Thaksin To Come Home This Week

[younghusband]

So in your view the entire dance of the seven veils relating to resignation or lack of it does not constitute a basis for such a charge? Curiouser and curiouser, you type much, but really understand so little, it's extraordinary.

Regards

Yes my view is that there was and is no basis for the charge, indeed going further by saying it was self serving and fraudulent.

As for what you and I understand or don't understand, that is entirely subjective and therefore not worth commenting on.

[A_Traveller]

^ Thanks for the response, the contents of which I note. You are entitled to your opinion, though even then you have to make a 'smart edit'. Shame, rather like intentionally removing a qualifier from a post to try to make a spurious point, as you have done before. Pity but unsurprising.

Regards

Edited February 27, 2008 by A_Traveller

[thaigene2]

EX-PM'S RETURN

Thaksin to come home this week

Democrats urge calm, but PAD threatens to hold protests

.....

However, the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) said yesterday it would oppose Thaksin's return and threatened to revive street protests, which in 2006 led to a political crisis and finally a military coup that ousted him from the premiership.

-- The Nation 2008-02-25

So let's see.....PAD wanted Thaksin charged for malfeasance, and tried, etc. The courts have done that. Thakisn now wants to return to face the courts....and - oh look - PAD are now against that and threatening more street demos.

So which is it? Do you want him to stand trial or not? There's nothing democratic about PAD and the corrupt establishment-types that back them that's for sure..

I hope Thaksin gets what he deserves. But he has the right to face the music and tell his side of the story doesn't he? Isn't that a 'democratic right', PAD?

[A_Traveller]

^ Whilst having some sympathy for the point, the agenda appears to be that Thaksin will arrive back, and not face the music, and there's the rub.

Regards

[farang prince]

When handling a poisonous snake, you must be efficient with the first killing blow or the snake can turn on you and inflict a fatal bite. There is no doubt that Thaksin is a very dangerous snake who can't be allowed to poison the Thai society. At some point, someone is going to decide that there is addition by subtraction. When that happens, it will be a good idea to be out of the country. It could get very nasty.

Edited February 27, 2008 by farang prince

[Scott]

He's a citizen of the country and the sooner he returns the better. His stature is getting increased to that of the boogey-man. He is and will continue to be influential, but it's better to have him on the home turf that running around the world.

[younghusband]

^ Thanks for the response, the contents of which I note. You are entitled to your opinion, though even then you have to make a 'smart edit'. Shame, rather like intentionally removing a qualifier from a post to try to make a spurious point, as you have done before. Pity but unsurprising.

Regards

Sorry you've lost me.Can you identify the smart edit so that I (and others) can see whether it materially changed the context of your point.Certainly there was no intention to mislead.

[otherstuff1957]

OK folks, let's stop those B. Aquino comparasons right now!

Remember what that assasination lead to? Yes, the election of his widow!

Now, how many of us would like to see Pojeman as PM of Thailand.

[thedude]

as a long suffering thaksin supporter, i am extremely happy he's returning.

welcome back thaksin!

[trader1]

EX-PM'S RETURN

Thaksin to come home this week

Democrats urge calm, but PAD threatens to hold protests

.....

However, the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) said yesterday it would oppose Thaksin's return and threatened to revive street protests, which in 2006 led to a political crisis and finally a military coup that ousted him from the premiership.

-- The Nation 2008-02-25

So let's see.....PAD wanted Thaksin charged for malfeasance, and tried, etc. The courts have done that. Thakisn now wants to return to face the courts....and - oh look - PAD are now against that and threatening more street demos.

So which is it? Do you want him to stand trial or not? There's nothing democratic about PAD and the corrupt establishment-types that back them that's for sure..

I hope Thaksin gets what he deserves. But he has the right to face the music and tell his side of the story doesn't he? Isn't that a 'democratic right', PAD?

How many protests did the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) arrange against the military coup. Did they at least have one to try to see coup leaders taken to court.. I mean their purpose is to uphold democracy, right?

[steffi]

The only reason he's coming back is to get his cash back. He probably wants to take a load back with him on his "private plane"

[Plus]

If anyone is planning the assassination, Thaksin will be frisked by a helicopter to Meridien before he goes to the court. Surface to air missile seems like the best shot. But don't tell anyone you heard it from me.

Re. lese majeste - although it's a serious offence, it's just words, unless they are recorded you can deny everything. That's what YH seems to be doing.

It's a case of my word against yours. Do you trust Thaksin on the matter? Or Samak, who wasn't even there? I wasn't there either, but I do trust people who have heard it from Thaksin and his people personally, and went on record. Specifically Prasong Soonsiri and a senator whose name escapes me at the moment.

I don't want to play a laywer and insist that he is innocent until proven guilty, I'm not sure Younghusband want to be that laywer, too, I just don't know the reason for his blunt denials.

[Jai Dee]

PPP makes plans for February 28th return of Thaksin

Managing Director of Airports of Thailand (AOT) Company Air Marshal Chana Yusathaporn (ชนะ อยู่สถาพร) admitted that the People Power Party has coordinated with the company for the receiving of former Prime Minister Doctor Thaksin Shinawatra tomorrow morning (February 28th).

Air Marshal Chana stated that at the moment the company is overlooking details and logistical plans as to not affect the arrival and business of other travelers to Suvarnabhumi Airport. AOT has contacted the airport’s executives to take care of the matter.

The Managing Director also said that in terms of security AOT will work with police to insure the safety of Doctor Thaksin. Air Marshal Chana believes that no incidents will occur during the ex-premier’s arrival, especially between pro and anti-Thaksin groups. Nonetheless, AOT has not received a definite time schedule for Doctor Thaksin’s return.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 February 2008

[younghusband]

If anyone is planning the assassination, Thaksin will be frisked by a helicopter to Meridien before he goes to the court. Surface to air missile seems like the best shot. But don't tell anyone you heard it from me.

Re. lese majeste - although it's a serious offence, it's just words, unless they are recorded you can deny everything. That's what YH seems to be doing.

It's a case of my word against yours. Do you trust Thaksin on the matter? Or Samak, who wasn't even there? I wasn't there either, but I do trust people who have heard it from Thaksin and his people personally, and went on record. Specifically Prasong Soonsiri and a senator whose name escapes me at the moment.

I don't want to play a laywer and insist that he is innocent until proven guilty, I'm not sure Younghusband want to be that laywer, too, I just don't know the reason for his blunt denials.

My head is beginning to spin.So it's our old friend Prasong Soonsiri (and the senator whose name you forget) who have the proof.Odd that they didn't make the details public.My "blunt denials" simply reflect the lack of evidence that Thaksin is not as loyal as anyone else in the Kingdom.Doesn't mean he hasn't had a crack at Prem, but that's a different matter.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is bubbling to the surface given Thaksin's imminent return and the fact that none of the charges against him have been proven.So the feudalists and their apologists look for an issue which they know to be highly sensitive.They dither and equivocate however because they know this could spring back in their faces.

[Briggsy]

PPP makes plans for February 28th return of Thaksin

Air Marshal Chana stated that at the moment the company is overlooking details and logistical plans as to not affect the arrival and business of other travelers to Suvarnabhumi Airport. AOT has contacted the airport’s executives to take care of the matter.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 February 2008

The AOT seems very good at that, "overlooking details and plans"

[thaigene2]

Yes I don't see the 'feudalists and apologists' letting Thaksin run around Thailand holding court for very long, does anyone else? I agree with Farang Prince in the sense that this guy's life is in danger once he returns to Dodge.

[thaigene2]

PPP makes plans for February 28th return of Thaksin

Air Marshal Chana stated that at the moment the company is overlooking details and logistical plans as to not affect the arrival and business of other travelers to Suvarnabhumi Airport. AOT has contacted the airport’s executives to take care of the matter.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 February 2008

The AOT seems very good at that, "overlooking details and plans"

Nice one

[chownah]

Well, given the strictures herein, such a discussion would be extremely difficult, however, there is a school of thought that says that after stating clearly 'That if one person whispered in his ear he would step down', and the drama of his belligerent appearance on TV stating he would never resign, after the 2006 'electoral fiasco', followed by the helicopter ride after which he 'handed over authority', only to return to the Premiership 'to ensure that the celebrations of HM's accession were correctly handled', that the die had been cast. By the by, for those who are knowledgeable of protocol there were some very strange incidents during the celebrations as well.

The irony here is that Thaksin invested considerable time and resources in using the Lèse majesté as and when he saw fit, in most cases, through proxies, naturally, to ensure criticism of the political be kept to a minimum. Indeed, this led to HM publicly advising, though some would have said rebuking him, in his birthday speech, over the number and breadth of such suits, which were promptly dropped.

Regards

The only thing you mention in this post which could be realistically construed as an insult to H.M. the King is the statement which you attribute to Toxin: 'That if one person whispered in his ear he would step down'. While we of course can not be sure who Toxin was referring to I think that the point which is being missed here is that the meaning of this is that Toxin is indicating that there is one person he respects so much that if that person just quietly asked him to step down then he would step down. This quote is actually a show of great respect for the person Toxin is referring to because it shows that Toxin would do that person's bidding without question and without arguement and that Toxin would do nothing to oppose or to cause any extra effort after receiving the initial statement of what that person wishes Toxin to do. The fact that this great show of respect was twisted and spun until some had the gaul to suggest that it was an insult is a tribute to the darkness of the dark side of Thai politics and journalism.

Chownah

[Tony Clifton]

Better dead than back if you ask me.

I'm not sure if I understand you here..... you think Toxin should be killed if he tries to enter the country?

Chownah

It's not like the decision is mine is it?

I can't guarantee you that not a single one of the tens of thousands of relatives of drug war victims wants to kill him. Same goes for the countless other enemies he's made over the years.

What goes around comes around.

Yet more assasination fantasy.So mindless as well since the way to neutralise Thaksin is for him to face a fair trial and then be made irrelevant.

Assassination fantasy? Thaksin himself claimed there's been numerous assassination attempts against him, didn't he? Mind you it was always an exageration or a figment of his imagination or some concocted event in order to boost his popularity with compassion with a fake bomb.

As for a fair trial, remains to be seen if he hasn't been manipulating the actors behind the scene as he's done before.

[chownah]

Assassination fantasy? Thaksin himself claimed there's been numerous assassination attempts against him, didn't he?

...so....it is not a fantasy?

Mind you it was always an exageration or a figment of his imagination or some concocted event in order to boost his popularity with compassion with a fake bomb.

....or is it a fantasy?

Chownah

[Samuian]

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is bubbling to the surface given Thaksin's imminent return and the fact that none of the charges against him have been proven.So the feudalists and their apologists look for an issue which they know to be highly sensitive.They dither and equivocate however because they know this could spring back in their faces.

So, so... Feudalists...apologists ey... didn't mention Roya...., why, I "wonder"...!

"to welcome home Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra," is quoted somewhere at the beginning of this thread.

At least he, whatever dirt he has on his hands... is welcome as "Prime Minister" by whom?

By people who condone the extra judical killings of hundreds if not thousands and, and, and?

The PROVEN illegal land deal (well ah yes that was his wife, right?).... well agreed it's up to the courts... and here we go...

Are you working at his publicity and marketing or at his defense lawyer's office?

Edited February 27, 2008 by Samuian

[A_Traveller]

... The fact that this great show of respect was twisted and spun until some had the gaul to suggest that it was an insult is a tribute to the darkness of the dark side of Thai politics and journalism.

Chownah

You have got to be kidding. In case you didn't notice he returned to the role, so despite the great show of {alleged} respect, he ignored the request, though if you'd argued that it was in and of itself, constitutionally questionable at least that would have made sense.

Regards

PS I'm off for a few days now, so enjoy the return.

PPS FYI it's gall, assuming you mean effrontery.

[steveromagnino]

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is bubbling to the surface given Thaksin's imminent return and the fact that none of the charges against him have been proven.So the feudalists and their apologists look for an issue which they know to be highly sensitive.They dither and equivocate however because they know this could spring back in their faces.

Obviously, innocent until proven guilty. And there are a series of cases which will take a while to play out. We know he was guilty of asset concealment, but surprisingly was not punished for it (and I happen, as I assume do many TRT insiders, to know why that was); similar but not yet proven are his children surprisingly gaining entry to Chula and Kaset...or his wife being able to buy cheap property....or not having to pay tax on the Shin sales.

All these are a case of innocent until proven guilty, and so to talk about none of the charges against him being proven...well of course they will not be until they end up in a court of law. And we can expect some of these to be tested soon enough. There is a reason why a lot of shuffling is going on, because the deck will be stacked as per the Asset concealment case to ensure the verdict required.

Chownah -

While we of course can not be sure who Toxin was referring to I think that the point which is being missed here is that the meaning of this is that Toxin is indicating that there is one person he respects so much that if that person just quietly asked him to step down then he would step down. This quote is actually a show of great respect for the person Toxin is referring to because it shows that Toxin would do that person's bidding without question and without arguement and that Toxin would do nothing to oppose or to cause any extra effort after receiving the initial statement of what that person wishes Toxin to do. The fact that this great show of respect was twisted and spun until some had the gaul to suggest that it was an insult is a tribute to the darkness of the dark side of Thai politics and journalism.

And therein lies the rub. He stepped down. Then back up again. What he said and what he did were at complete odds to eachother.

I cannot talk about this extensively and none of us can - which is a point that Samak and Thaksin have used heavily to their advantage (by playing on the edge of the shadows with shadowy adverseries), but when I know personally that the words 'bah bpai laew' were used to describe Thaksin within the confines of a series of advisors when discussing this exact series of events, and the recommendation issued that every future conversation be taped with Thaksin, one really must question the sincerity of Thaksin is resigning. And then standing back up again.

The proposed appointment IIRC of a member of that family to the board of an effectively Singaporean company to ensure that the passage of ownership would be passed without problem was a pretty cynical manouvere. I can understand some of your posts but this idea that Thaksin is anything of a royalist is a pretty bold claim and one that even the most pro Thaksin supporters would most likely struggle to believe. According to story tellers, I mean academics like McCargo, then it would be pretty obvious that right now there are two forces colliding. To believe that Thaksin is in fact on the network mon***y side of the equation would be a major surprise.

BTW to call Thaksin PM is just crazy! We have a PM, the wonderful Samak who may indeed wing dtahm jao kong but he still holds the title of PM slash chef. let's show the man some respect.

[Jai Dee]

Area 1 Commander says military will hold onto orders of Army Chief in event of Conflict

Army Area 1 Commander Lieutenant General Prayut Janocha (ประยุทธ จันทร์โอชา) expressed confidence that the return of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not cause conflicts within the nation. He said that at present the nation’s situation looks positive.

The Army Commander-In-Chief has ordered all military personnel to work at their utmost to safeguard the stability of the nation if any events do arise from the return of Doctor Thaksin. The Army head stated that all soldiers must follow his commands closely in the case of any conflicts. The Army has coordinated with Metropol Police in Bangkok for rapid updates on the movements of the ex-premier.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 February 2008

[Jai Dee]

Metropol Police Commander confirms the return of ex-premier Thaksin to Thailand

Commander of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, Pol.Lt.Gen.Atsawin Kwanmuang (อัศวิน ขวัญเมือง), says he has been confirmed by the Thai Airways International that ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will travel back to Thailand.

However, the commander says he cannot reveal details of the former premier’s trip but was informed that people close to Mr Thaksin had traveled to Hong Kong where Mr Thaksin stays at the present.

Pol.Lt.Gen.Atsawin also says the ex-premier’s return to the country as a Thai citizen is normal and expresses his belief that there will be no chaos.

As for rumors on Mr Thaksin’s assassination, the commander says he has not been reported of the matter and believes that no one wants to create violence.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 February 2008

[Plus]

Thaksin went to that senator's house for dinner, Prasong was also there. A few months later, when Finland Plan was in the news, Prasong went public, though he certainly didn't have any recordings.

He heard it straight from the "devils' mouth". I don't think he just made it all up.

[younghusband]

Thaksin went to that senator's house for dinner, Prasong was also there. A few months later, when Finland Plan was in the news, Prasong went public, though he certainly didn't have any recordings.

He heard it straight from the "devils' mouth". I don't think he just made it all up.

Ah the Finland Plan.Now I understand where you're coming from although I'm slightly surprised(perhaps I shouldn't be) that you've fallen - or pretend to have fallen for- for this dishonest gobbledygook.

As a few perceptive observers pointed out at the time the Finland Plan lies bear a striking resemblance to the black propaganda being spread at the time of the 1976 massacres.Draw your own conclusions about what that implies.

My own view is that the purveyors of this nonsense together with the forces behind the illegal coup may in the end achieve the precise opposite of their intentions.History will reveal all in due course whether Farouk's prophecy will be fulfilled, though speaking personally I hope very much it won't.

[ando]

How many protests did the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) arrange against the military coup. Did they at least have one to try to see coup leaders taken to court.. I mean their purpose is to uphold democracy, right?

I think that todays Bangkok Post Editoral hit the nail on the head.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/27Feb2008_news14.php

"Outside the PAD, there are no important voices that oppose Mr Thaksin's return to Thailand. In fact, there are strong reasons to support his homecoming, beyond the fact he is a Thai citizen with the rights and duties of all Thais. The first is that it will show the strength of the nation, following elections that put Thailand back on the track to democracy. The second is the undoubted confidence that the courts are perfectly capable of handling each and all charges laid against the ex-premier already, and in the future. The rule of law is a thousand times better than the would-be PAD solution of street protests and intimidating crowds, which are likely to provoke more opposing throngs. The PAD's simplistic demand to keep Mr Thaksin out may indicate that the former pro-democracy group has last track of just what democracy entails.

At this moment, Thai voters and citizens have made a fresh start. The PAD's decision to go ''back to the future'' is not just stubbornly unimaginative, but troubling. The country is hoping and working for a solution to the divisions in the country. Citizens are demanding the government focus on the real problems, including the economy. Even if full reconciliation is not immediately achieved, Thais can work together to solve their problems.

The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process. It is not difficult to determine that the vast majority of the nation wants Mr Thaksin to face justice, and wants to see if the Samak Sundaravej administration will run an efficient, accountable government. All members of the PAD need to take a cooling-off period and give democracy and the law a chance."

[Ricardo]

Assassination fantasy? Thaksin himself claimed there's been numerous assassination attempts against him, didn't he?

...so....it is not a fantasy?

Mind you it was always an exageration or a figment of his imagination or some concocted event in order to boost his popularity with compassion with a fake bomb.

....or is it a fantasy?

Chownah

Answer ... it's a Thaksin-Truth !

[trader1]

How many protests did the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) arrange against the military coup. Did they at least have one to try to see coup leaders taken to court.. I mean their purpose is to uphold democracy, right?

I think that todays Bangkok Post Editoral hit the nail on the head.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/27Feb2008_news14.php

"Outside the PAD, there are no important voices that oppose Mr Thaksin's return to Thailand. In fact, there are strong reasons to support his homecoming, beyond the fact he is a Thai citizen with the rights and duties of all Thais. The first is that it will show the strength of the nation, following elections that put Thailand back on the track to democracy. The second is the undoubted confidence that the courts are perfectly capable of handling each and all charges laid against the ex-premier already, and in the future. The rule of law is a thousand times better than the would-be PAD solution of street protests and intimidating crowds, which are likely to provoke more opposing throngs. The PAD's simplistic demand to keep Mr Thaksin out may indicate that the former pro-democracy group has last track of just what democracy entails.

At this moment, Thai voters and citizens have made a fresh start. The PAD's decision to go ''back to the future'' is not just stubbornly unimaginative, but troubling. The country is hoping and working for a solution to the divisions in the country. Citizens are demanding the government focus on the real problems, including the economy. Even if full reconciliation is not immediately achieved, Thais can work together to solve their problems.

The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process. It is not difficult to determine that the vast majority of the nation wants Mr Thaksin to face justice, and wants to see if the Samak Sundaravej administration will run an efficient, accountable government. All members of the PAD need to take a cooling-off period and give democracy and the law a chance."

Amazing, an editorial I agree with.