How Are You Getting Your Fish Oils?

[Jingthing]

OK, I have been hearing recent media messages that taking fish oil supplements is not effective in preventing heart disease. I think they mean any supplements, good ones or bad ones. Of course, alot of the commercial ones are not high quality, but that isn't the issue. The reports I am hearing say any fish oil supplements are a waste of money.

So the current recommendation seems to be to eat fresh salmon, fresh tuna, or fresh mackerel at least 2 times a week, about a 6 oz. portion. Now, this sounds easy, but to me not so easy. I really don't feel like eating this kind of fish that often and don't really know how to cook these fish except for simple grilling.

How are you getting your fresh fatty fish in Thailand? Any cooking variety tips you can share for these fish? I am slightly bummed because I recently bought a fresh supply of the supplements which I now think are a waste of money and calories.

[Shuddee]

OK, I have been hearing recent media messages that taking fish oil supplements is not effective in preventing heart disease. I think they mean any supplements, good ones or bad ones. Of course, alot of the commercial ones are not high quality, but that isn't the issue. The reports I am hearing say any fish oil supplements are a waste of money.

I use fish oil supplements. I think they work great. I was reading on an official FDA website from the U.S. government that fish oils were grade A to B in aiding heart health. This was on a standard A to E scale (like what schools grade). I can recall, though I didn't bookmark it, that fish oil supplements help keep the heart healthy and prevent irregular heartbeat.

So the current recommendation seems to be to eat fresh salmon, fresh tuna, or fresh mackerel at least 2 times a week, about a 6 oz. portion. Now, this sounds easy, but to me not so easy. I really don't feel like eating this kind of fish that often and don't really know how to cook these fish except for simple grilling.

How are you getting your fresh fatty fish in Thailand? Any cooking variety tips you can share for these fish? I am slightly bummed because I recently bought a fresh supply of the supplements which I now think are a waste of money and calories.

This is good advice, in my opinion. I try to eat as much fish (and chicken) as I can...and try to stay away from the pork. I think it's all this pork eating that causes so many Thais I know to get cancer. Too much pork and beef just is not good for the body in general. However, if you have fish that you're eating that has high mercury content (anybody know research on mercury content on fish in Thailand, please share) that can be dangerous too.

Take the supplements. You might notice a difference, but you definitely won't feel it. Check out the FDA website and do a search on fish oils.

[Tammi]

OK, I have been hearing recent media messages that taking fish oil supplements is not effective in preventing heart disease. I think they mean any supplements, good ones or bad ones. Of course, alot of the commercial ones are not high quality, but that isn't the issue. The reports I am hearing say any fish oil supplements are a waste of money.

So the current recommendation seems to be to eat fresh salmon, fresh tuna, or fresh mackerel at least 2 times a week, about a 6 oz. portion. Now, this sounds easy, but to me not so easy. I really don't feel like eating this kind of fish that often and don't really know how to cook these fish except for simple grilling.

How are you getting your fresh fatty fish in Thailand? Any cooking variety tips you can share for these fish? I am slightly bummed because I recently bought a fresh supply of the supplements which I now think are a waste of money and calories.

Easiest way to cook fish is to microwave it. Put a salmon steak (or any fish steak) on a plate, add a little water, cover with another plate, microwave for 2 minutes on high, take it out and poke the steak near the bone and if still raw microwave for another minute. That should do it. For jacket potato, scrub a potato, pierce several times with a fork, microwave for 3 minutes, test for doneness, if not done turn potato over and microwave minute by minute until done, wrap in tinfoil. Microwave your other veg, carrots, peas, broccoli, 30 secs by 30 secs till nice and crisp and not soggy.

If you bought supplements at Fascino or are well known at other pharmacy and have not opened, take the supplements back (if you really are so bummed), and ask for them to exchange for something else you use.

[Shuddee]

Easiest way to cook fish is to microwave it. Put a salmon steak (or any fish steak) on a plate, add a little water, cover with another plate, microwave for 2 minutes on high, take it out and poke the steak near the bone and if still raw microwave for another minute. That should do it. For jacket potato, scrub a potato, pierce several times with a fork, microwave for 3 minutes, test for doneness, if not done turn potato over and microwave minute by minute until done, wrap in tinfoil. Microwave your other veg, carrots, peas, broccoli, 30 secs by 30 secs till nice and crisp and not soggy.

If you bought supplements at Fascino or are well known at other pharmacy and have not opened, take the supplements back (if you really are so bummed), and ask for them to exchange for something else you use.

I wouldn't trust buying supplements from any pharmacy on non-brand name store here in Thailand. I bought a bottle of Squibb B-Complex vitamins once from a pharmacy in a province. Supposedly they came from the U.S. and they had a real cheap price (unbelieveably cheap). I had a bad reaction to them too. Threw 'em in the garbage can along with the other supplement bottle I bought at the same pharmacy.

I would highly recommend GNC. They have been around for years. That's General Nutrition Center. Top notch supplements. These are the kinds of supplements that even your grandparents would trust.

[peanut]

If the supplements come from US that's actually a good reason NOT to buy them. I don't know about GNC, maybe since they're such a big chain they take good care of their quality, but in the USA supplements are NOT regulated - even many Americans don't know that. Unlike drug companies, supplement companies can sell anything WITHOUT having to prove that their product works. As long as they don't make any obviously false statements, they have no constraints.

I don't know anything about Thai products, but I guess I wouldn't trust those either. Better go for a European product, in Europe they have strict regulations regarding supplements.

And I'm not saying that there aren't any good American products out there, I'm just saying it's a gamble, you can never be sure what you're gonna get. I only know about this because I've recently read an interesting article on this very topic in "Best American Science Writing". I was really surprised...

As for the fish... considering my limited talents at cooking, I just throw a can of tuna in my salad. Easy!

[Captain Chaos]

I've bought a few things from GNC here in Singapore - seems OK and they have outlets all over the place down here.

On the fatty fish - how about going to a Jap restaurant a couple of times a week for some sashimi / sushi (or they usually do some rather nice grilled fish steaks too)? I happen to be very partial to raw fish Jap-style so if that will get the job done, it's a 'win win' scenario for me ...

[Wrong Turn]

OK, I have been hearing recent media messages that taking fish oil supplements is not effective in preventing heart disease. I think they mean any supplements, good ones or bad ones. Of course, alot of the commercial ones are not high quality, but that isn't the issue. The reports I am hearing say any fish oil supplements are a waste of money.

I've been taking Fish Oil supplements for a couple of years to get more Omega 6 and 3.

Can you cite this source?

TIA.

[Naam]

millions of people live a healthy life without "their" fish oil because they never ate or even saw a fish in their lives. personally i eat a lot of fish and seafood but i never cared a sh*t how much my intake of "my" fishoil is

[sabaijai]

Organic, cold-pressed flaxseed oil is available from a dealer in Chiang Mai. As good a source of omega-3 and omega-6 as fish oil.

[Jingthing]

As for the fish... considering my limited talents at cooking, I just throw a can of tuna in my salad. Easy!

Canned tuna is useless for this purpose.

millions of people live a healthy life without "their" fish oil because they never ate or even saw a fish in their lives. personally i eat a lot of fish and seafood but i never cared a sh*t how much my intake of "my" fishoil is

The idea is to do all we can to prevent heart disease. Studies show fish oil helps, so why not?

I've been taking Fish Oil supplements for a couple of years to get more Omega 6 and 3.

Can you cite this source?

Yes and no, and I am sure you will discount this when I tell you where I heard this. There was recently a report on Fox News from one of their science reporters saying that more than one definitive and RECENT studies have shown that fish oil supplements do not prevent heart disease, but that eating fresh fatty fish twice a week does. She did not reference the articles. I cannout find the articles on the net. You may find articles saying the opposite, but they are not that recent. Also, there are other considerations. There is a difference for people taking fish oil who have already had heart disease vs. people trying to prevent it. Also, there seems to be a consensus that "non-pharmaceutical" grade fish oil supplements are not nearly as good as pharmaceutical grade, though the report did not indicate that even the high grade stuff is effective in prevention vs. eating fresh fish. I have been taking the low grade stuff available at Watsons here in Thailand. I doubt it is very good even if the good stuff works, so I do plan on switching to eating the fresh fish.

There are other cases in nutrition prevention where the supplements are worthless while the fresh source is valuable, so as you can tell, even though this is from Fox, I take it seriously.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Jingthing

[Wrong Turn]

....There was recently a report on Fox News from one of their science reporters saying that more than one definitive and RECENT studies have shown that fish oil supplements do not prevent heart disease, but that eating fresh fatty fish twice a week does. She did not reference the articles. I cannout find the articles on the net. You may find articles saying the opposite, but they are not that recent. Also, there are other considerations. There is a difference for people taking fish oil who have already had heart disease vs. people trying to prevent it. Also, there seems to be a consensus that "non-pharmaceutical" grade fish oil supplements are not nearly as good as pharmaceutical grade, though the report did not indicate that even the high grade stuff is effective in prevention vs. eating fresh fish. I have been taking the low grade stuff available at Watsons here in Thailand. I doubt it is very good even if the good stuff works, so I do plan on switching to eating the fresh fish.

There are other cases in nutrition prevention where the supplements are worthless while the fresh source is valuable.....

Thanks, Jingthing.

I agree: natural is almost always better than supplement. And yes, many supplements are gimmicks to make money.

I take Fish Oil from the Kirkland Brand (with the USP stamp) 3x per day. It's a cheap insurance method for me. I buy them in the US and take them to Asia and put them in the fridge.

I also eat 1 can of Tuna with Brine 3x per week.

Hopefully, I'm getting enough fish oil with the Omega 3s and Omega 6s.

I also think it's OK for eat 1 can of tuna per day. The mercury in regular tuna isn't that high, from what I've read. Although I've seen some disagreement on the about of tuna people should eat.

Question:

What is the definition of "having heart disease?"

Is it partial or complete blockage of an artery? Enlarged heart?

[Jingthing]

Question:

What is the definition of "having heart disease?"

Is it partial or complete blockage of an artery? Enlarged heart?

I think for the purposes of the studies done on this, it means a person who has an actual event, like a heart attack. The stuff I have found on the net is mostly about the effectiveness of fish oil supplements for people who have had events already.

OK, I had read before that canned tuna and salmon were no good for fish oils, but this blurb from the American heart assoc. indicates they are OK as long as packed in WATER:

Leaf says that fresh or frozen fish are the best choices but canned tuna can be used if it is packed in water. “Tuna packed in oil is not a good choice because the extra oil will extract the beneficial n-3 oil from the fish,” he says.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Jingthing

[lilBob]

Question:

What is the definition of "having heart disease?"

Is it partial or complete blockage of an artery? Enlarged heart?

I think for the purposes of the studies done on this, it means a person who has an actual event, like a heart attack. The stuff I have found on the net is mostly about the effectiveness of fish oil supplements for people who have had events already.

OK, I had read before that canned tuna and salmon were no good for fish oils, but this blurb from the American heart assoc. indicates they are OK as long as packed in WATER:

Leaf says that fresh or frozen fish are the best choices but canned tuna can be used if it is packed in water. “Tuna packed in oil is not a good choice because the extra oil will extract the beneficial n-3 oil from the fish,” he says.

I recently had a minor stroke,cause by a blocked artery in my neck and the Doctors recommended that I continue with taking fish oil tablets. Fish Oil has other reputed benefits .

Ive benn taking fish oil for a couple of years and eat canned tuna/salmon for the same time.

Ieat it with a salad or in a sandwich.

BTW tests showed my heart healthy, but I have to take coholesterol tablets daily and have had to reduce my weight.

Eating the fish reduces my intake of red meat, I have to watch my diet and now walk 7 ks per day and in the last 6 mths since the stroke I've dropped 15 kilos thats approx. 18% of my body weight.

The heart is a muscle and like all muscles needs to be exercised also for weight control I have dropped sugary soft drinks. It took a bit of getting used to but Coke Zero mixes well with Jack Daniels .

Ahealthy heart requres more than tablets we should all look after ourselves probably better than we do I had my warning and am trying although I still have my moments

By the way everyone living in thailand or visiting should have health insurance any major accident or illness and you are in deep sh-t without it

I'll get of my soapbox now

[peanut]

Canned tuna is useless for this purpose.

What's wrong with the tuna???

[Wrong Turn]

Canned tuna is useless for this purpose.

What's wrong with the tuna???

Peanut,

Canned Tune in Brine/water is good. It contains the fish oils.

It's only the Tuna that is canned in oil that does not have the fish oil because the "canned oil" in tune canned in oil extracts the fish oils.

Canned tuna is a cheap, quick way, to get the good fish oils.

[peanut]

Thanks Wrong Turn. Yeah, I use the water kind, for calorie reasons initially. Glad to know they're not useless 'cos I have about 30 stacked in my cupboard!

[Tolley]

Been taking fish oil supplements for many years .

As a result my triclycerides are very low which is supposed to be good for preventing heart attacks.

It is also good for arthritic conditions.

I take the Blackmores brand which is available in Thailand.

[CTM]

Organic, cold-pressed flaxseed oil is available from a dealer in Chiang Mai. As good a source of omega-3 and omega-6 as fish oil.

That is one disorganized site. Way too "busy" and hard to follow. Where exactly is the flax for sale? The link I clicked sent me to a US based sales site. Not exactly practical for people in Thailand.

I have heard Dr Eric Serrano mention flax is not good for people over about 35. Can't remember why. Just food for thought.

GNC is a mid level company on the quality scale at best. I've not seen any European brands for sale. Not seen any of the more recommended US brands and the prices in Thailand sure are painful for even questionable quality.

Lots of salmon bought in stores has had the fish oil removed to make supplements and doesn't contain the EFAs to a great degree anymore. Farm raised salmon sucks as a source of EFAs as does grain finished beef.

Omega 3s are (what most people on modern supermarket diets are short on) are also in things like walnuts (calorie dense so not great for people trying to lose fat) and pumpkin seeds.

EFAs are one of the few supplements with any substantial research showing true benefits. Most research was done with 3 grams a day or more of actual EFAs. That's 10 caps per day of the typical fish oil brand.

[CTM]

millions of people live a healthy life without "their" fish oil because they never ate or even saw a fish in their lives. personally i eat a lot of fish and seafood but i never cared a sh*t how much my intake of "my" fishoil is

It is not about fish oil per se but proper essential fatty acid balance. Modern corporation produced food is lower in nutritional value every year. They are called "essential" because the body cannot produce them and MUST be gotten from diet. If the typical beef, fish and such found in the supermarkets doesn't contain EFAs anymore in proper balance, where do people get them except supplementation? So stop giving advice when you have no clue what you are talking about.

[ZZZ]

Forget about canned, or fresh, tuna and salmon. These are on the top of the food chain and have high concentrations of mercury and other heavy metals. Salmon is also usually farmed and also have other pesticides and antibiotics in them.

Your best bet is canned sardines, they have as much or more of the good stuff in them as tuna and salmon and very little of the bad stuff.

[Naam]

millions of people live a healthy life without "their" fish oil because they never ate or even saw a fish in their lives. personally i eat a lot of fish and seafood but i never cared a sh*t how much my intake of "my" fishoil is

It is not about fish oil per se but proper essential fatty acid balance. Modern corporation produced food is lower in nutritional value every year. They are called "essential" because the body cannot produce them and MUST be gotten from diet. If the typical beef, fish and such found in the supermarkets doesn't contain EFAs anymore in proper balance, where do people get them except supplementation? So stop giving advice when you have no clue what you are talking about.

stating a fact is not giving advice! what you submit is unfounded bla-bla Honourable Sir. quite a number of people on this planet do not eat food produced by "modern" corporations. there is no such thing that "MUST" be gotten from any diet to survive. that's my claim. now go ahead, prove the contrary and submit your "clues".

[Jingthing]

Naam, we all do what we can with the information we have.

[Wrong Turn]

Forget about canned, or fresh, tuna and salmon. These are on the top of the food chain and have high concentrations of mercury and other heavy metals.

I want to start eating 1 can of Tuna with water/brine per day.

Is this OK? I can a day?

I get conflicting info on how much canned tuna we can eat.

[ZZZ]

Forget about canned, or fresh, tuna and salmon. These are on the top of the food chain and have high concentrations of mercury and other heavy metals.

I want to start eating 1 can of Tuna with water/brine per day.

Is this OK? I can a day?

I get conflicting info on how much canned tuna we can eat.

Most advisers say that you should not eat more than 1 can (6oz) of tuna per week, many say you should not eat any. The mercury content vary from can to can and often they find cans with more than twice the allowed amount of mercury.

Sardines on the other hand is on the list of fish with the least amount of mercury and gives you the same nutrition as tuna or salmon.

[Wrong Turn]

Forget about canned, or fresh, tuna and salmon. These are on the top of the food chain and have high concentrations of mercury and other heavy metals.

I want to start eating 1 can of Tuna with water/brine per day.

Is this OK? I can a day?

I get conflicting info on how much canned tuna we can eat.

Most advisers say that you should not eat more than 1 can (6oz) of tuna per week, many say you should not eat any. The mercury content vary from can to can and often they find cans with more than twice the allowed amount of mercury.

Sardines on the other hand is on the list of fish with the least amount of mercury and gives you the same nutrition as tuna or salmon.

Thanks, Z.

I assume mercury stay in our bodies, like it does the tuna fish.

[desi]

So the current recommendation seems to be to eat fresh salmon, fresh tuna, or fresh mackerel at least 2 times a week, about a 6 oz. portion. Now, this sounds easy, but to me not so easy. I really don't feel like eating this kind of fish that often and don't really know how to cook these fish except for simple grilling.

How are you getting your fresh fatty fish in Thailand? Any cooking variety tips you can share for these fish? I am slightly bummed because I recently bought a fresh supply of the supplements which I now think are a waste of money and calories.

Cooking tips:

Court bullion:

One of the healthiest ways I know to cook fish is via court bullion. Put cut up carrots, celery and onions into a pot of boiling filtered water (you can also add garlic, lemon grass, limes, etc). Cook for about 15 minutes. Turn off heat. Lay fish in pot. Take out when cooked. It should cook without added heat. If it doesn't, then raise the heat without boiling. This meal gives a natural, fresh flavour to your fish.

Oven:

Buy a steam oven. You can cook as you would a grill. And if you like, salt and pepper, then stuff with various flavours - onions, garlic, lemon grass, etc, wrap in foil. For temperature, follow directions on the front of the door. This oven claims to cook healthy as it steams fat away from meats (chicken, beef, etc). It also cuts down on heating your abode.

I have Tefal Vapour Steam Oven, bought here in Bangkok. It's so easy to use, I've yet to turn on my built in oven. Once a week I fire it up for roast chicken. Easy to use, easy to clean. Fits on a shelf.

Fish (all):

I eat smoked mackerel (on its own or over crackers), salmon (in court bullion), canned tuna (sandwiches or stuffed into tomatoes), canned sardines, sea bass, red snapper, tilapia ... except for the smoked and canned, all go into a healthy court bullion.

I have two shelves full off cook books, but I don't bother with them unless it's an old fav. With all the cooking blogs and websites out there these days, there is no need to buy cook books. Just google ingredients.

Some sites are set up to create menus from what you have available in your kitchen (well, as long as you start out with more than a case of Singha and a couple of limes).

Edited March 8, 2008 by desi

[Naam]

Naam, we all do what we can with the information we have.

there's nothing wrong with that JT. what i was initially -in my [meanwhile well known and not so] humble and subtle way- referring to was "your" fish oils. those who do not understand my "reasoning" or are not able to understand simple english from a non-native english speaker should stick to facts instead of presenting rebuttals with irrelevant attacks such as "you have no clue / don't give any advice".

PEACE, lots of fish oil and good health for you Jingthing!

[peanut]

Actually mercury does not stay in our bodies, but it takes time and work for the body to get rid of it. That's why it's recommended to have fish about twice a week. Pregnant women should stop eating lots of fish about six months before getting pregnant, I can't remember where I read that.

As for the one can of tuna a day, that's probably too much. You're safer with every now and again and alternate with other sources of protein - variety is best.

The sardines are a good idea, except they are not as yummy and they usually come whole - I hate seeing the eyes of what I'm eating

[CTM]

millions of people live a healthy life without "their" fish oil because they never ate or even saw a fish in their lives. personally i eat a lot of fish and seafood but i never cared a sh*t how much my intake of "my" fishoil is

It is not about fish oil per se but proper essential fatty acid balance. Modern corporation produced food is lower in nutritional value every year. They are called "essential" because the body cannot produce them and MUST be gotten from diet. If the typical beef, fish and such found in the supermarkets doesn't contain EFAs anymore in proper balance, where do people get them except supplementation? So stop giving advice when you have no clue what you are talking about.

stating a fact is not giving advice! what you submit is unfounded bla-bla Honourable Sir. quite a number of people on this planet do not eat food produced by "modern" corporations. there is no such thing that "MUST" be gotten from any diet to survive. that's my claim. now go ahead, prove the contrary and submit your "clues".

People on traditional diets don’t have the same rates of obesity and nutrient deficiencies. You think you’re showing I am wrong but your actually agreeing to a degree. I’ll put it down as a communication problem since you’re not good with English.

By your logic a diet consisting of nothing but cigarettes, soda, and potato chips is as good as any other since no one will immediately die from it. Won’t die immediately, good, and optimal are not the same. Get it? Yes, you are clueless when it comes to nutrition. No, I won’t argue point for point with you because it is like clapping with one hand.

Thanks for playing on the Internet boards where everyone is an expert on everything.

[IMA_FARANG]

So the current recommendation seems to be to eat fresh salmon, fresh tuna, or fresh mackerel at least 2 times a week, about a 6 oz. portion. Now, this sounds easy, but to me not so easy. I really don't feel like eating this kind of fish that often and don't really know how to cook these fish except for simple grilling.

How are you getting your fresh fatty fish in Thailand? Any cooking variety tips you can share for these fish? I am slightly bummed because I recently bought a fresh supply of the supplements which I now think are a waste of money and calories.

Cooking tips:

Court bullion:

One of the healthiest ways I know to cook fish is via court bullion. Put cut up carrots, celery and onions into a pot of boiling filtered water (you can also add garlic, lemon grass, limes, etc). Cook for about 15 minutes. Turn off heat. Lay fish in pot. Take out when cooked. It should cook without added heat. If it doesn't, then raise the heat without boiling. This meal gives a natural, fresh flavour to your fish.

Oven:

Buy a steam oven. You can cook as you would a grill. And if you like, salt and pepper, then stuff with various flavours - onions, garlic, lemon grass, etc, wrap in foil. For temperature, follow directions on the front of the door. This oven claims to cook healthy as it steams fat away from meats (chicken, beef, etc). It also cuts down on heating your abode.

I have Tefal Vapour Steam Oven, bought here in Bangkok. It's so easy to use, I've yet to turn on my built in oven. Once a week I fire it up for roast chicken. Easy to use, easy to clean. Fits on a shelf.

Fish (all):

I eat smoked mackerel (on its own or over crackers), salmon (in court bullion), canned tuna (sandwiches or stuffed into tomatoes), canned sardines, sea bass, red snapper, tilapia ... except for the smoked and canned, all go into a healthy court bullion.

I have two shelves full off cook books, but I don't bother with them unless it's an old fav. With all the cooking blogs and websites out there these days, there is no need to buy cook books. Just google ingredients.

Some sites are set up to create menus from what you have available in your kitchen (well, as long as you start out with more than a case of Singha and a couple of limes).

Additionally.....in a regular oven or even a toaster oven....you can cook small fish (exactly how big depends on what fits into the oven) by wrapping the fish in tinfoil or aluminium foil. You roast the fish, the tinfoil around the fish keeps the steam in the package, and the fish steams itself in its foil package. Try putting some vegatables....carrots, onions, or potato in with the fish. You can also place some lemon slices, orange slices, or limes in the tinfoil with the fish. The juice from the citrus gives the fish a slightly different flavor. Put a little water in and and some garlic, peppers, or ginger. Ginger will give you a Ginger Steamed Fish (like you find in Chinese restaurants). The list is only limited by your imagination and what tastes good to you.

For the person who said something about Sardines....large size Sardines can be grilled...use a bed of aluminium foil on the grill so if they break up while cooking the pieces will stay in the aluminium foil.