How To Handle Corrupt Officials

[Khun Bob]

I just wondered if anyone had any tips on how to handle corrupt officials - some concerns I have are :

* Do you go with it or challenge it ?

* What are the implications of going with it or challenging it ?

* How do you challenge it ?

* When and where is is most likely to happen ?

* How can you avoid/prevent it ?

I have a concern that if I would like to stay in a country where this can happen, I dont want to fall victim to this and be forced into losing money, having the leave the country or worse still having physical damage !

Thanks and look forward to your replies...

[danoco70]

I was quite happy (under the circumstances) handing over 40000 Bht to a police captain at a certain bangkok cop shop. I won't say what for

[BlueTa]

Corruption is not easy to get rid of, especially in poor countries but I think the present government is doing something about it.

Not as much as they could but it is not that easy and you have to start somewhere.

Besides, what was done in the past?

[qwertyuiop]

I just wondered if anyone had any tips on how to handle corrupt officials - some concerns I have are :

* Do you go with it or challenge it ?

* What are the implications of going with it or challenging it ?

* How do you challenge it ?

* When and where is is most likely to happen ?

* How can you avoid/prevent it ?

I have a concern that if I would like to stay in a country where this can happen, I dont want to fall victim to this and be forced into losing money, having the leave the country or worse still having physical damage !

Thanks and look forward to your replies...

Don't corrupt officials exist in every country. It is just a question of how many there are and exactly what are the rules of the game.

Having read a couple of your threads I have the impression that you have not spent much time in Thailand but would like to.

My advice come over and try it a little bit at a time. In general the place does not bite. The worst case scenarios are not an everyday occurence. Like all places it can take some getting used to and not everything is wonderful but there agaian i can think of no place that is.

I stay here because i want to but that does not mean there are no frustrations.

don't fret so come over here and have a look see. You might be pleasanttly suprised.

[Ajarn]

Corruption is not easy to get rid of, especially in poor countries but I think the present government is doing something about it.

I'd say the present government hasn't done shit about corruption except to expand and refine for maximum payoff. I'd LOVE to see any evidence to the contrary.

On one hand, I appreciate corruption because it does help to smooth some situations to my advantage- or at least not to my disadvantage. Sometimes

On the other hand, it signals a society out of control, where true justice and responsibility and honesty have little place, and nothing is transparent outside of the corruption itself. One simply can not trust the system to work fairly or honestly.

When dealing with some government offices, like Customs and the police, my experience has been that corruption is the norm, and most anything can be taken care of for the right price. Lots of back-handers.

Oftentimes, the corruption is in the form of express service, meaning you don't have to wait hours, days, months to do your business there. When foreigners used to have to get tax clearance certificates, we had to pay from 400-1000 to get the paperwork processed quickly. The cert is free, but you'd have to show lots of paperwork, including paperwork showing a Thai putting up money or land title as a guarantee that you'll pay your taxes- for whatever. Then comes the wait....In Songkhla, 415 baht got you out of the office inside of 15 minutes...

I recently had a situation with Customs when I recieved a paintball gun from the US. Too make a long story short, they were happy to accept 12,000 baht under the table to dispose of any of the legaly required paperwork and required government permits (like the import license they said was required and could only be gotten in Bkk). Here's the whole story on that.... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15612

The magic words to clue in governent officials that you would like to do business more 'informally' is, '" Khaw chuay noy, dai mai khrap?" ( Can I ask for your assistance, please?).

Of course, you always have the option to not participate in the corruption. but I wouldn't make a big deal about it with them or anyone else if you choose not to pay, because doing so could put you in a very vulnerable situation, safety-wise, even if everyone is smiling and acting very friendly....

[joinme2leave]

....compared to western european

CHARGE-AND-TAX-FOR-EVERY-LITTLE-SHIT-THING-SYSTEM

I'd rather prefer to pay my relatively small share of "traditional"

CORRUPTION FEE

in asia....

[Totster]

Like everything.... it has it upsides and it's downsides...

[Tornado]

Pay it if it is not a big amount. Befriend a high up official is also an idea.

If your not in "harms way", you wont come across this very often - I havent in about 3 years now, so it is not a weekly occurance. Dont worry, carry on.

[Thaiboxer]

Ajarn,

All that trouble for a paintball gun? Two years ago before we moved here, I had checked out some Thai customs info that stated a requirement for police granted permission to import firearms/ammo. I had some guns that I wanted to bring over but it looked as if it would be impossible to get them here legally. A Thai official from the Thai Embassy in DC had told me that I should just buy one here in Thailand (they're double the price because of taxes). I believe Thai law classifies ANY gun that uses an explosive charge or even compressed air (like paintball guns) as firearms. Where I'm from (Florida) there are very few laws concerning airguns...in fact I'm not sure if they're even classified as firearms. Legally, foreigners can't even own an airgun here unless they're one of the few who can legally own a real gun.

[Nemesis]

Now now boys, let's not have any more of this "anti-Thai sentiment." There are no courrupt Thai officials. At least we are not supposed to talk about that here.

[Ajarn]

Ajarn,

    All that trouble for a paintball gun? Two years ago before we moved here, I had checked out some Thai customs info that stated a requirement for police granted permission to import firearms/ammo. I had some guns that I wanted to bring over but it looked as if it would be impossible to get them here legally. A Thai official from the Thai Embassy in DC had told me that I should just buy one here in Thailand (they're double the price because of taxes). I believe Thai law classifies ANY gun that uses an explosive charge or even compressed air (like paintball guns) as firearms. Where I'm from (Florida) there are very few laws concerning airguns...in fact I'm not sure if they're even classified as firearms. Legally, foreigners can't even own an airgun here unless they're one of the few who can legally own a real gun.

Thaiboxer, ....During the Customs fiasco, my paintball gun was either a gun, or a 'children's toy', depending on...well, I don't really what it depended on, except that it seemed to me that it depended on which would be more problematic for me to comply with. In Thai, they would say that the officials were trying to 'beep ngern', literally, 'squeeze money'.... Of course, I could refuse any part of the process, including the squeezing, but the end result would have been 35,000 baht down the tubes... I did have every intention of complying with the law, but they made that virtually impossible...

By the way, the same gun is sold openly in Thailand, albeit for approximately double the cost of purchasing overseas. No permit is required for it's purchase, nor is any permit required for possesion.

[andyadam]

OFF TOPIC

Sorry guys but where can I get hold of a paintball gun, I sometimes need one for work!

[Insight]

OFF TOPIC

Sorry guys but where can I get hold of a paintball gun, I sometimes need one for work!

Off topic again, soz...

Same here, to give them noisy soi dogs a psychedelic touch.

[Limbo]

OFF TOPIC

Sorry guys but where can I get hold of a paintball gun, I sometimes need one for work!

Me too, I wonder how I can have been living so long without owning one.

Let's all get paintball-guns.

Where do you use them for? Instead of brushes or rollers? Let's shoot that window green and the door brown?

If you live a normal life in Thailand and obey the law, you probably never run into corruption.

I suppose this paintball-guns are tools for house-painters, but this person thinking about importing fire-arms to Thailand better stays home.

I you are so afraid to come to Thailand that you think you have to be armed here, than you are a walking insult to this country.

Thai people are lovely peaceful people.

If you adjust.

If you come here to fight and shoot, you will be the looser you already seem to be.

[Som Nam Na]

Corruption is a fact of life here but the less you know...the more vulnerable you are to coercion for extortionate amounts.

I have often negotiated a reasonable settlement in many cases where the outcome was to "grease the wheels" rather than grab every penny I had (although they did try it on) purely and simply because I was informed of the rules and regulations regarding the matter.

A trivial example..........

Stopped for wearing no helmet by the boys in brown...ok fair cop. How much???? 1000THB.

Why did that man just give you 300THB......"him Thai, you farang".

But the tourist police said that the maximum fine was UPTO 400 at the descretion of the officer!

"Ok 300 THB"

[Ajarn]

If you live a normal life in Thailand and obey the law, you probably never run into corruption.

I wish that were true.

But, I do believe that if you live a normal life and obey the laws here, you are unlikley to have many problems. But, sometimes, Shit just happens, na'?

[Ajarn]

OFF TOPIC

Sorry guys but where can I get hold of a paintball gun, I sometimes need one for work!

Off topic again, soz...

Same here, to give them noisy soi dogs a psychedelic touch.

http://mtc.rta.mi.th/plan/intra/paintball/

[Thaiboxer]

Limbo...No need to call anyone a loser here...Thailand is safer than many Western countries/cities but it does have an EXTREMELY high murder rate and Thais can be just as violent/crazy as any Westerner...anybody with common sense would know this....I do of course hope common sense is a trait you posses. FYI I didn't want to bring my guns to Thailand for self-defense (although they could be used for that if need be). I happen to enjoy shooting at the ranges or wherever it's practical/not dangerous. Thais are lovely, peaceful people (most of them) but with all the stuff going on these days you wonder if you may need to arm yourself against the scum of society. Most crime against people doesn't involve foreigners (except those involved in seedy businesses) but ocassionally people get killed for nothing like the poor guy in Chiang Mai. In a case like that having gun would be good. In most cases in the US it's been proven time and time again that just pointing it at the bad guy will stop him from trying to harm you. Makes him think twice.

Ajarn...35,000 is a bit steep for importing an airgun. Maybe better to just buy one at a local market (no corrupt customs guys to deal with) and then you can have paintball wars with your buddies. Never tried paintball myself but it looks pretty cool if you can find a nice place to do it. Anything that passes through customs here is at risk of being stolen/altered/eaten/drunk before if ever gets to you!

[Ajarn]

Ajarn...35,000 is a bit steep for importing an airgun. Maybe better to just buy one at a local market

Guess you didn't notice where I said the cost locally was twice the cost of buying overseas. Even with customs, I'm still saving 10's of thousands of baht.

Customs is just one of those things that one deals with at times here. No real sweat

[phormio]

Does anyone ever get arrested and charged for trying to bribe a police officer(or other official) ?

What's the penalty for that?

And lets not forget, the corruption follows the money,

and where's the biggest concentration of wealth in the early 21st century.

That's right - my homeland.

[Coffee Dude]

Ajarn...35,000 is a bit steep for importing an airgun. Maybe better to just buy one at a local market

Guess you didn't notice where I said the cost locally was twice the cost of buying overseas. Even with customs, I'm still saving 10's of thousands of baht.

Customs is just one of those things that one deals with at times here. No real sweat

I'm waay off topic here but...

It seems you have a battle course somewhere. Is it against forum policy to ask where it is. I love the game.

Coffee!!!

[Ajarn]

Ajarn...35,000 is a bit steep for importing an airgun. Maybe better to just buy one at a local market

Guess you didn't notice where I said the cost locally was twice the cost of buying overseas. Even with customs, I'm still saving 10's of thousands of baht.

Customs is just one of those things that one deals with at times here. No real sweat

I'm waay off topic here but...

It seems you have a battle course somewhere. Is it against forum policy to ask where it is. I love the game.

Coffee!!!

I'm strictly a tree-shooter, in reality. Though I've fantasized about shooting at much more- like drivers that annoy me

There is a place where they play this game in Pattaya. Here is their website http://www.paintballpark-pattaya.com/

By the way, the paint seems to be very environmentaly friendly (no sign of it the next day, including the casing), and it doesn't stain clothes, either

[RooBoy]

Hmm Paintball guns, that would give new meaning to songkran wouldnt it, expats only, we could all load into the pickup, drive down to Pattaya and deal out a little justice to those idiot tourist/otherwise farangs who take pleasure in hurting others during songkran!!

[Khun Bob]

Thanks for your replies

Wisdom from the posts seems to be...

* Small amounts of money can help speed up processes

* If genuinely wrong it is possible to negotiate

* Doesnt happen that much - following the rules of the country helps !

Any further comments, wisdom or experience appreciated !

Cheers