The Property Market

[mikethevigoman]

It's smoke and mirrors game around here. Getting the truth is a futile effort. You are going to believe what you read in the papers?.. opinons from real estate investors?

What are the occupancy rates?

Look at these projects at nite and count how many lights you see.

My opinion is the market is in trouble.

I see several projects that have come to a halt recently.

How long can speculators hold onto these units?

Many bought off plan with the thought of renting or selling to the farang.

The weak dollar, anti farang attitude, immigration laws, the coup, inflation have put the hurt on those speculators.

PadThaiGuy, you seem to be spot on in your assessment of the situation, desite the fact that most of the others here seem to be in denial! The EU central banks are clearly behind the curve, and yet still leave interest rates unchanged, it is just a matter of time before Europe is itself in the throws of a real estate crisis and rates start tumbling. When this happens,the Euro(which is a artificialyovervaluedcurrency)will begin to tumble as well. Should the baht remain strong vs. the dollar and get much stronger vs. the pound and the Euro, where will the buyers or the tourists for that matter come from? Russia and Dubai? Perhaps? More than likely though the formerly hyped "recession proof" areas of Phuket and Koh Samui will be hit very hard, and Pattaya and areas in BKK will see record levels of real estate inventory. The thai mindset of holding on to a proerty for years until they get their price will be put to a stern test, and I have a feeling that a year or two from now there may be some substantial price reductions both in the condo and home markets.

Well this is how i see it, however we wont have a general agreement on here i feel as the owners will want to justfy their purchase and those with properties to sell will be saying how slow the market is, my true advice regarding buying in thailand is, if you want to live in it fine, if for inverstment think long and hard, rents in pattaya anyway have not increased in 8 years in many properties and i can name some of them ,.anyone saying otherwise is an owner looking to rent or in the real estate business,we sold recently and now rent, i couldnt beleive the deals available, some were originally asking 50000 a month but would come for 15000, ..

[mikethevigoman]

A quick poll. If you posted here are you a renter, buyer, a looker or owner? be honest now

ex owner, now renting, much better , made nothing on the house in 5 years, rents have stayed the same, ( pattaya )

If you made nothing on the house, at least you didn't have rent to pay for 5 years!

No and he lost any return on the price of the property he had to put the money into.

I rent for around 3% property value.. And my investment returns have been 30 - 40% per annum last couple of years..

I think you missed my point, there was no profit on it, immaterial of no rent paid etc, my house in the UK on the other hand has increased by almost 30 per cent in 3 years, and maybe more, i dont get it valued yearly, and actually the money i had in the house here is now in my business and receiving a very good return on it,( but the main reason i sold is we are leaving thailand )

[VegasVic]

It's smoke and mirrors game around here. Getting the truth is a futile effort. You are going to believe what you read in the papers?.. opinons from real estate investors?

What are the occupancy rates?

Look at these projects at nite and count how many lights you see.

My opinion is the market is in trouble.

I see several projects that have come to a halt recently.

How long can speculators hold onto these units?

Many bought off plan with the thought of renting or selling to the farang.

The weak dollar, anti farang attitude, immigration laws, the coup, inflation have put the hurt on those speculators.

PadThaiGuy, you seem to be spot on in your assessment of the situation, desite the fact that most of the others here seem to be in denial! The EU central banks are clearly behind the curve, and yet still leave interest rates unchanged, it is just a matter of time before Europe is itself in the throws of a real estate crisis and rates start tumbling. When this happens,the Euro(which is a artificialyovervaluedcurrency)will begin to tumble as well. Should the baht remain strong vs. the dollar and get much stronger vs. the pound and the Euro, where will the buyers or the tourists for that matter come from? Russia and Dubai? Perhaps? More than likely though the formerly hyped "recession proof" areas of Phuket and Koh Samui will be hit very hard, and Pattaya and areas in BKK will see record levels of real estate inventory. The thai mindset of holding on to a proerty for years until they get their price will be put to a stern test, and I have a feeling that a year or two from now there may be some substantial price reductions both in the condo and home markets.

Well this is how i see it, however we wont have a general agreement on here i feel as the owners will want to justfy their purchase and those with properties to sell will be saying how slow the market is, my true advice regarding buying in thailand is, if you want to live in it fine, if for inverstment think long and hard, rents in pattaya anyway have not increased in 8 years in many properties and i can name some of them ,.anyone saying otherwise is an owner looking to rent or in the real estate business,we sold recently and now rent, i couldnt beleive the deals available, some were originally asking 50000 a month but would come for 15000, ..

You are right Mike, it is easy to pick out the posters here who have "buyers remorse" they know they made a bad decesion but instead of admiting it they defend their purchase and declare that the thai housing market is still strong, despite all evidence to the contrary. If the baht does indeed remain strong, as the worlds major economies slow then I think you will enjoy very reasonable rental rates for years to come in the LOS.

[Maigo6]

And my investment returns have been 30 - 40% per annum last couple of years..

That's a great return, you must be headhunted by every financial institution in the world who dangle muti million dollar contracts in your face.

[LivinLOS]

And my investment returns have been 30 - 40% per annum last couple of years..

That's a great return, you must be headhunted by every financial institution in the world who dangle muti million dollar contracts in your face.

Theres always the doubters and haters isnt there ?? Lets face it, US muni debt is paying up around 15%, you would have to be pretty dumb not to make money.

Sp they have been good returns but basically I have made >25% every year for the last 4 or 5 and well over 30 (over 40 if I look 12 months from now) for the last 2.. Done almost 20% since Jan 1st this year in just 2 months alone. Of course thats valued in a collapsing dollar but that trade has been telegraphed for so long and argued (me tripxcore mouse) etc that it can hardly be news.

My calls have all been publically put out there.. Long gold (at 380) long HUI back in the mid - high 200's, long silver at mid 6's.. Basically bet the farm (80+ % of my net worth) on those. I also have had more modest amounts of my portfolio shorting home builders and lenders (made a very public call dated in May 06 on this here http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/money-in...ghlight=popping thats pretty much to the day on a housing top) with some side plays in uranium (still think this will do a moon shot) and energy (came out too early but at least moved the assets to gold which means it was still performance).

Basically its a lot easier to make such returns when the money supply has been expanded the way it is, that money is sloshing around in the system and is only getting worse, its not rocket science. I dont even 'trade' on a daily kind of basis.. Just pick the right sectors and those have been soooo telegraphed and highlighted you have not had to look hard. Simply bet on the value of fiat falling and inflation rising, too much credit in the system making bubbles in RE and too much debt killing the consumer. Commodity calls have purely been a play on too much money supply and credit.

[Maigo6]

Theres always the doubters and haters isnt there ??

Haters is a bit strong as I have no clue who you are, but c'mon, anonymous Internet Forums are not exactly known for the honesty of the posters.

If you have those returns then I'd certainly want you in charge of my millions if I was CEO of a multinational.

[chiang mai]

Down here in the south of Phuket, there are houses and condos being thrown up everywhere at an alarming rate. But as I travel around the area, I see the same For Sale notices and Rental signs that have been up since at least last year. And a new phenomena is ordinary houses sticking 'for rent by the day/week' signs outside.

Has anyone sold or for that matter, been able to rent their property lately? The estate agents/rental agents keep telling me their busy, but they would wouldn't they.

I've been actively looking in Phuket for the past six months and all the signs that I see suggest that second hand property is not moving one centimeter, except maybe downwards in terms of price - I've seen a very pleasant 11.7 mill in Chalong come down to 8.6 mill. and a 6.7 in Rawii come down to 5.0 mill. , both of these after 18 months or longer on the market. A nice new house in Kata for 18 mill hasn't sold in a year yet the owner says he's about to begin construction of three more, on the same site and that they are all presold - large pinches of salt here I reckon. One real estate firm I know well declares they have sold less than six houses in nine months - sales reps from the others tell me that business is so brisk and that prices are rising by 25% a year, I can only smile.

[j_cheung]

"Shanghai was probably not a good example - but...Shanghai has much more to offer all around and will soon be the city in this part of the world then I think it is fairly-priced, with Bangkok over-priced."

Have you ever lived in Shanghai? Have you even visited Shanghai? There are several situations with China which you do not seem to understand. China is "moving to a market economy", which is different from "having a markey economy". There are 1.4 billion people there, with 20 million living in Shanghai...and virtually everyone not living in Shanghai resents the amount of money that the government has invested there. The government refuses to keep its hands off either the real estate or stock markets, creating artificial ebbs and flows. A friend bought a condo for 8,000RMB/sqm and, within a year, it was worth almost 40,000. The government implemented new taxes, and the condo dropped to 20,000. Regardless, Shanghai is very expensive. You probably didn't realize that no one owns property in China, everyone gets a 70 year lease....but the government has the option of calling in that lease, and allowing the property to be razed and redeveloped. When I first moved to SH foreigners were allowed to buy a condo but, with the incredible runup of prices, the law was changed. In summary, it is simpler for you to buy land in Thailand, than it is for you to buy a condo in SH. If you have not done so already, I'd suggest developing a "plan B".

Not to mention the onerous state banking regulations on the amount of RMB converted & transferred in & out of the country daily (varying between 20K to 50K). These make the recently rescinded capital controls in Thailand look like a slap on the wrist. Property prices through most major cities in China had been rising sharply while their transaction volume was inversely shrinking over the past year. Most call this: 有价无市 - Have price but no market.

[shochu]

Have I been to Shanghai? What do you think backflip?

If I were to buy a place there - it would not be as an investment trying to get a good return but would be more of a part time home meaning I would be spending enough time there to make it worthwhile. And if i want advice about the market there, I think I would rather ask friends who have first hand knowledge. I don't recall asking about whether I should or shouldn't.

[Schooner]

My experence is that people are buying and renting. The growth rate is probably around 4-6 percent for properties in the 4-8 million baht range. Higher priced property is selling better.

I have a house rented and I thing if you buy a quality place in a desirible location you won't have any trouble renting or selling. My average return on investment is about 8% without considering what I could make on the exchange rate if I sold it today (30%)

IMO the market was too hot a couple of years ago and it really needed to slow down, but make no mistake it will continue to run along at 4-6% which is desirable in any economy. Let's not forget what the huge developers know and that is that there are millions of baby boomers retiring soon and they want to live in warm temps.

[alive555]

Actually here is the real truth about The River;-

1. Launched in May 2007 . Thats less than 1 year ago. Not 3 years ago.

2. The project is a huge success. Sold 470 units or 88% of the stock released.

3. The price has hit 250,000 baht/m2 for the best unit.

4. The markets v v strong.

If you dont believe me go to sales office and try to buy a unit.

Amazing mis information on this website.

[spasticated]

<br />My experence is that people are buying and renting. The growth rate is probably around 4-6 percent for properties in the 4-8 million baht range. Higher priced property is selling better. <br /><br />I have a house rented and I thing if you buy a quality place in a desirible location you won't have any trouble renting or selling. My average return on investment is about 8% without considering what I could make on the exchange rate if I sold it today (30%) <br /><br />IMO the market was too hot a couple of years ago and it really needed to slow down, but make no mistake it will continue to run along at 4-6% which is desirable in any economy. Let's not forget what the huge developers know and that is that there are millions of baby boomers retiring soon and they want to live in warm temps.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I dont understand this bit above "Higher priced property is selling better" ??? Why? the market is smaller? how many buyers are there for 8 million baht condos compared to 2 million baht condos.

[farangmal]

i must ask the question then, how long do homes and condos stay on the market in US or europe?

I have sold three properties in the Uk in the last two years.

First one a flat took 2 Months.

Second a house took 1 Month

Third a flat took 3 Months.

That's my experience of the UK property market!

Edited March 26, 2008 by farangmal

[thaigene2]

i must ask the question then, how long do homes and condos stay on the market in US or europe?

I have sold three properties in the Uk in the last two years.

First one a flat took 2 Months.

Second a house took 1 Month

Third a flat took 3 Months.

That's my experience of the UK property market!

I did alright in the UK market too - though the market there has always been goofy due to the 'chain' as it's called. If one person can't get financing or even feels a bit 'faint' they can bail out, and screw up everyone else waiting for the sale to proceed so they too can buy/sell.

But the real problem in UK is a legal weakness in the way the sales are handled - it's stupid - plain and simple with no one getting any security, and everyone being able to offer, offer, without sticking their neck out.

The best system IMHO is Canada. When you want to buy - you put your money (and your signature) where your mouth is. You can add 'subjects' to the contract that let you out if the buyer can't secure financing within 2 weeks etc, or the place gets a bum-rap from the evaluator, ete. also within a couple of weeks. But there's none of this waiting for months and months to close the deal like there is in England/Wales (Scotland has a better system). Others should copy this example IMHO. It works efficiently and protects both the buyer and seller equally without the silliness that goes in Eng/Wales.

[thaigene2]

Actually here is the real truth about The River;-

1. Launched in May 2007 . Thats less than 1 year ago. Not 3 years ago.

2. The project is a huge success. Sold 470 units or 88% of the stock released.

3. The price has hit 250,000 baht/m2 for the best unit.

4. The markets v v strong.

If you dont believe me go to sales office and try to buy a unit.

Amazing mis information on this website.

Perhaps the market is as you say 'v v strong'..

Then again, here's what you said in another post about your prediction this year for condo sales and rentals (4 Feb 08):

" I expect to see rents coming down and prices too, approx 15-20% fall in prices, starting in 12 months from now."

Perhaps The River defies your laws of gravity? Not mine - unless those laws of purchase are levitated by "dirty laundry". Rich people (usually) aren't stupid enough to over-pay for 'anything'. So then...??

[johnnyk]

....The best system IMHO is Canada. When you want to buy - you put your money (and your signature) where your mouth is. You can add 'subjects' to the contract that let you out if the buyer can't secure financing within 2 weeks etc, or the place gets a bum-rap from the evaluator, ete. also within a couple of weeks. But there's none of this waiting for months and months to close the deal like there is in England/Wales (Scotland has a better system). Others should copy this example IMHO. It works efficiently and protects both the buyer and seller equally without the silliness that goes in Eng/Wales.

Just to add 2 satang here, in Canada if your offer is signed back to you with the seller's new figure then the whole thing is locked up tight and negotiations between the two parties continue until the deal is either accepted or rejected definitively. Only then can a new punter enter the picture and make an offer. No gazumping and throwing everthing into chaos because an 11th hour bid came in 500 pounds higher!

Its eminently sensible (Canada being a sensible country), no nonsense like chains where one wanke_r can throw 10 other pending deals out the window.

[Theyreallrubbish]

The middle class Thai market is strong in Bangkok, providing its next to transport infrastructure. I know of very large condo buildings 3-400 units that are right next to a mass transit station and priced at 2-4 million Baht that are selling out in a month. These are 30-40 sqm units, although they are well designed and well finished most of us wouldn't want to live in them for very long, but they're perfect for a young single Thai professional or young couple.

The farang market is almost dead apart from the top 2-3 buildings and doesn't affect the general market at all.

A Thai I know just agreed to sell her house in a Bangkok suburb. It was only finished 8 months ago and she agreed to sell for a 50k loss "As it will go down more if I wait."

Land prices in and around Bangkok are rising rapidly with huge rises anywhere near the mass transit stations or proposed stations.

The Phuket market is actually pretty strong. Around 750 properties a year are selling there for over $1 million. Astonishes me that there are so many buyers, but I don't like Phuket so I'm biased.

The Chiang Mai rental market is apparently OK, but I'm not so sure, the town looks dead and listings are sitting for a looooong time. The sales market is very weak with the farang buyers having almost disappeared.

Pattaya is very strong with farangs driving the condo market and Thai's the SFHs. Unsurprisingly the condo prices have skyrocketed. "Oh, that's only 50,000 pounds. Its so cheap!"

[VegasVic]

The middle class Thai market is strong in Bangkok, providing its next to transport infrastructure. I know of very large condo buildings 3-400 units that are right next to a mass transit station and priced at 2-4 million Baht that are selling out in a month. These are 30-40 sqm units, although they are well designed and well finished most of us wouldn't want to live in them for very long, but they're perfect for a young single Thai professional or young couple.

The farang market is almost dead apart from the top 2-3 buildings and doesn't affect the general market at all.

A Thai I know just agreed to sell her house in a Bangkok suburb. It was only finished 8 months ago and she agreed to sell for a 50k loss "As it will go down more if I wait."

Land prices in and around Bangkok are rising rapidly with huge rises anywhere near the mass transit stations or proposed stations.

The Phuket market is actually pretty strong. Around 750 properties a year are selling there for over $1 million. Astonishes me that there are so many buyers, but I don't like Phuket so I'm biased.

The Chiang Mai rental market is apparently OK, but I'm not so sure, the town looks dead and listings are sitting for a looooong time. The sales market is very weak with the farang buyers having almost disappeared.

Pattaya is very strong with farangs driving the condo market and Thai's the SFHs. Unsurprisingly the condo prices have skyrocketed. "Oh, that's only 50,000 pounds. Its so cheap!"

Pattaya is very strong? The condo prices have skyrocketed? I have friends who just got back from Sattahip and that certainly was not there impression of the market in Pattaya They have been back for nearly three weeks though, perhaps the market in Pattaya just recently skyrocketed, or could it be that you have an interest in promoting the Pattaya real estate market? No! That would never be allowed to occur on thaivisa

[Theyreallrubbish]

The middle class Thai market is strong in Bangkok, providing its next to transport infrastructure. I know of very large condo buildings 3-400 units that are right next to a mass transit station and priced at 2-4 million Baht that are selling out in a month. These are 30-40 sqm units, although they are well designed and well finished most of us wouldn't want to live in them for very long, but they're perfect for a young single Thai professional or young couple.

The farang market is almost dead apart from the top 2-3 buildings and doesn't affect the general market at all.

A Thai I know just agreed to sell her house in a Bangkok suburb. It was only finished 8 months ago and she agreed to sell for a 50k loss "As it will go down more if I wait."

Land prices in and around Bangkok are rising rapidly with huge rises anywhere near the mass transit stations or proposed stations.

The Phuket market is actually pretty strong. Around 750 properties a year are selling there for over $1 million. Astonishes me that there are so many buyers, but I don't like Phuket so I'm biased.

The Chiang Mai rental market is apparently OK, but I'm not so sure, the town looks dead and listings are sitting for a looooong time. The sales market is very weak with the farang buyers having almost disappeared.

Pattaya is very strong with farangs driving the condo market and Thai's the SFHs. Unsurprisingly the condo prices have skyrocketed. "Oh, that's only 50,000 pounds. Its so cheap!"

Pattaya is very strong? The condo prices have skyrocketed? I have friends who just got back from Sattahip and that certainly was not there impression of the market in Pattaya They have been back for nearly three weeks though, perhaps the market in Pattaya just recently skyrocketed, or could it be that you have an interest in promoting the Pattaya real estate market? No! That would never be allowed to occur on thaivisa

I have no interest in promoting the Pattaya market. I have no property or development interests there. In the interests of full disclosure, I do in Bangkok, Phuket and Khao Yai.

What is your friend's background in Thai real estate that gives them the experience to judge a market?

[PadThaiGuy]

Go for the best location.

.

A man goes to a San Francisco Steak House, gets the bill and exclaims to the waiter, "I can get a steak twice this size at half the price back in Kansas City"!

The waiter repiles. "Yes sir, but when you are finished eating it, you will still be in Kansas City".

[thaigene2]

Go for the best location.

.

A man goes to a San Francisco Steak House, gets the bill and exclaims to the waiter, "I can get a steak twice this size at half the price back in Kansas City"!

The waiter repiles. "Yes sir, but when you are finished eating it, you will still be in Kansas City".

A guy goes into a brothel in Pattaya and says "I can get a girl twice that size at twice the price back in Kansas City".

The mamasan replies: "Yes sir, but when you are finished, the girl will still be twice the size, your wallet will be half the size -- and you'll still be in Kansas City".

[alive555]

Yes correct

Thats exactly what i said and ill say it again;-

1. The top end of the market is v v strong repeat v v strong. I expect 185 Rajdamri to hit well over 350k. Avg price will be 40Mb. Theres 200 units. If they were auctioned you could sell 2000 units. There are only 200. If you want one register and see how easy it is to actually get the opportunity to buy one.

2. The non top end of the market is not strong. ie ive seen condos sold recently for less than they were bought for 1-2 years ago off plan . And thats just the start - i expect that prices WILL FALL IN MANY PROJECTS IN THE NEXT 12 MONTHS BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY CONDOS IN THE SAME PLACE . PARTICULARLY SUKHUMVIT. There are too many people out there who really cannot afford to transfer their unit. If you want to test this go along to any suk condo about to complete and tell them u want to buy. You will get lots of offers... Thats what you would do if you had cash and were smart.

Thai gene you dont appear to understand what drives property prices up and yes down.

" Perhaps The River defies your laws of gravity? Not mine - unless those laws of purchase are levitated by "dirty laundry". Rich people (usually) aren't stupid enough to over-pay for 'anything'. So then...?? "

So then id say to you - what would you say to me if i told you Raimon sold 1.27 Billion baht last month in February alone in the River ? thats what i call strong what do u call it ?

[quiksilva]

The point is nobody here believes that developers are really selling, no matter what you say. I know, I gave up on this thread along time ago because there is no convincing some people.

The fact is is that if developers were not able to sell they would not continue to supply.

Developers and banks have learned to listen to the market, 1997 taught them this lesson already. This can be seen in the number and frequency of new launches.

Ask yourself has there been more or less advertising aimed at the grade A sector recently in Bangkok, and for the record by grade A I do not mean ultra luxury.

[thaigene2]

You guys miss my point.

I SO AGREE that places are "selling" at top end (at least at 'point of sale - which means 'deposit' NOTE NOT DELIVERY - which we all know is BS - but never mind that).

1. YES - people are laying down a deposit for the big ticket places. Is it REAL money? Is the plan to flip (as in gamble as the sino-thais like to do to some other person - with no thought given to this since it's grandapa's money and he got it by being 'close' to some other pooyai general or whatever? No personal loss involved..) OR?? is it money laundering? Cause, guess what? If I had a million USD on a holiday home - would I spend it here in BANGKOK? Would you?? Come on - HOW MANY WOULD DO THAT 3 or 4 or 5 people in T-O-T-A-L ?

2. Given answers to number 1 - 'Yes of course the developer's continue to supply'. Wouldn't YOU?

SO WHAT ARE YOUR POINTS FOR ME AND THE OTHER 'NORMAL' PEOPLE HERE? "Oh look, everything's fine - look the rich people are buying!' Is that it? What a laugh.

[thaigene2]

Yes correct

" Perhaps The River defies your laws of gravity? Not mine - unless those laws of purchase are levitated by "dirty laundry". Rich people (usually) aren't stupid enough to over-pay for 'anything'. So then...?? "

So then id say to you - what would you say to me if i told you Raimon sold 1.27 Billion baht last month in February alone in the River ? thats what i call strong what do u call it ?

Oh my, He, he, he --

Okay, well then I'd say - show me the 1.27 Billion Baht in the bank pal.. Not the 'sold' signs on little coloured dots of paper glued over units -- cause that's a "lightweight" used-car salesman's pitch. Works for some, I'll admit - amd keeps many lightwweights employed - but for others - well, it sounds like the Bali and Costas 'professionals' at work..

Sorry for editing twice - but does anyone have any doubts any more about the condo market? This is getting boring..

Edited March 27, 2008 by thaigene2

[quiksilva]

No TG my point is, the rich are buying, the middle income earners have already been catered to, the developers are not focussed on this group anymore.

You ask is it real money? If by this you mean does the developer receive the agreed funds, then yes of course it is, if it wasn't ask yourself again would the developers continue to supply? You also mention money launderring, which I have also flippantly mentioned before, and yes I suspect that this happens, but it is not at the levels where it can drive the whole market.

Remember, that no matter how much your experience tells you otherwise, this is not a little village we are talking about here, the Thai residential market is substantial. Be it condos housing, you name it. This is a highly populated country with a growing middle class and a very wealthy upper class. then factor expats, on work permits retirement visas, no visa, no work permits, tourists, occasional visitors... the list goes on, but in summary the market is considerable.

Think about it. No really think about it, with an open logical mind.

If the developers didn't receive the full funds from purchasers they wouldn't be able to start the next project, why would they even want to? The banks wouldnt back them and what's in it for them?

An uncontrollable desire to be bankrupt?!!!!?????

[ray08]

Yes correct

Thats exactly what i said and ill say it again;-

1. The top end of the market is v v strong repeat v v strong. I expect 185 Rajdamri to hit well over 350k. Avg price will be 40Mb. Theres 200 units. If they were auctioned you could sell 2000 units. There are only 200. If you want one register and see how easy it is to actually get the opportunity to buy one.

AUCTION my favourite way of selling when a market is going up fast and everyone wants to buy , just put it to auction and when market really hot , they offer you very high prices even before auction, and at auction the reserve gets blown away ,

Well since the Thai market is so hot , and all developers and investors want to make a lot of money why do we have second hand properties sitting on the market for months , if not years ??

As for new developments ,you said it yourself ,they can sell 2000 units at 185 Rajdamri not 200, surely that being the case ,why not test the market and Auction the presales or give out to tender for 30 days , that way the developer would sell out in a month and at top dollar ,and close sales office down , won,t happen because demand not there to pay such high prices ,

Auctions i beleive is the best vaulation of a item becuase it is the value of what someone will pay for that item at a certain point in time , and IMO is the correct value ,In Sydney when market was crazy auction clearance and prices acheived were through the roof ,now very dangerous to go to auction because when not sold you burn the property , if Bangkok market so strong and i beleive Thai,s are smart business people why not push the auction way of selling and see what happens , they don,t do it because like i said they are smart and do not want to burn the property with properties passed in at low prices to the asking price

Edited March 28, 2008 by ray08

[PadThaiGuy]

also....consider this is Thailand (TIT) and there is a good chance of fraud at these auctions.

[Theyreallrubbish]

You guys miss my point.

I SO AGREE that places are "selling" at top end (at least at 'point of sale - which means 'deposit' NOTE NOT DELIVERY - which we all know is BS - but never mind that).

1. YES - people are laying down a deposit for the big ticket places. Is it REAL money? Is the plan to flip (as in gamble as the sino-thais like to do to some other person - with no thought given to this since it's grandapa's money and he got it by being 'close' to some other pooyai general or whatever? No personal loss involved..) OR?? is it money laundering? Cause, guess what? If I had a million USD on a holiday home - would I spend it here in BANGKOK? Would you?? Come on - HOW MANY WOULD DO THAT 3 or 4 or 5 people in T-O-T-A-L ?

2. Given answers to number 1 - 'Yes of course the developer's continue to supply'. Wouldn't YOU?

SO WHAT ARE YOUR POINTS FOR ME AND THE OTHER 'NORMAL' PEOPLE HERE? "Oh look, everything's fine - look the rich people are buying!' Is that it? What a laugh.

Well I know 3 people personally who have bought million dollar condos in Bangkok. So I only need to meet 2 more and I'll have met EVERY buyer!

One of these guys bought three units so maybe I have met every single buyer in Bangkok. Wow! I must be some kind of networking god!

[kdbkk]

Most of the Thais I know own either a house or condo (or more) that were bought for from half a million to more than a million dollars. Most of them own a house and a few condos. At least 30 people that I know and they have kids who also own the high end condos or in the process of buying to have a place call their own.

These people don't have just one kid and the new generations don't want to live in the family compound any more. Just my observation.

Unlike in the West, most thais do stay in the family compound even after marriage but things are changing now.