People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[Plus]

... a rather bizarre alternative universe where middle class Bangkokians are virtuous and patriotic whereas the rural majority is selfish and oblivious of wider concerns.

Do you mean to say that rural majority is not selfish and not oblivious to wider concerns? Because right in the next sentence you justify their selfishness.

I think the reality is, regardless of origin, most voters in a democracy look to their own economic interests first.

Can you make up your mind?

Some people understand that their best interests are better served when the whole society functions well. For them it's not "me at all costs".

Middle classes might not be all virtuous or patriotic, but generally they get it, and they never protest against raising poor standards of living. In case you didn't notice, they protested against Thaksin's abuse, not against farmers with new mobile phones.

Thaksin, as any budding dictator would, quickly branded any attack on him as an attack on the poor. You must be really thick not to have noticed it.

Now the poor are fighting his battles, not their own. They don't need constution rewrite, for example.

The damage being done to the country is however very real and despite the spluttering about Thaksin it's not the former PM alone that is the problem.As the Economist headline article on Thailand says it's the squabbling elites that seem intent on ruining the country.In other words there is a lack of the genuine patriotism which would seek conciliation and harmony.It's a winner take all game regardless of damage done to the country and as the Economist notes, "Thailand risks becoming one of those perenially unstable. tragi-comic countries, such as the Philippines, which the outside world overlooks."

I bet very few of Thaksin followers among the "new elite" and big business circles wanted to openly take on Prem the way Jakrapob did.

In fact everyone was getting along very well until mass protests broke out. Suddenly defending Thaksin had become fighting for democracy,against patronage system or whatever, and everyone was forced to take a stand.

Had Thaksin bought Man City in the spring of 2006 and stayed in England instead of returning to active politics against his own promise, the whole episode would have been forgotten by now. Yet there he was, in June 2006, enlisting country's top bureaucrats to fight the "invisible hand". The rest is history.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Plus

[Los78]

PAD or not - there's a slow - but sure revolution taking place.

it seems it is apparent

here is an interesting "Opinion" today on Nation with the similar course of thought,

that ongoing process is unstoppable:

Confronting Thailand's own looming 'Battle at Kruger'

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/29/opi...on_30074245.php

By Pornpimol Kanchanalak

Published on May 29, 2008

the power of the mass that can change the dynamics of a power equation. The one force unleashed by the 1997 Charter and the five years of the government elected under that Constitution is the awareness of the majority of its rights...

Many of us may dismiss the demonstration by these villagers at political rallies as "paid" mercenaries. Some actually were, but many were not. These were people who willingly rallied in support of the deposed government. They did it because they were genuinely grateful to the one government that seemed to care.

These were the people who went to the polls and elected the government we have in place today.

Bangkokians can throw out a government, but they cannot elect one.

The chasm between those with money and those without, those in the know, and those who are not, seems to have widened and deepened. Obviously, these divides have been unashamedly exploited in the furtherance of an agenda other than the wellbeing of the browbeaten. Due process of the law is one of the first casualties, paving a way to the whimsical exploitation of amassed power. The other casualty is truth, and we are inundated with incendiary rumours, hyperbole and propaganda.

...

We have the mass that is becoming more ready to throw its weight about.

eventually Old surrenders to New inevitably. it make take a lot of time and pain, but it is life - old become replaced.

"that article does not show much knowledge. PPP was not elected. If they would not have bought their way, they would be a lot weaker and there might be a complete different government. That changes the story"

[ Really??? Well I guess my wife and her friends missed out on the money from the PPP last election time. dam_n it... Can you please inform us where PPP was giving all this cash to the millions of Thais to vote for them. Come on.... The election was as fair as it could be in this county. Stop being so bitter that things didnt go your way and let the peoples choice govern until the next election. Thats what democracy is about.

[h90]

PAD or not - there's a slow - but sure revolution taking place.

it seems it is apparent

here is an interesting "Opinion" today on Nation with the similar course of thought,

that ongoing process is unstoppable:

Confronting Thailand's own looming 'Battle at Kruger'

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/29/opi...on_30074245.php

By Pornpimol Kanchanalak

Published on May 29, 2008

the power of the mass that can change the dynamics of a power equation. The one force unleashed by the 1997 Charter and the five years of the government elected under that Constitution is the awareness of the majority of its rights...

Many of us may dismiss the demonstration by these villagers at political rallies as "paid" mercenaries. Some actually were, but many were not. These were people who willingly rallied in support of the deposed government. They did it because they were genuinely grateful to the one government that seemed to care.

These were the people who went to the polls and elected the government we have in place today.

Bangkokians can throw out a government, but they cannot elect one.

The chasm between those with money and those without, those in the know, and those who are not, seems to have widened and deepened. Obviously, these divides have been unashamedly exploited in the furtherance of an agenda other than the wellbeing of the browbeaten. Due process of the law is one of the first casualties, paving a way to the whimsical exploitation of amassed power. The other casualty is truth, and we are inundated with incendiary rumours, hyperbole and propaganda.

...

We have the mass that is becoming more ready to throw its weight about.

eventually Old surrenders to New inevitably. it make take a lot of time and pain, but it is life - old become replaced.

"that article does not show much knowledge. PPP was not elected. If they would not have bought their way, they would be a lot weaker and there might be a complete different government. That changes the story"

[ Really??? Well I guess my wife and her friends missed out on the money from the PPP last election time. dam_n it... Can you please inform us where PPP was giving all this cash to the millions of Thais to vote for them. Come on.... The election was as fair as it could be in this county. Stop being so bitter that things didnt go your way and let the peoples choice govern until the next election. Thats what democracy is about.

:D :D

follow the speaker pickup.....

real everyone up country know it, even if you don't speak one word thai and you are 80 years old you see it....

[Plus]

This time they apparently nailed Yongyudh fo bribing kamnans.

God know how many votes it would have been if Yongyudh backed off in time and said "no money folks, you are on your own". It would have been a powerful message.

Many MPs run their campaign on credit which is based on trust that PPP execs and donors would come up with the funds.

That is beside the point that a party that sends its executives to bribe village heads and seniors is not using democratic means to obtain power.

[plachon]

"The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process. It is not difficult to determine that the vast majority of the nation wants Mr Thaksin to face justice, and wants to see if the Samak Sundaravej administration will run an efficient, accountable government. All members of the PAD need to take a cooling-off period and give democracy and the law a chance."

I have to agree. Thailand suffered a lot from the last coup because of PAD which didn't bring any good except a military government. Those PAD want a military Junta to rule Thailand or something. It seems like that sometimes.

PAD should learn from the past of what its protests brought to Thailand.

Just division and economic decline. These people should stop being so bitter that their parties did poorly in last years election and give the government a chance to work. Its time for members of PAD to go back to their jobs if they have any, and stop causing the same problems for Thailand.

Any "division and economic decline" in Thailand these past 5 years can squarely be laid on the shoulders on one man alone. It's my understanding that the reasons that PAD are out there at all, is that they have learned from the past about how protests can advance the causes of democracy and social justice in Thailand. They are brave enough to make some sacrifices for their country and people, unlike Thaksin who is only prepared to cowardly hide behind his wealth and former (disgraced) position. Hasn't even got the guts to face a judge.

[h90]

"The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process. It is not difficult to determine that the vast majority of the nation wants Mr Thaksin to face justice, and wants to see if the Samak Sundaravej administration will run an efficient, accountable government. All members of the PAD need to take a cooling-off period and give democracy and the law a chance."

I have to agree. Thailand suffered a lot from the last coup because of PAD which didn't bring any good except a military government. Those PAD want a military Junta to rule Thailand or something. It seems like that sometimes.

PAD should learn from the past of what its protests brought to Thailand.

Just division and economic decline. These people should stop being so bitter that their parties did poorly in last years election and give the government a chance to work. Its time for members of PAD to go back to their jobs if they have any, and stop causing the same problems for Thailand.

Any "division and economic decline" in Thailand these past 5 years can squarely be laid on the shoulders on one man alone. It's my understanding that the reasons that PAD are out there at all, is that they have learned from the past about how protests can advance the causes of democracy and social justice in Thailand. They are brave enough to make some sacrifices for their country and people, unlike Thaksin who is only prepared to cowardly hide behind his wealth and former (disgraced) position. Hasn't even got the guts to face a judge.

If I would Thaksin I would not have the guts to face a judge.....

[hammered]

Well so far today we have the end of Jakrapob and the death of the constitutional ammendment bill (seemingly). We only need the PAD to decide to go home and all three of my predictions come true!

As someone else noted interesting to see Prem, Thaksin, Sarayud and Anupong all in the same place.

[h90]

Well so far today we have the end of Jakrapob and the death of the constitutional ammendment bill (seemingly). We only need the PAD to decide to go home and all three of my predictions come true!

As someone else noted interesting to see Prem, Thaksin, Sarayud and Anupong all in the same place.

No it seems to be a trick from the government. As soon as they go home the same sh*it happens again.....

PAD can't stop now.

[Insight]

Well so far today we have the end of Jakrapob and the death of the constitutional ammendment bill (seemingly). We only need the PAD to decide to go home and all three of my predictions come true!

As someone else noted interesting to see Prem, Thaksin, Sarayud and Anupong all in the same place.

No it seems to be a trick from the government. As soon as they go home the same sh*it happens again.....

PAD can't stop now.

They'll have to, otherwise risk losing major support.

From what I understand the main purpose of the rally was to prevent the constitution being amended for the sake of protecting a few people. Looks like that's what they've achieved. Hats off to them. Job done, pack it up. Any sustained protesting from this point on serve little purpose but to disrupt.

If the government suddenly decide to resurrect this farcical plan then it'll be time to take to the streets again, but hopefully that won't happen - at least for a while.

[h90]

Well so far today we have the end of Jakrapob and the death of the constitutional ammendment bill (seemingly). We only need the PAD to decide to go home and all three of my predictions come true!

As someone else noted interesting to see Prem, Thaksin, Sarayud and Anupong all in the same place.

No it seems to be a trick from the government. As soon as they go home the same sh*it happens again.....

PAD can't stop now.

They'll have to, otherwise risk losing major support.

From what I understand the main purpose of the rally was to prevent the constitution being amended for the sake of protecting a few people. Looks like that's what they've achieved. Hats off to them. Job done, pack it up. Any sustained protesting from this point on serve little purpose but to disrupt.

If the government suddenly decide to resurrect this farcical plan then it'll be time to take to the streets again, but hopefully that won't happen - at least for a while.

The government did not say with one word that they stop it. Now there is a technical reason to stop for now. As soon PAD went home they restart and may arrest the leader.

Samak only need to tell: for the peace in Thailand I promise no change in the constitution for 6 month. That would be a reason to go home.

Jakrapob quits smiling knowing already the plan B. Some MP and Senators take back their signature for now.....Thats simply not enough.

[younghusband]

Middle classes might not be all virtuous or patriotic, but generally they get it, and they never protest against raising poor standards of living. In case you didn't notice, they protested against Thaksin's abuse, not against farmers with new mobile phones.

The middle classes of Bangkok frankly don't by and large "get it" and must get used to the fact that the majority will sooner or later have the upper hand politically.The Democrats will have to adjust policies and show better leadership , as the Tories did in the UK to accomodate universal suffrage.I don't mind being called "thick" but at least I'm making an effort to see through all the clutter.

Incidentally I see H90 keeps on repeating that the current government has no electoral mandate.That of course is a lie and repeating it over and over again doesn't make it any less mendacious.

Edited May 30, 2008 by younghusband

[Old Man River]

Samak only need to tell: for the peace in Thailand I promise no change in the constitution for 6 month. That would be a reason to go home.

That is a double edge sword. On one hand, less potential for political instability. On the other hand, based on this government's track record, more potential for economic instability. I don't know which is worse.

[Plus]

The middle classes of Bangkok frankly don't by and large "get it"

I can't recall either PAD or middle class representatives arguing against helping the poor, they never protest against any price fixing scheme or subsidies, for example. CTX debalce will get their attention. Poor loan repayments under Village Fund scheme won't. They don't blame the poor for going out and spending tax money, they hardly even blame Thaksin for that.

They "get it", by and large.

If you disagree - give me some examples to consider.

majority will sooner or later have the upper hand politically.The Democrats will have to adjust policies and show better leadership

Being in the majority doesn't make you right. Poor governance is always going to be opposed (hopefully).

I prefer Democrats to stand for what is right rather than for what is popular. We have enough populist parties without any substance as it is.

[h90]

TOC

Interior Minister Reveals 3rd Party to Intervene in PAD Rally

UPDATE : 30 May 2008

The interior minister warns the People's Alliance for Democracy and the rally-goers that a third party is preparing to wreak havoc in order to intervene in the ongoing PAD protest.

Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung states that he has received a report on a possible attack by an ill-will group, wishing to interfere with the People's Alliance for Democracy rally and worsen the current conflict.

Chalerm says the group is the same gang responsible for the New Year's bomb attack in nine areas throughout the metropolitan, and that this time, the gang plans to imitate a violent act similat to that which occurred during the "Black May" in 1992.

Chalerm calls for the PAD to take responsibility if chaos takes place.

The interior minister also claims that the PAD rally is receiving financial support from an ally who is an illegal lottery gang and from gambling den owners. He says some political parties support the team and are joining the rally.

No comment......he seems to know that gang very well....

[h90]

Samak only need to tell: for the peace in Thailand I promise no change in the constitution for 6 month. That would be a reason to go home.

That is a double edge sword. On one hand, less potential for political instability. On the other hand, based on this government's track record, more potential for economic instability. I don't know which is worse.

I don't understand the part with the "economic instability"

[hammered]

TOC

Interior Minister Reveals 3rd Party to Intervene in PAD Rally

UPDATE : 30 May 2008

The interior minister warns the People's Alliance for Democracy and the rally-goers that a third party is preparing to wreak havoc in order to intervene in the ongoing PAD protest.

Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung states that he has received a report on a possible attack by an ill-will group, wishing to interfere with the People's Alliance for Democracy rally and worsen the current conflict.

Chalerm says the group is the same gang responsible for the New Year's bomb attack in nine areas throughout the metropolitan, and that this time, the gang plans to imitate a violent act similat to that which occurred during the "Black May" in 1992.

Chalerm calls for the PAD to take responsibility if chaos takes place.

The interior minister also claims that the PAD rally is receiving financial support from an ally who is an illegal lottery gang and from gambling den owners. He says some political parties support the team and are joining the rally.

No comment......he seems to know that gang very well....

In a democracy it is up to the authorites to provide protection to citizens even if they are demonstrating against the government. If a minister knows of a plan to attack the demonstrators it is up to him to ask the authoroties to thwart it and pass on any information he has about an attack. To try and blame the victims if they are attacked by another group is plain wrong and that in a democracy a minister may try do this just compounds the matter. Lets hope that this talk is just bluster.

[Insight]

Well so far today we have the end of Jakrapob and the death of the constitutional ammendment bill (seemingly). We only need the PAD to decide to go home and all three of my predictions come true!

As someone else noted interesting to see Prem, Thaksin, Sarayud and Anupong all in the same place.

No it seems to be a trick from the government. As soon as they go home the same sh*it happens again.....

PAD can't stop now.

They'll have to, otherwise risk losing major support.

From what I understand the main purpose of the rally was to prevent the constitution being amended for the sake of protecting a few people. Looks like that's what they've achieved. Hats off to them. Job done, pack it up. Any sustained protesting from this point on serve little purpose but to disrupt.

If the government suddenly decide to resurrect this farcical plan then it'll be time to take to the streets again, but hopefully that won't happen - at least for a while.

The government did not say with one word that they stop it. Now there is a technical reason to stop for now. As soon PAD went home they restart and may arrest the leader.

Samak only need to tell: for the peace in Thailand I promise no change in the constitution for 6 month. That would be a reason to go home.

Jakrapob quits smiling knowing already the plan B. Some MP and Senators take back their signature for now.....Thats simply not enough.

You know the current lot will never in a million years turn round and say "oh yeah, it was a bit of a bad idea after all" - it's the usual face-saving nonsense. Also, if any member of the PAD are attacked in any way it'll only do more to justify their cause and for sure will bring everybody back to the streets. Even if an arrest might be exactly what the current lot want, I don't think even they are stupid enough to pursue it.

TOC

Interior Minister Reveals 3rd Party to Intervene in PAD Rally

UPDATE : 30 May 2008

The interior minister warns the People's Alliance for Democracy and the rally-goers that a third party is preparing to wreak havoc in order to intervene in the ongoing PAD protest.

Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung states that he has received a report on a possible attack by an ill-will group, wishing to interfere with the People's Alliance for Democracy rally and worsen the current conflict.

Chalerm says the group is the same gang responsible for the New Year's bomb attack in nine areas throughout the metropolitan, and that this time, the gang plans to imitate a violent act similat to that which occurred during the "Black May" in 1992.

Chalerm calls for the PAD to take responsibility if chaos takes place.

The interior minister also claims that the PAD rally is receiving financial support from an ally who is an illegal lottery gang and from gambling den owners. He says some political parties support the team and are joining the rally.

No comment......he seems to know that gang very well....

Yep, this is your typical PPP. And just what is Charlem going to do about this "ill-will group" ? Pay them later, probably...

[h90]

Well so far today we have the end of Jakrapob and the death of the constitutional ammendment bill (seemingly). We only need the PAD to decide to go home and all three of my predictions come true!

As someone else noted interesting to see Prem, Thaksin, Sarayud and Anupong all in the same place.

No it seems to be a trick from the government. As soon as they go home the same sh*it happens again.....

PAD can't stop now.

They'll have to, otherwise risk losing major support.

From what I understand the main purpose of the rally was to prevent the constitution being amended for the sake of protecting a few people. Looks like that's what they've achieved. Hats off to them. Job done, pack it up. Any sustained protesting from this point on serve little purpose but to disrupt.

If the government suddenly decide to resurrect this farcical plan then it'll be time to take to the streets again, but hopefully that won't happen - at least for a while.

The government did not say with one word that they stop it. Now there is a technical reason to stop for now. As soon PAD went home they restart and may arrest the leader.

Samak only need to tell: for the peace in Thailand I promise no change in the constitution for 6 month. That would be a reason to go home.

Jakrapob quits smiling knowing already the plan B. Some MP and Senators take back their signature for now.....Thats simply not enough.

You know the current lot will never in a million years turn round and say "oh yeah, it was a bit of a bad idea after all" - it's the usual face-saving nonsense. Also, if any member of the PAD are attacked in any way it'll only do more to justify their cause and for sure will bring everybody back to the streets. Even if an arrest might be exactly what the current lot want, I don't think even they are stupid enough to pursue it.

they could announce that they wait 3-6 month so the PAD can think, if they want to save their face. But I think Samak and the other guys don't care about face-saving at all, they care about money only. But well so it will continue. The EC is still preparing the referendum

TOC

Interior Minister Reveals 3rd Party to Intervene in PAD Rally

UPDATE : 30 May 2008

The interior minister warns the People's Alliance for Democracy and the rally-goers that a third party is preparing to wreak havoc in order to intervene in the ongoing PAD protest.

Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung states that he has received a report on a possible attack by an ill-will group, wishing to interfere with the People's Alliance for Democracy rally and worsen the current conflict.

Chalerm says the group is the same gang responsible for the New Year's bomb attack in nine areas throughout the metropolitan, and that this time, the gang plans to imitate a violent act similat to that which occurred during the "Black May" in 1992.

Chalerm calls for the PAD to take responsibility if chaos takes place.

The interior minister also claims that the PAD rally is receiving financial support from an ally who is an illegal lottery gang and from gambling den owners. He says some political parties support the team and are joining the rally.

No comment......he seems to know that gang very well....

Yep, this is your typical PPP. And just what is Charlem going to do about this "ill-will group" ? Pay them later, probably...

maybe they increased the price so Charlem called them "ill-will group" the other question is if he had his fingers in the New Year bomb attack.

At 1992 if I got it right the government let the police shoot on the people. So is that what he wants to do??

[hammered]

According to TOC some dude from Roi Et is going to resubmit the constitution ammendment. I think he is from the Chidchobnik faction of the PPP and he is quite scathing of those who withdrew support. It looks like there are divisions in the government side that may not be easy (or should that read cheap) to iron out. This may also have an effect on whether the PAD stay or go just when it looked like they would have to go. Very unstable times.

[Samuian]

If the government suddenly decide to resurrect this farcical plan then it'll be time to take to the streets again, but hopefully that won't happen - at least for a while.

Don't take the temporary withdrawal for granted!

Some people do have a lot to lose, they won't give up too soon!

Nevertheless, the PAD should go home and call it their day!

[jumnien]

You people go back and forth about who is the white knight saving the country and who is the evil institution bent on ruining the country. Believe me, there is a bit of good in the worst of us and a bit of bad in the best of us; and them! The important point is on what do you place your complete faith in blind militarism against relatively free elections?

[Samuian]

... The important point is on what do you place your complete faith in blind militarism against relatively free elections?

Who?

The people discussing a political situation or those who are up in "arms" against a group of people who would like to bend the constitution, once again towards their agenda and to get the shackles of some of their beloved sponsors, they devote all their influence to, exceptionally for materialistic and financial gains?

Edited May 30, 2008 by Samuian

[jumnien]

... The important point is on what do you place your complete faith in blind militarism against relatively free elections?

Who?

The people discussing a political situation or those who are up in "arms" against a group of people who would like to bend the constitution, once again towards their agenda and to get the shackles of some of their beloved sponsors, they devote all their influence to, exceptionally for materialistic and financial gains?

I don't think your assertion that the military junta "bent" the well-loved constitution of 1997. It's more like they ran it and the heart of the Thai people over with armed tanks. There does seem to be devotion on all sides for materialistic and financial gains, as in all societies it is the great motivator. But really, supporting these jack-booted thugs in their efforts to bring another coup, what will that bring to Thailand? 50 more Grippen fighters?

[marshbags]

If the government suddenly decide to resurrect this farcical plan then it'll be time to take to the streets again, but hopefully that won't happen - at least for a while.

Don't take the temporary withdrawal for granted!

Some people do have a lot to lose, they won't give up too soon!

Nevertheless, the PAD should go home and call it their day!

The Nation breaking news:-

PPP files second motion on charter rewrite

The People Power Party decided on Friday to file a second motion on charter rewrite after its first one was dropped due to insufficient sponsors.

"The PPP plans a motion on charter amendments to be submitted before the convening of the extraordinary House session on June 9," MP Supachai Phosu said.

A party's 12member panel will be in charge of drafting the motion and solicit the endorsement beginning on Monday, Supachai said.

He said the motion refiling was not meant as a challenge to street protests organised by the People's Alliance for Democracy but to fulfill a campaign pledge to amend the charter.

He also stated that the charter debate will not commence before the outcome of the planned referendum on whether to rewrite charter provisions.

SINCE WHEN WAS IT ALREADY APPROVED ?????

Suphan Buri Senator Prasit Potasuthon, leader of the group of senators who withdrew their names yesterday, said they decided to withdraw their names after learning from the media the previous day that the People's Alliance Democracy leaders had agreed to end their protest if the motion was dropped.

The group had not been able to contact Buri Ram Senator Taweesak Kidbanjong and Phetchabun Senator Somporn Juman, but they might withdraw their names as well, he said.

The withdrawal of the seven senators' names has reduced number of MPs and senators supporting the motion from 131 to 124 - two less than the minimum required.

Nisit Sinthuprai, a People Power Party MP from Roi Et, said his group would gather signatures to launch the motion again as they wanted the Constitution to be more democratic.

The motion needs at least 96 MPs to support it and the group is confident of reaching that number, Nisit said. However, they would drop the move if the result of a proposed national referendum on the amendment were negative, he said.

He said the MPs had a right to push for the charter amendment and did not need a party resolution, and those who withdrew their support would have to explain their decision to their voters. However, the group would listen to opinions in the party, he said.

Senator Prasit said his group would not support a fresh motion for charter amendment in the near future and would wait for the result of the national referendum on the issue.

The group earlier in the day approached PAD leaders at Parliament House to ask them to stop their protest as a condition for withdrawing support for the charter amendment. However, the PAD leaders declined to discuss this with the senators, saying they had come to submit a petition to impeach those who supported the motion.

Unquote.

The PAD do right to keep the demonstrations going and have no alternative with these unprincipled self serving individuals.

How the international community perceive all this already is a forgone conclusion !!!!

I do not like to say it, but sadly we are about to see things get rough and a possible repeat of times gone by.

The PPP are intent on confrontation and for me seem more than willing to cause mischief and mayhem.

Do they care about all the electorate they are supposed to be looking after or indeed Thailands future ?

Do they <deleted>, and that,s obvious.

marshbags concerned.. and very

P.S.

Dropped does not mean temp. withdrawn if anyone is going to indicate the PAD had agreed to " drop it "

It means cease, lapse and abandon

Edited May 30, 2008 by marshbags

[KireB]

Can you explain your logic/meaning? paid by whom, supporting who? These are pro-Thaksin or anti-Pad side hooligians! Who else creates violence in this country? (besides unrest in the South). I don't think Thaksin would hire such people. He hires big masses from the country-side who come to cheer him. Thes are hardcore crazy Thaksin fans, which don't need money to make a mess.

Sure! And you probably believe in Santa too!

[h90]

If the government suddenly decide to resurrect this farcical plan then it'll be time to take to the streets again, but hopefully that won't happen - at least for a while.

Don't take the temporary withdrawal for granted!

Some people do have a lot to lose, they won't give up too soon!

Nevertheless, the PAD should go home and call it their day!

The Nation breaking news:-

PPP files second motion on charter rewrite

The People Power Party decided on Friday to file a second motion on charter rewrite after its first one was dropped due to insufficient sponsors.

"The PPP plans a motion on charter amendments to be submitted before the convening of the extraordinary House session on June 9," MP Supachai Phosu said.

A party's 12member panel will be in charge of drafting the motion and solicit the endorsement beginning on Monday, Supachai said.

He said the motion refiling was not meant as a challenge to street protests organised by the People's Alliance for Democracy but to fulfill a campaign pledge to amend the charter.

He also stated that the charter debate will not commence before the outcome of the planned referendum on whether to rewrite charter provisions.

SINCE WHEN WAS IT ALREADY APPROVED ?????

Suphan Buri Senator Prasit Potasuthon, leader of the group of senators who withdrew their names yesterday, said they decided to withdraw their names after learning from the media the previous day that the People's Alliance Democracy leaders had agreed to end their protest if the motion was dropped.

The group had not been able to contact Buri Ram Senator Taweesak Kidbanjong and Phetchabun Senator Somporn Juman, but they might withdraw their names as well, he said.

The withdrawal of the seven senators' names has reduced number of MPs and senators supporting the motion from 131 to 124 - two less than the minimum required.

Nisit Sinthuprai, a People Power Party MP from Roi Et, said his group would gather signatures to launch the motion again as they wanted the Constitution to be more democratic.

The motion needs at least 96 MPs to support it and the group is confident of reaching that number, Nisit said. However, they would drop the move if the result of a proposed national referendum on the amendment were negative, he said.

He said the MPs had a right to push for the charter amendment and did not need a party resolution, and those who withdrew their support would have to explain their decision to their voters. However, the group would listen to opinions in the party, he said.

Senator Prasit said his group would not support a fresh motion for charter amendment in the near future and would wait for the result of the national referendum on the issue.

The group earlier in the day approached PAD leaders at Parliament House to ask them to stop their protest as a condition for withdrawing support for the charter amendment. However, the PAD leaders declined to discuss this with the senators, saying they had come to submit a petition to impeach those who supported the motion.

Unquote.

The PAD do right to keep the demonstrations going and have no alternative with these unprincipled self serving individuals.

How the international community perceive all this already is a forgone conclusion !!!!

I do not like to say it, but sadly we are about to see things get rough and a possible repeat of times gone by.

The PPP are intent on confrontation and for me seem more than willing to cause mischief and mayhem.

Do they care about all the electorate they are supposed to be looking after or indeed Thailands future ?

Do they <deleted>, and that,s obvious.

marshbags concerned.. and very

P.S.

Dropped does not mean temp. withdrawn if anyone is going to indicate the PAD had agreed to " drop it "

It means cease, lapse and abandon

How foolish as well! If swines-face tells in his weired language that the constitution amendmention is from the table and he reshuffles the government and let rumors about good people go around and as soon as PAD goes home he restart everything again.

[h90]

Can you explain your logic/meaning? paid by whom, supporting who? These are pro-Thaksin or anti-Pad side hooligians! Who else creates violence in this country? (besides unrest in the South). I don't think Thaksin would hire such people. He hires big masses from the country-side who come to cheer him. Thes are hardcore crazy Thaksin fans, which don't need money to make a mess.

Sure! And you probably believe in Santa too!

Santa Thaksin? Who paid back Thailands debts by himself and who paid the 30 Baht medical treatment personally by himself?

(they told so in Isaan, but I guess thats even for the most stupid hard to believe)

[younghusband]

The middle classes of Bangkok frankly don't by and large "get it"

I can't recall either PAD or middle class representatives arguing against helping the poor, they never protest against any price fixing scheme or subsidies, for example. CTX debalce will get their attention. Poor loan repayments under Village Fund scheme won't. They don't blame the poor for going out and spending tax money, they hardly even blame Thaksin for that.

They "get it", by and large.

If you disagree - give me some examples to consider.

majority will sooner or later have the upper hand politically.The Democrats will have to adjust policies and show better leadership

Being in the majority doesn't make you right. Poor governance is always going to be opposed (hopefully).

I prefer Democrats to stand for what is right rather than for what is popular. We have enough populist parties without any substance as it is.

Actually many middle class Bangkokians did blame (more than that really -hated,cursed, absurdly vilified) Thaksin for his populist measures in the countryside, partly because of a casual indifference (possibly ethnically influenced?) to the less advantaged but mainly because of the fear of the political fulcrum moving against their interests.Of course this wasn't all happening at the conscious level.And yes we do have to think about the patronage system and rival networks:that's part of it too.I also want to stress that contrary to received wisdom there are huge numbers of well educated urban dwellers who are much more ambivalent in their political views, and saw Thaksin for all his faults as a positive influence.

Despite the rhetoric the current troublemakers, apart from the incurably naive, aren't really that bothered about the constitution.(It's still Thailand remember not a country with civic responsibility or any serious sense of society, notwithstanding the progress made in the last two decades).The oddities like Chamlong and those of his way of thinking simply want Thaksin Corporation destroyed.The democratic process doesn't work for them (if elections are only half way fair they will still always lose) so they resort to causing trouble on the streets, hopefully to provoke a coup.Perhaps they will get their way:we know there are some fairly unsavoury generals out there who are inured against treason.I don't know but the atmosphere is fetid now so all bets are off.

But as I have repeatedly pointed out time and gravity are not on the side of the coupmakers.In the last decade there have been major improvements in peoples economic living standards, with much of this generated by activities outside Bangkok.The rural majority has been fully politicised and at the very least want their numbers and views to be properly recognised in national politics.Without a Burmese style solution -admittedly what some hanker for- it will increasingly be difficult for the Thai peoples elected representatives to be chucked out by treasonable generals or Bangkok mobs.

Edited May 30, 2008 by younghusband

[h90]

The middle classes of Bangkok frankly don't by and large "get it"

I can't recall either PAD or middle class representatives arguing against helping the poor, they never protest against any price fixing scheme or subsidies, for example. CTX debalce will get their attention. Poor loan repayments under Village Fund scheme won't. They don't blame the poor for going out and spending tax money, they hardly even blame Thaksin for that.

They "get it", by and large.

If you disagree - give me some examples to consider.

majority will sooner or later have the upper hand politically.The Democrats will have to adjust policies and show better leadership

Being in the majority doesn't make you right. Poor governance is always going to be opposed (hopefully).

I prefer Democrats to stand for what is right rather than for what is popular. We have enough populist parties without any substance as it is.

Actually many middle class Bangkokians did blame (more than that really -hated,cursed, absurdly vilified) Thaksin for his populist measures in the countryside, partly because of a casual indifference (possibly ethnically influenced?) to the less advantaged but mainly because of the fear of the political fulcrum moving against their interests.Of course this wasn't all happening at the conscious level.And yes we do have to think about the patronage system and rival networks:that's part of it too.I also want to stress that contrary to received wisdom there are huge numbers of well educated urban dwellers who are much more ambivalent in their political views, and saw Thaksin for all his faults as a positive influence.

Despite the rhetoric the current troublemakers, apart from the incurably naive, aren't really that bothered about the constitution.(It's still Thailand remember not a country with civic responsibility or any serious sense of society, notwithstanding the progress made in the last two decades).The oddities like Chamlong and those of his way of thinking simply want Thaksin Corporation destroyed.The democratic process doesn't work for them (if elections are only half way fair they will still always lose)what about a complete fair election? But one hint, the PAD leaders can't be elected, they aren't a party and also with a coup they won't get into power so they resort to causing trouble on the streets, hopefully to provoke a coup.Perhaps they will get their way:we know there are some fairly unsavoury generals out there who are inured against treason.I don't know but the atmosphere is fetid now so all bets are off.

But as I have repeatedly pointed out time and gravity are not on the side of the coupmakers.In the last decade there have been major improvements in peoples economic living standards, with much of this generated by activities outside Bangkok.The rural majority has been fully politicised and at the very least want their numbers and views to be properly recognised in national politics.Without a Burmese style solution -admittedly what some hanker for- it will increasingly be difficult for the Thai peoples elected representatives who was elected?? they want to change the constitution so they don't get disbanded because of fraud on the last electionto be chucked out by treasonable generals or Bangkok mobs.

[nomoretalksin]

according TOC: 25'000people now at the PAD rally.

Meanwhile PPP already launched a 2nd motion, after the first one failed date.

Younghusband, I think it's a bit naiv and short-sight to call the PAD current trouble-makers.

Why don't the people accused of fraud go the courts, and clear their names if the

are so innocent (instead of purge the courts via a second motion)?

I just wonder who are the real trouble makers here?

Hope for a peaceful PAD rally date

nice eve