childless are showing better judgment in the first place?

In your case I would have to agree with you. (insert smilie, you chose.)

[Birdman]

less-than-child-safe place

be sure to let all those people who have & raise their children on samui the news that it is less that child safe. haha you crack me up. In your opinion samui isn't child safe but to many many many parents samui is one of the safest places to go. But aghain, any parent should know that safe is only based on how you look after your child.

Granted i wouldn't take my kid white water rafting but sitting on a beach or taking a stroll down Buphut is hardly on the list of uninsurable activities isn it. You really are funny.

it is a question as to whether you should take them on long-haul holidays to exotic destinations

And thr questrion has been answered multiple times by parents who have. But Mark (the op) asked a couple for an answer on a senarios & I have answered him. Try to keep up.

One question - would you take your child to Ibiza?

Ibiza, like Samui isn't just nighlife & hedonistic partying, it is actually a very family freindly holiday destination, as is Samui

Totaly agree.

BTW: There are many Westerners on Samui, who never go to beer bars and have zero interest in night life.

[cdnvic]

A lot of people in this thread who don't seem to grasp the concept of a family.

And as for Samui being less then child friendly, where do the locals send their kids to be raised?

[Boo]

Amazing innit birdman. The way some of them talk you'd think they have never been out in samui at 7am when the school buses are picking up the kids, or seen anywhere apart from soi green mango or lamai ladybars

[koheesti]

Maybe those of us who choose to remain childless are showing better judgment in the first place?

In your case I would have to agree with you. (insert smilie, you chose.)

chose? At least my kids would have a better grasp of their language and learn not to rely on a spellchecker.

[Boo]

ah the last bastion of the failing argument, spelling nazism. well done, do you feel big now?

[koheesti]

What's the matter with some poster here?? Can"t understand their attitudes to flame about one of the dream destinations worldwide for many and apparently about the place they choose to live. If it's so horrible here for them just move back to the West together with the attitude.

Or better take a trip to other non westernized places around the world to get a clearer picture.

What a pity their mom and dad did not take them to exotic places when they were children.

Let me get this straight, since I believe Koh Samui isn't the safest place to bring infants and toddlers on vacation then I should move back "West"? If you have children I hope you have enough sense not to home school.

Boo, people living here should know what's going (generally, some of you certainly are exceptions) unlike short-time tourists oblivious to any potential hazards found on a tropical island with poor infrastructure, etc. Some people just don't mind taking chances where their children are involved. As you say, it's a personal choice.