Visiting Bangkok

[Readytogo]

I will be visiting Bangkok in January 2005. I have been there three times before and I love it. I am now learning to speak read and write Thai and I now can send e-mails and hold basic conversations in Thai.

Up to now I have only been to a few Patpong boybars and met people like that. I have enjoyed it but hated the fact that really these guys are interested only in money.

I am realistic. At age 47, I do not expect young guys to be swooning when they see me. But there must ne places in Bangkok where ordinary gays go to meet without the thought of money being their only motivation. Any suggestions of places to go?

I have had a relationship recently with a guy who works in a bar (not a gay bar) in Patpong but I now know he has been having a fling with some other farang. He denies it but I know because I accidentally stumbled across their e-mails to each other. I hate the lies.

Anyway, enough of that. Any suggestions of good spots to visit?

[Ijustwannateach]

Sadly, in Thailand, there are almost no relationships that do not have a financial component of SOME kind that is more actively realized than in "Western" countries. I've been told by straight guys (level ones with jobs and wives who've decided to live here, not barflies) that Thais love, but there's always a practical side to it- in an almost Victorian sense. That doesn't mean that there won't be guys who love you for you, but there will always be at least a little tiny bit of awareness that you have so much more money than they do, and in the Thai way of thinking this obliges you, patron-style. You could think of it as you being a father figure.

That said, there's a bit of difference between patronage and milking. An average salary in Bangkok is 4-6000 BAHT a month for a 10hr a day, 6 day a week job. You can judge the sincerity of requests for 25K a month by this, right?

Real Thais who work and have real jobs have little time or money to hang out in bars for any reason. If they do go, it's typically to all-Thai bars with small groups of friends who stand around a table dancing and drinking together- a hard social milieu for farang to break into, though it can happen. I recommend Dreaded Ned's website (do a google search) for detailed maps of gay Bangkok to locate bars of this sort.

so here's the deal: A real Thai with a real life is possible to find, but he will have little time to hang out with you and you'll need to bear the shared costs of any expensive nightlife. An idle Thai with plenty of free time for you and/or money is almost always dodgy in some way (where does the money come from? how does he have all this time to spend in bars?) or rich, which is often worse. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Good luck!

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

P.S. don't put yourself down about your age. There's a whole population of younger men here who yearn for older men- and it's not all about the money, either.

[Readytogo]

Sadly, in Thailand, there are almost no relationships that do not have a financial component of SOME kind that is more actively realized than in "Western" countries. I've been told by straight guys (level ones with jobs and wives who've decided to live here, not barflies) that Thais love, but there's always a practical side to it- in an almost Victorian sense. That doesn't mean that there won't be guys who love you for you, but there will always be at least a little tiny bit of awareness that you have so much more money than they do, and in the Thai way of thinking this obliges you, patron-style. You could think of it as you being a father figure.

I realise that there is almost always a financial "incentive" and I really don't mind helping out. I was helping this guy.

He is not a "barboy" and I really think ( I have good reasons) that it is the first time he has done this (since meeting me anyway). Maybe I should just forgive and forget. But he has humiliated me also by going with a guy that he met in his bar in front of all his co-workers who know me well and know that I have been sending him money regularly.

I wonder if he did it for free! Maybe he spent some of my money on him! Shit! Never thought of that. I think I would mind less if I thought the farang had to pay! Well, I've got to try and find a funny side to this. I am really quite hurt by the whole thing.

Thanks for your help.

[PeaceBlondie]

I almost fell in love with my first longterm barboy, and I still remember him fondly. But he'd been working the circuit since he was 15! He was as cute as could be, everything I thought I wanted, except for a few minor little things. He didn't know much English at all, didn't know how to do anything else, didn't have much schooling, everybody knew what he'd been doing, he was a very obvious katoey, and....you get the picture, don't you, when I spell it out like that? But it took me MONTHS to even realize how much of a ladyboy he obviously was.

I 'broke up' with this barboy to go with a wonderful 35 year old Thai who has a good heart, a real job, a family here in town, no prostitute background, etc. We're still together after 14 months. I'm 62 now. It can happen. Rarely does it happen; IJWT is still trying hard.

It's okay to pay for sex, but that's just something you rent, not keep. To earn trust, long-term, you have to work hard and pay with your heart.

[ChrisP]

Hi RTG...

You might just check this thread too... (plough through the first page of negative comments.. it gets better.)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8618

I've had the similar experience of finding a nice Bar-boy last year.. then discovering 2 other Farang on the string... but then I got lucky..

I've now had 7 months with a beautiful 21yr old dancer (not a Bar-Boy)... who really prefers guys over 40 - Thai or Western.. (that's just his type, and yes he started dating at 15, and was a "butterfly" too.). But that period is over, he's honest, a total romantic and I've met his friends and Mum. Like most Thai's he doesn't earn a lot either, so I try and help a little too. But he is sensible with money.

Good luck..!

ChrisP

Edited September 25, 2004 by ChrisP

[coolestuk]

Well, first ... forget what you think about your age. My boyfriend is 12 years younger than me (I'm 42). Not just that ... he is very handsome, very loving, very muscular... And he says I'm really a bit too young for him - I've met one of his ex-boyfriends (a Thai), who is in his early 50s.

I know for sure my boyfriend was not a bar boy, and has little experience on the gay scene. I met him on my 2nd two-week holiday in BKK. He didn't know his way round the gay bars, had never even been to somewhere like DJ Station, and he spoke almost no English,

When I met him he didn't even like white men (I'm very white) - in fact, he is quite embarrassed to recall how he would loudly state to his friends how disgustingly ugly and smelly he thought white men were. (As lovely and shy as as he is, he is given to the most extraordinary outbursts of hostility to certain groups of people - I'm glad of this bad feature, because otherwise he would be too close to perfect).

We met in the most unlikely place - Babylon. It was his first trip there, although he had been to many other gay saunas. And although I was captivated by him from the first minute I saw him, once I realised he didn't speak much English, I didn't think there was going to be much more to our encounter. Anyway, we saw each other over the rest of my holiday, and I started to see how lovely he was beyond his handsome features and muscles... but I would not let myself believe it. I certainly did not want a boyfriend in Thailand. When I returned home, he wanted to visit me, but I was reluctant to invite him here, since we had only spent 1 week together. I went back to Thailand for another 2 week holiday a few months later, to see if he was really as lovely as I thought. He was. (I've been trying to get him a visa to the UK for over 2 years now... but that's another story).

When I first visited Babylon, I had disbelieved any claims that a sauna could be a pleasant environment (at the most simple level, it is just like a holiday complex). Well, in my two visits to Thailand I went there many times - I met lots of very nice men there (several of whom, to my surprise, used to buy me drinks and food). I've only once been to a Patpong bar (with my boyfriend and a visiting friend). I found the experience a lot less pleasant than Babylon.

Just my 2c

[Ice Treasure]

Sadly, in Thailand, there are almost no relationships that do not have a financial component of SOME kind that is more actively realized than in "Western" countries.

"Steven"

How sad are you.. Drink/socialise where you hope to find people with similar interests.

All Thais' are not money boys, in fact push the envelope a little and probably find all relationships have a financial component. Don't be putting Thais down as "moneyboys" as a usual issue, because it isn't. Some are, not all. Same as the standard situation at home.. some are tarts, most aren't. Thai boys pay back love with love, they pay back financial expectation with financial requests. Then you get just what you pay for.

Good luck looking for a partner who isn't a whore, and it is doable. Just don't look in bars. PM me if you want to discuss realities as opposed to the general run of the mill crap.

[Ijustwannateach]

^ was not talking about barboys or moneyboys, and that's not where I look for dates. Not sure where you got this idea. And all the farang-Thai relationships I know about have a financial component, gay or straight, just as you and I both have said- I'm not saying it makes them moneyboys. It is less likely here, however, that the Thai and the farang will ever be on equal footing- either the Thai will be MUCH richer or MUCH poorer than we are. That makes things a bit different than the situation in dating, say, in the U.S. where both partners have 9-5 office jobs or the usual stuff like that.

I'm trying to give OP (and others) an accurate picture of life here- either you'll be dating someone with no job who's dodgy or someone with a job and very little time (or someone who's rich, and that's another ballgame). If there's something inaccurate in this please feel free to point it out.

Incidentally, Readytogo, Thais can be very... creative with the truth, and even in "normal" relationships here there is a kind of cultural tradition of infidelity. It depends on the individual, of course. Hope you do better with your next "candidate," and suggest you avoid anyone who works in any kind of bar.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

^Umm, IT, also, as it seems less likely that pm'ing will result in useful information (since you're so willing to find me "sad" in public!) than more condescension, I think we'll stick to the public forum- let's see what others think of your advice and whether it really differs from mine or not... you seem stuck on this idea that I hang out in bars- I don't- and rest assured that bars are not the only place dodginess and unreliability are found.

Another word to the wise for coolestuk and Readytogo- people you meet as a tourist at these farang-frequented places are nice for a quick fling, but the odds are against their sincerity as dedicated partners- after all, they're used to meeting rich-ish foreign tourists who'll be gone next week. Sure, their attraction to you may even be real, and you both enjoy the sex- but it might also be real for next week's tourist. If the illusion's good enough for you, fine. But please be very careful what kind of planning/investment you do for characters you meet this way [and no, I'm not saying they're all MBs- but that you really have no idea what kind of lifestyle they have the other 50 weeks of the year]. Life here as a tourist and as a resident are very different.

"Steven"

[Ice Treasure]

^Umm, IT, also, as it seems less likely that pm'ing will result in useful information (since you're so willing to find me "sad" in public!) than more condescension, I think we'll stick to the public forum- let's see what others think of your advice and whether it really differs from mine or not... you seem stuck on this idea that I hang out in bars- I don't- and rest assured that bars are not the only place dodginess and unreliability are found.

Another word to the wise for coolestuk and Readytogo- people you meet as a tourist at these farang-frequented places are nice for a quick fling, but the odds are against their sincerity as dedicated partners- after all, they're used to meeting rich-ish foreign tourists who'll be gone next week. Sure, their attraction to you may even be real, and you both enjoy the sex- but it might also be real for next week's tourist. If the illusion's good enough for you, fine. But please be very careful what kind of planning/investment you do for characters you meet this way [and no, I'm not saying they're all MBs- but that you really have no idea what kind of lifestyle they have the other 50 weeks of the year]. Life here as a tourist and as a resident are very different.

"Steven"

Ok fair enough... As a personnel consultant, I give "jobs" to "candidates".

Every post about your "candidate" relates to suitability. It appears (on the surface I must confess), that you are trying someone out for a "position" as your partner/lover/whatever, but are relating it to a job, then getting all antsy because he isn't completely "truthful" I suppose is the general term. There are other elements I admit, but that is a defining theme.

Correct me if I'm wrong in this but I am just reading what you are writing...

[coolestuk]

"a word to the wise".... well, we aren't all as green as you might think :-)

I've had plenty of relationships (and flings), with white men in Europe, asians in Europe and Thais in Thailand. And I've caught most of them out lying. And I extend my generosity to many people: I have supported a Spanish boyfriend in the UK when he was out of work for a year. But it was the asians in Europe who expected money from me (one of them came from a mult-million dollar family). My boyfriend in Thailand has never, ever asked me for anything.

I'm sure you are just trying to prevent some true greenhorn from making a terrible mistake. But the truth of the matter is this: the only way to really know someone is to spend time with them (and even if we live with someone, it doesn't really guarantee anything - it is estimated that something like 10% of fathers are not biologically related to some of their children, unbeknownst to them). By nature, I am probably more suspicious than most people (and probably more devious - that is how I have been able to trip up many liars here and in Thailand). Of course I found my Thai boyfriend lying to me (why should he be different from the Europeans). I gave European boyfriends a second chance (I am still very close friends with one, 20 years after our relationship ended), and I gave my Thai boyfriend a second chance.

[ponder]

^ was not talking about barboys or moneyboys, and that's not where I look for dates.  Not sure where you got this idea. 

I think he may have got that idea from me, actually, not you IJWT. You will recall that I mentioned that my friend is a barman.

Ice Treasue : As a tourist visiting Bangkok, it is very hard to "drink/socialise in places where you hope to find people of your interests". How can I know where these places would be?

In Ireland, where I live, I spend a lot of time in bars with people of similar interests to me : drinking and gambling! I would not be seen dead in a gay bar. They are boring and depressing.

I have a (probably wrong) notion of saunas as being venues for public sex and that does not appeal to me at all.

Ice Treasure : maybe I will PM you some time.

Thanks to everyone for exchanging information and views.

[Readytogo]

Sorry. That last post was by me. ponder is an old userid that I had when I first viewed this site a while back. Forgot password and created this name. Must have subliminally signed in. I will stick to this one in future.

[Ijustwannateach]

Every post about your "candidate" relates to suitability. It appears (on the surface I must confess), that you are trying someone out for a "position" as your partner/lover/whatever, but are relating it to a job, then getting all antsy because he isn't completely "truthful" I suppose is the general term. There are other elements I admit, but that is a defining theme.

I am using this as a metaphor- you know? It's not really a "job," and I don't pay my bfs. I'm just evaluating them in a fashion as close to objective as I can. Naturally, my feelings for a person are not quantifiable and arguably negate any rational decision I may reach about them based on the items I discuss here- however, in an area of human life where irrationality rules us, I find it helpful to step back and get others' practical opinions from time to time. Some may not find this wise, but I do.

Naturally, our friends/lovers must occasionally betray us- who else could? but there are different orders of magnitude to betrayal, and I prefer to reduce the risk as much as possible.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

"a word to the wise".... well, we aren't all as green as you might think :-)

...... My boyfriend in Thailand has never, ever asked me for anything........

.........Of course I found my Thai boyfriend lying to me (why should he be different from the Europeans). I gave European boyfriends a second chance (I am still very close friends with one, 20 years after our relationship ended), and I gave my Thai boyfriend a second chance.

Coolestuk, not intending to condescend- your enlightened skepticism shows your experience.

My last Thai bf never asked me for anything, either- that's because (as I later found) he had 2-3 other guys supporting him already and I was the "real boyfriend!"

However, like you, I appear to be giving him a second chance. Foolish? Maybe. We'll see.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Readytogo, it's not hard to find normal gay guys with jobs- go to restaurants, malls, offices, any normal place, and look for the normal "signals!" A quick exchange of cards (or mobile phone numbers) and you're "in business!"

And Ice Treasure's suggestion about interests works especially well for those inclined to the arts- concerts, performances, exhibitions, and other cultural gatherings here are good gay hunting grounds.

Wouldn't recommend looking for folks in drinking or gambling establishments here. Maybe time to take up a new hobby?

"Steven"

[coolestuk]

My last Thai bf never asked me for anything, either- that's because (as I later found) he had 2-3 other guys supporting him already and I was the "real boyfriend!"

I'm glad to say that I don't think he has other men on the side. Of course, he might well be seeing other men for sex while I'm not in Thailand (I can only spend a few months a year there). But that is not the issue for me - I told him he's free to do that, I just don't want him to lie to me if he does go to look for sex. To me infedility is not about what one does with one's bodily organs, it is about breaches of trust and truthfulness.

On several occasions I have been able to spend 1 to 4 months with him. Apart from the time I caught him out lying during one of those visits, on the other visits he everything looked good - he does not get many phone calls (and those he does get are all in Thai), he does not recieve letters or parcels from abroad. I'm sometimes left alone in his apartment for full-length days - if there was any sign that he had more than a brief sexual encounter with someone else, I would have seen it.

Readytogo: I'm not saying that saunas are the only place to go. I'm just saying that you can meet Thai men of a calibre equal to anyone in the west, even in a place like that. However, if you don't like gay bars or saunas, then I think you have limited options in meeting gay men in Thailand - you could just try to catch someone's eye in the street (but you've no guarantee he isn't just looking at you as a foreigner). Or you could use the internet. But I have known some Thai men who meet westerners via the internet - they would go in a small group to an internet cafe and work in a coordinated fashion on the western men they were chatting to. I would trust someone in Thailand encountered via the internet least of all. These guys didn't try to rip me off but I just found that kind of behaviour deceitful and manipulative (mind you, the western man I once saw them with behaved far worse).

Maybe the suggestion of the more 'upmarket' activities will suit you - it wouldn't suit me. The very rich Thai boyfriend I once had was not only money-grabbing but emotionally stunted.

[slapdashkitty]

Yes I think that getting other's ideas and thoughts really truly is helpful. It can at least make you stop a moment and wonder?

And it is strange that here (LOS) in this odd dating matrix-romance becomes so much more cynical and tentative...is all this trepidation founded? Sadly I would have to say yes-but it is far far from hopeless.

Do get out of the bars there are plenty of men out there!

I met a great guy a few weeks ago at the 7-11 can you imagine...he asked me if I needed any help choosing some chips? Sadly he was just not my type but we spent a lovely evening together the following night (dinner and a party) and still chat once a week.

[Deadcert]

Dear me if I ever decided to date a Thai this board would put me right off.

Although gay relationships are difficult at the best of times, relationships with Thai guys seems to present some very unique problems.

Good luck to all you guys.

[orchis]

Steve - IJWT Thank you for your balanced opinions.

I also met two (previous) BF s in Babylon, each romance lasted about a year and neither asked for money. One a PR assistant and one a sales ingeneer.

I also met two BF s in DJ, one a Thai Airways steward and the second one a student.

The last one I helped financially, because he had nothing.

(shows you how long I ve been here)

I pay my current BF's dinner and entertainment when we re together, it s just his poor revenue, sometimes he gives me cute little presents which make me happy.

Every relationship is different and differently negotiated and did I tell you about my impossible character.

Otherwise I had some flings and gave away a few things, but nothing fatal.

Still love it here

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm glad to say that I don't think he has other men on the side. Of course, he might well be seeing other men for sex while I'm not in Thailand (I can only spend a few months a year there). But that is not the issue for me - I told him he's free to do that, I just don't want him to lie to me if he does go to look for sex. To me infedility is not about what one does with one's bodily organs, it is about breaches of trust and truthfulness.

On

I think for Thais it's almost the reverse!

several occasions I have been able to spend 1 to 4 months with him.  Apart from the time I caught him out lying during one of those visits, on the other visits he everything looked good - he does not get many phone calls (and those he does get are all in Thai), he does not recieve letters or parcels from abroad.  I'm sometimes left alone in his apartment for full-length days - if there was any sign that he had more than a brief sexual encounter with someone else, I would have seen it.

I think you're better off just assuming he has other relationships... there are too many ways to hide it. And what if he's dating THAIS? Even Thai girls? It does happen! As you say, you're not there most of the year.

Readytogo: I'm not saying that saunas are the only place to go.  I'm just saying that you can meet Thai men of a calibre equal to anyone in the west, even in a place like that.  However, if you don't like gay bars or saunas, then I think you have limited options in meeting gay men in Thailand - you could just try to catch someone's eye in the street (but you've no guarantee he isn't just looking at you as a foreigner).

I really have to disagree with above! It's true that for a tourist there are limited opportunities to meet regular Thais [and that may be why you wrote this, since it's targetted at a tourist] but if you're living here there are opportunities GALORE!

After all, it's not like the homophobic West- people aren't typically going to slug you just for being gay, and if you get involved in a comedy of errors flirting with a straight guy (and they ARE very flirty, straight or not) the most likely reaction when the mistake is understood is laughter! And who knows, if they're in the right mood, they may even go along with the gag!

I've flirted with shop attendants, restaurant workers, people I just passed on the street (as long as it wasn't anywhere near Silom/Suriwong), people in Internet shops, office workers on the bus, students hanging around their campus.... it takes a few smiles, patience, and a willingness to really 'date' and commit if necessary- 'cause not all of these guys are "easy"- we're talking a month or so of dating before getting to first base in some cases! I've never met with a negative or hostile reaction to being flirty- the worst reaction is a sort of puzzled confusion from someone who's really straight but hasn't understood why I'm beaming at him so much!

Or you could use the internet.  But I have known some Thai men who meet westerners via the internet - they would go in a small group to an internet cafe and work in a coordinated fashion on the western men they were chatting to.  I would trust someone in Thailand encountered via the internet least of all.  These guys didn't try to rip me off but I just found that kind of behaviour deceitful and manipulative (mind you, the western man I once saw them with behaved far worse).

I agree that it takes a bit more care and skepticism dealing with guys you meet on the internet- in a fairly large part, the Thai sections of standard online gay sites have become a blatant brothel. That's why I've been so careful with my candidate (on the other thread)- 'cause I did meet him online.

Maybe the suggestion of the more 'upmarket' activities will suit you - it wouldn't suit me.  The very rich Thai boyfriend I once had was not only money-grabbing but emotionally stunted.

^agree entirely. Materialistic, greedy, money-grubbing, and already richer than most of us.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Every relationship is different and differently negotiated and did I tell you about my impossible character.

Otherwise I had some flings and gave away a few things, but nothing fatal.

Still love it here

Very funny!

I find that the guys in Babylon are OK in general, though I just don't like the whole sauna scene really. Most of them are middle-to-upper class and have their own lives, money, etc.- and most of them are in a good age range for dating; late twenties and up. The younger, cuter ones there are often (be warned!) off-duty prostitutes looking for even more sex or (worse) someone to hook for money later.

Though it is probably possible to find "real" guys at DJ Station, I consider it one big nest of enthusiastic hookers! Not that that's always a bad thing, easy on the eyes and all that!

Oh, and while we're thinking of places to look- don't forget the gyms, especially on Silom. Almost all of them have enthusiastic gay middle class memberships!

"Steven"

[coolestuk]

To me infedility is not about what one does with one's bodily organs, it is about breaches of  trust and truthfulness. 

I think for Thais it's almost the reverse!

I am inclined to agree with you.

[Readytogo]

I have had a relationship recently with a guy who works in a bar (not a gay bar) in Patpong but I now know he has been having a fling with some other farang. He denies it but I know because I accidentally stumbled across their e-mails to each other. I hate the lies.

I submitted the above post a couple of months ago. I expect a bit of stick for what I am going to say now but here goes.

I could not be sure if my friend had really been sleeping with this other guy even though I was almost certain. I suppose I was clinging to the hope that he was telling the truth.

I did an unforgiveable but splendidly cunning thing to find out. I found a way of intercepting their e-mails to each other. Nothing technical, just pure old-fashioned cunning.

Since September, all their e-mails to each other have been coming to me first. I read them, edit them if appropriate and send them on (it's not time-consuming, there's only about one every week or two).

In truth, nothing other than friendship has been obvious from their correspondence, so I recently decided to find out once and for all.

I sent an e-mail to my friend (call him Tim) supposedly from the other guy (call him Jim), saying he was coming to Bangkok. Jim asks Tim to book a hotel in Bangkok for the two of them (double room). Tim does this.

I wait one week. Then I send an e-mail to Tim to tell him that I am coming to Bangkok (on the same day as Jim!) Now I wait for his response. In the meantime, he is still sending e-mails to Jim about the hotel bookings but obviously needs time to think about what to do about me. What is clear to me is that he is going to meet Jim whether I go there or not.

Then I get the 'phone call that I am expecting. Tim calls me to tell me how much he misses me.

And Oh, by the way, he is going away for a couple of months because his mother is sick, so he won't be there when I arrive (i.e. don't come at that time, leave it for a while until he has finished with Jim!).

So now I know for sure and he has made his choice. Now I am satisfied and can get on with my life. Leave it there? Say goodbye? No, sadly, not me. I have to do it my way. I want not revenge but victory. I have to show that I have known all along what has been going on, that I have not been fooled by Tim's feigned affections. I need to prove this not only to Tim but also to all the people that know us both and are covering for him, pretending that I am the only guy in his life. That's what bugs me most, the embarrassment of the cuckold.

So, quite soon now, Tim will be at the airport to meet Jim, who has no idea that he is supposed to be there. I will call Tim while he is at the airport ("private number" will flash up on his 'phone) waiting for Jim who is hours late and he will answer expecting that it will be Jim saying why he is late.

I will say, hey Tim, where are you Tim, it sounds very noisy, like an airport or something, you're supposed to be in the styx looking after your mother aren't you? But in a jocular fashion, pretending I have no idea of where he is really.

More to follow. I want to get this out of my system but not until February 2005 when I will administer the coup de grace (metaphorically speaking, do not call the police!).

Ok. Who thinks I am mad?

[ChrisP]

Oooohhhh. You ARE devious... (How do you DO that.. btw???!)

But, trust me.. I considered doing something similar with my ThaiEx.. too.! I knew he was having 2 others on the string too... and I wanted revenge, just like you. I hate the lies too.

However, when the time came for me to tell him that I knew what was going on, and his game was up.. there was absolutely NO embarrasment or apologies on his part. In fact, he became angry and blamed me!

The one part of this equation you forget is that - in another post here - someone posted that Thai guys don't "say sorry".....

And, sad to say.. MANY of them don't. It's cultural. "Saving face" is EVERYTHING in Thailand.

(Ok.. SOME guys will "say sorry"...)

So, you may get your revenge, but it will be a hollow victory.

Several months later, after I had calmed down, he e-mailed me - from Germany - to say "I am sorry for what happen between us".

Deliciously unspecific!!!

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

Why stay hung up on this guy? Is it really worth it? Living well is the best revenge. Drop out of his life- that's the worst thing we can really do to most people. I think you're still so hung up on him that you're secretly hoping he won't turn out to be the jerk that he so obviously is. That's why you're setting him up- and believe me, he'll give you a song and dance and a run for your money- 'cause that's what he does.

And listen- the moment you said he worked anywhere near Patpong, it was obvious to everyone here that he was using you- it's just too harsh to put it that way when you're still in a fog of euphoria. Even now I think you're still focussing on him- some people need to keep banging their heads until it hurts too much. You're going to have to get a bit off the tourist way here if you really want a good chance of finding someone genuine. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

"Steven"

[Readytogo]

Thanks for your advice.

If someone else had posted this, I would give him this advice : change your e-mail address, get a new SIM and forget it. Sound advice it would be too!

Anyway, I will go through with this just to get it out of my system. The history of our relationship is interesting but I won't go into it now in order to prevent the rapid inducement of sleepiness on anyone reading this.

I take the point that bars around Patpong are unlikely sources of permanent relationships!

Various things about this are stinging me. I think maybe the worst part of it is that my friend clearly prefers the other guy and that is that. Bit stupid to get upset about that! Also, there appears to be no money involved in their relationship, whereas I send my friend money from time to time to help him out (ouch, that hurts too, more wounded pride!).

At the back of my mind all the time is a feeling of guilt on my own part. This friend of mine is 33, works in a bar, earns 7,000 baht per month, sleeps in a dormitory above the bar...no future there I think. And I am about to ditch him. That is probably why I am being so persistent in this, so that when I say goodbye to him, I will be able to give him copies of all the e-mails that he and the other guy have exchanged as proof that he has been lying all along. That's kind of pathetic too but it is the way I want to do it.

I'll let you know how things go between now and D-Day (February 5th or 6th).

[jdinasia]

Sadly, in Thailand, there are almost no relationships that do not have a financial component of SOME kind that is more actively realized than in "Western" countries. 

"Steven"

How sad are you.. Drink/socialise where you hope to find people with similar interests.

All Thais' are not money boys, in fact push the envelope a little and probably find all relationships have a financial component. Don't be putting Thais down as "moneyboys" as a usual issue, because it isn't. Some are, not all. Same as the standard situation at home.. some are tarts, most aren't. Thai boys pay back love with love, they pay back financial expectation with financial requests. Then you get just what you pay for.

Good luck looking for a partner who isn't a whore, and it is doable. Just don't look in bars. PM me if you want to discuss realities as opposed to the general run of the mill crap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice post :-)

[Ijustwannateach]

Do we have a stalker here?

If you read the thread (as you apparently haven't), you'd see that Ice was a bit on the wrong page with his comments, confusing me with someone who dates barboys- as he himself admitted later in this same thread.

Pleasant fellow, aren't you?