Moving Koh Samui,advice Needed.

[MR.D.HATFIELD]

Hi everybody,

We are a couple in our mid thirties with no children who are moving to Koh Samui at christmas 2005. We are coming over in june 2005 for one month to view properties and speak to lawyers. Can anybody recommend a good estate agent and lawyer. Is it better to buy or to rent?

We will be looking to open a small bar, nothing to lively just somewhere people can chill out.

What is the best visa run?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

I apologies for the capital letters but it was my first attempt. Cut me some slack please.

[MR.D.HATFIELD]

Apoligies for the capitals. It was first attempt.

Cut me some slack, please.

[IamMaiC]

THIS IS SHOUTING!!!!! i never knew, blimey

[Khun Jean]

No serious replies sofar. I will do my best.

You're first question: is it better to buy or rent?

In my opinion it is best to build, 2nd to rent, 3rd to buy.

Practical problem is you can't own land. You need a workaround, like a long term lease or setup company with a lot of money. Ask the experts. There 2 here on board. Sunbelt and Indo-Siam.

Buying property is expensive and you don't know what kind o materials are used. Maybe it will fall apart in a few years. If you find something be sure you know who build it so you can compare it with previosly build houses. But no guarantees here.

Renting on the other hand is cheap. You'll have a nice house starting from 6-7000 baht a month for the basic house with 2 bedrooms. Go into then 10-15000 range and you will have a location close to the beach. More upwards 20-25000 you have a house in a small community with pool and security. Higher anything you want.

Building will give you the freedom of designing your own house and buying the right plot of land on a good location. Prices will be about half of what you see for sale. This gives you a nice house and a oppertunity to sell it later with a profit.

Finding a good real estate agent is difficult. The ones i met added 20-50% to the prices so i didn't use them. (This was for finding a place to rent. NOT to buy).

Driving around and visiting the owners myself gave me the best price. (After my wife called them on the phone and they expected a thai person to rent it. )

Opening a bar is easy. There always many for sale from people who have no mood anymore (read loose money). If you are able to be at the premisies ALL the time and are a good host then you have a good chance because in my opinion a nice bar with atmosphere will always have customers.

But of course you need a workpermit for that. Again ask the experts.

It helps when your wife is thai. Makes it a little easier.

Best visarun is Singapore by plane or cheaper to surat thani then to ranong.

Welcome to Samui.

[katyb]

Mr Hatfield,

We visited a Uk Estate Agent on Samui last year, Stuart (sorry can't remember his surname) at Samui Land and Property, based in Lamai.

Samui Land and Property

We didn't buy in the end as we wanted to take our time, so I can't tell you what it would be like to enter a transaction with him. But what I can say is that he was an amiable bloke, with many years experience in UK with Connells who are one of UKs biggest estate agents. He and his wife were very helpful and not at all pushy. So why not sound him out by email. (see website).

It was a surreal moment when riding through Lamai for the first time, passing the old thai shops, down a dusty road, street vendors, coconut trees...........and there from nowhere appeared an unmistakeably British estate agents shop window! Very incongruous given it's setting, but very smart. We had to stop and go in just to confirm that the bloke inside was English - and sure enough, he was.

I can't comment on the 20 - 50% increase for renting, but I'm sure it must be somewhere in that region - they have to make a living.

Let us know where your bar is when you find it.

Good luck.

Kate

[simey]

Apoligies for the capitals. It was first attempt.

Cut me some slack, please.

No offence was meant, I was just first to point it out. Made some one laugh anyway.

To live on the island is a big jump and the more time you spend looking around and getting a feel for the place the less chance you stand of making a mistake. For example, there are several beachfront groups of houses where you can pick up a thai style house almost on the beach for 8 mil. Seems a good deal until you realise that the houses surrounding you are owned by investors who rent them out, so you get different neighbours week to week who care a lot less about their surroundings than you do.

There is a lot of land for sale right now, but you need to be careful with the type of land title you get and also watch for things like access, electricity etc.

Building a house is a good idea, there are a couple of good architects on the island. However I would recommend that you are present while the thing is being built as thais sometimes take a route that is less to the plan and more to the way they think it should be.

My advice would be to rent a small property and then start the networking - you will get much more info from freinds you make than from people who (nice as they may be) are still trying to make a living.

In case you wondered I speak from experience, I own a house in the hills in the Santi Thani development that I designed and had built from scratch, completed 2 years ago.

[MR.D.HATFIELD]

Thanks very much for all the advice. Please keep it coming.

Kate, was the guy's name Stuart Evans.

Can't wait to get to samui. Severely stressed out at work everyday!!!!!

[Mister Fixit]

Looks like you and I are arriving about the same time. Perhaps we'll meet when looking at the same properties!

[nogutsnoapplepie]

Look out for the Island Mafia is all I can add.

[Mister Fixit]

I've heard of the Koh Pha Hgan mafia. What's the story on the Samui lot?

[stevehaigh]

I've heard of the Koh Pha Hgan mafia. What's the story on the Samui lot?

what Ko Phangan mafia?

[Mister Fixit]

The one I was told about!

I mentioned to a pal that I might be interested in living on Koh Pha Ngan and he said it was still ruled by the Thai mafia - better to live on KS where it was not so bad.

[Ajarn]

I heard many years ago that, because of a lack of any goverment presence, the 'Puu Yai Baan' also took on the role of Judge and Jury, and sometimes executioner.. the Final Authority. They settled all disputes, down to inter-family squabbles...

In later years, Samui was said to be controlled by 5 families. One was (likely still is) the major rice distrubuter on samui. Another family head is now a C-8 government official in Nathon and he owns a Bungalow in Baan Tai . Another family head was the Chinese 'Sia Yai' of the area, and quite the Wheeler-dealer in the coconut business on Samui. Not sure about the other two, having never met them or heard anything about them except that they had bungalows.

Quite an interesting place under the covers, from what I remember many years ago

[sbk]

Sorry boys, I have lived on Koh Phangan for 15 years and there is no "mafia". Not even sure who your friend could be talking about. Many people get the wrong idea about family connections and assume that the traditional way of getting things done (ie it's not how much money you have but who you know) is 'mafia'. Couldn't be wronger. As for the local 'pu yai' being judge, jury and executioner I can't even imagine who that could be. The real 'judge jury and executioners' are local people who don't like rapists and killers and don't think the police will do anything about them. And that sort of thing hasn't happened here for quite a few years.

[Ajarn]

'Puu Yai Baan', is what I said, and Phangnan has at least one, too. As I also mentioned, this was long ago. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough. We're talking at least 40 years ago, as I have heard. But, this was the system for a LONG time, to be sure. It's not that much different in some parts of the Kingdom, even now...

[dingfishingtours]

I think when posters refer to the "Samui mafia" they aren't thinking of people with olive skin,dodgy mustaches,and italian accents.To suggest that the islands are free of dark influences is foolhardy in the extreme.Being aware of the situation and behaving accordingly is safer than living in a daydream.

Not in Samui but imagine if you will,opening a girlie bar in the center of Patpong.Refusing to pay protection money as you dont believe in the"mafia"'s existance would result in a fast and unpleasant learning lesson about gangsters.

I'd say that to work together with local people instead of competing against them is the best road to happiness.I have had many an occasion to be very thankful to my native workmates in a wide range of situations.

[katyb]

Kate, was the guy's name Stuart Evans.

Yes, Stuart Evans.

[snoophound]

Just came back from a week on samui

Place seems to be Booming.

A lot of falangs who got in early have made a lot of money in property.

What does the panel think on whether this boom will continue.

after all its a very small island.

[simey]

Good news for me, I bought my land in 1999 and built the house completion 2002, so any news of property going up is great.

I'm sure that there is a limit, however the island is still cheap compared to similar properties in Spain for example, and as flights get cheaper and faster it becomes easier to visit. I think that there is still growth in Samui, plans for a marina and second airport will help tourism and the value of our investments. It is also appearing a lot more in newspapers/tv etc. Last year the Sunday Times had a section on people buying abroad that featured a couples house on Samui, we had the 'Place in the Sun' special shown on satellite just recently where Gayle Porter was shown around some properties with a view to buying, Chaweng beach was put in the top 10 in some recent yahoo survey.

Samui will continue to grow until it achieves Phuket level of notoriety I think, and then stabilise.