People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[younghusband]

YH. Hi. Long time.

Sure I'll clarify it is my opinion based on visual evidence too from routes North to Bangkok, not the Isaan. However, we shouldnt miss the point that any attempt to interfere with the right of people to demonstrate peacefully is wrong whether it is by one or one hundred raodblocks or by any government or government agency. I am sure we can agree on that.

Happy to agree with this.

[nomoretalksin]

I hope that Chalerm only told that to scare people so they don't go there. there is a lot security i don't think someone can bomb easily.

Well with Chalerm you never know, do you. I mean, who would want to bomb the PAD rally?

And why?

Because of all the payed goons, hired drunks, and heavily sponsored caravans of the 'poor', we are actually made to believe there's a pro-Thaksin or anti-PAD side. How clever of the government.

Can you explain your logic/meaning? paid by whom, supporting who? These are pro-Thaksin or anti-Pad side hooligians! Who else creates violence in this country? (besides unrest in the South). I don't think Thaksin would hire such people. He hires big masses from the country-side who come to cheer him. Thes are hardcore crazy Thaksin fans, which don't need money to make a mess.

Edited May 29, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[bulmercke]

YH. Hi. Long time.

Sure I'll clarify it is my opinion based on visual evidence too from routes North to Bangkok, not the Isaan. However, we shouldnt miss the point that any attempt to interfere with the right of people to demonstrate peacefully is wrong whether it is by one or one hundred raodblocks or by any government or government agency. I am sure we can agree on that.

Is history repeating itself? The last coup happened just before forest rangers (with rifles) were to attack a PAD rally. Now there are bomb threats?

This is true. The military had intelligence about this - hence the coup -

Incidentally - the PAD has complained that many of it's supporters from outside of BKK were prevented by the police from joining the on-going protest last weekend.

[dkstoney]

Thais would be happier under a dictatorship where they are told exactly what to do and to love it.

[thaigene2]

TOC

Pro Democracy Group Files Charges against Sondhi Limthongkul

UPDATE : 29 May 2008

A representative of a pro-democracy group has filed charges against Sondhi Limthongkul, one of the core People’s Alliance for Democracy leaders. He alleges that Sondhi’s speeches which were made at the PAD rally are misrepresenting and could lead to a military coup.

Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, a representative of a pro-democracy group, has filed charges against People’s Alliance for Democracy key leader Sondhi Limthongkul. The group has accused Sondhi of using force to incite chaos in the society and to encourage the public to break the laws. If he’s found guilty, Sondhi could face a jail term of up to seven years.

Together with his allegations, Somyos has submitted to the police a transcript of the speech Sondhi made last Sunday as evidence. He claims Sondhi’s speech is misleading and is aimed at provoking a military coup similar to what happened after the PAD’s first round of street protest which many believe played a key role in bringing about the September 2006 coup.

Somyos was a member of the Labor Alliance for Democracy which had protested against the PAD movement.

One of the people who accompanied Somyos to the police station was wearing a t-shirt with the much debated phrase printed on it. The shirt displays a screened message saying "Not standing up is not a crime; having a different point of view is no crime." Anti-coup activist Chotisak Onsueng was also seen wearing the same t-shirt. He and a female companion were verbally attacked after they refused to stand up for the Royal anthem at a Bangkok cinema late last year.

Gee h90 - what do you want to do to them? Throw them in prison? While we're at it, can we ask you to join them? I'm sure if we found the right poo-yai it could be arranged. Isn't that what Thailand has become - or is becoming - as the unusually rich established classes become more and more nervous about losing the advantages that they never should have had to begin with - like concessions for this and that (and hey, I'd include your arch-enemy Thaksin in there but probably many of your Thai family friends too)?

[thaigene2]

Thais would be happier under a dictatorship where they are told exactly what to do and to love it.

..Don't forget "and who to love.." works a charm

[bulmercke]

Thais would be happier under a dictatorship where they are told exactly what to do and to love it.

Re: UK 2008 - transpose Thais for Brits -

[thaigene2]

Thais would be happier under a dictatorship where they are told exactly what to do and to love it.

Re: UK 2008 - transpose Thais for Brits -

Hey, hey! Agree with you! (and don't forget 'who to love' or in the case of UK - who to re-direct your anger against - as in away from the elites and toward some poor 'paki'.. like he's the source of your family's grinding down). Now THAT is a really nasty country, and getting nastier by the day...sadly I must say..

UK is a bit like America, the toffs control all the major parties..but with a flair - from Tony Blair to Gordon Broon and Boris idiot-what's-his name..to the latest goofy tory-gay-boy. All public school twits who could care less about the poor or working classes, really.

The place is hoplessly controled by the establishment - just different names and different rhetoric to placate people and make them 'feel' better when they're sitting at home under dull grey skies with a cuppa and a tea biscuit dreaming about becoming the next footy star..

Edited May 29, 2008 by thaigene2

[bulmercke]

I hope that Chalerm only told that to scare people so they don't go there. there is a lot security i don't think someone can bomb easily.

Well with Chalerm you never know, do you. I mean, who would want to bomb the PAD rally?

And why?

Because of all the payed goons, hired drunks, and heavily sponsored caravans of the 'poor', we are actually made to believe there's a pro-Thaksin or anti-PAD side. How clever of the government.

The PAD has never been responsible for any violence.

The only violence - and potential violence - has only ever been a consequence of these so-called pro-Thaksin clowns confronting the PAD.

Chalerm is attempting to scare potential protesters away from tomorow's PAD rally with his lies about there being a bomb explosion or attack on PAD supporters.

But then again - Samak - Jakrapop Penkair - Thaksin and Chalerm are real scum - so who knows!

Anything's possible now.

[thaigene2]

I'll bet the rain tonight prevented anything from happening. Let's hope it keeps raining! I think we'd all agree with that..Hope we can get through Friday with no serious trouble.

[bulmercke]

Thais would be happier under a dictatorship where they are told exactly what to do and to love it.

Re: UK 2008 - transpose Thais for Brits -

Hey, hey! Agree with you! (and don't forget 'who to love' or in the case of UK - who to re-direct your anger against - as in away from the elites and toward some poor 'paki'.. like he's the source of your family's grinding down). Now THAT is a really nasty country, and getting nastier by the day...sadly I must say..

UK is a bit like America, the toffs control all the major parties..but with a flair - from Tony Blair to Gordon Broon and Boris idiot-what's-his name..to the latest goofy tory-gay-boy. All public school twits who could care less about the poor or working classes, really.

The place is hoplessly controled by the establishment - just different names and different rhetoric to placate people and make them 'feel' better when they're sitting at home under dull grey skies with a cuppa and a tea biscuit dreaming about becoming the next footy star..

thaigene2 - in badly damaged Britain - in the last few years - the topic of conversation amongst your average Brit has been about how those 'nasty' immigrants from Eastern European states have been taking away jobs and taking advantage of the so-called welfare state.

They are the most spied upon nation in the world - have virtually no rights now - and yet your average 'dumbed down' stupid Brit will tell you that this is still the 'best country in the world' - even though a massive fifty per cent of them would move out tomorrow if given half the chance.

Brits are lied and cheated to by their politicians and taxed into the ground. And there are no longer two distinct political parties - only one party with two different factions - and you couldn't put a note between their differences in policy.

They are so dumbed down by sport - celebrity - sex and trivia - that they don't know their <deleted> from their noses.

Sheeple - in the main - and the sad thing is that most of them don't know what's REALLY goin' on.

Edited May 29, 2008 by bulmercke

[thaigene2]

Thais would be happier under a dictatorship where they are told exactly what to do and to love it.

Re: UK 2008 - transpose Thais for Brits -

Hey, hey! Agree with you! (and don't forget 'who to love' or in the case of UK - who to re-direct your anger against - as in away from the elites and toward some poor 'paki'.. like he's the source of your family's grinding down). Now THAT is a really nasty country, and getting nastier by the day...sadly I must say..

UK is a bit like America, the toffs control all the major parties..but with a flair - from Tony Blair to Gordon Broon and Boris idiot-what's-his name..to the latest goofy tory-gay-boy. All public school twits who could care less about the poor or working classes, really.

The place is hoplessly controled by the establishment - just different names and different rhetoric to placate people and make them 'feel' better when they're sitting at home under dull grey skies with a cuppa and a tea biscuit dreaming about becoming the next footy star..

thaigene2 - in badly damaged Britain - in the last few years - the topic of conversation amongst your average Brit has been about how those 'nasty' immigrants from Eastern European states have been taking away jobs and taking advantage of the so-called welfare state to the detriment of the state as a whole.

<deleted>. Brits are lied and cheated to by their politicians and taxed into the ground.

They are so dumbed down by sport - celebrity - sex and trivia that they don't know their <deleted> from their noses.

Sheeple - in the main - and the sad thing is that most of them don't know what's REALLY goin' on.

Yup

[bulmercke]

TOC

Pro Democracy Group Files Charges against Sondhi Limthongkul

UPDATE : 29 May 2008

A representative of a pro-democracy group has filed charges against Sondhi Limthongkul, one of the core People’s Alliance for Democracy leaders. He alleges that Sondhi’s speeches which were made at the PAD rally are misrepresenting and could lead to a military coup.

Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, a representative of a pro-democracy group, has filed charges against People’s Alliance for Democracy key leader Sondhi Limthongkul. The group has accused Sondhi of using force to incite chaos in the society and to encourage the public to break the laws. If he’s found guilty, Sondhi could face a jail term of up to seven years.

Together with his allegations, Somyos has submitted to the police a transcript of the speech Sondhi made last Sunday as evidence. He claims Sondhi’s speech is misleading and is aimed at provoking a military coup similar to what happened after the PAD’s first round of street protest which many believe played a key role in bringing about the September 2006 coup.

Somyos was a member of the Labor Alliance for Democracy which had protested against the PAD movement.

One of the people who accompanied Somyos to the police station was wearing a t-shirt with the much debated phrase printed on it. The shirt displays a screened message saying "Not standing up is not a crime; having a different point of view is no crime." Anti-coup activist Chotisak Onsueng was also seen wearing the same t-shirt. He and a female companion were verbally attacked after they refused to stand up for the Royal anthem at a Bangkok cinema late last year.

Gee h90 - what do you want to do to them? Throw them in prison? While we're at it, can we ask you to join them? I'm sure if we found the right poo-yai it could be arranged. Isn't that what Thailand has become - or is becoming - as the unusually rich established classes become more and more nervous about losing the advantages that they never should have had to begin with - like concessions for this and that (and hey, I'd include your arch-enemy Thaksin in there but probably many of your Thai family friends too)?

They see Thaksin and his ilk as an up-start - the new capitalist - entrepreneurial elite threatening the old - established monarchic ruling elite!

PAD or not - there's a slow - but sure revolution taking place.

[aaaaaa]

PAD or not - there's a slow - but sure revolution taking place.

it seems it is apparent

here is an interesting "Opinion" today on Nation with the similar course of thought,

that ongoing process is unstoppable:

Confronting Thailand's own looming 'Battle at Kruger'

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/29/opi...on_30074245.php

By Pornpimol Kanchanalak

Published on May 29, 2008

the power of the mass that can change the dynamics of a power equation. The one force unleashed by the 1997 Charter and the five years of the government elected under that Constitution is the awareness of the majority of its rights...

Many of us may dismiss the demonstration by these villagers at political rallies as "paid" mercenaries. Some actually were, but many were not. These were people who willingly rallied in support of the deposed government. They did it because they were genuinely grateful to the one government that seemed to care.

These were the people who went to the polls and elected the government we have in place today.

Bangkokians can throw out a government, but they cannot elect one.

The chasm between those with money and those without, those in the know, and those who are not, seems to have widened and deepened. Obviously, these divides have been unashamedly exploited in the furtherance of an agenda other than the wellbeing of the browbeaten. Due process of the law is one of the first casualties, paving a way to the whimsical exploitation of amassed power. The other casualty is truth, and we are inundated with incendiary rumours, hyperbole and propaganda.

...

We have the mass that is becoming more ready to throw its weight about.

eventually Old surrenders to New inevitably. it make take a lot of time and pain, but it is life - old become replaced.

[h90]

PAD or not - there's a slow - but sure revolution taking place.

it seems it is apparent

here is an interesting "Opinion" today on Nation with the similar course of thought,

that ongoing process is unstoppable:

Confronting Thailand's own looming 'Battle at Kruger'

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/29/opi...on_30074245.php

By Pornpimol Kanchanalak

Published on May 29, 2008

the power of the mass that can change the dynamics of a power equation. The one force unleashed by the 1997 Charter and the five years of the government elected under that Constitution is the awareness of the majority of its rights...

Many of us may dismiss the demonstration by these villagers at political rallies as "paid" mercenaries. Some actually were, but many were not. These were people who willingly rallied in support of the deposed government. They did it because they were genuinely grateful to the one government that seemed to care.

These were the people who went to the polls and elected the government we have in place today.

Bangkokians can throw out a government, but they cannot elect one.

The chasm between those with money and those without, those in the know, and those who are not, seems to have widened and deepened. Obviously, these divides have been unashamedly exploited in the furtherance of an agenda other than the wellbeing of the browbeaten. Due process of the law is one of the first casualties, paving a way to the whimsical exploitation of amassed power. The other casualty is truth, and we are inundated with incendiary rumours, hyperbole and propaganda.

...

We have the mass that is becoming more ready to throw its weight about.

eventually Old surrenders to New inevitably. it make take a lot of time and pain, but it is life - old become replaced.

that article does not show much knowledge. PPP was not elected. If they would not have bought their way, they would be a lot weaker and there might be a complete different government. That changes the story

[bulmercke]

PAD or not - there's a slow - but sure revolution taking place.

it seems it is apparent

here is an interesting "Opinion" today on Nation with the similar course of thought,

that ongoing process is unstoppable:

Confronting Thailand's own looming 'Battle at Kruger'

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/29/opi...on_30074245.php

By Pornpimol Kanchanalak

Published on May 29, 2008

the power of the mass that can change the dynamics of a power equation. The one force unleashed by the 1997 Charter and the five years of the government elected under that Constitution is the awareness of the majority of its rights...

Many of us may dismiss the demonstration by these villagers at political rallies as "paid" mercenaries. Some actually were, but many were not. These were people who willingly rallied in support of the deposed government. They did it because they were genuinely grateful to the one government that seemed to care.

These were the people who went to the polls and elected the government we have in place today.

Bangkokians can throw out a government, but they cannot elect one.

The chasm between those with money and those without, those in the know, and those who are not, seems to have widened and deepened. Obviously, these divides have been unashamedly exploited in the furtherance of an agenda other than the wellbeing of the browbeaten. Due process of the law is one of the first casualties, paving a way to the whimsical exploitation of amassed power. The other casualty is truth, and we are inundated with incendiary rumours, hyperbole and propaganda.

...

We have the mass that is becoming more ready to throw its weight about.

eventually Old surrenders to New inevitably. it make take a lot of time and pain, but it is life - old become replaced.

The PAD are - in some respects - on the side of the establishment.

But then again Samak and Thaksin are despicable human beings.

The PAD is a non-violent - sincere - altruistical - movement -

Let the PAD prevail.........

[aaaaaa]

And yes we could all go on about the US Uk

pardon my bad (a bit off topic)

but USA is not precisely a Democracy - it is a "constitutional federal republic"

"the United States relies on representative democracy, but [its] system of government is much more complex than that. [it is] not a simple representative democracy, but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

Some of the framers of the US Constitution may have conceived of the president as being an elected constitutional monarch, as the term was understood in their time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy

and UK is neither - it is "constitutional monarchy" as officially is Thailand !

in a parliamentary system the prime minister is elected by the legislature

there is no truly independent body to oppose and veto legislation passed by the parliament,

and therefore no substantial check on legislative power

people with significant popular support in the community are prevented from becoming prime minister if they cannot get elected to parliament since there is no option to "run for prime minister" like one can run for president under a presidential system. Additionally, prime ministers may lose their positions solely because they lose their seats in parliament, even though they may still be popular nationally

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_democracy

so, neither UK nor US is what is actual Democracy, no matter how much they claim to be - for reasons quite understandable (to avoid "majority rule") or what is called "True" or "Pure Democracy"

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy)

therefore any attempts to measure other countries by their (US and UK) "Democracy" are pointless !

because nowadays there are defined too many kinds of Democracy !

if however we judge by self-claims, then Laos is also a Democracy, and was "Democratic Kampuchea" or East Germany ...

oh, and Cuba is a Republic too !

[aaaaaa]

PPP was not elected...That changes the story

wow !

is that right? seems like a huge news to me !

and WHO says that, pray ? any evidences?

even Chamlong & Sondhi with their PAD or Abshisit with his whole opposition never came up with such tremendous discovery !

perhaps you happen to have some other, more "secret" sources ?

apparently even junta (CNS), which enforced MARTIAL LAW and had thousands of spec-ops all over country to try best to ensure "NO vote buying" (or rather that "No voting" for PPP ) recognized their electoral victory and gave up their power to PPP

and then also country's highest authority has endorsed it - or perhaps someone has also bought both of them ?

so, to me it looks like that indeed - it changes the story, but only that it is you who changes this story !

[Plus]

The fact that Bangkokians cannot elect the government doesn't mean that they shouldn't try.

From their point of view the country needs a good government, from democracy point of view the country needs a government elected by majority, however bad it is - like PPP. After December elections Bangkokians accepted their choice, btw.

Upcountry folks are expected to eventually learn "good" governments from "bad" but in both PPP and TRT cases we see that "bad" governments will try every dirty trick to keep their good image with electorate. Right now they started a fight that diverted people's attention to PAD protests, for example. Now they have someone to blame for their own incompetence come the next elections.

Also TRT redefined what "good" and "bad" is, so that Bangkokians and farmers could never have the same values and standards to share.

>>>>>

Bangkokians feel that long term damage from letting Thaksin run the country outweighs temporary, borrowed loan benefits to the farmers. Farmers refuse to discuss anything beyond their personal interests - "corruption, who cares, everyone is corrupt".

The FACT is that their "benefits" are only crumbs off the Bangkok table, Bangkok is their golden egg goose but they don't want to hear it when Bangkokians tell them that the goose is dying. Unfortunately the goose is not a cat, it doesn't have nine lives. Once is dead, it will be roadkill forever. Modern, global economy doesn't give second chances.

[Siripon]

There's an excellent editorial by Thanong in today's Nation regarding the PAD.

As an aside, I see the Democrats have been criticised for their targeting of 29 websites regarding allegations of criticism of the monarchy and I noticed Thepthai Senpong's name was singled out. He really is a fawning individual, if you watch interviews of Aphisit, Thepthai is always sidling up behind him desperate to get in the camera's frame. Aphisit should rein him in, he committed a blunder a few weeks ago showing a picture from Thai Rath of Samak 'associating' with the dictators of 76 whilst in fact Samak was working in an official capacity at the Israeli embassy.

[younghusband]

The fact that Bangkokians cannot elect the government doesn't mean that they shouldn't try.

From their point of view the country needs a good government, from democracy point of view the country needs a government elected by majority, however bad it is - like PPP. After December elections Bangkokians accepted their choice, btw.

Upcountry folks are expected to eventually learn "good" governments from "bad" but in both PPP and TRT cases we see that "bad" governments will try every dirty trick to keep their good image with electorate. Right now they started a fight that diverted people's attention to PAD protests, for example. Now they have someone to blame for their own incompetence come the next elections.

Also TRT redefined what "good" and "bad" is, so that Bangkokians and farmers could never have the same values and standards to share.

>>>>>

Bangkokians feel that long term damage from letting Thaksin run the country outweighs temporary, borrowed loan benefits to the farmers. Farmers refuse to discuss anything beyond their personal interests - "corruption, who cares, everyone is corrupt".

The FACT is that their "benefits" are only crumbs off the Bangkok table, Bangkok is their golden egg goose but they don't want to hear it when Bangkokians tell them that the goose is dying. Unfortunately the goose is not a cat, it doesn't have nine lives. Once is dead, it will be roadkill forever. Modern, global economy doesn't give second chances.

I don't doubt the sincerity of this post but for many of us it posits a rather bizarre alternative universe where middle class Bangkokians are virtuous and patriotic whereas the rural majority is selfish and oblivious of wider concerns.I think the reality is, regardless of origin, most voters in a democracy look to their own economic interests first.

The damage being done to the country is however very real and despite the spluttering about Thaksin it's not the former PM alone that is the problem.As the Economist headline article on Thailand says it's the squabbling elites that seem intent on ruining the country.In other words there is a lack of the genuine patriotism which would seek conciliation and harmony.It's a winner take all game regardless of damage done to the country and as the Economist notes, "Thailand risks becoming one of those perenially unstable. tragi-comic countries, such as the Philippines, which the outside world overlooks."

[A_Traveller]

Samak was working in an official capacity at the Israeli embassy.

Would you care to expand on this or give sources?

Samak did go to Singapore, he did meet with the Thanom, the purpose and instigator(s) of this action has been the subject of debate, almost ever since, especially given what subsequently occurred.

Regards

[hammered]

Looking like we might get:

Jakrapob resign

The constitutional ammendment will not be tabled at least fro now

PAD go home

That wouldnt be a bad thing to lessen tensions right now at least until the next inevitable flash point, Mind you as soon as I write this I guess I'll be proved wrong

[nomoretalksin]

PPP was not elected...That changes the story

and WHO says that, pray ? any evidences?

even Chamlong & Sondhi with their PAD or Abshisit with his whole opposition never came up with such tremendous discovery !

perhaps you happen to have some other, more "secret" sources ?

In our village up-country (and confirmed in neighbour villages with friends and relatives as well) the TRT=PPP were the only party (no dems not any others) knocking on the door with 200thb/per begging for a vote. The village chief with his view other corrupt boys, was standing on the street and watching (like dogs) 50 meter behind "this scene" and raising their eye-brows (you watch out you family if you don't vote for the right party). I could even note you the name of that certain PPP member, if I wanted to. But our family still has to life there. (of course we didn't vote for the PPP, but the majority of the village did, as to many of the same boys were checking around during the pools). Welcome to Thaksin-land.

The TRT already established their network in 2001/2002. Watch here a documentary about "vote buying" by TRT...

and their network:

Watch:

(the film was about 2002 and at that time, all parties were more or less giving give-aways during election time, but believe me TRT took over with big money everywhere & last election was mainly only one party cheating, not respecting the new law, which has been implemented by the goverment after the coup. And now with the new constitution planned, they want to erase their own cheatings. Any other news/views with actually proove on this matter?

Do you guys understand, who difficult it is for the democrats (any prove of vote-buying here?) to get the majority up-country, and with this air-time control from the government to main only PPP=TRT voices on local TV, which is the main source of information for the majority voters? Very, very difficult!

One typical case of "advertising by Thaksin up-country", was also about 2-3 years ago were another TV poster here

noted: In our village Thaksin send us small fire-trucks paid by goverment money, and with a big celebration in the village those trucks were received by the head of the village. What was sprayed on the trucks: "Sponsered by THASKIN"! (but actually the tax-payers of Thailand sponsered them). This is and was Thaksin tactic. Misuse tax-money to make advertising for him up-country to vote for him. Same with the show-crowds gathering were flags and flowers were distributed before his arrival (by his men) to make the TV viewers seeing a delightet colourful Thaksin welcome.

on and on..it goes..... How can you not support the democrats, I just wonder? We want to move on but not with the biggest, best established corruption group. No way.

cheers

Edited May 30, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[nomoretalksin]

Thaksin meet Prem and Surayud (on a funeral yesterday). I just wonder what those guys talk to each other??

[Los78]

"The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process. It is not difficult to determine that the vast majority of the nation wants Mr Thaksin to face justice, and wants to see if the Samak Sundaravej administration will run an efficient, accountable government. All members of the PAD need to take a cooling-off period and give democracy and the law a chance."

I have to agree. Thailand suffered a lot from the last coup because of PAD which didn't bring any good except a military government. Those PAD want a military Junta to rule Thailand or something. It seems like that sometimes.

PAD should learn from the past of what its protests brought to Thailand.

Just division and economic decline. These people should stop being so bitter that their parties did poorly in last years election and give the government a chance to work. Its time for members of PAD to go back to their jobs if they have any, and stop causing the same problems for Thailand.

[h90]

PPP was not elected...That changes the story

wow !

is that right? seems like a huge news to me !

and WHO says that, pray ? any evidences?

even Chamlong & Sondhi with their PAD or Abshisit with his whole opposition never came up with such tremendous discovery !

perhaps you happen to have some other, more "secret" sources ?

apparently even junta (CNS), which enforced MARTIAL LAW and had thousands of spec-ops all over country to try best to ensure "NO vote buying" (or rather that "No voting" for PPP ) recognized their electoral victory and gave up their power to PPP

and then also country's highest authority has endorsed it - or perhaps someone has also bought both of them ?

so, to me it looks like that indeed - it changes the story, but only that it is you who changes this story !

You may remembered the beginning of the constitution story? There is a very high risk that at least 3 parties get dissolved due to election fraud. That means the government is NOT elected, it came fraudulent into power. Not acceptable by any standards.

[nomoretalksin]

did the Thaksin campaign ever sponsored any such "anti-vote-buying campaigns"

(this was by the coup goverment)

never

[h90]

200 Baht

in other areas the price was already at 500 Baht, they got badly cheated

PPP was not elected...That changes the story

and WHO says that, pray ? any evidences?

even Chamlong & Sondhi with their PAD or Abshisit with his whole opposition never came up with such tremendous discovery !

perhaps you happen to have some other, more "secret" sources ?

In our village up-country (and confirmed in neighbour villages with friends and relatives as well) the TRT=PPP were the only party (no dems not any others) knocking on the door with 200thb/per begging for a vote. The village chief with his view other corrupt boys, was standing on the street and watching (like dogs) 50 meter behind "this scene" and raising their eye-brows (you watch out you family if you don't vote for the right party). I could even note you the name of that certain PPP member, if I wanted to. But our family still has to life there. (of course we didn't vote for the PPP, but the majority of the village did, as to many of the same boys were checking around during the pools). Welcome to Thaksin-land.

The TRT already established their network in 2001/2002. Watch here a documentary about "vote buying" by TRT...

and their network:

Watch:

(the film was about 2002 and at that time, all parties were more or less giving give-aways during election time, but believe me TRT took over with big money everywhere & last election was mainly only one party cheating, not respecting the new law, which has been implemented by the goverment after the coup. And now with the new constitution planned, they want to erase their own cheatings. Any other news/views with actually proove on this matter?

Do you guys understand, who difficult it is for the democrats (any prove of vote-buying here?) to get the majority up-country, and with this air-time control from the government to main only PPP=TRT voices on local TV, which is the main source of information for the majority voters? Very, very difficult!

One typical case of "advertising by Thaksin up-country", was also about 2-3 years ago were another TV poster here

noted: In our village Thaksin send us small fire-trucks paid by goverment money, and with a big celebration in the village those trucks were received by the head of the village. What was sprayed on the trucks: "Sponsered by THASKIN"! (but actually the tax-payers of Thailand sponsered them). This is and was Thaksin tactic. Misuse tax-money to make advertising for him up-country to vote for him. Same with the show-crowds gathering were flags and flowers were distributed before his arrival (by his men) to make the TV viewers seeing a delightet colourful Thaksin welcome.

on and on..it goes..... How can you not support the democrats, I just wonder? We want to move on but not with the biggest, best established corruption group. No way.

cheers

[thaigene2]

They see Thaksin and his ilk as an up-start - the new capitalist - entrepreneurial elite threatening the old - established monarchic ruling elite!

PAD or not - there's a slow - but sure revolution taking place.

Yes. This has been my main point all along - I'm not a 'defender' of Thaksin like some have tried to make me out to be. They just don't want to deal with the real debate/issue. All these hysterical voices shouting 'lese majeste' every time someone talks about the patronage system (Jakropok, Jonathan Head) or publishes a left-wing view of Thai society (Ji Ungkaporn) are losing their credibility and I think that's beginning to show through to one and all.

I'm not sure if it's a revolution or just a fast evolution - but something's happening that's more than PAD or TRT/PPP. I truly hope it plays out for the best - without bloodshed or imprisonment for people expressing themselves - and let's all segments of Thai society from the unduly rich/connected to the poorest rice farmer live in hapiness - but in a much fairer soceity then we see now.

We'll see soon I guess.

Edited May 30, 2008 by thaigene2