Can The Language Barrier Drive A Farang Out Of The Kingdom Eventually?

[BigSnake]

No I don't think, most any place you go in this country someone can understand enough english(?) to speak with understanding to most farang. Know a little simple Thai can go a long ways.

[skippybangkok]

OK,

Here is a trick question. Why are all menus / prices written in Thai, always have the arabic ( our style ) of numerals, and the only time they use thai numerals is when there is double pricing.

[Pepe']

OK,

Here is a trick question. Why are all menus / prices written in Thai, always have the arabic ( our style ) of numerals, and the only time they use thai numerals is when there is double pricing.

-------------------------------

Standard corporate procedure.

"Cut costs and increase profits."

[intumult]

I must admit I'm really confused...

If your referring to my post , I must admit its not the most articulate.

Let me try again.

I think anybody who has trouble with the tones would have a much easier time if they learnt to read Thai.

I don't read Thai and have learnt all of my spoken Thai by listening to people and then mimicking the sound that they make and hopefully understanding what it meant.

I appreciate that not everybody can do this.

I also find that now I'm speaking less Thai (my situation has changed) it becomes a more of a struggle to put understandable sentences together even though my vocabulary remains. Its a use it or lose it thing. I still listen to a lot of Thai and understand more now than before. The more you practice listening and understanding the better you get.

If I learn to read Thai I will be able to see how the words are formed and pronounced, I will also have a much better understanding of the construct of sentences.

Going a bit further with the tone deafness thing, anybody who can appreciate the difference between an English "B" and "P" is not tone deaf , but we are used to hearing that difference. Its because we are not used to hearing the different tones and their usage that makes it difficult.

It may seem difficult to learn to speak Thai, but I refuse to believe that its impossible. Anybody who says they cannot I challenge you to go away and complete the courses available at a school similar to this one http://www.utl-school.com/english/home.php and then come back and still say you cannot communicate here.

Hope that its clearer and not at all nasty , that was never my intention.

Cheers

What a crock of sh*t. IMHO. Regarding tone deafness and hearing the B/P in spoken english.

People who are tone deaf and have hearing difficulties can still decipher the difference between B/P when spoken by a good English speaker. We use our brains and our eyes to do so. We often use the rest of the word and the fuller context of the sentence to understand what is being said and also lip read to some degree.

Often my Thai friends have to write down the 1st letter of a word (and often the whole word) where there are similarities.

I cannot 'see' the words they say, so knowing the Thai alphabet would be useless when listening to a Thai speak.

The same can be said for M/N, especially as the Thais use tones a lot more than you average English speaker.

Unless you have a disability I do believe you can never fully appreciate the difficulties. I do not go around with a sign sticking out of my ear telling people I am deaf. If, for example, i had a leg amputated, then it would be pretty dam_ obvious to anyone with reasonable eyesight as I hopped about.

[Jingthing]

I think there alot of intolerant people here. It is very common for OLDER immigrants to countries all over the world to never really learn the new language, while younger people almost always do. This is about age. Respect your elders.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[skippybangkok]

So knowing the Thai alphabet would be useless when listening to a Thai speak.

Well, kinda correct, but not. If you have knowledge of the different class constants and vowels, and the rules that govern tones, you can correctly read the tones. - but even Beethoven would have difficulties with this ( i thought it was like reading music)

Learnt it for about 2 months (2 nights a week), kinda "mastered" it, and then drew the conclusion "F - it".

[thaihome]

You sound lazy to me - Anyone can learn a new language, it's just a matter of persistence.

Following your logic:

I found it very simple to get a job in Thailand that pays me USD200k a year. Anyone that can't do that must be lazy, it is just a matter of persistence.

I share virtually all PB difficulties in learning Thai, but not sure I share his frustrations with it. It would be nice to be able to communicate effectively (or least better) at times, but I have learned to get by as best I can and make allowances for my shortcomings in that area.

TH

[PeaceBlondie]

I said it very nicely at the end of the OP: "But please, if you are going to give me advice, probably you don't want to suggest that I'd learn to speak Thai. Thank you."

My question is, will the lack of speaking Thai eventually tempt a (older) farang to leave the Kingdom?

But hey, if it makes you folks happier, I will learn the alphabet.

[DavidS]

I had an early warning of this when i first came to thailand the first taxi i encountered i said " mandarin hotel please " he replies ok, after 15 minutes of driving, he turns around and says " where you go ' ,. i should have heeded that warning,.

When I first came to Thailand, I did not have the benefit of a forum like this to help me understand things, so it took me 6 months of being hot and bothered before I finally figured out that when a Thai taxi driver says OK, he simply means "Yes, I will take you." In no way does he mean that he has a clue where the place is.

I had some interesting journeys to strange places before I sorted this one out.

[trader1]

.

Sorry that the language is so frustrating to learn, and it is a very difficult language to learn, however, the more interaction you have with the Thai's - the easier the communications gap, in whatever form, is bridged.

Thai is not a hard language- I would say it is one of the easier in the world. A simple and intuitive grammer. Consistent spelling , pleasant to listen to, an easy to learn alphabet, etc.

[Neeranam]

To learn to read thai at a basic level (which is not being able to read the tones) , would take ummmmmmmm

1 week.

(maybe 1 hour per day). It really is that simple. If thats too much, then i guess its best call it quits.

From that point onwards, can grow your vocab slowly. I was constantly reading bi-lingual signs when i was traveling, and bit by bit you pick all kinds of usefull stuff ( i.e. toilet / chemist / DVD shop / tire repair, "available for rent", thai price v.s. falang price at tourist attractions etc - the list goes on )

It took me 1 month, about half an hour every other day to read Thai. I know a guy who has been here over 40 years who can't do it, can't even speak Thai. He uses the "dodgy ear" excuse.

Why are you so scared? especially those of you who don't work.

[DavidS]

I said it very nicely at the end of the OP: "But please, if you are going to give me advice, probably you don't want to suggest that I'd learn to speak Thai. Thank you."

My question is, will the lack of speaking Thai eventually tempt a (older) farang to leave the Kingdom?

But hey, if it makes you folks happier, I will learn the alphabet.

PB, looking at this and some of your previous posts, all I can say is that if you are looking for reasons to leave Thailand, there are dozens.

If you are looking for reasons to stay here, there are also dozens.

Spoken language is just 1 means of communication, as many others have noted, and I would add an imperfect one at that. Knowing / speaking Thai helps. It will not solve all your problems. That very much depends on your outlook and how you approach life.

[gunnyd]

I think that Thai immigration law is the real culprit in driving out farangs. Making retirees reapply on a yearly basis? 3x30 exempt stamp rule? need I say more?

[ray08]

I have been living here 4 years , 42 years old .,can speak 4 languages very well , tried 3 courses in thai

and in the end , try as hard as i can , just cannot get around the different tones ,.lucky i live in middle of bangkok , staff are thai but half speak English , so basically plod along, will give it one more try ,but very frustrating language to learn, so in the if OP cannot speak Thai, instead of leaving ,try to stay as much as possible in an enviroment whre you can get away with English and a bit of basic Thai

[dukkha]

Not to be glib pb.......but the old saying....If ya cant stand the heat get outta the kitchen!

For me learning to speak thai was important, it has enriched my 8 years here and made life

a hel_l of a lot more interesting...if I wanna speak english I could have stayed in Australia..

And I was 56 before I could get my tongue around it, still probably bluff my way through

but has made daily living more of a buzz...Not being able to communicate was like living the

life of a mute, not speaking nor being able to listen to what was being said..the expat community

is not my idea of livin the vida loca..adios amigo a go go! Dukkha

[thaihome]

With absolutely no judgment attached, there are just some people for whom verbal communication is more important then others. I think it has do with feeling in control of your life and your surroundings. If you can’t communicate with people other then the bi-lingual ones, it gives does not make you feel very secure. It is something that some people can deal with and not have them bothered. But for a type A person, it could make life hel_l.

TH

[gunnyd]

On the language front, I plan on taking classes and buckling down to learn more Thai. It can be frustrating to try communicate in a land where very few people can speak English. Also you never know if someone is saying something derogatory about you because they assume you can't understand them.

GunnyD

[intumult]

To learn to read thai at a basic level (which is not being able to read the tones) , would take ummmmmmmm

1 week.

(maybe 1 hour per day). It really is that simple. If thats too much, then i guess its best call it quits.

From that point onwards, can grow your vocab slowly. I was constantly reading bi-lingual signs when i was traveling, and bit by bit you pick all kinds of usefull stuff ( i.e. toilet / chemist / DVD shop / tire repair, "available for rent", thai price v.s. falang price at tourist attractions etc - the list goes on )

It took me 1 month, about half an hour every other day to read Thai. I know a guy who has been here over 40 years who can't do it, can't even speak Thai. He uses the "dodgy ear" excuse.

Why are you so scared? especially those of you who don't work.

And if he does have hearing difficulties, is it an excuse? - doesn't stop me trying to learn.

Are not visually impaired people unable to see very well? - doesn't (usually) stop people from reading with the aid of spectacles.

I sometimes think that there is more discrimination against people with physical disadilites and against OAP's than most realise.

Not sure what working or not working has to do with speaking / reading Thai.

PB ... sorry,

As to it contributing to me leaving the country? No!

[Briggsy]

In answer to the OP's question, no. This is not rural China where you may well find nobody can speak a word of English.

However, cultural isolation here can certainly lead to boredom, frustration and loneliness.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

It is very annoying to me to read this c-rap about if you don't learn Thai you are lazy etc. etc. Suggest you get a good set of earplugs put them in and go out and socialise. See what it is like guessing what people are saying and while you are trying to figure out what was just said a whole new bunch of words are there for you to try and grasp. Now when you have that problem in your native language can you even immagin what it would be like in a foreign language?

It is typically not something that happens over night. As you get older your hearing gets worse. Most of the time a hearing aid will solve or help the problem but not always.About 5 years ago I had my hearing tested and found that I was profoundly deal on any frequency above 1,000 Hertz. The average person can hear uip to 17 or 18,000 hertz and this gradually drops as you get older. The average persons voice is between 300-3000 hertz higher for women lower for men.

In the past couple of years my hearing has deteriated even more so I doubt that I can hear anywhere near 1,000 hertz now. A hearing aid you say. Yes I tried the best they had to offer 5 years ago. Very annoying as they amplify what you can hear which is not the problem anyhow and being profoundly deaf above 1,000 means a loss of 90db so impossible to amplify.

That means I don't really watch much TV unless it has sub titles, tend to shy away from people (other than my wife) as it is to difficult to carry on a conversation and I really hate saying what or pardon all the time. It is actually a lot of work to try and analysis what is being said. And if there is more than one person talking or any background noise forget it. Fortunately I have been with my wife long enough that she is very much in tune with my problem and knows how to communicate and when I don't understand she will tell me what has been said. Without her I would become a recluse or hermit.

So dam_n it don't tell me I am just lazy if I don't learn Thai.

Sorry about the rant but I got annoyed by some of the comments. Have a good day

[Spee]

My question is, will the lack of speaking Thai eventually tempt a (older) farang to leave the Kingdom?

Nah, I really don't think so, but it would seem to depend on how long they have been there and what their original reasons were for coming.

I think if people have chosen to retire there for typical reasons like climate, cost, food, people, etc., and have been there for some time and things are working out ok, then lauguage alone won't be enough for them to give themselves the boot. On the other hand, if someone got more than they bargained for during the LoS reloc, then language would just be another excuse to validate a decision to bail.

In other words, I wouldn't think that language difficulties would ever be the main driving reason to stay or to leave. People are generally resourceful. If they want to stay, then they will find a way to make it happen. If they want to go, they will look for any excuse to validate their judgment.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Spee

[Neeranam]

So dam_n it don't tell me I am just lazy if I don't learn Thai.

Do you read it? Then you'll be able to read the Thai subtitles on UBC.

Not sure what working or not working has to do with speaking / reading Thai.

I work about 10 hours a day, spend time with my kids etc, so finding time to improve my Thai is difficult.

People who don't work have all the time in the world - pretty obvious, isn't it? I have a friend who is retired, took classes 5 days a week for about 3 months and speaks very good Thai now.

[siamesekitty]

My question is, will the lack of speaking Thai eventually tempt a (older) farang to leave the Kingdom?

Depends on the person. If a person is fine with living his life not being able to understand what is being said around (and about) him, what is written on most signs, menus, and newspapers, and just basically being unable to communicate with most of the people he meets, then no.

If he would prefer to live his life more fully and would like to communicate with other human beings rather than be a hermit, or is tired of depending on other people to make themselves understood in his language, then yes.

[Naam]

My question is, will the lack of speaking Thai eventually tempt a (older) farang to leave the Kingdom?

Depends on the person. If a person is fine with living his life not being able to understand what is being said around (and about) him, what is written on most signs, menus, and newspapers, and just basically being unable to communicate with most of the people he meets, then no.

If he would prefer to live his life more fully and would like to communicate with other human beings rather than be a hermit, or is tired of depending on other people to make themselves understood in his language, then yes.

a rather arrogant assumption repectively a personal view without any evidence that this assumption is applicable to other people

[Naam]

On the language front, I plan on taking classes and buckling down to learn more Thai. It can be frustrating to try communicate in a land where very few people can speak English. Also you never know if someone is saying something derogatory about you because they assume you can't understand them.

and if you understand what was said about you in a derogatory way will that make you happy?

[November Rain]

My question is, will the lack of speaking Thai eventually tempt a (older) farang to leave the Kingdom?

Depends on the person. If a person is fine with living his life not being able to understand what is being said around (and about) him, what is written on most signs, menus, and newspapers, and just basically being unable to communicate with most of the people he meets, then no.

If he would prefer to live his life more fully and would like to communicate with other human beings rather than be a hermit, or is tired of depending on other people to make themselves understood in his language, then yes.

a rather arrogant assumption repectively a personal view without any evidence that this assumption is applicable to other people

Was just thinking the very same thing.

[siamesekitty]

My question is, will the lack of speaking Thai eventually tempt a (older) farang to leave the Kingdom?

Depends on the person. If a person is fine with living his life not being able to understand what is being said around (and about) him, what is written on most signs, menus, and newspapers, and just basically being unable to communicate with most of the people he meets, then no.

If he would prefer to live his life more fully and would like to communicate with other human beings rather than be a hermit, or is tired of depending on other people to make themselves understood in his language, then yes.

a rather arrogant assumption repectively a personal view without any evidence that this assumption is applicable to other people

Was just thinking the very same thing.

Perhaps I should have worded it differently. Personally, life was very difficult for me before I knew how to speak Thai. And it was a painful learning process.

[siamesekitty]

Anyway, apologies if anyone "thinks too much" about it.

[November Rain]

Anyway, apologies if anyone "thinks too much" about it.

No probs. I wouldn't count the 15 seconds it took to type half a dozen words as 'thinking too much'.

[ignoramus]

Absolutely no disrespect PB...... having read your previous post re leaving/remaining in 'the kingdom' I believe that, but for your partner, you would leave ASAP.

Does he not help you with Thai? Do you not ask for help? Is he a lazy Thai? Are you a lazy farlang?

Your original question is - again no disrespect - a tad self-indulgent.

For you I expect Mexico and or Texas is fast becoming/has always been alluring, but for one obstacle - your partner.

I fancy that his desire to remain here is almost as strong as yours to leave. Your bond is strong I suspect, but tinged with seriously conflicted and unrelated needs (he is and feels at home, you want to feel more 'at home').

I reckon there's a serious gap in the mutual understanding of each other's needs, complicated by, of course, wholly inadequate language communication.

You doubtless love each other, but the intellectual understanding quite possibly leaves you both frustrated, and indeed mystified. You have my sympathy.