Singapore Keeps Australian Terror Scare Pilot

[LaoPo]

So, Malaysia knew of the plane (in trouble...?) but 'Samui' couldn't find/trace it anymore....?

What about ALL the other Thai airports between Samui and the Malaysian border, like Phuket, Krabi, Songkhla, Hat Yai, Trang, Surat Thani, Nakon si Tammarat, Narathiwat....; they didn't know about that plane ?

Not one of them traced that plane on radar ?

Not one of them was informed about problems with the plane...?

For those who do not realize the distance(s), here's an image:

Hmmm...the distance Samui-Bangkok is closer (or about the same) than the Thai-Malaysia Gulf-border...let alone Singapore....

I think it will be a long time before that plane ever returns to Samui...

PS: does this company still exist ?

http://www.andamantimes.com/index.php/2007...nches-in-krabi/

LaoPo

[highdiver]

so he Malasians knew from thai DCA that the plane was having "problems" but Samui airport was trying to call on them for over 2 hours and has direct conection to DCA did not know this???

the Malasians who knew this from the thai then told this to the singaporeans who forgot to tell the Singapore airforce and ended up shutting down Singapore airport.???

there are to many information and controll breaches in this scene...

As for fuel the plane fully fld can holds a usable 320 gallons.

if operated at maximum 10,000 feet on speed of 170KN it will go for around 50 gallons per hour.

As such why did they take so much fuel if they were intending to go only for a "test flight"???

why Singapore??? is there no maintenece facilities is Thailand? or in Malasia? or in Indonesia?

what is in sinagpore?? is it the controll tower chineese lady with the low sexy voice??(anyone landing in SG would know her)

Why was the pilot Australian?? could they no find a local PPL on this forum???

how much did they realy pay for the plane??

now that the plane is sold will they have enough money to pay the old pilot who is still waiting for his salary?

who will use that parking space next to Samui Controll tower??

the plot thickens.....

We should realy turn this thread into a script and send it to Steven Spielberg.

LaoPo thanks for the scene on the beach with the "rich" pilot is seducing the local Thai girl into coming for a ride in his plane...

dont worry he tells her .... it just a test flight?

Edited January 28, 2008 by highdiver

[sibeymai]

Sounds like a monumental lack of communication between the various regulatory agencies involved in tracking aircraft.

It can't be the first instance of a plane arriving in Singapore unannounced but these days unannounced arrivals are treated with more scrutiny. Scrambling the Air Force jets is what was supposed to happen and if the threat is benign then it's just a "realistic" training exercise. Nothing wrong with that. The Air Force pilots probably enjoyed the exercise, but the float plane pilots probably enjoyed it less.

For their part the float plane pilots are entitled to go to Singapore on an unapproved flight plan. If refused entry they could simply have declared an emergency, if not done already, and request permission to land which, except in exceptional circumstances, the Singapore authorities are obliged to grant. The float plane pilots would have to justify their emergency once on the ground and the Singapore authorities would have to justify any refusal to land (forcing the plane to go elsewhere, ditch or be shot down), so there are checks and balances both ways.

All in all, a float plane is no threat to a couble of jets and easily managed. Closing the airport and holding flights seems to have been a slight overreaction. Probably a set response to the situation, but 20 minutes seems a long time to resolve the situation.

[yorkman]

For their part the float plane pilots are entitled to go to Singapore on an unapproved flight plan.

You make some very fair points, as do highdiver and LaoPo. but thats just wrong. Regardless of Thai regulations, which they can make tougher.

By international agreement, there are very few places you can cross an international border and not have an approved flight plan. Sometimes they are approved at the last minute, sometimes when the aircraft is already in the air. You can also request a change to the flight plan in the air, but it does need to be approved. This is possibly what the Thai DCA did here.

If you think about it, it would be open season for people to smuggle anything across borders, people, drugs.... whatever if this was not the case. Apart from which you would be entering another country's sovereign territory unannounced and with no check as to who you are. You cant do this on land or sea entry, the same applies.

Anyway..... I would not think its particularly suspicious that it had full tanks. There is an old saying about nothing being as useless as the runway behind you, and the same applies to the fuel you have not got. Many GA pilots keep the tanks topped for safety. Large passenger aircraft take the fuel they need, plus obligatory reserves, as it costs a fortune to haul 1000's of pounds of fuel around uneccesarily, but with a smaller aircraft and a small internal load it is neither here nor there really.

What is strange, is that the new owners obviously want to get their new aircraft to Australia. If it has been sat around for a long time in the hands of a defunct company it will have mountain of bills hanging over its head, not least of which is parking charges for certain, but unpaid engineering bills potentially, god knows what.

By coincidence a niggling fault "happens" to turn up on its "test flight". Which is cured somehow by the time it gets to Singapore. Visions here of more Steven Spielburg scenarios where the brave aviator steps out onto the float and cranks the gear down, with the obligatory falling off, hanging on by one hand, and climbing back up again

There does seem to be a fair bit of press misreporting here (whats new?) and it may well be that Gatorade is correct, just a communications issue between the civilian and military side in Singapore.

But... but, it does smell a bit suspicious all round

I too think it will be a long time before the aircraft returns to Samui. Goes to Australia maybe. Very convenient

Ye gods, I bet they dropped one when an F16 appeared on each wingtip

[Gatorade]

For their part the float plane pilots are entitled to go to Singapore on an unapproved flight plan.

You make some very fair points, as do highdiver and LaoPo. but thats just wrong. Regardless of Thai regulations, which they can make tougher.

By international agreement, there are very few places you can cross an international border and not have an approved flight plan. Sometimes they are approved at the last minute, sometimes when the aircraft is already in the air. You can also request a change to the flight plan in the air, but it does need to be approved. This is possibly what the Thai DCA did here.

If you think about it, it would be open season for people to smuggle anything across borders, people, drugs.... whatever if this was not the case. Apart from which you would be entering another country's sovereign territory unannounced and with no check as to who you are. You cant do this on land or sea entry, the same applies.

Anyway..... I would not think its particularly suspicious that it had full tanks. There is an old saying about nothing being as useless as the runway behind you, and the same applies to the fuel you have not got. Many GA pilots keep the tanks topped for safety. Large passenger aircraft take the fuel they need, plus obligatory reserves, as it costs a fortune to haul 1000's of pounds of fuel around uneccesarily, but with a smaller aircraft and a small internal load it is neither here nor there really.

What is strange, is that the new owners obviously want to get their new aircraft to Australia. If it has been sat around for a long time in the hands of a defunct company it will have mountain of bills hanging over its head, not least of which is parking charges for certain, but unpaid engineering bills potentially, god knows what.

By coincidence a niggling fault "happens" to turn up on its "test flight". Which is cured somehow by the time it gets to Singapore. Visions here of more Steven Spielburg scenarios where the brave aviator steps out onto the float and cranks the gear down, with the obligatory falling off, hanging on by one hand, and climbing back up again

There does seem to be a fair bit of press misreporting here (whats new?) and it may well be that Gatorade is correct, just a communications issue between the civilian and military side in Singapore.

But... but, it does smell a bit suspicious all round

I too think it will be a long time before the aircraft returns to Samui. Goes to Australia maybe. Very convenient

Ye gods, I bet they dropped one when an F16 appeared on each wingtip

Whatever the final outcome, you are right it would make a good story! For sure, it will not come back to Samui and I would lay odds that it will end up in Australia one day. (It must have been interesting/frightening to see the F16s trying to keep station with the Caravan at 140 knots!).

[Samui Coconut]

Whatever the final outcome, you are right it would make a good story! For sure, it will not come back to Samui and I would lay odds that it will end up in Australia one day. (It must have been interesting/frightening to see the F16s trying to keep station with the Caravan at 140 knots!).

Probably feels like parking mode for the F16 pilot

[Jai Dee]

Straits air surveillance to include Thailand

Malaysia and Singapore plan to invite Thailand to join them in the "Eyes in the Skies" air surveillance programme to combat piracy in the Straits of Malacca.

Defence Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said the "Eyes in the Skies" air surveillance had very positive impact on the security of the Straits.

"We want to expand this and there is a possibility that Thailand will be with us in the programme," he told reporters Tuesday after a visit from his Singapore counterpart Teo Chee Hean.

As for the timing, Najib said, this would depend on the new Thail Government which had just been sworn in.

"They have expressed their interest to join us and we have no objection," he said.

Teo said the "Eyes in the Skies" programme had made the Straits more secure that it was now taken off the war risk list which was an important development for shippers.

Both ministers described their bilateral relations in defence as good.

Najib said they also discussed the exchange of information between the two countries, particularly with regards to security in the region.

Source: Malaysian Star - 29 January 2008

[highdiver]

AHHH!!!

now pirates enter the plot!!!

this is the best thread for a long time!!!

[LaoPo]

The way I see it:

1. Samui>>>Malaysian Gulf-border is about 430 kms in a straight line from Samui. How long does it take.....1 1/2 hours ?

It's even a longer distance if one would follow the coastline. Malaysian border>>>Singapore is about another 660 km in a straight line, but did the plane flew that line or followed the coastline which is a LOT longer ?

2. It went for a 40 min test-flight....and had problems on the way.

3. The tower on Samui couldn't trace the plane anymore; I assume the tower warned other airports; is that true, TV pilots and other specialists ?

4. Why didn't they hear/see/trace the plane anymore, but:

5. Malaysian airspace knew about the plane's problems...

6. S'pore jets take over.

Hmmmm...

Note: anymore news from S'pore so we can continue the plot...?

LaoPo

[yorkman]

Whatever the final outcome, you are right it would make a good story! For sure, it will not come back to Samui and I would lay odds that it will end up in Australia one day. (It must have been interesting/frightening to see the F16s trying to keep station with the Caravan at 140 knots!).

Indeed, but not a problem for Johnny (Hot Dog) Chan and his best buddy and WO "Ice Cube" . They can defy physics, and back to the tower with a "Yeeeehaaaa", and a roll at low level. Plus his buddy Maverick hanging "on his six"

Sheesh, the trauma, the personal angst, and he got another Mia Noi on the side.

Coins in jukebox......

[Gatorade]

The way I see it:

1. Samui>>>Malaysian Gulf-border is about 430 kms in a straight line from Samui. How long does it take.....1 1/2 hours ?

It's even a longer distance if one would follow the coastline. Malaysian border>>>Singapore is about another 660 km in a straight line, but did the plane flew that line or followed the coastline which is a LOT longer ?

2. It went for a 40 min test-flight....and had problems on the way.

3. The tower on Samui couldn't trace the plane anymore; I assume the tower warned other airports; is that true, TV pilots and other specialists ?

4. Why didn't they hear/see/trace the plane anymore, but:

5. Malaysian airspace knew about the plane's problems...

6. S'pore jets take over.

Hmmmm...

Note: anymore news from S'pore so we can continue the plot...?

LaoPo

More for the plot

Re.4 The tower at Samui/Krabi/Narathiwat/Nakhon Si have no radar facilities. This service is conducted remotely by Bangkok centre and coverage is generally not available below 2500ft.

However, there is a military primary radar on Samui.

[MrSquigle]

By international agreement, there are very few places you can cross an international border and not have an approved flight plan.

I have crossed the Oz/PNG borders many times without the hint of a radio call or flightplan.

Also caused kaos and panic amongst several dozen sea slug gatherers resulting in numerous coral lacerations on various body parts.

[beerguy]

I just have one question?

Was Alan on the plane and trying to sneak outta Samui without paying his debts again or not?

(For legal purposes, the above mentioned was for comedic purposes only and does reflect in any way the opinions of this board, its moderators or of anyone with a sane mind.)

[Tony121]

I also heard that BigC sent of the request in writing to the singapore air control

(For legal purposes, the above mentioned was for comedic purposes only and does reflect in any way the opinions of this board, its moderators or of anyone with a sane mind.)

[bkkperson]

Hey guys im sorry about all the inconvience..it was me i had ran out of HP sauce and when i went to tesco's they told me there was a shortage of the good stuff at the moment and if i really needed brown sauce to accompany my corned beef baguette the only store that had some available was in Singapore..so with no thought for anybody apart from my own craving i selfishly jumped aboard me plane..

So im sorry

[highdiver]

I just have one question?

Was Alan on the plane and trying to sneak outta Samui without paying his debts again or not?

(For legal purposes, the above mentioned was for comedic purposes only and does reflect in any way the opinions of this board, its moderators or of anyone with a sane mind.)

great one!!

[yorkman]

I just have one question?

Thus far it seems the occupants were a pilot (one of the new owners, and his name is known, in more senses than one), and an "engineer".

That would make sense if they were in Thailand to check out their new toy, carry out a test flight, and then ferry it to Australia.

[putin]

Well Sherlock its' just a small point but please explain how you get into Sin Airspace from Samui/Thailand without going through Malay Airspace?

Also, perhaps one of the previous threads regarding the operational difficulties in setting up the operation in Samui might be helpful with your pontificating. should you decide to read it.

My My, this is yet another time you have posted rather angrily on this thread, claiming to know some inside track, yet adding nothing. If you cant read a light hearted response to another poster, not yourself you may note, without venting your spleen, it does rather suggest you have an agenda.

But, just to humour you, and I dont even need to look at any other thread (wherever that might be), I think you would agree this does not appear to be a legal flight? Agreed? So legal operational difficulties dont come into it.

So, leave Samui, fly well offshore down the Malaysian coast and then track into SIN and by the time you attract the attention of the Malays, the Singapore ADIZ approaches. So they deal with it. For reasons that are irrelevent here, I am very very familiar with flight operations into and out of Singapore.

Lighten up, or pontificate on that, as you please

Or if you do know , do share..........

[LaoPo]

More for the plot

Re.4 The tower at Samui/Krabi/Narathiwat/Nakhon Si have no radar facilities. This service is conducted remotely by Bangkok centre and coverage is generally not available below 2500ft.

However, there is a military primary radar on Samui.

Are you telling us that the tower can't 'see' any planes on a radar system when it's dark or bad visibility ? ...and that ALL airports outside -south of- Bangkok have NO radar systems ?

Maybe most people have forgotten about the Bangkok Air crash on Samui, back in Nov. 21 -1990.... that happened in bad (heavy rain) weather. All 38 people on board died.

LaoPo

[Obiwan]

More for the plot

Re.4 The tower at Samui/Krabi/Narathiwat/Nakhon Si have no radar facilities. This service is conducted remotely by Bangkok centre and coverage is generally not available below 2500ft.

However, there is a military primary radar on Samui.

Are you telling us that the tower can't 'see' any planes on a radar system when it's dark or bad visibility ? ...and that ALL airports outside -south of- Bangkok have NO radar systems ?

Maybe most people have forgotten about the Bangkok Air crash on Samui, back in Nov. 21 -1990.... that happened in bad (heavy rain) weather. All 38 people on board died.

LaoPo

Anyone know where excactly this plane crashed on the island?

[LaoPo]

More for the plot

Re.4 The tower at Samui/Krabi/Narathiwat/Nakhon Si have no radar facilities. This service is conducted remotely by Bangkok centre and coverage is generally not available below 2500ft.

However, there is a military primary radar on Samui.

Are you telling us that the tower can't 'see' any planes on a radar system when it's dark or bad visibility ? ...and that ALL airports outside -south of- Bangkok have NO radar systems ?

Maybe most people have forgotten about the Bangkok Air crash on Samui, back in Nov. 21 -1990.... that happened in bad (heavy rain) weather. All 38 people on board died.

LaoPo

Anyone know where excactly this plane crashed on the island?

No, I don't know; but it crashed in a coconut plantation; I assume not far from the airport.

Accident details:

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1990/1990-67.htm

LaoPo

[yorkman]

Are you telling us that the tower can't 'see' any planes on a radar system when it's dark or bad visibility ? ...and that ALL airports outside -south of- Bangkok have NO radar systems ?

You seem to be shocked by this. It just restricts the capability of that airport to accept traffic depending on the conditions.

There are huge numbers of smaller airports around the world that use the radar service from elsewhere

[LaoPo]

Are you telling us that the tower can't 'see' any planes on a radar system when it's dark or bad visibility ? ...and that ALL airports outside -south of- Bangkok have NO radar systems ?

You seem to be shocked by this. It just restricts the capability of that airport to accept traffic depending on the conditions.

There are huge numbers of smaller airports around the world that use the radar service from elsewhere

Well, in a way I am and it's still not entirely clear to me how and why (ALL) the Thai airports didn't 'see' -or knew about- the aircraft but Malaysia did....

Anybody care to explain ?

Your explanation is not enough for me, unfortunately; I think it's a shame that 'Samui' and/or all the other airports didn't know about this plane. In fact it would be possible to 'stuff up' a small plane and send it 'down' somewhere from/in the south, unnoticed by Thai authorities.....anybody can use their own imagination...scary thoughts

LaoPo

Edited January 30, 2008 by LaoPo

[Gatorade]

Are you telling us that the tower can't 'see' any planes on a radar system when it's dark or bad visibility ? ...and that ALL airports outside -south of- Bangkok have NO radar systems ?

You seem to be shocked by this. It just restricts the capability of that airport to accept traffic depending on the conditions.

There are huge numbers of smaller airports around the world that use the radar service from elsewhere

Well, in a way I am and it's still not entirely clear to me how and why (ALL) the Thai airports didn't 'see' -or knew about- the aircraft but Malaysia did....

Anybody care to explain ?

Your explanation is not enough for me, unfortunately; I think it's a shame that 'Samui' and/or all the other airports didn't know about this plane. In fact it would be possible to 'stuff up' a small plane and send it 'down' somewhere from/in the south, unnoticed by Thai authorities.....anybody can use their own imagination...scary thoughts

LaoPo

Samui Airport amongst many others uses an Instrument Approach procedure based on ground based aids. Radar is neither necessary or required since the procedures are based upon weather conditions which if not met preclude an approach or take off.

There are many airports with radar, I listed those along the possible route, all of them apart from Surat, and Hat Yai do not have this facility.

Even if they did it would only be aerodrome radar with a very limited range, say 25Nm.

The 89' crash which took place was in the hills of Chaweng in severe weather conditions and it was thought that the

aircraft approach was continued after the Minimum Descent Altitude with very limited visibility.

[LaoPo]

There are many airports with radar, I listed those along the possible route, all of them apart from Surat, and Hat Yai do not have this facility.

is it me, or......

LaoPo

[jumnien]

If the planes transponder was in the same working condition as its radios were reported to be in, it is possible that Thai civil aviation could not track it. As far as Thai military radar commenting publically regarding at exactly which altitudes it was or was not tracking the plane, I don't think we will be getting that information. If the plane was not receiving or was ignoring Thai civil aviation radio, the same could have happened for Thai military attempts to communicate.

[LaoPo]

If the planes transponder was in the same working condition as its radios were reported to be in, it is possible that Thai civil aviation could not track it. As far as Thai military radar commenting publically regarding at exactly which altitudes it was or was not tracking the plane, I don't think we will be getting that information. If the plane was not receiving or was ignoring Thai civil aviation radio, the same could have happened for Thai military attempts to communicate.

...and let the plane go without sending jets....?

It doesn't matter what I think... ...but I think the ones responsible for 'Thai' airspace...lost face, whether civil, military or both.

LaoPo

[jumnien]

There is some good threads on Professional Pilots Rumour Network, especially a statement by Malaysian authorities that tends to support the Aussie pilots.

[LaoPo]

There is some good threads on Professional Pilots Rumour Network, especially a statement by Malaysian authorities that tends to support the Aussie pilots.

I'm not sure what you mean....?

Are you saying that the Malaysian authorities believed the Aussie pilots that they got 'lost' on their 40 min 'test' flight, entering Malaysian airspace ?

I mean the flying distance from Samui to the Malaysian border was some 1 1/2 hours...

Hmmmm....interested to read your PPRN...

LaoPo

[jumnien]

Professional Pilots Rumour Network, South Asian section.