Business With Thais-greed-greed-greed

[MANUS]

Before you go to Phi Phi Island or even think about having a business with a Thai, read the website for Karma bar on PhiPhi. I have been to that bar many times and met both the owners, what has happened to Jeff is a shame, it was a great bar and he workd very hard to keep it like that. I have met his partner AJ and found him to be nice but off the mark as far as knowing how to run a business. I always knew though that they just cant be trusted! Why do the Thais always do this? Read for yourself www.karmabar.net

[davethailand]

This is not true in every case and is unfair, people should protect their interests 100% if they are going to go into a business here, many do it incorrectly out of haste because they can't bear going back to whatever country they come from.

I'm not saying what happened is'nt true, but there are always 2 sides to every story.

Even with the comments made by the thai its clear that Jeffs interests were not protected and he has probably and unfortunatly lost all cash etc.

[Pudgimelon]

I always knew though that they just cant be trusted! Why do the Thais always do this?

Why does one guy's personal experience with a particular PERSON translate into a universal trait of a particular ethnicity?

Seems to me like that guy got screwed over by a bad business partner. Also seems to me that he foolishly entered into a business agreement with someone without a proper partnership contract.

So flip what your saying around and try to "universalize" the actions of the farang onto all Westerners. Would you say that based on this example that all Westerners are trusting fools when it comes to business and are ripe to be exploited by "handshake deals"?? I think Donald Trump and Bill Gates would beg to differ with you if you tried to say something like that....

So if you can't "universalize" the actions of the Westerner in this story, why do you think you can "universalize" the actions of the Thai in this story??

Obviously, by this guy's account, the Thai guy was a greedy S.O.B. and emotionally unstable too. But what I fail to see is how that one Thai guy's particular personality flaws somehow get universalized to apply to ALL Thai men.

Nope, sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Please take your stereotypes home, we don't want to play with them here.

[DJ Pat]

To save everyone the pain of opening up a new page, here it is:

'Greetings everyone!

There has been a change of plans since the last posting. My partner and friend, A, or AJ as he is also known, and I have finally had a major falling out over Karma and the running of it. I have been wrongly accused, childishly threatened and have had no choice but to leave Karma. Relations between us had reached such a low point that all reasonableness was lost and communication degenerated into petty bickering, slander against my country and rehearsed threats of physical violence and blackmail on his part. I have not only lost a friend of 4+ years, but I’ve also lost the bar, which I worked so hard to create- because of greed and lack of understanding! ‘A’ and I, have always had our problems, I suppose that’s the nature of having a partnership, especially when cultures collide. The one underlying fear in doing business as a ‘farang’ (foreigner) in this country is that at the end of the day, unless proper precautions are taken-and none were- we have no rights. It can all be taken from us simply, and without much fuss. How can someone respond to the ‘this is my island, this is my country, you *! off’ speech? And all within 3 months of an amicable parting of two business partners. Trust should be earned, not demanded as it is on so many occasions here. A trusting handshake between so-called friends based on mutual respect apparently led to a kind of familiarity, which in the end bred contempt and greed. His lack of business acumen and forethought lead to a misunderstanding (as it usually did) which then exploded into bursts of childish rants and illogical thoughts. Emotional outbursts as a disguised power play,an attempt to control or punish me cloaked in the form of hurt feelings and anger.

Some of you know the bar personally, and some have been more than just a patron, you’ve been a part of the family, so none of this should come as a surprise. This news is probably not very shocking for most people, rather expected.

Needless to say, I will not be involved in any party on the 1st of November. There is not much for celebration and as far as I am concerned, Karma has left the island! The management of it and its remaining time has become tacky and clichéed. Any use of the name by others on the island are blatant copies.

I deeply apologize for the short notice for those of you planning a vacation around our party. I have received many correspondences from friends planning on returning and I appreciate the sentiments.

On a positive note! It has been a magnificent few years. I was handed an opportunity that I never could have imagined. This island and these people gave me a wonderful chance to fulfil a dream and live the life that I thought was only deserving of others. For that, I am forever in debt. I would like to say thank you to everyone that has made this dream come true, to everyone that walked on our sand or entered our hearts. Karma brought everyone together; it was a gateway to other nations and other cultures. I have gained more experience and friendships than I ever thought possible. My memories of Karma will always be positive because of the vast majority of friends I’ve made and that can never be taken from me.

You may contact us directly if you have anything to say or questions that you would like answered. This site has been updated to include the most recent pictures of the bar and of PhiPhi. Read on and thank you for the memories!!

We’ve finally managed to find a place to store some of the wonderful memories of the bar since it’s opening November 2001 as well as some useful information about Phi Phi Island. Enjoy the pictures and feel free to comment in our guestbook – particularly if you have a website with pictures as well!

For those of you who haven’t been around in a while, let us update you on the past three years. Karma has played host for some fun and exciting events, check out the pictures! The Lazy Masquerade was held the first of August 2003, guests were invited and asked to make their own mask for the party – it was a great turnout and people came up with some very creative ideas! Speaking of creative…. September 1, 2003 saw a lot of flair and hilarity as guests went crazy at the Gender Bender – the pictures say it all!

In just over one year, Karma has hosted TWO weddings presided over by Karma’s very own Reverend Jeff – believe it!! Simon and Wanna met at the bar in 2002 and were married the following February, after moving to Belgium they returned to Karma in April 2004 with their BEAUTIFUL baby girl, Yanna. Wow, a Karma Baby!! We were overjoyed to see the new family and delighted to hear that they will be back in Thailand permanently as of September! The second wedding took place after Chantelle accepted Peter’s UNDERWATER(!) marriage proposal. This couple from Holland were married in May. The best of luck to everyone!

As usual on Phi Phi, good friends come and go, some grace us for a short while and others practically move in! Sadly, we have had to say goodbye to a few individuals that were very much a part of our family. Our dear friend Ingemar passed away in January 2002 and is remembered every year at a special memorial and fireshow. Karma’s beloved dogs Simon and Chichi both passed away this year and are missed very much! We were heartened after Simon’s passing to hear that a certain lady on the island had a litter of three puppies that looked surprisingly like our dear friend. The many cats are fine and multiplying!!

Our nightly Fireshows have become even more spectacular! It is Impossible to describe them without being there, so take a look at the pictures and video clip and send yours in if you have them. Recently Phi Phi hosted a Fireshow contest and Karma is very proud to announce that Kiang and Boy walked away with First and Second prizes!

Enjoy the site and sign the guestbook when your finished!

Love to all, KARMA

[DJ Pat]

‘this is my island, this is my country, you *! off’

That sounds like a racist rant that should be reported to the authorities.

[Sansai Sam]

While Pudgimelon makes some valid points I must say that if I had a baht for every time I heard a Thai get angry and say...."This is my country, you get out!" I would be a rich man. Its a good thing we don't do the same in the US or the population would be significantly lower.

[Pudgimelon]

get angry and say...."This is my country, you get out!".... ....Its a good thing we don't do the same in the US or the population would be significantly lower.

Buwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Buwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

*gasp for breath*

Buwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Buwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Oh good God, that's got to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

You must have lived a very sheltered life in America if you think that America's don't behave this way all the time. Where do you think the KKK gets all it's members from? They certainly don't IMPORT them!

Open up any debate on immigration, bi-lingual education, or ethnic/religious profiling of Muslim Americans and you'll see this "it's my country, blindly accept it or get out!" attitude rise up in all it's American glory.

Thais aren't the only ones guilty of xenophobic jingonism, sadly, that seems to be a fairly universal human trait.

[DJ Pat]

"it's my country, blindly accept it or get out!" attitude rise up in all it's American glory.

George Bush has re-created that almost, just watch Fareinheit 911

[pantarei]

You must have lived a very sheltered life in America if you think that America's don't behave this way all the time.  Where do you think the KKK gets all it's members from?  They certainly don't IMPORT them!

“Once America's preeminent terrorist organization, the Ku Klux Klan today is a fragmented and amorphous collection of independent groups and individuals, constantly squabbling over diminishing memberships and limited resources.”

“Estimated size: No more than a few thousand, organized into slightly more than 100 units.”

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/KKK.asp?xpicked=4&item=18

Source: Anti Defamation League (ADL), a Jewish organization unlikely to underestimate the danger posed by the KKK.

Thank you for yet another objective, thoughtful, and well-documented post.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

This is not true in every case and is unfair, people should protect their interests 100% if they are going to go into a business here, many do it incorrectly out of haste because they can't bear going back to whatever country they come from.

I'm not saying what happened is'nt true, but there are always 2 sides to every story.

Even with the comments made by the thai its clear that Jeffs interests were not protected and he has probably and unfortunatly lost all cash etc.

I agree. There's two sides to every story, and this thread is going bear pit already. It is closed pending the other side of the story or a modicum of rationality coming into the arguement.