People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[h90]

notoriously incompetent puppet government

It made some big progress in several areas that the current government is trying to undo. 2007 was an average year for most people, 2008 looks a lot harder.

I hold no brief for the current government but unlike its predecessor it has an electoral mandate.I'm dubious about your "big progress" proposition but in any case even if true it's like apologists for fascism saying Mussolini made the trains run on time, ie not strictly speaking the point.Anyway our hopes now lie with our ex- English public schoolboys Abhisit, Korn etc though my hero worship of the former is being tested at the moment given his comments on the FCCT fiasco in August 2007.Future historians might consider looking back that in May 2008 Thailand had rather more important issues to deal with than some twerp's indiscrete comments (though the transcipt I have seen is pretty unexceptional) at a private meeting several months earlier.

Thats exactly the point: It has most probably NO electoral mandate. Because they must rush to change that part in the constitution which will cause a dissolve of 3 parties of the coalition because of fraud.

If they would change whatever else in the constitution no one would go on the street. Actually they seem to be sure that they get dissolved.

[hammered]

With Chart Thai seemingly now calling for Jakrapobs removal and an abandonment of the charter revision, it seems things are coming to a head at least in this round of events.

Story from the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074188

Yes perhaps. But to me the way this gets resolved is either:

1. the Charter amendments go through, there is a refernendum as has been promised, and it succeeds or falls - fine.

2. the coalition partners start to turn on PPP/Samak and the Minority Government falls, and elections are called by HM the King - fine.

Or - and this is what I think is going to happen..we'll see though:

3. The PAD types find another thing, then another thing, then another thing to keep up their disruptive demos to try to force another coup because of 'social divisions' - which of course are being caused by a small minority with megahorns who block the traffic. They know they can't win an election - so a coup is the best answer for them to return Thailand to the semi-fuedal status quo where the civil servants and oligarch families run the country for themselves - NOT fine.

And by the way, I didn't say the 90% are Thakisn supporters..but nice try h90 - that's rather similar to the number 3 tactic, non?

There could be a coup although I think would be less inclined to think that would happen barring any earth shattering event. Things could play out through the parliamentary or electoral manner although I think it may be more complicated. The actual players behind the scenes could very well hammer out a deal. The problem with that is on both sides there are now others who have their own interests: obviously the PAD dont want a behind the scenes deal (there are plenty on the "elite" side who would be happy to a deal and abandon the PAD) but there are also the supporters of say Jakrapob who also on the other side dont want a deal (and there are certainly PPP people who would quite happily abandon J and the Daad as part of a deal to get their people back in play). Persoanlly I think this could be a bit harder to predict than usual, and because of the complicated set of groupings it will be harder for anyone to find common ground if they want to of course.

When I say the current set of events are comign to a head I dont mean that is final, just we may get a clash imminently or more likely in my opinion we will see a temporary release of pressure with some backing down on both sides. There are still a whole lot of flash points to coem even if we get past this one, and I am not sure anyone now is really sure whether they have enough in-parliament or extra-parliamentary support to push too far.

[h90]

With Chart Thai seemingly now calling for Jakrapobs removal and an abandonment of the charter revision, it seems things are coming to a head at least in this round of events.

Story from the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074188

Yes perhaps. But to me the way this gets resolved is either:

1. the Charter amendments go through, there is a refernendum as has been promised, and it succeeds or falls - fine.

2. the coalition partners start to turn on PPP/Samak and the Minority Government falls, and elections are called by HM the King - fine.

Or - and this is what I think is going to happen..we'll see though:

3. The PAD types find another thing, then another thing, then another thing to keep up their disruptive demos to try to force another coup because of 'social divisions' - which of course are being caused by a small minority with megahorns who block the traffic. They know they can't win an election - so a coup is the best answer for them to return Thailand to the semi-fuedal status quo where the civil servants and oligarch families run the country for themselves - NOT fine.

And by the way, I didn't say the 90% are Thakisn supporters..but nice try h90 - that's rather similar to the number 3 tactic, non?

There could be a coup although I think would be less inclined to think that would happen barring any earth shattering event. Things could play out through the parliamentary or electoral manner although I think it may be more complicated. The actual players behind the scenes could very well hammer out a deal. The problem with that is on both sides there are now others who have their own interests: obviously the PAD dont want a behind the scenes deal (there are plenty on the "elite" side who would be happy to a deal and abandon the PAD) but there are also the supporters of say Jakrapob who also on the other side dont want a deal (and there are certainly PPP people who would quite happily abandon J and the Daad as part of a deal to get their people back in play). Persoanlly I think this could be a bit harder to predict than usual, and because of the complicated set of groupings it will be harder for anyone to find common ground if they want to of course.

When I say the current set of events are comign to a head I dont mean that is final, just we may get a clash imminently or more likely in my opinion we will see a temporary release of pressure with some backing down on both sides. There are still a whole lot of flash points to coem even if we get past this one, and I am not sure anyone now is really sure whether they have enough in-parliament or extra-parliamentary support to push too far.

When it get worse, a coup may happen or the HM the King speak in TV what happened in the past.

[sriracha john]

There are calls for setting up a Constitution Drafting Assembly to represent all sectors of society, not just government MPs. Democrats are going to submit their own proposal on how to proceed with amendments regardless of what PPP is doing.

Where were they when a military dictatorship was pushing through a referendum on exactly the same issue. Collective amnesia??

So you tacitly concede that they are doing the right thing now and so you decided to throw another tantrum on last year's issue. Let me guess, if I answer that, you'll jump on to something else and fire off another round of abuse in random direction without ever acknowledging screwing up your previous attempts.

Tested Sunrise07 tactic - when taken to task, change the subject and display lots of enthusiasm to sound like you are genuinly interested. Never answer any questions and never argue your points, just keep "attacking".

As for 2007 referendum - what were Democrats supposed to do about it? They said that voting for the new constitution was better than voting against, for all parties concerned. They had their reservations and thought they could correct constitution shortcomings later on. They are still commited to amending it, just not now and not the way PPP goes about it.

Exactly...

These points have already been addressed in the mega-threads that were devoted to them last year and even 2 years ago...

[Old Man River]

With Chart Thai seemingly now calling for Jakrapobs removal and an abandonment of the charter revision, it seems things are coming to a head at least in this round of events.

Story from the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074188

Yes perhaps. But to me the way this gets resolved is either:

1. the Charter amendments go through, there is a refernendum as has been promised, and it succeeds or falls - fine.

2. the coalition partners start to turn on PPP/Samak and the Minority Government falls, and elections are called by HM the King - fine.

Or - and this is what I think is going to happen..we'll see though:

3. The PAD types find another thing, then another thing, then another thing to keep up their disruptive demos to try to force another coup because of 'social divisions' - which of course are being caused by a small minority with megahorns who block the traffic. They know they can't win an election - so a coup is the best answer for them to return Thailand to the semi-fuedal status quo where the civil servants and oligarch families run the country for themselves - NOT fine.

And by the way, I didn't say the 90% are Thakisn supporters..but nice try h90 - that's rather similar to the number 3 tactic, non?

There could be a coup although I think would be less inclined to think that would happen barring any earth shattering event. Things could play out through the parliamentary or electoral manner although I think it may be more complicated. The actual players behind the scenes could very well hammer out a deal. The problem with that is on both sides there are now others who have their own interests: obviously the PAD dont want a behind the scenes deal (there are plenty on the "elite" side who would be happy to a deal and abandon the PAD) but there are also the supporters of say Jakrapob who also on the other side dont want a deal (and there are certainly PPP people who would quite happily abandon J and the Daad as part of a deal to get their people back in play). Persoanlly I think this could be a bit harder to predict than usual, and because of the complicated set of groupings it will be harder for anyone to find common ground if they want to of course.

When I say the current set of events are comign to a head I dont mean that is final, just we may get a clash imminently or more likely in my opinion we will see a temporary release of pressure with some backing down on both sides. There are still a whole lot of flash points to coem even if we get past this one, and I am not sure anyone now is really sure whether they have enough in-parliament or extra-parliamentary support to push too far.

Right on.

I think the PAD wants a clash. They are already talking about it not being their fault if it happens. Given the short tempered "other side", I think ultimately this is inevitable.

[edwardandtubs]

Watching the live coverage of their protest all I saw was some weirdo ranting like Hitler and a bunch of hippies with guitars singing crap rock songs. Why don't they focus on issues that people care about like health care, fair loans and education? It's no wonder most poor Thais support Thaksin instead of this bunch of out-of-touch middle class hippies.

[Plus]

1. the Charter amendments go through, there is a refernendum as has been promised, and it succeeds or falls - fine.

Important point - they've decided to hold the referendum first, if it fails, no amendments at all, for the time being.

2. the coalition partners start to turn on PPP/Samak and the Minority Government falls, and elections are called by HM the King - fine.

Fresh elections are in nobody's interests, they won't go beyond stopping charter rewrite as both Banharn and Snoh indicated already.

3. The PAD types find another thing, then another thing, then another thing

They came to the streets after two year hiatus and only after "all other methods of communicating with the government failed", to quote on of their leaders. They have been very clear about conditions for starting this new round of protests - check the first few pages of this thread.

There's no reason to suggest they will continue their rallies if the government abandons their current rewrite campaign.

And here is additional

4. The government finally accepts advice of Democrats, PAD and academics and follows the democratic way of amending the constution - public hearings, CDA, and, finally referendum. The junta could do it, why not this self-proclaimed "democratic" government?

Realistically, even the current timeframe for referedum followed by rewrite cannot compete with judicial process well underway. The government might lose Chart Thai and Matchima, and so the support in parlament to bulldoze their vote through. Numbers are not on their side, they need all "swing" MPs and half the Senate to toe the line, which looks very unlikely at the moment.

[Old Man River]

Watching the live coverage of their protest all I saw was some weirdo ranting like Hitler and a bunch of hippies with guitars singing crap rock songs. Why don't they focus on issues that people care about like health care, fair loans and education? It's no wonder most poor Thais support Thaksin instead of this bunch of out-of-touch middle class hippies.

The PAD has some real issues that they support. You can't always go by what you think you see on TV.

[edwardandtubs]

Watching the live coverage of their protest all I saw was some weirdo ranting like Hitler and a bunch of hippies with guitars singing crap rock songs. Why don't they focus on issues that people care about like health care, fair loans and education? It's no wonder most poor Thais support Thaksin instead of this bunch of out-of-touch middle class hippies.

The PAD has some real issues that they support. You can't always go by what you think you see on TV.

I don't but this was live coverage from (I believe) their own channel or at least a channel covering the rally non-stop all day. They may have "real issues" that they claim to support to try to win them some support but the reality is they're a single issue protest group for middle class hippies with nothing to offer ordinary people but their redundant "Stop Thaksin!" slogans.

[Plus]

It is a singe issue protest group indeed. Right now it's stop changing consitution to benefit yourselves and Thaksin. I think it's a very important issue.

[Plus]

It is a singe issue protest group indeed. Right now it's stop changing consitution to benefit yourselves and Thaksin. I think it's a very important issue.

[moo9]

Jakrapob - this guy really has to resign by himself or get kicked.

He even did not express any excuse, so time is over for him.

Bored with these idiots who think it is cool to talk against the Thai Monarchy. Where would be Thailand without the King?!

[thaigene2]

notoriously incompetent puppet government

It made some big progress in several areas that the current government is trying to undo. 2007 was an average year for most people, 2008 looks a lot harder.

I hold no brief for the current government but unlike its predecessor it has an electoral mandate.I'm dubious about your "big progress" proposition but in any case even if true it's like apologists for fascism saying Mussolini made the trains run on time, ie not strictly speaking the point.Anyway our hopes now lie with our ex- English public schoolboys Abhisit, Korn etc though my hero worship of the former is being tested at the moment given his comments on the FCCT fiasco in August 2007.Future historians might consider looking back that in May 2008 Thailand had rather more important issues to deal with than some twerp's indiscrete comments (though the transcipt I have seen is pretty unexceptional) at a private meeting several months earlier.

Thats exactly the point: It has most probably NO electoral mandate. Because they must rush to change that part in the constitution which will cause a dissolve of 3 parties of the coalition because of fraud.

If they would change whatever else in the constitution no one would go on the street. Actually they seem to be sure that they get dissolved.

So you mean unlike the previous administration that had no moral or LEGAL authority at all? You can bet they'd be trying real hard to counter the Generals' new Constiution now wouldn't they? How old are you guys, just out of curiosity - as this is getting rather amusing..

[thaigene2]

Please answer me this one question.

If many people in Thailand agree that Thaksin is corrupt, but they think that so are the Democrats - as they represent the rich elties that have feathered their nests for generations on dirty little deals (or so 'they' may believe) and have no interest in the plight of anyone else...

Thus the majority want Thaksin becuase they think (rightly or wrongly) that he has actually done things for them - so they'll vote TRT/PPP/Anyone-else-who-seems -like Thaksin -- then would you finally agree that they have a right to govern without interference by the military?

A pretty straight forward question - does the majority, including "them" farmers and poor people "up there' in Issaan even if you are 'outraged' by their choice, have a right to have their choice govern without mobs in the streets threatening another coup?

If not why not?

Edited May 28, 2008 by thaigene2

[nomoretalksin]

Please answer me this one question.

If many people in Thailand agree that Thaksin is corrupt, but they think that so are the Democrats - as they represent the rich elties that have feathered their nests for generations on dirty little deals (or so 'they' may believe) and have no interest in the plight of anyone else...

Thus the majority want Thaksin becuase they think (rightly or wrongly) that he has actually done things for them - so they'll vote TRT/PPP/Anyone-else-who-seems -like Thaksin -- then would you finally agree that they have a right to govern without interference by the military?

A pretty straight forward question - does the majority, including "them" farmers and poor people "up there' in Issaan even if you are 'outraged' by their choice, have a right to have their choice govern without mobs in the streets threatening another coup?

If not why not?

I'm not sure to whom this question (which is based and put together with presumptions, which might be only your idea) is addressed, but didn't other posters already explained to you partially several times:

- that the military is not one single political unit (bevor or after the coup, doesn't matter)

- and that last elections were not regular and fair proceeded (difficult to crack Thaksin network up-country for various, mostly not so politically correct reasons + election fraud cases during elections)

- also your democrats (point of view) = equal another group, is also not one single political unit as you might think

and therefore your questions can't be replied to with a simple yes or no?

It seams to me, that you (maybe me to, I must confess) throw to much weight on names (particular group names) and titles, and especially forget to see the time-line of the events (not the last in the media spotlight needs to be "a" or "the" coup initiater etc.) and the various networks within the networks, for each re-action and cause, might be more complex then we might even or ever see.

Therfore many things I must assume also play in the background, which are difficult for most people (us) to understand and get to hear. So try to be a bit more open (I try to), than the rather finger-pointing with "western standard political point-of-view" about various points, such as democracy, coups and in your case your ultimate problem, with some rich elite people here in this country (you already attacked me after reading 2 posts, that I must be a rich Thai kid, with no care and/or connection for upcountry), which you also believe are equal (as I understand you think) the Democrats (party of Thailand).

So what was your exact question, without keeping in mind and understanding that the military (as I understand) is not one single complex group (who all are scared of a view hundred or thousands PAD demonstrators, and therefore take over and start a coup) all the time

If I missunderstand you and/or you think I'm wrong somewhere, please let us know.

Edited May 28, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[sriracha john]

Police Prepared for PAD's Mass Gathering on Friday

Police say the riot control force is well prepared for the large number of people expected to join the People's Alliance for Democracy rally on Friday, and at the same time denies that the police plan to arrest the PAD leaders.

National Police Deputy Spokesperson, Police Major General Surapol Thuanthong, says the police team responsible for riot control has been in operation since the People's Alliance for Democracy declared that the group will continue to stage its rally against the amendment of the 2007 charter.

The National Police deputy spokesperson reveals that the police have respect for the opinion of the group, but hope the rally-goers consider troubles that could possibly occur.

* Once again, it's the anti-"rally-goers" who invariably begin the "troubles" *

The police will provide tight security for the group's gathering, provided that they respect the law. *please ensure the opposing side does the same *

The National Police deputy spokesperson shrugged off a rumor that the police are preparing to arrest the PAD leaders to stop the ongoing rally.

As for the PAD's gathering which is expected to swell in number on Friday, the National Police say the team supervising security is prepared.

As revealed by the National Police deputy spokesperson, the police will not forbid the right of the rally group to express their opinion, but the rally must follow the law on the public security.

- Thailand Outlook

Edited May 28, 2008 by sriracha john

[h90]

Please answer me this one question.

If many people in Thailand agree that Thaksin is corrupt, but they think that so are the Democrats - as they represent the rich elties that have feathered their nests for generations on dirty little deals (or so 'they' may believe) and have no interest in the plight of anyone else...

Thus the majority want Thaksin becuase they think (rightly or wrongly) that he has actually done things for them - so they'll vote TRT/PPP/Anyone-else-who-seems -like Thaksin -- then would you finally agree that they have a right to govern without interference by the military?

A pretty straight forward question - does the majority, including "them" farmers and poor people "up there' in Issaan even if you are 'outraged' by their choice, have a right to have their choice govern without mobs in the streets threatening another coup?

If not why not?

If there are one time elections without massive fraud....

[sriracha john]

Vince McMahon's World Wrestling Federation proudly presents.....

Crusher Chalerm vesus Slammer Sondhi

Cage Match! No Holds Barred! No Disqualification! Grudge Match!!

Interior Minister Accepts Challenge to Debate with PAD Leader

The Interior Minister denies mobilizing people to clash with the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy. He pledges to engage in a public debate with the group's core leader, Sondhi Limthongkul.

Interior Minister Chalerm Yooobumrung says he will accept the challenge by core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, Sondhi Limthongkul, to a public debate at any forum.

Chalerm says the debate will benefit the public and it should be broadcast via the state-run Modern 9 and National Broadcasting of Thailand channels.

The Interior Minister also denies speculation that he has mobilized people to counter the PAD rally and says the protests at the city halls of some provinces against the PAD's moves are being held by the group's opponents.

As for the court's dismissal of his complaint asking for the nullification of Sondhi's suspension of his defamation sentence, Chalerm says he is not disgraced by the ruling.

*Chalerm loses the first round.

Can someone ask for the the nullification of Samak's suspension of his SAME defamation sentence???*

However, the minister reveals he has assigned his lawyer to monitor the PAD's rally via ASTV and record all speeches made on its stage. The recording and footage of the PAD's speeches will be used as evidence if there is any defamation against others on its stage.

- Thailand Outlook

======================================================

Sondhi needs to be careful about Duang's bringing "foreign objects" into the ring... like... handguns

Edited May 28, 2008 by sriracha john

[nomoretalksin]

I must say the police, military and Samak etc. are holding currently regarding the demonstrations (up to today, minus the group that was not stopped throwing things at the PAD during a longer period, which injured about 18people) a quite fair stand. If all refrain from violance and people can demonstrate as in a proper democratical country (and by the law), all should be ok. Just wonder what the people in government will learn about this issues raised by the PAD?

Why not hold public (TV? useful?) forums:

Abhisit or Korn or anyone - with Penkair

Chalerm - with Sondhi

etc. etc.

That what be beneficial for all people to hear those people talk in a serious political debate, as I see often in Europe (instead using the media to talk or should I say blame each other, without talking directly to each other).

[Tony Clifton]

Interior Minister Chalerm Yooobumrung says he will accept the challenge by core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, Sondhi Limthongkul, to a public debate at any forum.

Chalerm says the debate will benefit the public and it should be broadcast via the state-run Modern 9 and National Broadcasting of Thailand channels.

Yet to be determined if it would be broadcast LIVE of if ample editing would be required for Chalerm to survive this debate as NO ONE from TRT/PPP has ever accepted a live debate with either Sonthi L. or the democrat leader, Abhisit. Thaksin himself, Coward the Great, would only do prepared tv interviews or fled up North where he ran his government by teleconference away from even journalists when he wasn't waving stupid little signs self-censoring questions.

With all the accumulated bullsh!t they've mass produced since Thaksin was first elected, how can they ever accept. He won't do it live.

[edwardandtubs]

Why should they accept a live TV debate? Why would a party of government give free publicity to the political nonentities of PAD? In some countries (like the USA) live TV debates are the norm but in others (like the UK) they're seen as tacky. The PAD need to start talking to ordinary voters more than some gimmicky live TV debate.

[nomoretalksin]

he he your right, it will never happen, I would be very surpised if so.

Thaksin was the champion, of inviting his men to the TV studio, and they had to read down his (or his men prepared) script of questions.

I remember after the first big allegations of the tax-free Shin Corp sale, he only went once live to the studio, without preparation or prechecked questions (after months of pressure for information from him about the matter and street demonstrations), he then was sitting there being so shocked about the direct (unusual for him) questions, that he blinked constantly, so nervous with his eyes the same way as your (Tony C.) avatar, and coughing his way through the interview.

After that evening the press were shocked the next day, to get so strange replies on various questions (which no-one was able to ask before). I think it was called Modern-Nine Talk-show and the TV challengar later was removed or kicked out from that government channel, as I can remember. Anyone can remember or has a link from that interview? You would recongise Tony's Avatar there very clearly! he he

Edited May 28, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[edwardandtubs]

Jakrapob - this guy really has to resign by himself or get kicked.

He even did not express any excuse, so time is over for him.

Bored with these idiots who think it is cool to talk against the Thai Monarchy. Where would be Thailand without the King?!

Have you read the transcripts of what he said or were you at the speech he gave on Democracy and Patronage in Thailand? If not how can you judge whether he's "talking against the monarchy"? What sort of democrats are the PAD that they run off and make police complaints about a political speech?

[h90]

Vince McMahon's World Wrestling Federation proudly presents.....

Crusher Chalerm vesus Slammer Sondhi

Cage Match! No Holds Barred! No Disqualification! Grudge Match!!

Interior Minister Accepts Challenge to Debate with PAD Leader

The Interior Minister denies mobilizing people to clash with the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy. He pledges to engage in a public debate with the group's core leader, Sondhi Limthongkul.

Interior Minister Chalerm Yooobumrung says he will accept the challenge by core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, Sondhi Limthongkul, to a public debate at any forum.

Chalerm says the debate will benefit the public and it should be broadcast via the state-run Modern 9 and National Broadcasting of Thailand channels.

The Interior Minister also denies speculation that he has mobilized people to counter the PAD rally and says the protests at the city halls of some provinces against the PAD's moves are being held by the group's opponents.

As for the court's dismissal of his complaint asking for the nullification of Sondhi's suspension of his defamation sentence, Chalerm says he is not disgraced by the ruling.

*Chalerm loses the first round.

Can someone ask for the the nullification of Samak's suspension of his SAME defamation sentence???*

However, the minister reveals he has assigned his lawyer to monitor the PAD's rally via ASTV and record all speeches made on its stage. The recording and footage of the PAD's speeches will be used as evidence if there is any defamation against others on its stage.

- Thailand Outlook

======================================================

Sondhi needs to be careful about Duang's bringing "foreign objects" into the ring... like... handguns

"foreign objects" Lawers? As soon as Sondhi tells something he is in the jail, that might Chalerms idea.

But Sondhi in the jail might be even more dangerous for the government.

[cmsally]

Please answer me this one question.

If many people in Thailand agree that Thaksin is corrupt, but they think that so are the Democrats - as they represent the rich elties that have feathered their nests for generations on dirty little deals (or so 'they' may believe) and have no interest in the plight of anyone else...

Thus the majority want Thaksin becuase they think (rightly or wrongly) that he has actually done things for them - so they'll vote TRT/PPP/Anyone-else-who-seems -like Thaksin -- then would you finally agree that they have a right to govern without interference by the military?

A pretty straight forward question - does the majority, including "them" farmers and poor people "up there' in Issaan even if you are 'outraged' by their choice, have a right to have their choice govern without mobs in the streets threatening another coup?

If not why not?

This seems like a fairly straightforward question and no one seems to have answered it.

At the end of the day you can look at all the vote buying, supposed vote buying, spheres of influence etc. - and everyone is guilty of this. But ultimately people can vote for who they want, they can take the money, say thank you and vote for another person. It takes more than a banknote waved under the nose to change someone's mind, even if they are a farmer, labourer, whatever.

If you ask the farmers "up there" what affects their decision when they vote (and yes I have asked many), they will tell you they look around and see who has done the most for them. Who has fixed up the temple, who has built the road, who has given them health care, who has provided schools and education grants. Some might be swayed by who the other members of their family vote for. Not much different to other places throughout the world.

These issues will fix their decisions.

You will get people who can be bought but I think these are less than assumed. There is a lot of money flying around from all camps but ultimately people will vote for who they want.

Yes there is a big Bangkok/other parts divide. And it was noticeable that the Democrats benefited most during the military coup, thus entrenching them as being part of the establishment in the eyes of the provincial people even further. I think that it is the reason that the PPP won the last election. Without that divide and the experience of the military coup which dragged on and on with an inneffectual government, I doubt the PPP ( with its poor lineup and not much of a choice for PM) would have won.

[thaigene2]

Yes I agree with your last point cmsally - the PPP are dreadful - with a guy like Samak at the helm and Chalerm at his side. Hard to imagine something worse, though there are so many thugs out there I'm sure there could be an even worse lineup.

The Democracts - and their proxies that ultra-nationalist military-appointed Government that was in place sure weren't friendly to foreigners (lest we forget the Foreign Business Act debale). And though it's true that Thaksin had his fair share of accusations of ripping off foreign business partners, I would shudder to think about what an-old-family establishment Government would have up it sleeve for the non-Thais here if they managed a majority Government - worse if it's a military one. Selfish of me I know..

I can only hope that this Samak Government falls in on itself (there are signs of that), the minority govt falls and elections are called before those itching for a coup force one through. A re-ordering of PPP with friendlier faces and more moderate positions is what's needed. Not too late I don't think..but nearly!

[Plus]

Please answer me this one question.

They don't have the right to elect a person uneligible for elections. Thaksin should clear his court cases first.

[nomoretalksin]

Remind's me of the recent referendum in Burma (not coincendane he was there already twice recently?) and he pops up with this very similar idea, to let his group remain in power (and white-wash all previous allegations)?:

THAI TALK

Referendum: A Bt2 bn stupid 'yes-or-no' question

By Suthichai Yoon

The Nation

Published on May 29, 2008

On the surface, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej only wants to spend Bt2 billion to hold a "referendum" to find out whether the Thai people would say "yes" or "no" to the proposed constitutional amendments.

In fact, all he wants is a big "yes". But the bigger question is what's the "big yes" all about? You know and I know what he is really after. He won't publicly admit it. If he thinks we are all fools who would fall into the trap, then he isn't such a bright guy after all.

continue here: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/29...on_30074244.php

[hammered]

Yes I agree with your last point cmsally - the PPP are dreadful - with a guy like Samak at the helm and Chalerm at his side. Hard to imagine something worse, though there are so many thugs out there I'm sure there could be an even worse lineup.

The Democracts - and their proxies that ultra-nationalist military-appointed Government that was in place sure weren't friendly to foreigners (lest we forget the Foreign Business Act debale). And though it's true that Thaksin had his fair share of accusations of ripping off foreign business partners, I would shudder to think about what an-old-family establishment Government would have up it sleeve for the non-Thais here if they managed a majority Government - worse if it's a military one. Selfish of me I know..

I can only hope that this Samak Government falls in on itself (there are signs of that), the minority govt falls and elections are called before those itching for a coup force one through. A re-ordering of PPP with friendlier faces and more moderate positions is what's needed. Not too late I don't think..but nearly!

Interesting point. The PPP certainly does seem internally divided and factional. Without a constitution change it would be interesting to see how the exisiting and maybe new parties lined up after a house dissolution. The current consty makes it a lot easier for MPs to leave existing parties than the old one. What would be most interesting would be to se if the more moderate PPPers would stick with the harder Chidchob elements or whether the PPP may end up becoming two parties. That concept may also work not only for the less strident anti-Thaksinistas but also for Mr. T and and at least some of the 111 who may well be able to have influence over a more moderate government that would also enable a possible deal getting us away from constant conflict. Anyway it all remains pure speculation right now, but it certainly better to speculate about such things than await a coup or violence.

As you say the time may soon be past to avoid something nasty. Increasingly Thai people, or at least increasing amounts of those I talk to, think violence is becoming inevitable.

[jumnien]

Please answer me this one question.

They don't have the right to elect a person uneligible for elections. Thaksin should clear his court cases first.

The court cases all stem from the treasonous coup of Sept. 19th, 2006. It would be fine if an agency independent from the Thai military brought of cases against Thaksin for selling his telephone company to Singapore or against DTAC (Norway) or Orange (French-owned) or anyone else for anything. Just keep the military protecting the borders, not sitting in Bangkok thinking too much!