Uk Old Age Pension Paid In Thailand

[rimbung]

I understand that a UK passport holder married to a Thai wife will get the married pension allowance while living in the UK but this is not paid once the couple take up residence in Thailand.

However I have heard stories that a Thai wife (non UK passport) who has never entered the UK still qualifies for a dependant allowance.

What are the facts on UK pensioners married to Thai's.

Will a UK pensioner living in Thailand still get the married allowance for a non pension age wife who only has ILTR?

[Maizefarmer]

My understanding is if the marriage is a "formal" (meaning a UK legally recognisd marrige) you will get your married persons pension in Thailand but what you loose out on is the yearly rises/increases.

As for you wife getting her own UK pension or other benefits - no, against the circumstances as you have described them, I do not believe she qualifies for any individual UK state benefits, at least while here in Thailand.

Someone correct me if I am wrong please.

[taxexile]

However I have heard stories that a Thai wife (non UK passport) who has never entered the UK still qualifies for a dependant allowance.

shes never set foot in the uk !!!

why dont you try and get her the winter heating fuel allowance too , and whilst you're at it , maybe a bus pass and some meals on wheels and one of those little shopping trolleys with wheels that the oldies over there get , i'm sure the british taxpayer would be only too happy to fund it all for you.

thailand is already full to bursting with brits on the fiddle , now it seems we've got scrounging pensioners as well.

[Lite Beer]

My understanding is if the marriage is a "formal" (meaning a UK legally recognisd marrige) you will get your married persons pension in Thailand but what you loose out on is the yearly rises/increases.

As for you wife getting her own UK pension or other benefits - no, against the circumstances as you have described them, I do not believe she qualifies for any individual UK state benefits, at least while here in Thailand.

Someone correct me if I am wrong please.

You are correct about the Dependants allowance but it is being phased out after 2010.

Don`t we just love the UK.?

[rimbung]

Taxexile,

I'm a UK born British passport holder and my Thai wife is also a UK citizen.

I'm aware of what we can get in a few years time.

However I have heard bar talk of UK guys with Thai wives who have never set foot in the UK being allowed to claim the married couple allowance. I guess if this is the case then it applies across India,Pakistan etc.

The mind boggles as to who is paying?

As for those walking frames and shopping trollys I am glad Thai roads and pavements are not friendly to them.

The biggest obstacle on UK pavements now is OAP motor scooters followed by Lycra clad crazy bikers

Must say the heating allowance would not be a lot of use here at the moment but I could use it for a few beers to cool down.

[taxexile]

I guess if this is the case then it applies across India,Pakistan etc.

i read that muslim men who are accepted for uk immigration will be allowed to bring with them , and be able to claim benefits , for up to 5 , yes 5 , wives ... even though polygamy is against the law in the uk.

they're giving it away !!!!

[rimbung]

I guess if this is the case then it applies across India,Pakistan etc.

i read that muslim men who are accepted for uk immigration will be allowed to bring with them , and be able to claim benefits , for up to 5 , yes 5 , wives ... even though polygamy is against the law in the uk.

they're giving it away !!!!

As a 56 year old married to a 35 year old I can state for sure one is enough. I could never satisfy five!

But to be serious, I cannot believe you can claim for a wife who has never been to the UK?

I have a stepson here in Thailand (11 years old) and we have been married for nine. He has never been to the UK but is a dependant. Can I claim for him? Family allowance etc.

[taxexile]

again , i read that eu workers in the uk , specifically polish men , are claiming and receiving child benefit for their children who are back home with their mothers in poland and have never set foot in the uk.

i dont know if they are legally entitled to this or they are just playing on the inefficiency of the uk benefit system.

but to me , it looks like an abuse of the system.

[buffcoat]

Yes the child benefit for EU citizens even though the kids are not in the UK is legal.

The UK Govt is so inept it did not understand the impact of the treaties it signed.

Personally I have no problem with Thai wives of UK citizens receiving payments. The entitlement accrues from the husband and the presumed contribution he has made during his working life in the UK.

If a UK born wife who has never worked and therefore not financially contributed to the state is entitled to the payments why should a Thai wife be any different.

The thing about pensions that gripes me is that the UK Govt will freeze the amount you pay at the moment you leave the country

[billd766]

However I have heard stories that a Thai wife (non UK passport) who has never entered the UK still qualifies for a dependant allowance.

shes never set foot in the uk !!!

why dont you try and get her the winter heating fuel allowance too , and whilst you're at it , maybe a bus pass and some meals on wheels and one of those little shopping trolleys with wheels that the oldies over there get , i'm sure the british taxpayer would be only too happy to fund it all for you.

thailand is already full to bursting with brits on the fiddle , now it seems we've got scrounging pensioners as well.

Well Taxexile

Next year I will be one of those pensioners you think are on the fiddle and from July 1959 until October 199 I was never out of work even for 1 day. I have paid up all my 44 YEARS contributions at the full rate for 40 years and at the self employed rate. I have been married to my Thai wife 8 years in April and she has no intention EVER of living in the UK as she is Thai through and through.

I asked her to marry me and not the other way around.

Unfortunately while the British taxpayer has no choice in funding me or not that nice Labour government doesnt care about me in Thailand and refuses to pay the paltry extra to increase EVERYBODYS pension at the same rate.

The last time I looked it was around 5 or 600 million pounds to upgrade it.

At that time Social Securit frauds were costing the UK in excess of 7 billion pounds a year.

As buffcoat says the pension is on MY contribution and not my wifes.

[billd766]

However I have heard stories that a Thai wife (non UK passport) who has never entered the UK still qualifies for a dependant allowance.

shes never set foot in the uk !!!

why dont you try and get her the winter heating fuel allowance too , and whilst you're at it , maybe a bus pass and some meals on wheels and one of those little shopping trolleys with wheels that the oldies over there get , i'm sure the british taxpayer would be only too happy to fund it all for you.

thailand is already full to bursting with brits on the fiddle , now it seems we've got scrounging pensioners as well.

Well Taxexile

Next year I will be one of those pensioners you think are on the fiddle and from July 1959 until October 1999 I was never out of work even for 1 day. I have paid up all my 44 YEARS contributions at the full rate for 40 years and rest at the self employed rate. I have been married to my Thai wife 8 years in April and she has no intention EVER of living in the UK as she is Thai through and through. Equally I have NO intention of returning to the country of my birth as I don't think the country that is called the UK is the same one that I came from.

I asked her to marry me and not the other way around.

Unfortunately while the British taxpayer has no choice in funding me or not that nice Labour government doesnt care about me in Thailand and refuses to pay the paltry extra to increase EVERYBODYS pension at the same rate. In fact they are happy because they are saving money by not doing it which gives them a little more to squander on itinerant Romanian violinists and the like.

The last time I looked it was around 5 or 600 million pounds to upgrade it.

At that time Social Securit frauds were costing the UK in excess of 7 billion pounds a year.

As buffcoat says the pension is on MY contribution and not my wifes.

Edited March 7, 2008 by billd766

[esprit]

However I have heard stories that a Thai wife (non UK passport) who has never entered the UK still qualifies for a dependant allowance.

shes never set foot in the uk !!!

why dont you try and get her the winter heating fuel allowance too , and whilst you're at it , maybe a bus pass and some meals on wheels and one of those little shopping trolleys with wheels that the oldies over there get , i'm sure the british taxpayer would be only too happy to fund it all for you.

thailand is already full to bursting with brits on the fiddle , now it seems we've got scrounging pensioners as well.

Don't be ridiculous. Bangkok buses don't except the UK bus pass.

[mrbojangles]

I have a stepson here in Thailand (11 years old) and we have been married for nine. He has never been to the UK but is a dependant. Can I claim for him? Family allowance etc.

Unfortunately not. I have a step daughter in Thailand and she is coming over to the UK in the next couple of months (hopefully) from the minute she lands here i can claim family allowance.

[rimbung]

So do I understand that the moment my stepson alights in the UK I can start claiming family allowance?

What if he comes back to Thailand?

The way the rules work seem to suggest that keeping a UK house is worthwhile however small.

As I understand it you could rent your UK terraced home out in the winter,avoid the high fuel bills and then take up residence from April until the end of September when you return to Thailand.

During the UK stay if you claimed pension/unemployment etc you would get the mortgage/rates paid plus unemploment/pension and income support.

[Templer]

Its correct what you say about the eastern Europeanc claiming

Child Benifit , when there children have not step foot on UK soil,

I think they can claim Child Tax Credits as well,

There is some arrangement with the govenments

(Uk citizen in poland can claim there equivilant,)

But what gets me, is if my children are out of the country for more than

6weeks or are in Hospilal for more than 6 weeks these benifits are stopped.

I have been told if I were to retire in Thailand my wife would be able to Claim as well.

But that is along way off, so the rules will probaly change.

[the scouser]

The information provided within this thread is redolent of a Daily Mail article.

I certainly wouldn't believe a word of it.

Scouse.

[pliny]

Ita vero, we said the same shit about the Carthaginians and the bastards came across the Po valley but we sure showed Hannibal what he could do with his ephalumps.

Now, hey, we all speak wop and sell tickets to anyone who wants to come.

Carthago delenda est?

In your dreams mi amico.

Today's Poles where yesterday's Irish.

Grow up, switch on and slap yore bitch, innit.

[rimbung]

Can we forget the rants on European workers in the UK and what they can claim.

Can someone please tell me if a UK resident of pensionable ages retiring with his Thai wife to Thailand can claim the allowance that is available for a UK spouse. (My wife is a long way short of the pension)

[billd766]

I wrote to the pensions department in December and I had a reply in January this year. Basically it says that for me (Iam 65 in May 2009) there will be an allowance paid for my Thai wife based on MY contributions but I understand that this will be phased out by 2020 (I think).

So depending on your current age it may be payable but for a better and more knowledgeable reply you should write to the address on the letter.

I hope that this is of use to people.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I guess if this is the case then it applies across India,Pakistan etc.

i read that muslim men who are accepted for uk immigration will be allowed to bring with them , and be able to claim benefits , for up to 5 , yes 5 , wives ... even though polygamy is against the law in the uk.

they're giving it away !!!!

so are the wives.

[taxexile]

i certainly wouldnt believe a word of it

Scouse

article from the sunday telegraph

Multiple wives will mean multiple benefits

By Jonathan Wynne-Jones

Last Updated: 1:52am GMT 04/02/2008

Husbands with multiple wives have been given the go-ahead to claim extra welfare benefits following a year-long Government review, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.

Even though bigamy is a crime in Britain, the decision by ministers means that polygamous marriages can now be recognised formally by the state, so long as the weddings took place in countries where the arrangement is legal.

The outcome will chiefly benefit Muslim men with more than one wife, as is permitted under Islamic law. Ministers estimate that up to a thousand polygamous partnerships exist in Britain, although they admit there is no exact record.

The decision has been condemned by the Tories, who accused the Government of offering preferential treatment to a particular group, and of setting a precedent that would lead to demands for further changes in British law.

New guidelines on income support from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) state: "Where there is a valid polygamous marriage the claimant and one spouse will be paid the couple rate ... The amount payable for each additional spouse is presently £33.65."

Income support for all of the wives may be paid directly into the husband's bank account, if the family so choose. Under the deal agreed by ministers, a husband with multiple wives may also be eligible for additional housing benefit and council tax benefit to reflect the larger property needed for his family.

The ruling could cost taxpayers millions of pounds. Ministers launched a review of the benefit rules for polygamous marriages in November 2006, after it emerged that some families had benefited financially.

The review concluded in December last year with agreement that the extra benefits should continue to be paid, the Government admitted. The decision was not publicly announced.

Four departments - the Treasury, the DWP, HM Revenue and Customs, and the Home Office - were involved in the review, which concluded that recognising multiple marriages conducted overseas was "the best possible" option. In Britain, bigamy is punishable by up to seven years in prison.

Islamic law permits men to have up to four wives at any one time - known as a harem - provided the husband spends equal amounts of time and money on each of them.

A DWP spokesman claimed that the number of people in polygamous marriages entering Britain had fallen since the 1988 Immigration Act, which "generally prevents a man from bringing a second or subsequent wife with him to this country if another woman is already living as his wife in the UK".

While a married man cannot obtain a spouse visa to bring a second wife into Britain, some multiple partners may be able to enter the country via other legal routes such as tourist visas, student visas or work permits.

In addition, officials have identified a potential loophole by which a man can divorce his wife under British law while continuing to live with her as his spouse under Islamic law, and obtain a spouse visa for a foreign woman who he can legally marry.

"Entry clearance may not be withheld from a second wife where the husband has divorced his previous wife and the divorce is thought to be one of convenience," an immigration rulebook advises. "This is so, even if the husband is still living with the previous wife and to issue the entry clearance would lead to the formation of a polygamous household.

Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, said that the decision was "completely unjustifiable".

"You are not allowed to have multiple marriages in the UK, so to have a situation where the benefits system is treating people in different ways is totally unacceptable and will serve to undermine confidence in the system.

"This sets a precedent that will lead to more demands for the culture of other countries to be reflected in UK law and the benefits system."

Mr Grayling also accused the Government of trying to keep the ruling quiet because the topic is so controversial.

Edited March 9, 2008 by taxexile

[rimbung]

Many thanks for those helpful replies.

I was of the opinion I would be OK claiming the married couples pension when I retire.

My wife is also an Irish citizen and has an Irish passport.

I assume for those married to a Thai with ILR in the UK that the pension for the wife stops when the husband dies.

[rimbung]

Mods

Any chance of pinning this?

[the scouser]

article from the sunday telegraph.....

That's an interesting read, but the practicalities of actually getting a second spouse in to the UK are such that it will remain difficult. Additionally, even if such a spouse were to secure entry to the UK, the no recourse to public funds rule would still apply, thereby effectively negating the effect of the decision referred to in Torygraph article.

Scouse.

[taxexile]

thereby effectively negating the effect of the decision referred to in Torygraph article

.

you certainly have more knowledge of the workings of these systems than i do but

in the current climate of fear of causing offence to minorities that seems to be prevalent in the uk at the moment i would be surprised if the courts would dare to rule against a man wishing to support multiple wives (according to the laws of his faith) with the help of the benefit system.

the eu human rights courts would certainly overturn any such decision on appeal.

[mrbojangles]

thereby effectively negating the effect of the decision referred to in Torygraph article

.

you certainly have more knowledge of the workings of these systems than i do but

in the current climate of fear of causing offence to minorities that seems to be prevalent in the uk at the moment i would be surprised if the courts would dare to rule against a man wishing to support multiple wives (according to the laws of his faith) with the help of the benefit system.

the eu human rights courts would certainly overturn any such decision on appeal.

I don't think it's a matter of upseeting anyone and i can't see how it could go to court. It's part of the process of being able to gain entry. I'm pretty sure that the "No recourse to public funds" applies to everyone wanting a SV. So effectively, the guy wanting to bring multiple wives would have to prove he can support them all AND once they arrive, they have sufficient living accomodation.

Also, seeing as bigamy is illegal in this country, how can this work? Anybody who wants to commit it in future would surely just claim to changing faith's.

[bsacbob]

Some of you may want to check out this government web site it has some very useful info

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/BritonsLivingAbroad/index.htm

[sumrit]

Many thanks for those helpful replies.

I was of the opinion I would be OK claiming the married couples pension when I retire.

My wife is also an Irish citizen and has an Irish passport.

I assume for those married to a Thai with ILR in the UK that the pension for the wife stops when the husband dies.

As I understand it if the husband dies first if the wife is over 45 she will be entitled to a widows pension as long as she doesn't remarry and when she's 65 if she doesn't have enough contributions in her own right to qualify for a full pension then she is entitled to a full pension on the back of her husbands contributions (assuming her husband had paid his contributions in full). And as the UK government doesn't discriminate on race it doesn't matter whether the wife is British, Thai, or any other nationality.

[sumrit]

I understand that a UK passport holder married to a Thai wife will get the married pension allowance while living in the UK but this is not paid once the couple take up residence in Thailand.

However I have heard stories that a Thai wife (non UK passport) who has never entered the UK still qualifies for a dependant allowance.

What are the facts on UK pensioners married to Thai's.

Will a UK pensioner living in Thailand still get the married allowance for a non pension age wife who only has ILTR?

best way is this, have an address in uk, your own, or use a family member, or friend.

when you apply, show them your marriage certificate...pretend you are both living in uk, don't tell them you live in thailand, because your pension will be frozen on that years amount.

i have already prepared the ground work, i have taken my thai wife to uk, on tourist visa, and a settlement visa, she has a NI number....but we live in thailand.

in two years i am 60, so i will claim pension credits as a married man, then when i am 65 will claim my pension and recieve a married allowance. bob's your uncle!

i will claim every single penny i can, and screw them as much as possible, as i am a born and bred Brit, i recent the fact lazy gits, can go to uk and claim everything. as i have paid NI and tax all my life, i am not going to miss out on my pension full amount, so it can be given to a non Brit!

and i will enjoy spending it in thailand.

the NI number for your wife is not at this point necessary as my friend has just completed the process without.

You will get your own state pension at 65 but you won't get the married/dependents allowance because that is only available to people who reach 65 before 5th April 2010 (and then only payable until 2020).

Anybody who reaches 65 after that date will just get their own single persons state pension and then as a family unit will be means tested for any further benefits (pension credit,housing benefit etc) they might

be entitled to.

Edited March 11, 2008 by sumrit

[rimbung]

You will get your own state pension at 65 but you won't get the married/dependents allowance because that is only available to people who reach 65 before 5th April 2010 (and then only payable until 2020).

Anybody who reaches 65 after that date will just get their own single persons state pension and then as a family unit will be means tested for any further benefits (pension credit,housing benefit etc) they might

be entitled to.

Which I understand means for those retired to Thailand only the UK pension is payable. The other benefits are only available for UK residents. I know quite a few here in Thailand who are basing their retirement prospects on also claiming the married/dependents allowance for their Thai wife. The current UK single persons pension will give you 22,207 baht a month.

However that will never increase and be eroded by inflation each year.