Beach Clean Up.

[pampal]

Every little bit of effort helps, I will pitch in by volunteering near where I live.

I hate seeing trash and specially broken glass on the beach or the street.

Count me in

[Richb2004v2]

I'm not sure what god, Buddah or even Thor have to do with it but I think that there is little excuse for littering. It seems to be a feature of Thailand that just has to be suffered, at least for the time being. What a massive improvement it would make to the country if it wasn't covered in litter.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

I tried a similar thread a short while ago. With a few positive words, but not a single one interested enough to actually do something physically. Isara is a special case, having the resources to involve local schoolkids and students. Great, but most of us don't. And I do not really want to go to Koh Chang to clean up, while my near environment is suffering.

I am willing to actually go out and pick some shit off the beach or lakeside or somewhere, but it better be near my home or recreational area, it better have a few other interested people, that can be willing to act, not just puke out ice words. Or I will just say mai pen rai, I am in Thailand, and we do not give a shit.

Sorry mods, but I get a bit tired of this. So if you need to, please remove my very bad words...

[LuckyFive8888]

I wonder if anyone has ever attempted a beach clean up or assisted in one. I live close to three beaches in Ban Chang and visit them a couple of times per week. I ride my mountain bike to them a few times per week and some times go there to eat or just relax with my wife. The beaches themselves are in general a complete mess. They are strewn with plastic waste and mess. There are always a lot of people there playing in the sea and having picnics but they seem obviously oblivious to the rubbish. For a while now I have wanted to do something about it but don't know if it is even worth starting. I went yesterday to survey the situation and it is quite bad. I think that it would take a lot of work. However, slow progress is better than none. There are many bins there to put the rubbish in that I assume get emptied regularly. I am sure a few hands could make some impact over time even if only a day or so per week.

I did once see a ferang man collecting bottles there. Subsequently he appeared on TV and in newspapers. As far as I know he was only collecting the bottles to return for cash.

Has anyone else attempted such a task? Is it worth starting or will so much more be washed up anyway?

If anyone in the Ban Chang area is interested in giving me a hand PM me.

i salute you... such a good idea but you need a "work permit" to do this or else...

[barky]

I tried a similar thread a short while ago. With a few positive words, but not a single one interested enough to actually do something physically. Isara is a special case, having the resources to involve local schoolkids and students. Great, but most of us don't. And I do not really want to go to Koh Chang to clean up, while my near environment is suffering.

I am willing to actually go out and pick some shit off the beach or lakeside or somewhere, but it better be near my home or recreational area, it better have a few other interested people, that can be willing to act, not just puke out ice words. Or I will just say mai pen rai, I am in Thailand, and we do not give a shit.

Sorry mods, but I get a bit tired of this. So if you need to, please remove my very bad words...

Can you really blame some people. Just think for a moment. 99% of the trash is down to the Thais. Very few care about their environment and based on their hierachy system nearly all will see it as not their job to clean up. ( After all Thai men usually tend to spit and pee on the streets). Some Thai people leave rubbish strewn all over the footpath. The only people ever fined for littering are westeners. Usually the only people who want to or are prepared to fix the problem are westeners. The Thais join in after the event as to not lose too much face letting a westener cleaning up their country. Its obvious, a westener living on or near a beach/park would want it cleaned and would be prepared to instigate the clean up.They have a vested interest.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

LuckyFive8888,

In principle you are right of course, you need a work permit even for volontary work. And strictly speaking, cleaning jobs are not even open to foreigners full stop. But I think you will not be bothered by the Labour Department for picking up some trash, even if there were some talk about the volonteers helping out after the tsunami needing WPs, this was very quickly doused, and common sense ruled.

barky,

You are of course also right, not only in principle, but also in practice. It was not my meaning to blame, but I do get a bit emotional and carried away at times, and I guess it came out as such. Sorry. But how can a man with my name blame someone else? I am the most guilty of all, n'est pas?

EDIT: I also realise that cleaning up is adressing the symptom, not the root cause. I have talked more about this in a previous thread, and Isara is probably much more on the ball than me regarding the whole issue. So I should probably stay with less demanding topics in the future.

On a lighter note, I shall soon launch a new thread that has nothing to do with the environment, so watch this space for some lighthearted entertainment (hopefully, it will depend on you lot to provide it).

Edited March 25, 2008 by MeaMaximaCulpa

[LuckyFive8888]

EDIT: I also realise that cleaning up is adressing the symptom, not the root cause. I have talked more about this in a previous thread, and Isara is probably much more on the ball than me regarding the whole issue. So I should probably stay with less demanding topics in the future.

On a lighter note, I shall soon launch a new thread that has nothing to do with the environment, so watch this space for some lighthearted entertainment (hopefully, it will depend on you lot to provide it).

spot on!

so why don't you/we just donate trash cans and "no litter" signs instead of cleaning what has been already littered there?

[JetsetBkk]

who are you to tell them not to try? perhaps they dont require advice from someone who has given up.

I haven't given up - I haven't even considered starting. What's needed is 2 or maybe 3 generations exposed to a "Keep Thailand Tidy" campaign - just like the one that was started in the UK in the 60's and partially government funded.

And just to keep this thread up to date:

Sakoo OrBorTor: ‘no action’ on Nai Thon dumping

NAI THON: More than a month after being given photographs showing a truck belonging to Vasi Construction Co Ltd dumping trash near Nai Thon Beach, Sakoo Tambon Administration Organization (OrBorTor) say they cannot press charges because nobody has been caught in the act.

The photos were sent to the Gazette in January by a concerned reader. The site is about 200 meters from Nai Thon Beach and about four kilometers from Sakoo OrBorTor offices.

Venich Thammawong, chief of Sakoo OrBorTor Public Health department, on February 25 told the Gazette, “Even though we have evidence, we did not catch them in the act, so if we accuse them of dumping they could deny it.

“We keep inspecting the area and waiting to catch someone dumping there, but we’ve never caught them,” he added.

K. Venich said that he believes more than one company has been dumping trash at the site. “We can’t do anything for now except wait to catch them at the scene,” he said.

“It doesn’t matter whose land it is because dumping trash, or even creating a dump on your own land without permission, is illegal because it affects the health of the local community,” he added.

Despite repeated attempts, by the Gazette, to hear their side, Vasi Construction has continually declined to comment.

Finally, on March 10, Sakoo OrBorTor chairman Tawik Kuanun told the Gazette, “We will fence the site off with barbwire in the next three days.”

On the same day, K. Venich told the Gazette, “I have been going back and checking the dump site and the trash pile there is getting smaller.”

The Gazette has yet to learn of any further action being taken by Sakoo OrBorTor.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.as...8&display=1

[Richb2004v2]

I have decided to resurrect this old thread to update my 'Beach Clean up project'.

After starting this topic a while ago I did nothing for some time, until three weeks ago when I decided to take action. I headed to the beach on my bike with a couple of black bin bags and some gloves. The area was disgusting. For three days I filled two bags per day and made a bit of progress. On the fourth day it looked worse than the first and I contemplated giving up. However on this day a local stall keeper started helping me and has done every day since. We only collect two or three bags per day but already the 200m stretch of beach is almost clear. We have had occasional help from Thais but nothing really. We both talk to the Thais present on the beach and try to explain what we are doing. They are all very supportive, at least verbally. The amount and assortment of garbage is incredible, with dozens of flip flops and toothbrushes and lighters, as well as light bulbs and just about everything else.

Although we are on top of this 200m stretch the other 90% of the beach is still under a blanket of crap. I leave Thailand for four weeks soon, but when I return I will make a bigger effort and try to recruit from the local bars as suggested by someone here.

I would have added a blog but that function does not seem to work any more.

Here are a few before and after pictures

NamRinafter1.bmp

NamRinafter2.bmp

NamRinafter3.bmp

NamRinafter4.bmp

NamRinbefore1.bmp

NamRinbefore2.bmp

NamRinbefore3.bmp

[desertrat]

Even Heracles could not help. I have a friend from CA, who really worries me, he tries to keep Pattya beaches clean, and I worry how distressed he gets, afet a days cleaning, next day it's the same or worse.

"Are they dumping stuff at sea ?" he asks me.

My response is "They are dumping it anywhere and everywhere, just ride around Pattaya and outskirts"

[klikster]

I suggest that everyone do something about it, rather than sitting on your fat farang ass and complaining about it.

Why is your contempt directed at farangs in a thread where a farang is trying to organize an effort to clean up your country.

[davejonesbkk]

I suggest that everyone do something about it, rather than sitting on your fat farang ass and complaining about it.

Why is your contempt directed at farangs in a thread where a farang is trying to organize an effort to clean up your country.

What didn't you know that garbage and littering didn't exist until we got here?

[Richb2004v2]

I suggest that everyone do something about it, rather than sitting on your fat farang ass and complaining about it.

Why is your contempt directed at farangs in a thread where a farang is trying to organize an effort to clean up your country.

What didn't you know that garbage and littering didn't exist until we got here?

I can't imagine how a beach could be dirtier without folk actually bringing their waste from home and dumping it on the beach. If littering had been in the Olympics I'm sure the Thais would have been on the podium.

[JetsetBkk]

I suggest that everyone do something about it, rather than sitting on your fat farang ass and complaining about it.

Why is your contempt directed at farangs in a thread where a farang is trying to organize an effort to clean up your country.

What didn't you know that garbage and littering didn't exist until we got here?

I can't imagine how a beach could be dirtier without folk actually bringing their waste from home and dumping it on the beach. If littering had been in the Olympics I'm sure the Thais would have been on the podium.

Strange remark from the Original Poster! Have you finally seen the light? Or don't you care that you are fighting against generations of Thai mentality that - now, wrongly - assumes that anything thrown away will disappear after a few days? (Banana leaves vs. plastic non-biodegradable bags)

I ALWAYS take away every bit of paper, plastic, glass and uneaten food that I have left at the end of a trip to the beach. I watch as Thais leave their plastic bags full of polystyrene, Chang beer bottles, etc., on the sand or half buried.

I watch as Thais riding pillion on bikes throw plastic bags full of rubbish to the side of the road. Sometimes I even blast my horn at them out of sheer annoyance, but what's the point? The vast majority simply don't care. It's not their job to pick up rubbish, it's not even in their psyche to take it home.

[Richb2004v2]

I suggest that everyone do something about it, rather than sitting on your fat farang ass and complaining about it.

Why is your contempt directed at farangs in a thread where a farang is trying to organize an effort to clean up your country.

What didn't you know that garbage and littering didn't exist until we got here?

I can't imagine how a beach could be dirtier without folk actually bringing their waste from home and dumping it on the beach. If littering had been in the Olympics I'm sure the Thais would have been on the podium.

Strange remark from the Original Poster! Have you finally seen the light? Or don't you care that you are fighting against generations of Thai mentality that - now, wrongly - assumes that anything thrown away will disappear after a few days? (Banana leaves vs. plastic non-biodegradable bags)

I ALWAYS take away every bit of paper, plastic, glass and uneaten food that I have left at the end of a trip to the beach. I watch as Thais leave their plastic bags full of polystyrene, Chang beer bottles, etc., on the sand or half buried.

I watch as Thais riding pillion on bikes throw plastic bags full of rubbish to the side of the road. Sometimes I even blast my horn at them out of sheer annoyance, but what's the point? The vast majority simply don't care. It's not their job to pick up rubbish, it's not even in their psyche to take it home.

I fully understand the root of the problem is the Thai people themselves. I have also seen the Thais discard their rubbish where every they happen to be at the time. Last week my friend and I talked to a bunch of Thais in both English and Thai and explained to them what we were doing and the benefits. They seemed to take it all in. The whole time there was another group behind us, that whilst not talking did seem to be listening to us. A few minutes later they got up and left with their bottles etc still on the floor behind them. You can't believe how frustrating this is.

But, there are positives. The stall holder that helps me complained that none of the other stall holders do anything, even directly outside their stalls. Last week the one next door came out and started cleaning his area. We have also had Thais come across and put their rubbish in our bags as we walk along. I think the longer we keep doing it the more Thais will see and hopefully learn. As far as litter is concerned the Thais are disgustingly filthy, but its just a matter of education as with most problems here. That education has to start somewhere. Its not going to come from within so it might as well start with us.

[klikster]

I suggest that everyone do something about it, rather than sitting on your fat farang ass and complaining about it.

Why is your contempt directed at farangs in a thread where a farang is trying to organize an effort to clean up your country.

What didn't you know that garbage and littering didn't exist until we got here?

I can't imagine how a beach could be dirtier without folk actually bringing their waste from home and dumping it on the beach. If littering had been in the Olympics I'm sure the Thais would have been on the podium.

Strange remark from the Original Poster! Have you finally seen the light? Or don't you care that you are fighting against generations of Thai mentality that - now, wrongly - assumes that anything thrown away will disappear after a few days? (Banana leaves vs. plastic non-biodegradable bags)

I ALWAYS take away every bit of paper, plastic, glass and uneaten food that I have left at the end of a trip to the beach. I watch as Thais leave their plastic bags full of polystyrene, Chang beer bottles, etc., on the sand or half buried.

I watch as Thais riding pillion on bikes throw plastic bags full of rubbish to the side of the road. Sometimes I even blast my horn at them out of sheer annoyance, but what's the point? The vast majority simply don't care. It's not their job to pick up rubbish, it's not even in their psyche to take it home.

I fully understand the root of the problem is the Thai people themselves. I have also seen the Thais discard their rubbish where every they happen to be at the time. Last week my friend and I talked to a bunch of Thais in both English and Thai and explained to them what we were doing and the benefits. They seemed to take it all in. The whole time there was another group behind us, that whilst not talking did seem to be listening to us. A few minutes later they got up and left with their bottles etc still on the floor behind them. You can't believe how frustrating this is.

But, there are positives. The stall holder that helps me complained that none of the other stall holders do anything, even directly outside their stalls. Last week the one next door came out and started cleaning his area. We have also had Thais come across and put their rubbish in our bags as we walk along. I think the longer we keep doing it the more Thais will see and hopefully learn. As far as litter is concerned the Thais are disgustingly filthy, but its just a matter of education as with most problems here. That education has to start somewhere. Its not going to come from within so it might as well start with us.

Richb,

I really appreciate what you are doing even though it's not "my" beach. I had a situation for a year where I lived on a lovely remote beach. Fine sand, clean water, good neighbors .. except for one.

I tried to organize some of the local kids and pay them a nominal sum. I just couldn't get it done.

Meanwhile, my neighbor ran a small guesthouse. His manner of trash and rubbish disposal consisted of dragging it onto the beach, and/or burying it in a nearby natural area of the beach. Finally, he resorted to tossing much of his castoff building materials onto the beach and having one of the locals with a tractor and blade just scrape sand over it.

Sad day when I couldn't take it any longer and moved away.

A lot of the rubbish found at the waterline came from fishing boats. Not much that can be done about that.

[Richb2004v2]

Richb,

I really appreciate what you are doing even though it's not "my" beach. I had a situation for a year where I lived on a lovely remote beach. Fine sand, clean water, good neighbors .. except for one.

I tried to organize some of the local kids and pay them a nominal sum. I just couldn't get it done.

Meanwhile, my neighbor ran a small guesthouse. His manner of trash and rubbish disposal consisted of dragging it onto the beach, and/or burying it in a nearby natural area of the beach. Finally, he resorted to tossing much of his castoff building materials onto the beach and having one of the locals with a tractor and blade just scrape sand over it.

Sad day when I couldn't take it any longer and moved away.

A lot of the rubbish found at the waterline came from fishing boats. Not much that can be done about that.

Yes, its very sad. Some days I dispare with the Thais. Its like living in a nation of badly behaved children or simpletons. Thats why I decided to do something about it, otherwise I would just be moaning, as I am now,

[dumball]

I think you should realise by now you are beating your head against a brick wall , no matter how commendable your deeds , all you are likely to get out of this is an improvement in your general physical health , mentally you could become a basket case . "Whilst you velucifer to light your pipe , smile boys that's the style " , the Thais behind will still be dropping their garbage , the second they find no use for what is in their hand(S) it is dropped like a hot potato , no matter if you provide a thousand bins on the beach . They are inveterate litter bugs and also too lazy to walk half a meter to put garbage in a bin with ten huge signs requesting they do so FOR THEIR BENEFIT and the safety of their children(broken glass) . On trains with bins provided , they just throw everything out of the window without a care for where it ends up because that is the easiest thing to do . Now if you were to compensate them for their good deed-----but then , that would require a whole new thread to discuss 'Greed versus cleanliness'.

[Richb2004v2]

I think you should realise by now you are beating your head against a brick wall , no matter how commendable your deeds , all you are likely to get out of this is an improvement in your general physical health , mentally you could become a basket case . "Whilst you velucifer to light your pipe , smile boys that's the style " , the Thais behind will still be dropping their garbage , the second they find no use for what is in their hand(S) it is dropped like a hot potato , no matter if you provide a thousand bins on the beach . They are inveterate litter bugs and also too lazy to walk half a meter to put garbage in a bin with ten huge signs requesting they do so FOR THEIR BENEFIT and the safety of their children(broken glass) . On trains with bins provided , they just throw everything out of the window without a care for where it ends up because that is the easiest thing to do . Now if you were to compensate them for their good deed-----but then , that would require a whole new thread to discuss 'Greed versus cleanliness'.

I have finally hung up my cleaning gloves.

After a few months at this task it has beaten me.

Today I peddled to the beach again, but this time I just took a look at todays new layer of garbage and turned round and peddled back home. I have, I think, figured the situation out, and realized it is beyond me intervention. I originally thought it was a case of educating the Thais to use the available bins. Its more than this. I now understand that the Thais will never put their garbage in the bin. I have watched them. Even when the empty bin is only six feet away they will not put it in the bin as a matter of principle. They believe that it is not their job. It is the job of a cleaner. They may put it all in a plastic carrier bag and leave it six feet from the bin, but there is no way they will actually put it in the bin. I have never seen a Thai put their rubbish in the bin. So no matter what I say to them or demonstrate they believe that it is not their job. This is my theory anyway.

The other problem is even more difficult to rectify. The women that work as cleaners of the beach are exasperating the problem. They do collect some of the plastic bags left by the Thais and put them in the bin, or by the bin. The other litter that is not in bags or too far from the bin is simply swept directly from the concrete grassed area onto the beach. This is why each day there is a huge amount of litter at the bottom of each set of steps and a layer of plastic bags, crisp bags, plastic cups and everything else. I was thinking of trying to talk to the cleaners but I think this would be useless and not achieve anything. I doubt I can change the way they have been working from day one.

So, I have decided that its not worth it anymore. I go away for four weeks tomorrow. I might go back to Nam Rin when I return to see what state it is in. Its a shame as it could be a nice beach, but I will be switch to using Phala beach which is better but a little further from home.