Leo & Sadie

[Mossfinn]

Well, it's that time again, Sadie is on heat and Leo is rampant.

Some of you might remember last year when they jumped the gun and Sadie had to have an injection, leading to all sorts of consternation on my part, she was just too small and young at that time, now she is two and ready.

However, this is my first time and we welcome any advice.

Leo is very persistent at the moment and Sadie is being very accommodating, standing up for him and being very flirtatious, whilst Leo is going round with his nose glued to the necessary parts or trying to engage, now that is the problem, at the moment he can't seem to consummate the act, which is very frustrating for them both.

Is there something I should be doing to help the Star-crossed lovers into enacting their bond, or will nature eventually just take over and the act fulfilled, it is funny on occasion to see him start off in the right position, only to be wheeled right and be forced to go in from the side, like an over zealous rugby scrum and going in from the side is illegal in both Rugby and in the carnal proceedings of the Canine sports league.

Although I jest, any info or advice would be appreciated.

Moss

[Mossfinn]

Poor Leo is still having a hard time of it.

Moss

[sbk]

She may not actually be ready. The mating behavior does last for some time before the dogs actually get down to business.

Read this paper at msu http://whalonlab.msu.edu/Student_Webpages/...ion/Mating.html

[bina]

most bitches will stand when they are ready: if u touch her above her tail and she moves it sideways then she is ready, if not, he will want her but she wont want him... then after wards, she will search for him if she likes him... some bitches dont like their live in partners but prefer backyard guys.... *my boxer lived with a great male, but she forsook him, jumped over my head, ran out the door and did it with the ugliest small hairy thing on the kibbutz.... then we spayed her.)

parting makes the heart grow fonder as we found out with our stud buck goat. a day away and they wanted him and he wanted them so...

u can separate them for a day or so, see what colour her discharges are: light brown to almost nothing is the right time to breed (9th day to the twelfth day every other day)... it lets leo get his strength up w/o wasting time or energy chasing her. then, put them together in a closed area free of distractions, maybe w/o u also (some bitches try to protect their owner from the male for some reason).

sometimes leashing the bitch on a short leash works. sometimes u have to leash and hold her head and shoulders so the male can get up and on. once he's up and on, u can step back so he can work. some bitches flatten themselves out so u may have to lift her.

some bitches just wont do it with the one u want her to do it with.

make sure leo has time to drink (he might not eat too much though) and rest, before going to work.

once they are 'tied' leave them alone, make sure no other dogs can hassle them. they will break off by themselves. some bitches freak out and try to run away from the tie so need to leash her and hold so as not to cause injury to the male.

for the most part most dogs do it on their own w/o help but some breeds are more problematic.

i've been noticing that here the toy breeds seem to be using AI at our office (pekes, pugs etc).

write down the first day of breeding even w/o the tie. this will be your planned day of whelping.

bina

[Mossfinn]

She may not actually be ready. The mating behavior does last for some time before the dogs actually get down to business.

Read this paper at msu http://whalonlab.msu.edu/Student_Webpages/...ion/Mating.html

Thanks for that SBK, quite informative.

The average female dog begins her first heat cycle between 6 and 12 months of age.

She is now two, we wouldn't let them mate before that, apart from a mistake.

a swollen vulva and pink or red bloody discharge.

She is swollen and we have seen discharge, but I haven't seen much lately.

This stage is characterized by, the female, lifting her tail while rubbing her hind part against other dogs or objects.

She is certainly doing this and allowing Leo to mount her, but Leo keeps getting it wrong and they are both becoming frustrated and overly tired.

Moss

[bina]

so mossfinn

u are going to have to help him guide it in; u can reposition him if he will allow it, or have her tied up, or held on a short leash, and sort of nudge him in the proper direction. u might even have to 'lift and place' (use a wash cloth cause its slippery.... )

the person holding the bitch should be at face level with her from in front sort of giving her some balance, and then they or u can use a short leash or grab the collar of the dog and help position him. some dogs 'lose it' when interfered with. others keep on going....

separate them first.... then take the dog and bitch out on their short leashes and do the helping session. give him a few times to try. if it doesnt work, take them away to rest and try later. if a dog gets too frustrated , he may stop trying or lose his libido a bit.

if she's moving her tail, this is the time, and u may well lose the timing this time round. if this is your dog's first time, may try breeding him with a more willing and experienced (and maybe shorter) bitch? height shouldnt matter but sometimes it does to some dogs...

good luck

(try videoing or photoing to see what is happening, how is he aparoaching her , how is he mounting her, etc... )...

dont let him get tired out. take him a way and let him rest (dont feed to much before the studding)... usually we give a day break in between breedings to allow the male to rest and relax...

discharge should be minimal for when she will be ready: rusty coloured, not red...

bina

[Mossfinn]

most bitches will stand when they are ready: if u touch her above her tail and she moves it sideways then she is ready,

Yup, she is standing for him with tail raised to one side, but I haven't tried the tail touch yet.

some bitches dont like their live in partners but prefer backyard guys....

He will be most disappointed ..............

with a great male, but she forsook him, jumped over my head, ran out the door and did it with the ugliest small hairy thing on the kibbutz..

I remember this story

parting makes the heart grow fonder

u can separate them for a day or so, see what colour her discharges are: light brown to almost nothing is the right time to breed (9th day to the twelfth day every other day)... it lets leo get his strength up w/o wasting time or energy chasing her. then, put them together in a closed area free of distractions, maybe w/o u also (some bitches try to protect their owner from the male for some reason).

At the moment I give them a break and Sadie sleeps in our room.

sometimes leashing the bitch on a short leash works. sometimes u have to leash and hold her head and shoulders so the male can get up and on. once he's up and on, u can step back so he can work. some bitches flatten themselves out so u may have to lift her.

I don't think this is the problem, she is allowing him to mount her, he just doesn't seem to get it!

some bitches just wont do it with the one u want her to do it with.

make sure leo has time to drink (he might not eat too much though) and rest, before going to work.

once they are 'tied' leave them alone, make sure no other dogs can hassle them. they will break off by themselves. some bitches freak out and try to run away from the tie so need to leash her and hold so as not to cause injury to the male.

I haven't seen him drink much, but at least he is eating, I am giving then Cesar ( if you know it ) soft and succulent they really enjoy it. I know about the 'Tieing', after a very embarrassing phone call with a female receptionist last time, after we both broke down in gales of laughter, she had to get a male technician to explain I might have to lift Leo's leg over her body

i've been noticing that here the toy breeds seem to be using AI at our office (pekes, pugs etc).

write down the first day of breeding even w/o the tie. this will be your planned day of whelping.

I don't want to particularly use AI, Leo needs his fun and I will mark the first day, if it ever happens.

Still no luck today

Thanks for the responses

Moss

[bina]

if she moves her tail to one side, no need to touch and try, she's willing and able...

try to reposition him before he ejaculates; maybe u can help him place himself: i did this or tried to for an alpaca; but he was uncooperative to say the least... horses u just use a towel, grab and help him in, then he does the work... (i actually had old photos of me doing that!!!)

u just know that she's gonna get preggers from some thai ridgeback (thaiuhuahua/chuahuaridgeback- a new hybrid breed)...

take him for some practice with a different bitch... practice makes perfect in studs..

i cant believe u remember that story about my bitch, i've been on this forum waaaaaaaay tooo long...........im starting to repeat myself.......old age setting in....

bina

[Mossfinn]

i cant believe u remember that story about my bitch, i've been on this forum waaaaaaaay tooo long...........im starting to repeat myself.......old age setting in....

bina

I remember it only because you said it on another Leo and Sadie thread, but it made me chuckle anyway,

just another question, I have tried positioning him but she runs away and when he gets into position and starts his dance she then squeals and jumps away, is she in pain, not quite ready yet?

She goes through stages of rubbing herself against him and the tail is either way to the side or up high or she fights him off, I don't know about Leo but I am confused.

What does this tell you, is she past her time, still in it, or is the main time still to come?

Thanks for the replies, I can't believe they did it last time when we didn't want them to and now we want them to, he isn't up to the job.

Moss

[Patsycat]

Poor Leo!! You've probably given the poor wee thing a complex with the pointing and laughing!!!

[bina]

could still be early for her; this is the courtship phase, maybe ... w/o seeing vulva and discharge colour and counting from the start of the heat, its hard to knwo whats up (ha ha)...

usuallly its the 9-12 days from the beginning of the heat... there is a stage where she wants but not really (when yes really means no) and then there is a stage when she really means yes... it sounds possibly like she is still a day or so from the yes means yes stage...

waiting for photos....

i actaully have photos of my boxer with her stud... but not on digital... we made a book album for the stud owner, and added the pup photos later. he actaully didnt want a fee or a pup but wanted his stud to get the experience (male ego thing)..

foofoo is now looking for a willing partner; even if its shi tzu or maltese; havent found any lhasas in nearby area...

[Mossfinn]

Poor Leo!! You've probably given the poor wee thing a complex with the pointing and laughing!!!

How did you know!

waiting for photos....

,

its hard to knwo whats up (ha ha)...

A double, double entendre

I will get photos tonight.

Cheers

Moss

[Mossfinn]

waiting for photos....

Sadie is actually fighting tooth and nail now, whenever we leave them together, and with our inexperienced eyes she is passed the mating time.................. any confirmation thoughts Bina?

Moss