People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[thaigene2]

Try not to be emotional and think strategically for a minute. You may hate him, but yourself 'strategically' in Samak's shoes - even better perhaps if you think he' a thug...Because he's now been handed the excuse he needs to crackdown on these guys - that they are there to topple the democratically elected govt. An insurrection by any other name.

So his options?

1. try to appear conciliatory - he's just done that and will 'claim' to have been bending over backwards with what happened on Friday. true or not - so what.

2. wait it out or keep diverting traffic as someone above said. Result? More people will join the rallies (the TRT/PPP haters and others) and his "problem" will grow. He won;t be so easily able to contain it, there could be clashes with others, and then the army has it's "excuse" egged on by the Establishment to end the "social and political crisis/deadlock" and get rid of their arch enemies in the populist/thaksin/PPP movement.

3. Take action now while it's still managable and relatively small - some people will get hurt but if the police are reigned in enough it may be minor - and he'll say it was justified.

What option you choose if you were Samak?

[marshbags]

The assault is apparently postponed - there's an awful lot of people to arrest. They might move in in the middle of the night, though.

PAD has been preparing for this protest for months, they can't just get up and go home, and the constitution matter is still far from being resolved.

What about the stupid referendum? What about the second motion? What about unveiling a drafting commitee scheduled for Wednesday? What about Samak's threat of force?

The situation is in balance and it could go either way, it's not the time to pack it up yet.

>>>>

Tens of thousands of people by the look of it. Makes me proud of Thaialnd.

A part quote from the B.Post offers some hope on the situation along with a suggestion Samak / his sponsor are not in total control of the police as is being took for granted.

Quote:-

Most of several thousand police pulled back and took off their riot gear just before dusk. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) kept up a noisy street protest, while some PAD members faced off with a line of riot police across a five-metre barricade just behind the protest.

Unquote.

Ref url :- http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127926

Could it be a sign of 2006 when the sponsor of all this present unrest was dealt with, as against a violent confrontation, he was intent on having.

Just maybe others are now getting involved and influencing the scenario, as was then also.

Please god, let it be so.

marshbags

Edited May 31, 2008 by marshbags

[h90]

Try not to be emotional and think strategically for a minute. You may hate him, but yourself 'strategically' in Samak's shoes - even better perhaps if you think he' a thug...Because he's now been handed the excuse he needs to crackdown on these guys - that they are there to topple the democratically elected govt. An insurrection by any other name.

So his options?

1. try to appear conciliatory - he's just done that and will 'claim' to have been bending over backwards with what happened on Friday. true or not - so what.

2. wait it out or keep diverting traffic as someone above said. Result? More people will join the rallies (the TRT/PPP haters and others) and his "problem" will grow. He won;t be so easily able to contain it, there could be clashes with others, and then the army has it's "excuse" egged on by the Establishment to end the "social and political crisis/deadlock" and get rid of their arch enemies in the populist/thaksin/PPP movement.

3. Take action now while it's still managable and relatively small - some people will get hurt but if the police are reigned in enough it may be minor - and he'll say it was justified.

What option you choose if you were Samak?

You are complete right, just Mak was too late. Now too many people he can't do it anymore. For the moment he lost. But he can do it on Monday morning and he'll win.

[bulmercke]

The assault is apparently postponed - there's an awful lot of people to arrest. They might move in in the middle of the night, though.

PAD has been preparing for this protest for months, they can't just get up and go home, and the constitution matter is still far from being resolved.

What about the stupid referendum? What about the second motion? What about unveiling a drafting commitee scheduled for Wednesday? What about Samak's threat of force?

The situation is in balance and it could go either way, it's not the time to pack it up yet.

>>>>

Tens of thousands of people by the look of it. Makes me proud of Thaialnd.

A part quote from the B.Post offers some hope on the situation along with a sugestion Samak is not in total control of the police.

Quote:-

[b]Most of several thousand police pulled back and took off their riot gear just before dusk. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) kept up a noisy street protest, while some PAD members faced off with a line of riot police across a five-metre barricade just behind the protest.[/b]

Unquote.

Ref url :- http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127926

Could it be a sign of 2006 when the sponsor of all this present unrest was dealt with, as against a violent confrontation.

Just maybe others are now getting involved and influencing the scenario,as was then also.

Please god let it be so.

marshbags

There's no doubt in my mind that force will be used to disperse the protesters tonight - sometime.

The fact that the police have disrobed - taken off their riot gear - is most probably just a tactic to temporarily diffuse the tension and to get protesters to believe that there will be no attack tonight - encouraging many protesters to go home safe in the belief that they will be able to return tomorrow to continue the protest.

Of course - the opposite will be the reality. All tactics!

[h90]

got told there were news from the government that they allow that PAD continue there, but don't know more...

Wife want to listen not translate...

[Plus]

With his morning address Samak has singlehandedly escalated the situation that was about to go away on itself in a few days time.

What would I do if I was him - anything but the use of force, or even a threat of use of force.

Just wait for the reaction from business and investment community, and think what it would do to the economy. Constant risk of a PM flying off his handle and provoking serious violence is not helping, not to Surapong's obsessions with road shows - "come and invest, this place is about to go in flames".

Even people outside of PAD will have a lot to say about Samak's morning intervention.

Thaigene, it's not about moving a few people from Makkawan - there will be serious retaliation across the country. Roads, airports, trains - everything would be paralised.

[frodo]

BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Thailand's prime minister has warned he may send in police and soldiers to disperse several hundred people who have been staging an around-the-clock protest in Bangkok for the past six days.

The Peoples Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is protesting proposed changed to Thailand's constitution which would protect former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his followers from corruption charges.

Thaksin's party, the People Power Party (PPP), is the largest member of the current coalition government.

Guess it's really no secret who is actually in charge of the possible "crackdown" this evening.

Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...ests/index.html

[thaigene2]

He's been backed into a corner Plus - the Establishment hate him and were shocked that their last Coup didn't result in a Democrat win - since that was the whole idea;

the Army marches to the tune of the Establishment (no surprise the protestors chose to camp out in front of 'their friend's house (ARMY HQ),

and the PAD challenge to not move from the road that runs from the Royal Plaza past the Army HQ until he resigns - has left him no options.

That's my point - he has no choice now. He said he's not going to resign.

What do think that means now? Don;t be fooled by the taking off of rot gear - I've seen these things happen in other countries - it's a tactic. It's coming very soon.

(However, I agree it could wait til dawn now - think they should have started at around 2pm this afternoon - a tactical mistake in my view. I'm not sure that a night raid in a group that size is a tactical advantage for anyone - coul go either way - though it worked for the army in Tiannanmen Square. Of course the latetr was a bunch of students versus tanks and machine guns - a no brainer I guess)

[lopburi3]

From the Nation and just broadcast on Thai TV.

No use of forces to end the rally : Chalerm

There will not be use of forces to end the rally at Makawan Rangsan Bridge, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said Saturday.

The protesters are allowed to continue their protest as long as their protest did not break the laws, Chalerm said.

"PM Samak said there would have use of forces to end the rally because he received reports that ill-intentioned people had a plan to instigate the situation and turned it into violence," Chalerm said.

[thaigene2]

From the Nation and just broadcast on Thai TV.

No use of forces to end the rally : Chalerm

There will not be use of forces to end the rally at Makawan Rangsan Bridge, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said Saturday.

The protesters are allowed to continue their protest as long as their protest did not break the laws, Chalerm said.

"PM Samak said there would have use of forces to end the rally because he received reports that ill-intentioned people had a plan to instigate the situation and turned it into violence," Chalerm said.

Either mis-information - to get them off their guard, or they are going to try something else like a court order tog et them to move...the longer he waits though, the more trouble he'll have ending this. The PAD will now say they are there indefinitely..until the Government resigns. He's screwed he has no choice but to take back the treet as far as I can see. Anywa, hope for the best - maybe a court order and a day or two to cool down would change things? Would the PAD defy a court order?

[bulmercke]

No use of forces to end the rally : Chalerm

There will not be use of forces to end the rally at Makawan Rangsan Bridge, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said Saturday.

The protesters are allowed to continue their protest as long as their protest did not break the laws, Chalerm said.

"PM Samak said there would have use of forces to end the rally because he received reports that ill-intentioned people had a plan to instigate the situation and turned it into violence," Chalerm said.

This can be interpreted anyway you like. Again - all tactics.

The rally will be broken-up forcibly sometime in the early hours of the morning.

100%

[A_Traveller]

He backed himself into the corner, if he'd simply stated last night that PPP would return to their original position on constitutional amendments and reform as a low order of business, which, after all, is what he started out doing, he would have placed PAD on the back foot. Equally if they'd arranged for Jakrapob to appear at the police, as he was supposed to do, today with due fanfare, then these actions would have further reduced PAD's platform options. However he chose not to do that, nor did he disassociate from the renewed constitutional amendment process tabled after the first had been determined.

This morning, by insulting the leaders of PAD by 'not knowing them' or more accurately, not seeing them, thereby denying 'face', he endeavours to extinguish the fire with gasoline. I wonder why he felt compelled, {or pushed} to renege on the charter plan and treat the leaders in such a fashion, ignorance or something else?

There is still a risk of violence later, Chalerm not withstanding, which could easily lead to the 'send for Thaksin' movement to gain traction {they are there waiting} which would not be in Samak's personal interests or the country's. That's putting to one side the probable damage to the institutions that such an act would cause.

Regards

Edited May 31, 2008 by A_Traveller

[thaigene2]

BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Thailand's prime minister has warned he may send in police and soldiers to disperse several hundred people who have been staging an around-the-clock protest in Bangkok for the past six days.

The Peoples Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is protesting proposed changed to Thailand's constitution which would protect former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his followers from corruption charges.

Thaksin's party, the People Power Party (PPP), is the largest member of the current coalition government.

Guess it's really no secret who is actually in charge of the possible "crackdown" this evening.

Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...ests/index.html

That's why they call it "Sub"-Edit!

[paveet]

Ever thought about the possibility of a federalised Thailand, or a breakaway into two countries?

[thaigene2]

He backed himself into the corner, if he'd simply stated last night that PPP would return to their original position on constitutional amendments and reform as a low order of business, which, after all, is what he started out doing, he would have placed PAD on the back foot. Equally if they'd arranged for Jakrapob to appear at the police, as he was supposed to do, today with due fanfare, then these actions would have further reduced PAD's platform options. However he chose not to do that, nor did he disassociate from the renewed constitutional amendment process tabled after the first had been determined.

This morning, by insulting the leaders of PAD by 'not knowing them' or more accurately, not seeing them, thereby denying 'face', he endeavours to extinguish the fire with gasoline. I wonder why he felt compelled, {or pushed} to renege on the charter plan and treat the leaders in such a fashion, ignorance or something else?

There is still a risk of violence later, which could easily lead to the 'send for Thaksin' movement to gain traction {they are there waiting} which would not be in Samak's personal interests or the country's. That's putting to one side the probable damage to the institutions that such an act would cause.

Regards

Oh come on now - it doesn't matter WHAT he does now, they are not going to go home. They want a fight - You know? And they're going to get one by the looks of it. It's reached the point where the "smart" mouth is within seconds of losing a few teeth. He may be smarter, and he may be right, but that won't matter - because it's reached manhandling time.

[bulmercke]

Some 150 motorcyclists with green headband gather at Sanam Luang: police

Chana Songkhram police chief Pol Col Rangsan Praditphol said police were keeping a close watch on a group of some 150 motorcyclists who gathered at Sanam Luang.

Rangsan said the motorcyclists wore green headband and did not carry any arm.

"We are monitoring them and they just stay there," Rangsan said.

The Nation

Oh yes - the same guys that gathered outside the police head-quarters on Rama 1 Road two years ago - The Nation offices on Bangna-Trat highway - and Chatuchak.

All trouble-makers and thugs loyal to Samak and Thaksin.

"We are monitoring them and they just stay there," Rangsan said. - right!

How can the public have any confidence in the police when they allowed pro-government supporters to attack PAD supporters - last weekend - without any intervention whatsoever?

Edited May 31, 2008 by bulmercke

[nomoretalksin]

I just L O V E it! when newspapers just say it by the name!

Read last line: Thaksin's party, the People Power Party (PPP), is the largest member of the current coalition government.

QUOTE

Link/URL: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...ests/index.html

From CNN's Kocha Olarn in Bangkok

31. May 2008

BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Thailand's prime minister has warned he may send in police and soldiers to disperse several hundred people who have been staging an around-the-clock protest in Bangkok for the past six days. Ex-Thai PM Thaksin Shinawatra, pictured here this week, has been the subject of protests in Thailand.

The Peoples Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is protesting proposed changed to Thailand's constitution which would protect former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his followers from corruption charges. Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej issued his warning on government television Saturday, saying the protest must stop immediately and calling it a "make or break point."

PAD officials have rejected the warning and vowed to continue their demonstration which has not stopped since it began last Sunday.

It was a series of rallies by PAD in 2006 that led up to a military coup that toppled Prime Minister Thaksin, a wealthy telecommunications tycoon who now lives in exile. Thaksin's party, the People Power Party (PPP), is the largest member of the current coalition government.

UNQUOTE

no wishy-washy, just the truth!

[marshbags]

If this ends in a violent scenario it will plunge Thailand into an abyss in relation to the international community.

I reckon even Samak and his ilk must be considering such repercussions and in particular, lack of possible financial investments in the aftermath of such a situation which is sure to bring uncertaincy, should it take place.

The more affluent (or is that effluant ) members / supporters of the PPP / Sponsor EO would not hardly want that to happen.

Perhaps also, unlike years gone by the police are no longer robotic and many are humanised with families.

I,d like to think that Thailand has matured in a more socially acceptable manner among their fellow citizens and are sympathetic towards them.

We are after all not talking about serious threats on society or violent confrontation from the demonstrators.

My fear is that rogue infiltration could / will happen to trigger off such a situation via the paid thugs of the PPP / Sponsor E.O.

Let us face it many of them are no brainers who do not care about the human factors involved not have any qualms about starting trouble.

A bit like Chalerm and his family in fact !!!!!!!!!!!!

I Quote:-

No use of forces to end the rally : Chalerm Red seems an appropriate colour for this dodgy character

There will not be use of forces to end the rally at Makawan Rangsan Bridge, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said Saturday.

The protesters are allowed to continue their protest as long as their protest did not break the laws, Chalerm said.

unquote.

They are probably organising such a scenario ( have in place ) to allow a breaking of the law to bring the use of force in already.

On the other hand....................................

Perhaps i,m letting my suspicious mind get the better of me

marshbags

Edited May 31, 2008 by marshbags

[bulmercke]

I just L O V E it! when newspapers just say it by the name!

Read last line: Thaksin's party, the People Power Party (PPP), is the largest member of the current coalition government.

QUOTE

Link/URL: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...ests/index.html

From CNN's Kocha Olarn in Bangkok

31. May 2008

BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Thailand's prime minister has warned he may send in police and soldiers to disperse several hundred people who have been staging an around-the-clock protest in Bangkok for the past six days. Ex-Thai PM Thaksin Shinawatra, pictured here this week, has been the subject of protests in Thailand.

The Peoples Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is protesting proposed changed to Thailand's constitution which would protect former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his followers from corruption charges. Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej issued his warning on government television Saturday, saying the protest must stop immediately and calling it a "make or break point."

PAD officials have rejected the warning and vowed to continue their demonstration which has not stopped since it began last Sunday.

It was a series of rallies by PAD in 2006 that led up to a military coup that toppled Prime Minister Thaksin, a wealthy telecommunications tycoon who now lives in exile. [b]Thaksin's party, the People Power Party (PPP), is the largest member of the current coalition government.

UNQUOTE

[/b]no wishy-washy, just the truth!

Wow! A freudalent slip or not?

Edited May 31, 2008 by bulmercke

[bulmercke]

If this ends in a violent scenario it will plunge Thailand into an abyss in relation to the international community.

I reckon even Samak and his ilk must be considering such repercussions and in particular, lack of possible financial investments in the aftermath of such a situation which is sure to bring uncertaincy, should it take place.

The more affluent (or is that effluant ) members / supporters of the PPP / Sponsor EO would not hardly want that to happen.

Perhaps also, unlike years gone by the police are no longer robotic and many are humanised with families.

I,d like to think that Thailand has matured in a more socially acceptable manner among their fellow citizens and are sympathetic towards them.

We are after all not talking about serious threats on society or violent confrontation from the demonstrators.

My fear is that rogue infiltration could / will happen to trigger off such a situation via the paid thugs of the PPP / Sponsor E.O.

Let us face it many of them are no brainers who do not care about the human factors involved not have any qualms about starting trouble.

A bit like Chalerm and his family in fact !!!!!!!!!!!!

I Quote:-

No use of forces to end the rally : Chalerm Red seems an appropriate colour for this dodgy character

There will not be use of forces to end the rally at Makawan Rangsan Bridge, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said Saturday.

The protesters are allowed to continue their protest as long as their protest did not break the laws, Chalerm said.

unquote.

They are probably organising such a scenario ( have in place ) to allow a breaking of the law to bring the use of force in already.

On the other hand....................................

Perhaps i,m letting my suspicious mind get the better of me

marshbags

marshbags - this is exactly what happened in 1976 when para-military - so-called anti-communist groups - instigated most of the initial violence before the military properly stepped in.

[A_Traveller]

From the Nation

Leaders of coalition parties are holding an urgent meeting to evaluate political situation after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej threatened to use forces to end the rally. Pue Pandin Party leader Suwit Khunkitti and Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa already arrived at the restaurant. It is still unclear whether Samak, as leader of People Power Party, will join the meeting. ...

{spelling corrected} LINK

Regards

Edited May 31, 2008 by A_Traveller

[bulmercke]

From the Nation

Leaders of coalition parties are holding an urgent meeting to evaluate political situation after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej threatened to use forces to end the rally. Pue Pandin Party leader Suwit Khunkitti and Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa already arrived at the restaurant. It is still unclear whether Samak, as leader of People Power Party, will join the meeting. ...

{spelling corrected} LINK

Regards

Thanks A_Traveller

Here's the full report:

Coalition party leaders hold urgent meeting

By The Nation

Leaders of coalition parties are holding an urgent meeting to evaluate political situation after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej thretened to use forces to end the rally.

Pue Pandin Party leader Suwit Khunkitti and Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa already arrived at the restuarant.

It is still unclear whether Samak, as leader of People Power Party, will join the meeting.

Meanwhile police have tried to ask protesters to move to a new location and try their best not to use force to disperse the rally, Channel 7 reported.

The station said the top police officers resolved to talk to the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy to change the rally location intead of using force against the protesters.

Deputy police spokesman Pol Maj Gen Surapol Thuanthong said police were talking to the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy to help them relocate to a new rally site.

Surapol said police offered to help them move the stage and al belongings of the protesters to a new site of their choice.

He said the PAD could continue their rally at the People's Ground at the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's head office, Chatuchak Park or Lumpini Park.

The spokesman said police would not use force against the protesters because police did not regard them as criminals.

However, if the negotiation fails to come up with an agreement and the protest caused damages to other people, it would be up to the prime minister to decide whether to order police to use force, Surapol said.

>>>>>>>>>>

The bottom line is why do they have to move at all from their present location when - all considered - they're causing minimal disruption?

Edited May 31, 2008 by bulmercke

[thaigene2]

Ok well calm down - and as for this suggestion that prococatuers are in their midst - you know it could be that the PAD itself (or more likely the establishment types who are 'supporting' them but don't give really a sh+t about them) could provoke violence themselves and then BLAME it on some motorcycle guys in green headbands, or police secret agents, or whomever.

Keep and OPEN mind..

[A_Traveller]

Just me or have others lost the ASTV signal?

By the by, why is it those who often have such a compartmentalised view, recommend that others should have open minds.

Regards

[bulmercke]

Ok well calm down - and as for this suggestion that prococatuers are in their midst - you know it could be that the PAD itself (or more likely the establishment types who are 'supporting' them but don't give really a sh+t about them) could provoke violence themselves and then BLAME it on some motorcycle guys in green headbands, or police secret agents, or whomever.

Keep and OPEN mind..

Sorry thaigene2 - no way would they do this.

But what I'm feaful of is agents provocateurs who - no doubt - are NOW mingling among genuine PAD protesters - waiting for just the right moment to instigate a violent incident - to justify the intervention of the riot police.

[h90]

my wife translated:

PAD told, additional police is coming from (somewhere I didn't understand) at the moment they brake in Ayutthaya for diner. At midnight Samak want to activate emergency laws at midnight and attack. But that should be not possible according to a lawyer (my add: and common sense).

So problems continue.

[A_Traveller]

^ h90 translated from what source please, TV, radio, other {e.g private}?

Regards

Edited May 31, 2008 by A_Traveller

[h90]

^ h90 translated from what source please, TV, radio, other {e.g private}?

Regards

sorry ASTV

[A_Traveller]

^ thanks, my ASTV dropped out a while ago, so at least it still broadcasting.

Regards

[bulmercke]

my wife translated:

PAD told, additional police is coming from (somewhere I didn't understand) at the moment they brake in Ayutthaya for diner. At midnight Samak want to activate emergency laws at midnight and attack. But that should be not possible according to a lawyer (my add: and common sense).

So problems continue.

h90 - it's very predictable what's goin' to happen tonight - though - understandbly - there's evidently much doubt - and confusion as to what will really happen.

Samak said earlier in the morning at 9.00 AM that the protesters will be forcibly removed TODAY.

Nothing has changed to alter my opinion on what's goin' to unfold fairly shortly.

Disgusting really......when you consider that these PAD protesters are - without exception - law-abiding - decent individuals -