Hubby Sending Wages Back Home To Los

[miayai]

I've been living in Europe with Thai hubby and young son for a year now (after 2 years in Thailand). Hubby got job as chef for last few months and recently started sending money to his folks back home (450euro in the last 3 weeks!). I'm quite annoyed but feel guilty for feeling this way. However, I supported him from when we first met until we got to Europe where my family supported us until he got a job. He hasn't paid back my parents for his plane ticket here, doesn't even like my mother in fact.

His parents own their own 3 bedroom house and while they aren't minted they're comfortable by thai standards (but uneducated).. oh and they spend 40% of their monthly income on beer/alcohol. I'm extremely annoyed because I'm sure the money he's sending won't be spent on something useful or invested so that it can make them more money and while we're getting by here I want to be able to buy a house at some stage but Hubby's plans don't go further than next week. How do I deal with this without offending his family? There's more to the story but that's my predicament at the moment.

Any input/advice is very welcome.

MiaYai

[Dissolution]

You can't.

Children supporting their parents is an accepted norm, and ingrained into every child. Trying to break him of this would be fighting an uphill battle, and might even damage your own relationship with him. Plans for the future is also not encouraged, by this same culture/society.

Congrats, you now have an authentic Thai marriage experience.

My advice would be to try to understand the culture more. I'd say you should've probably done this before you decided to get married, but alas. Best you can do right now is to just roll with it.

[Ave]

Dissolution is right. And, unless you are his actual - Thai family - don't expect any money back either. You will never see it again. It took me a long time to accept it because the amount I lent the guy I was with was quite high. In the end I just considered it like an investment.

The most important thing in my opionion is avoid begrudging and be grateful for the love you share with him. Plus the fact that he is working and he's able to save money is a good thing already!

All the best

[Goinghomesoon]

I agree you can't expect him to stop sending money, but it sounds like you need a budget. Can you sit down and plan your funds so that he meets his family obligations in Thailand but also factors in savings for your future together (a home, education costs for your child, retirement fund etc) plus any debts owed (your parents). Maybe put this money into a joint account where you both have to sign to make a withdrawal?

[garro]

I suppose that you could say all this to him. I do believe it is a cultural thing but your culture should also be respected -especially since you are now living in your country. You know your husband better than somebody on an anonymous forum. So you probably need to decide how much you are willing to take and what you are going to do about it. I would think about this carefully before you confront your husband (if you confront him) as you don't want to say something you might regret later on.

Best of luck.

[taxexile]

I'm quite annoyed but feel guilty for feeling this way. However, I supported him from when we first met until we got to Europe where my family supported us until he got a job. He hasn't paid back my parents for his plane ticket here, doesn't even like my mother in fact.

you are between a rock and a very hard place. but dont feel guilty , you are absolutely correct to feel angry. its how you deal with that anger that will decide the future of your marriage.

you should ask and take advice from your mother , i bet she has it all sussed out.

Edited March 18, 2008 by taxexile

[sbk]

I agree you can't expect him to stop sending money, but it sounds like you need a budget. Can you sit down and plan your funds so that he meets his family obligations in Thailand but also factors in savings for your future together (a home, education costs for your child, retirement fund etc) plus any debts owed (your parents). Maybe put this money into a joint account where you both have to sign to make a withdrawal?

Excellent advice. I am guessing he assumes your income is enough for everything. What you need to do is sit down, alone at first, and make out a budget. Show all expenses, including debts, and all income, including his. Then, go through this list with him and decide what he will be responsible for, and what you will be responsible for. Anything after that can go to his parents, but of course, since its his money, he shouldn't expect to get spending money from you but rather take it from his own wages.

One very important thing, do not let this get personal, do not get angry. Too many relationships fall by the wayside due to financial problems (no matter what nationality, combine that with cultural differences and it amplifies the problem).

As for the idea that all Thai people do this, well, no. I know a couple Thai men who have moved to Europe with their wives and they most definitely do not send money back home. (Both local boys) One is also a trained chef and after 10 years in Europe saved enough money to know open his very own high-end (not Thai) restaurant there.

[cmsally]

I agree you can't expect him to stop sending money, but it sounds like you need a budget. Can you sit down and plan your funds so that he meets his family obligations in Thailand but also factors in savings for your future together (a home, education costs for your child, retirement fund etc) plus any debts owed (your parents). Maybe put this money into a joint account where you both have to sign to make a withdrawal?

Definitely do a monthly budget and work out who is contributing how much.

Carefully broach the subject of how much his parents need versus would like - there can be a yawning gap.

If they need very little or nothing, educate your husband about interest rates (which are still much higher than Thailand) go to a high street bank and open an acct that gives high interest. He can then put by whatever is left over each month into the "parent fund". After a few years he maybe able to pay his parents out of interest. This is opposed to just giving them xxx amount which they blow every month.

Also make quite clear (even if not true) that your parents will not be buying a house for you and you need to save up for one.

[Goinghomesoon]

Quote - As for the idea that all Thai people do this, well, no. I know a couple Thai men who have moved to Europe with their wives and they most definitely do not send money back home. (Both local boys) One is also a trained chef and after 10 years in Europe saved enough money to know open his very own high-end (not Thai) restaurant there. - End Quote

I agree not all Thai men overseas send money - My partner is the eldest son and supplemented his parents income for 15+ years while he was single and working in Bangkok. As soon as we announced we were marrying and making a life together - and eventually moving to Australia - they refused to accept any more money. Some of his 6 siblings are now taking their turn at helping out. Apparently they were all champing at the bit to contribute for help more but hadn't wanted to usurp my man's position as the eldest son.

Is your husband the eldest son? Does he have any siblings that can take on some of the load?

Edited March 18, 2008 by Goinghomesoon

[skippybangkok]

Then he should understand your need to "support" your family, and since Europe is more expensive, maybe of the tune of Euro 2000 a month. (which will come back to you).

Will be interesting to see how well its accepted when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Aries74]

My friend send money from US to Vietnam, when you exchange the currency it's worth a lot more. His family could never earn that much in a short period of time so it's a win situation. You say 3 weeks, if it a long terms it can be a problem.

If his family need to get back on their feet and need money it should be fine, you know the situation better than I do.

I don't want to say this but you should find out who is he really send the money too.

Good Luck.

[Sheryl]

Agree with those who advise a joint budget exercise, and in that budget I would in fact do what one poster said in jest i.e. include a remittance from you to your parents and have them put that money in a bank account for you for your son's education or any future emergency. That second haklf of it you need not go into with him. Point is, you should have the same right to send money to your parents as he does, and Thai remittances to parents are not pure charity, it is customary in Thailand for children to give money to their parents to keep on their behalf with the understanding that they (they children) wil eventually recoup this investment in one form or another.

What you cannot/should not do is try to put a stop to the seding money home, that would make him feel trapped between conflicting loyalties. But you can try to negotiate some linits on it.

[GuestHouse]

I too agree with the advice on budget and I think the advice to include payments to your parents are correct.

However I disagree with the advice to avoid conflict incase you ruin something in your relationship, you already have an unspoken conflict that will certainly grow if you do not deal with it.

I'd get the budget going and I'd include Payment to Parents under two headings: Payment to your parents (left blank) and payments to his parents (left blank), then get him to tell you how much he wants to send to his parents and put the same amount in your parents box.

A) You need to get this in the open

You need to manage finances together

C) You need to set limits on his 'obligations'.

His primary responsibility is the care of his Child, money directed elsewhere is taken from you and his child. Make him account for it.

--

And don't forget - Include repayment of Airfare loan on the balance sheet.

Edited March 18, 2008 by GuestHouse

[ThaiWanderer68]

Someone mentioned above about checking who the money actually goes to. This is probably something to consider. The guy obviously isn't used to manage "large amounts" he's now earning. That increases the risk sorry to say that there may have been a financial element to the marriage for him. There are plenty of nice ladies that get taken for a ride. But maintain a healthy aproach and give the benefit of the doubt. Too many people get paranoid about the stories they hear.

As for budgeting, that's good advice, but bear in mind most Thais often haven't even learnt to track spending very well, which is even more fundamental. Hence if you get them to try and make a budget at this stage that could well be too much, and just theory. I'd say both track your spending first, and get him in the habit of doing so. Then when you have an idea of spending patterns make a budget. Otherwise the budget could be very theoretical.

i.e 1) track your spending for a while 2) then add in the concept of income compared to spending 3) make a budget 4) compare budget to actual.

For the sending money to parents, that's a cultural lesson. You've now got an idea of where a Thai's priorities often lie. Often parents first, children second (for Thai ladies, for Thai guys less clear), spouse third. Don't fall into the trap of getting annoyed about this, but I would suggest you consider gently raising yourself up the priority list, and being patient doing so. Over time as marriage grows you should fnd yourself becoming increasingly more priority, but you need to work on it from day 1.

i.e don't confront directly about him sending money to his parents. But don't just let it pass either. You need to establish yourself (and your family) as a priority, and start developing the concept of compromise. Thai guys are often used to getting their own way from their mothers, and often expect that from wifes as well. In your shoes I would highlight to him that you would like to also give money to your parents but you don't have enough, and can he help. If he asks why you don't have enough, say you are also trying to pay the money back as this is your custom and culture. This way you have not asked him for money for the debt, but hopefully you have shown him his actions have repercussions for you and by asociation him as well. Explaining the concept of his debt to your family may be too many steps for him at this stage. Hence the indirect route you to parents, you short, could he help? After some time you can't get more direct, as you both grow.

Also the comment about tucking away money for your parents/family is a good one. Don't have to specify parents, just say family. That way you can ensure it's there for your son, parents, yourself later if need be.

Lastly in Thai-Thai relationships it is the norm for the Thai guy to take financial care of his spouse. I know Thai friends where the woman keeps her salary and he pays everything. That is among Thais. To gain respect and equal partnership, this might be worth considering. Then you give way to sharing and helping him as time goes by. If you start with the sharing, or worse still you paying everything, it doesn't teach him the value of compromise. His nature will be to sort of negotiate, so if you start in the middle, it ends more in his benefit, as you give way. Start with your own family interests and hopefully you then end in themiddle.

Be firm but by being indirect, and be careful not to be the one doing all the compromising, and cultural giving/understanding, even though you are probably better placed to adjust. It sounds like he is not very aware of western culture, so if you give too much to his culture without him being coached into giving to you, it doesn't bode well for the future. You also need to start from day1. He won't suddenly change his behaviour and cultural patterns.

Edited March 18, 2008 by ThaiWanderer68

[bina]

at the moment, anon is the one making a salary; i'm the poor kibbutznik; so:

we live off of my 'account' (in debt anyway); but he puts his salary in our joint outside account. he pays for heavy duty stuff like dvd, meat and thai food stuff, and equipment. i pay for my kids stuff, and day to day stuff. once in a blue moon he asks if he can send money to family member this or that for x purpose (yeah right...the purpose i mean)... then i usually agree, if he is the one working. when he was unemployed, the first few checks after went only to us (payback as it were); then he could send some shekels. we've supported a used pickup and will now be supporting some cows (for us and sis in law)...

fighting it is useless; budgets are impossible, he hasnt a clue . but he wants a car. i told him that he should save for a car. i know we wont buy a car in the near future (he doesnt understand that its more then just the price of the car, its insurance and money aside for break downs etc, ) but its something he wants so he is willing to save for it. (like a 'holy grail ' thing). so he is learning to count his shekels. (now stronger than the dollar at the moment yeay).

meanwhile, i send care packages to his family for kids and folks about once every few months(clothing, school stuff whatever-- mostly used clothes etc but bound to be used rather then hi/lo'd or drunk up)and mothers day and fathers day (thai) and new years we send money straight to his parents for whatever use they want. (last year mom gave it to elder brother who drank it....).

i think that he doesnt budget like me: thinking of all kinds of hypothetical expenses that could possibly happen. he is goal specific. car/ computer/house/buffalo. when we have enough, we will buy x. then we will save again.

this seems to be country thai style.

thaiwanderer gave good advice.

bina

israel

Edited March 19, 2008 by bina

[Boo]

Priority should be first to your child, then you & his parents. Budget is important, explaining the cost of your life is even more so. I did this when my husband started working & we agreed that 2/3rd of his salary cames to me for joint bills, he then sends from the remaining amount, which is his monthly budget, approx 7k baht to his mum & then uses what is left to pay for his ciggies, beer & hobbies (ebay & music mainly)

He know nows how to budget cause he has had to learn. When we first moved to Uk he was unemployed & I paid for everything & nothing was sent to Thailand, once he got a part time job waitering still nothing went to Thailand as he wasn't earning much but just enough to cover his personal costs that I normally had to pay for but since getting a very good job with a good salary then family in Thailand gets help but we (our son & me) are his first family now & his mum, brother, neices have taken second place. That imo is the way it should be. If he isn't prioritising that way & sending a lot of money that could/should be used for your life in Europe & to ease your financial burden then a serious conversation is needed imo.

Good luck with it. The idea of writing down all costs including columns for money sent to your family as well as his might make him realise that he is being unreasonable. You should def raise this, you are married, there should be no need to tip toe around the person your are supposed to be sharing your life with, there should be no taboos & everythging should be discussable if you are a partnership.

[buffcoat]

Welcome to the real world of having a Thai spouse! My wife started sending money home when she started working,I knew she would do it before she even mentioned it (whilst we were engaged).

The majority of Thai's will do this but it is impacted by the number of siblings and their relative wealth.

I personally would not introduce the notion of giving money to your parents as clearly(?) from your note you never have and this would be an obvious lie unless you can explain it as your obligation to them to repay the air ticket cost.

Obligations to family are paramount for most Thai's and they do not understand our apparent disdain for family and shoving mum and dad in the old folks home dismays them.

Trying to change his priority list may well be futile and at worst cause great conflict.Trying to tell him that you are more important then the parents is a minefield, that typical western selfishness is repugnant to most Thai's .

Personally I prefer the Thai attitude and would not want to change it since I happily cough up the readies for my own parents here and have done for years.

Finally what works for you as a couple will be unique to you so take all advice in here with a pinch of salt but I would advise you to do some research into Thai cultural standards as this should not have been a surprise for you.

Hope it all works out for you both.

[Belle]

I agree you can't expect him to stop sending money, but it sounds like you need a budget. Can you sit down and plan your funds so that he meets his family obligations in Thailand but also factors in savings for your future together (a home, education costs for your child, retirement fund etc) plus any debts owed (your parents). Maybe put this money into a joint account where you both have to sign to make a withdrawal?

Blaming each other or by keeping everything to yourselve is the starting point into marriage ...... (better not to mention those words)

Understanding culture is always important, but let's put feeling aside and look into figures. Guess is time to do a financial plan for both of you. Apart from lots of advices out there, you might want to seriouly sit down with your hubby to list down the following areas (on you and your hubby);

1) Assets - list down all your assets (home, car, stocks & shares, bank deposits, insurance cash value, investment, funds, others)

2) Liabilities - list down all your liabilities (Mortgage loan, car loan, hire purchase, bank overdraft, credit cards, renovation loan, investment loan, others)

3) Income - Includes salary, bonus, employment benefit, business income, rental income, share dividend, bank/bond coupon and other form of contributions.

4) Expenses - Includes home expenses (utilities, phone, internet, maid, taxes, home rental), family expenses (parent, sibling, spouse, children, food, medical, clothing, education, childcare), personal expenses (clothing, recreation, hobbies, personal care, papers/magazines. club membership, handphone), transport (car installment, petrol, tax, car insurance, maintenance, services, parking, public transport), insurance without cashvalue (home content, medical, personal accident, travel, term insurance), gifts & donations (vacation, cable tv, entertainment), others (income tax, cash mortgage repayment), miscellaneous/others.

Tabular to see whether your net assets positive or negative? are your out flow higher than your income?

Your need work on the following areas

a) Family income protection

Planning for funding education

c) Planning for retirement

d) Major illnesses protection

e) Disability income protection

f) Cash reserve

With the above written down, you will be able to have a clear overview on your financial situation. Next prioritize on the items (what to allocate more and what to cut down on). Set up a systematic approach towards repayment, saving, planning or even short to long term financial goals. However, the best way is to consult a financial consultant into putting a financial plan and implement it accordingly.

All the best to you!

[miayai]

Thanks so much for all of your suggestions and input, it's been very helpful and I'm very grateful for it as this is really unknown territory for me. I had always imagined that when I got married (regardless of what culture) that my husband and I would work towards our shared future rather than sending our savings and hard earned cash away. I lived in Thailand for 2 years, 1 year in his village, so I was/am aware of the culture but I guess I never really imagined that I would be confronted with this or rather I swept it under the carpet to be dealt with when or if it ever arose. If we already owned a house/car and had established careers and not both in our early to mid twenties then I don't think I would have a problem with him sending money every month but because we are only starting out with virtually nothing I'm finding it very hard to send money away that we don't yet have to spare.

Anyway, I did what some of you suggested and told him that if he wanted to send money to his family that we have to send the same amount to mine, just to be fair. This was met with a stony silence that lasted a few days but then a kind of acceptance on his behalf. In the last few days he has even started talking about our future here and buying a house, etc although I'm not quite sure if he wants it for our security or for a certain type of status.

While my attitude may be undoing decades of feminist thought I, as a woman, feel that my husband should be providing for me and our family and for us alone and when he doesn't do this I don't feel like I'm valued or appreciated enough hence the anger and discontent. I do however want to make the lives of his family easier only I guess that if he does have to send money that I want and need to feel in control of how much and how often to be able to accept this circumstance.

We've agreed (for the moment) to send a fixed sum 3 times a year and on our annual visits to buy them something of equal value to that sum that they might need or would be useful to them and make their lives easier. This year we plan to buy them a computer so they can see their grandson on webcam and we're going to pay for their internet charges.

While we've come to some sort of an agreement, all these cultural differences that need to be ironed out are still so much of a struggle!

Can anyone tell me if one day there'll be harmony and understanding in a thai/ farang marriage and that its all worth it in the end?

Miayai

:-)

[sbk]

While we've come to some sort of an agreement, all these cultural differences that need to be ironed out are still so much of a struggle!

Can anyone tell me if one day there'll be harmony and understanding in a thai/ farang marriage and that its all worth it in the end?

Miayai

:-)

Well done.

As for the harmony and understanding, well....... to a degree. I've now been married for over 18 years and we still occasionally have these kinds of issues. Some things I am willing to compromise on, some things he is, some things I will not budge and vice versa. Does it get easier to deal with these issues? yes, And you do reach a kind of understanding that some things you will never understand But, things do iron out a bit as you get to know each other and how the other thinks. As you work your old problems through, be aware that new ones will crop up. But if you have a method of dealing with these issues, without screaming and walking out, then you can come to an understanding.

That said, his willingness to negotiate and your willingness to do it in a non-angry manner speaks volumes for your relationship.

And yes, I have found it worth the effort

[Fire]

Oh boy I feel for you.

Are you and your family considered much wealthier than his family?

This may be the source of all this...

[torrenova]

I live here in Thailand with my wife and our baby. We've been together 3 years, all in Thailand and I lived here for a few years before that. We've been over very much the same ground as the OP is going over.

The issue of parental support came around a long time ago and the idea of budgeting for longer than a few weeks or a month was just a nightmare to get through to her. When she was pregnant she did very well and I thought she understood but after the baby was born, she didn't care and I had to take back all financial controls which obviously caused friction.

The general underlying problem is that Thais just don't think of tomorrow. They lead a fatalistic lifestyle where what will be will be. In reality, that actually means that if the shit hits the fan and there is nowhere to live and nothing to eat, then the extended family will chip in and assist. In the west, we sort of leave home and stand on our own two feet with some occassional assistance. We don't have the support network they have and therefore we are taught to manage our income and liabilities.

The OP needs to get her husband to understand that the order of priorities has changed. First is the baby, then the wife, then building a secure life for his new family which includes saving and then, only then, making some contribution to the Thai family, if they need it, not just to buy more whisky. We don't know his salary but I suspect EUR450 is a reasonable slice of 3 weeks' income. That cannot continue.

Following the OP's follow up post about sending money 3 times a year then she must work out that they don't need it because if they did, they could not survive for 3 months at a time on nothing and it will all disappear in a flash unless I am very much mistaken. I mean, his parents do not seem to have the money to give their son a plane ticket to Europe so likely no savings there. Therefore, it will actually make very little difference and be largely a face gaining exercise.

In fact, sending too much might cause a disaster where work stops and the parents become solely reliant upon the son ! I had my wife say that her mother who is in her mid 40's was too old to work (she now has a supportive western husband herself) and I said that 40 or so was far too young to stop work and let others support you. Heck, I'll be 40 soon !

Someone posted about him not being used to the money (or the taxes most likely as well) but he will also not be aware of just how much it costs to live in the west. The amount needed to put a deposit down on a house can be more than the total cost of a house in Thailand and not easily saved on one salary with a small child as well.

The idea of doing a budget is fine but how far can you push him to accept only a small percentage of his salary as his to do with what he wants ? Say he earns $500 then do you give him $100 and bank the other $400 for bills and savings ? I guess he'd be pretty upset at only getting 20% but if you allow him to have 50% then it will all go I promise you. Only the OP can take charge of saving and paying the bills. Perhaps in time, perhaps never, he will be able to understand but that time is not now.

The guys I know with wifes back in Europe who work usually have low paid jobs and the guy earns the household income. They often let her do what she wants with her money as it is often not very much but in the OP's situation, though the sexes are reversed, his is their only income. She must put her feet down and protect her baby's needs and those of her family. Sorry, but his family come way down the list and a lot further down as they have no immediate need for assistance.

I like the idea of a computer but they will need educating to use it and it may well be beyond them. Honestly. Perhaps there is someone in the village who can help them. Don't waste money on a top of the range one as it might not be there one day.

I hope the OP can get through this and I hope her husband is not blind to the needs of his family now. savings have to be in the OP's name only as he may not even assist if it is in joint names. This is easily achieved as he won't know what is going on. I promise you, even my highly educated japanese wife would have allowed me to make up any manner of accounts in any names because it was all in a foreign language and they trust you. It is sad and I hope one day that my other half will be able to budget but until then, I, like the OP, will have to shoulder than responsibility.

[Goinghomesoon]

Maybe you could save regularly (say for a house or education) and agree that the interest on the savings be sent to the in-laws?

That way both you and hubby are encouraged to save. Your own capital grows - good for you - you earn more interest as the capital grows and this increasing amount can be remitted back to Thailand - good for the in-laws. So by saving for a future goal you actually assist his family here. And you might feel less upset about 'your' money disappearing as it is really free money from the bank!

Not sure how you work it out once you reach the goal and withdraw the money though.

[Fire]

Even if you don't have the money now and you don't want to buy a house now. Go house shopping with your husband. Do all the leg work together. Even if you know all the answers, go to the bank together, to find out all the details about down payments and monthly payments. Then he will get a real grasp on where you stand. Talking about it and 'telling him' how it is may not be the best way. Better go do the leg work together.

The water maybe cold but there is no point to tiptoe around it.

There is nothing like experience...

[MustaphaMond]

While my attitude may be undoing decades of feminist thought I, as a woman, feel that my husband should be providing for me ...

:-)

Got that right, sister, maybe even a century!!