Thais Scramble To Allay Tourist Fears After Recent Assaults

[ade100]

One of the problems is that some people are too concerned about $ and really couldn't give a rats ass about the safety of tourists. Even here on TV in the phuket forum these days u wont find much about the horrific crimes on tourists that happen weekly. Now u must look in the subforum to find the news and the subforum doesnt exactly stick out. I can see how a newbie tourist to phuket looking for info on our own thaivisa could easily miss the much needed warnings.

Thailand has always been and always will be an "at your own risk" place. If u choose to drive a motorbike u might die. If u choose to sleep with hookers u might die. If u walk in the jungle barefoot u might get bit by a snake and die. There are many dangers and its not the disneyland that many travel agents make it out to be. U must take responsibility for yourself if u visit. This means not tempting uneducated morons with something that they will never have. This could mean not wearing expensive jewelry or not parading around in bikinis like u are at Miami beach. Folks on here can go on and on about how its unacceptable, but the fact is that its a major risk and the right or wrong of it is irrelevant when a woman is fighting off an attacker.

The crime in Phuket has soared in the last couple yrs and I, like another poster, would urge any females I know not to visit and if they must visit I would make sure they are aware of the dangers. I think its definitely a step in the right direction to give out the whistles and info to tourist women.

I started a thread on the Phuket sub-forum a few weeks ago called Phuket: How Dangerous is it?. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence there of the violence the ex-pat community is facing on the island. Admittedly it has now dropped down to the third page. It would be great if people could keep it up to date but frankly I started finding it depressing and frightening just reading it.

I, sadly, am also advising both male and female friends not to come and visit me on the island due to the dangers. Of course my friends find this hard to understand as they still think of Thailand as the happy, smiling, peaceful land of elephants, beaches and Buddhist temples.

[Plus]

Our hosts are not all hare-brained- there was a very nice letter from a Thai in the Bangkok Post today saying that he felt like crying when he read about the stupid whistle idea...

No, but currenlty only hare brained get any positions with power. "Smart" ones are reduced to writing to newspapers and are not allowed to rock the boat for the sake of country's image. I wonder what is that image these morons think they are projecting anyway.

[barky]

Our hosts are not all hare-brained- there was a very nice letter from a Thai in the Bangkok Post today saying that he felt like crying when he read about the stupid whistle idea, and recommending that crimes against tourists be required by law to carry the maximum possible penalties, as well as some other positive pro-tourist steps.

Here I go call me a cynic I don't care but the writer was probably a bar/hotel/restaurant owner thinking he'd try to protect his earnings.

[farangmal]

I wonder what's happened here?

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_24_03_51.html

At around 4:00pm on Sunday afternoon police from Pattaya Soi 9 Station along with Sawang Boriboon Volunteers were called to a guesthouse in Naklua after receiving reports of a foreign fatality at the location.

In one of the rented rooms police and volunteers found the body of 72-year-old British national Olga Lillian Bailey. The deceased was found lying in a pool of dried blood and police suspect she had been dead for up to five hours.

[sbk]

I wonder what's happened here?

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_24_03_51.html

At around 4:00pm on Sunday afternoon police from Pattaya Soi 9 Station along with Sawang Boriboon Volunteers were called to a guesthouse in Naklua after receiving reports of a foreign fatality at the location.

In one of the rented rooms police and volunteers found the body of 72-year-old British national Olga Lillian Bailey. The deceased was found lying in a pool of dried blood and police suspect she had been dead for up to five hours.

This is covered in the Pattaya News Clippings, given her age, and circumstances, foul play is not suspected.

English Woman Found Dead In Naklua Condo............10 cm Gash In Head: Police Say Foul Play Not Suspected

[Dupont]

I would like to make a further comment to mr. dupont since he agrees more or less with the commander of tourist Police with his disgusting comments towards Farang women and the way they dress, on the beach.

Thailand receive some 14 Million tourists/year and unfortunately has seen rapes, murders and other horrible cases lately which, also unfortunate, attracted a lot of negative publicity, worldwide and right so.

BUT: France, Spain and Italy have some 80 - 60 and 40 MILLION tourists per year respectively.

Now, do you think those countries have the same 'type' of rapes and murders (in equally % of numbers) as Thailand has if some horny guys see -under-dressed girls on the beaches ? I don't know where you're from but I could take you to some beaches in Europe....

NO.

It has -also- to do with the responsibility of the Thai Government, education of the male-population and adaption to the behavior of inbound tourists as well as a certain kind of higher civilization in the afore mentioned three countries.

Of course (attempted) rape does occur in those countries also but 'followed' by murder in far, far less cases than Thailand and it will certainly not be excused by Tourist authorities like the nut head from the Thai Tourist Police

What a jerck (sp!)

LaoPo

LaoPo,

I CONCUR WITH ALL YOU HAVE POSTED.

I was thinking of all the clothes optional beaches in other countries, from NZ to Germany, there is no reason for that excuse.

All tourists of any country, MUST repspect local customs and laws.

NO NUDITY, so be it. ....... stay clad, stay safe. (maybe)

Seeing a nekkid body, male or female, is NO excuse for any assault, let alone murder.

Keep up the informed comment, posts.

Cheers.. LP

Nice balanced post pete. Pity there are not more like it.

The thai authorities are what they are and it is their country. IF they are of the opinion that less nudity may be in order (it is illegal after all) it is their opinion and they are entitled to it without being called

arsehollls, jerkks and nuts!

They never excused any rape or murder and holding this opinion amongst a host of others does not make you a supporter of rape and murder.

There is a tendency amongst posters on here to tottally ride roughshod over opinions that are not fashinable amongst some of the more left leaning western nations.

I find the comment of them adapting to us incredible, but he is entitled to it and not taking any abuse for his opinions. I do actually agree with a lot of his posts and indeed much of this one. Its the venem that has arisen against the Thai Authorities that brought me in.

At the end of the day this has come about following a heinous crime that we are all shocked by. For one group of posters to abuse another group for their proposals is a bit out of order.

To conclude. People are entitled to be of the opinion that less nudity would inflame less sexual passion. Right or wrong and nobody is saying it excuses murder.

[Thai at Heart]

I would like to make a further comment to mr. dupont since he agrees more or less with the commander of tourist Police with his disgusting comments towards Farang women and the way they dress, on the beach.

Thailand receive some 14 Million tourists/year and unfortunately has seen rapes, murders and other horrible cases lately which, also unfortunate, attracted a lot of negative publicity, worldwide and right so.

BUT: France, Spain and Italy have some 80 - 60 and 40 MILLION tourists per year respectively.

Now, do you think those countries have the same 'type' of rapes and murders (in equally % of numbers) as Thailand has if some horny guys see -under-dressed girls on the beaches ? I don't know where you're from but I could take you to some beaches in Europe....

NO.

It has -also- to do with the responsibility of the Thai Government, education of the male-population and adaption to the behavior of inbound tourists as well as a certain kind of higher civilization in the afore mentioned three countries.

Of course (attempted) rape does occur in those countries also but 'followed' by murder in far, far less cases than Thailand and it will certainly not be excused by Tourist authorities like the nut head from the Thai Tourist Police

What a jerck (sp!)

LaoPo

LaoPo,

I CONCUR WITH ALL YOU HAVE POSTED.

I was thinking of all the clothes optional beaches in other countries, from NZ to Germany, there is no reason for that excuse.

All tourists of any country, MUST repspect local customs and laws.

NO NUDITY, so be it. ....... stay clad, stay safe. (maybe)

Seeing a nekkid body, male or female, is NO excuse for any assault, let alone murder.

Keep up the informed comment, posts.

Cheers.. LP

Nice balanced post pete. Pity there are not more like it.

The thai authorities are what they are and it is their country. IF they are of the opinion that less nudity may be in order (it is illegal after all) it is their opinion and they are entitled to it without being called

arsehollls, jerkks and nuts!

They never excused any rape or murder and holding this opinion amongst a host of others does not make you a supporter of rape and murder.

There is a tendency amongst posters on here to tottally ride roughshod over opinions that are not fashinable amongst some of the more left leaning western nations.

I find the comment of them adapting to us incredible, but he is entitled to it and not taking any abuse for his opinions. I do actually agree with a lot of his posts and indeed much of this one. Its the venem that has arisen against the Thai Authorities that brought me in.

At the end of the day this has come about following a heinous crime that we are all shocked by. For one group of posters to abuse another group for their proposals is a bit out of order.

To conclude. People are entitled to be of the opinion that less nudity would inflame less sexual passion. Right or wrong and nobody is saying it excuses murder.

And if we believe by making society more puritanical it will in some way prevent rape one only has to look at the stats that show a more sexually liberal society leads to less.

The issue is not nudity, pornography or spaghetti string tops, it is stigmatising it as though it is naughty or dirty and a lack of respect/equality for women that creates seemingly random acts of rape.

It is for Thai/All men to change their attitudes not women to live in fear.

[LaoPo]

Nice balanced post pete. Pity there are not more like it.

The thai authorities are what they are and it is their country. IF they are of the opinion that less nudity may be in order (it is illegal after all) it is their opinion and they are entitled to it without being called

arsehollls, jerkks and nuts!

They never excused any rape or murder and holding this opinion amongst a host of others does not make you a supporter of rape and murder.

There is a tendency amongst posters on here to tottally ride roughshod over opinions that are not fashinable amongst some of the more left leaning western nations.

I find the comment of them adapting to us incredible, but he is entitled to it and not taking any abuse for his opinions. I do actually agree with a lot of his posts and indeed much of this one. Its the venem that has arisen against the Thai Authorities that brought me in.

At the end of the day this has come about following a heinous crime that we are all shocked by. For one group of posters to abuse another group for their proposals is a bit out of order.

To conclude. People are entitled to be of the opinion that less nudity would inflame less sexual passion. Right or wrong and nobody is saying it excuses murder.

.........................................

I've withdrawn my comments.

Withdrawn, out of respect for the parents of the girl.

Dupont, I suspect you have no daughter/children, otherwise you wouldn't comment like above.

LaoPo

[Thai at Heart]

Nice balanced post pete. Pity there are not more like it.

The thai authorities are what they are and it is their country. IF they are of the opinion that less nudity may be in order (it is illegal after all) it is their opinion and they are entitled to it without being called

arsehollls, jerkks and nuts!

They never excused any rape or murder and holding this opinion amongst a host of others does not make you a supporter of rape and murder.

There is a tendency amongst posters on here to tottally ride roughshod over opinions that are not fashinable amongst some of the more left leaning western nations.

I find the comment of them adapting to us incredible, but he is entitled to it and not taking any abuse for his opinions. I do actually agree with a lot of his posts and indeed much of this one. Its the venem that has arisen against the Thai Authorities that brought me in.

At the end of the day this has come about following a heinous crime that we are all shocked by. For one group of posters to abuse another group for their proposals is a bit out of order.

To conclude. People are entitled to be of the opinion that less nudity would inflame less sexual passion. Right or wrong and nobody is saying it excuses murder.

.........................................

I've withdrawn my comments.

Withdrawn, out of respect for the parents of the girl.

Dupont, I suspect you have no daughter/children, otherwise you wouldn't comment like above.

LaoPo

Bravo to you LP

[Thai at Heart]

.........................................

I've withdrawn my comments.

Withdrawn, out of respect for the parents of the girl.

Dupont, I suspect you have no daughter/children, otherwise you wouldn't comment like above.

LaoPo

The problem here is, that of course you are right - yes, women should not be raped, and yes, women on holiday should not have to fear assailants and attackers. And no, i don't think anyone makes the victim responsible for what happened to her.

Yet, we have to accept some sad facts about Thailand.

This is a developing nation with many problems. Anyone who lives in Thailand should know that there is a large crime problem. So, even if we don't like it - but my wife will not go unaccompanied in secluded areas, she won't take a taxi at night alone when the driver is not well known known to us, and no - the rare ocasions when we are at the beach - she will never have any less on than lose shorts and a T-Shirt. And we never go to unpopulated beaches.

What you can blame the government (and the many "LOS" proponents) is that the true crime situation in Thailand is downplayed, and therefore women like her fall victim to a crime in a country they have very little understanding of.

Exactly,

But then we have the puritans on top making a fuss about clothes at Songkran, etc etc. They are all missing the point completely about where the problem actually lies.

My wife is exactly the same in how she acts and gets about town, but just because they know about it and handle it to make themselves safe, does not in any way make it right. Women here have been abused forever, and it is a crying shame.

[LaoPo]

.........................................

I've withdrawn my comments.

Withdrawn, out of respect for the parents of the girl.

Dupont, I suspect you have no daughter/children, otherwise you wouldn't comment like above.

LaoPo

The problem here is, that of course you are right - yes, women should not be raped, and yes, women on holiday should not have to fear assailants and attackers. And no, i don't think anyone makes the victim responsible for what happened to her.

Yet, we have to accept some sad facts about Thailand.

This is a developing nation with many problems. Anyone who lives in Thailand should know that there is a large crime problem. So, even if we don't like it - but my wife will not go unaccompanied in secluded areas, she won't take a taxi at night alone when the driver is not well known known to us, and no - the rare ocasions when we are at the beach - she will never have any less on than lose shorts and a T-Shirt. And we never go to unpopulated beaches.

What you can blame the government (and the many "LOS" proponents) is that the true crime situation in Thailand is downplayed, and therefore women like her fall victim to a crime in a country they have very little understanding of.

....and that's exactly why I was so angry with the words of that nut head, the Thai Tourist Police Chief....

He should have spoken wiser words, kinder words, more protective and understanding words, being the Thai Tourist Police Chief.... other than blaming foreign innocent tourist girls for their dress behaviour....on the beach, mind you !

Blaming tourist girls for the possibility of being raped and/or worse, murdered.....

I hope his daughter -if any- will be spared what Hanna went through...what her parents are going through, right this moment and many years to come.

LaoPo

[Thai at Heart]

Exactly,

But then we have the puritans on top making a fuss about clothes at Songkran, etc etc. They are all missing the point completely about where the problem actually lies.

My wife is exactly the same in how she acts and gets about town, but just because they know about it and handle it to make themselves safe, does not in any way make it right. Women here have been abused forever, and it is a crying shame.

Songkran is a perfect example.

Puritans here have a mistaken idea about contemporary Thailand. I would suggest anyone to experience Songkran in Prapadaeng. You will see hords of young Thais behaving very similar to their western counterparts during a love parade in a European capital.

Yet - the rape statistics on Songkran especially in that area are enormous. Usually the day after the parade police stations are full with victims filing cases - and that is just the ones that actually go to the station.

It doesn't make it right, as you say. The main problem is, i believe that Thailand is seen and promoted as this "LOS" - while it in reality is a country with huge social divides, conflicts, poverty, violence and crime.

Couldn't agree more, but it shouldn't be about she was wearing a see thru top guv. Couldn't help it.

It is about respecting the rights of women, which is the biggest social divide in the country. hel_l, there have been high level politicians put away for scr....g 14 year old because of the idea that it brings longevity. Upper class wives have selection processes for mia nois because it wouldn't be fair to make the husband suffer not getting his leg over with a young bird. Poor fella. Politicians today are standing up and saying, what is wrong with a mia noi, everyone has one.

And people say Thailand is conservative. Commercial sex probably provides about 5% (conservative estimate) of GDP.

But then to dismantle it would be turkeys voting for Xmas wouldn't it.

[dumball]

Tourists bring money and maybe the opportunity for a sexual encounter. I wonder how many muggings and attempted/successful rapes of tourists take place that go unreported?

Unfortunately, Thais seem incapable of forward-thinking! It seems to be a case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Simon

A few months ago (perhaps weeks even) I'd say that you're taring them all with the same brush, but sadly now I'm closer to agreeing with you.

Put your clothes back on, stay in an expensive hotel and visit a few spas and temples is the best way for tourists to stay safe.

Well in that case, 90% of the tourists shouldn't come.

Well Thai at heart , i think that is the most intelligent answer in this thread , when are you going to commence communicating with travel agents world wide to that effect , would that be the day after your flight out ?

[popshirt]

The basic problem here in this case is of course the cultural clash between tourists from the most open societies on earth and a society that promotes even to its own population an illusion of itself as reality.

Fascinating comment. I agree with your sentiment and find it to be depressingly true even amongst university educated Thai people.

[dinom]

I agree with Dupont. These are horrible inexcusable crimes but people should do all they can to protect themselves from being victims. You can take the sergeants advice or you can chose to be offended and put yourself at greater risk while saving your personal righteousness but maybe not your life. Unfortunately deep down we are still mostly animals. Anything you can do to prevent the animal response should be considered when you are unfamiliar places.

True and so sad. In a brochure you get the picture of secluded beaches, smiling people, simply heaven on earth where you can walk around 'freely', enjoying beauty, nature and take a stroll along a beach.

In fact though you need to stay close to any group at all times, lock yourself carefully in a room at night and oh, never talk to strangers, you might even encourage them to whatever?

When we have to take the blame after we get killed why don't we all stay locked up at home and watch a movie about our dream destination? Now that's really preventing animal instincts, right?

[farangmal]

I wonder what's happened here?

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_24_03_51.html

At around 4:00pm on Sunday afternoon police from Pattaya Soi 9 Station along with Sawang Boriboon Volunteers were called to a guesthouse in Naklua after receiving reports of a foreign fatality at the location.

In one of the rented rooms police and volunteers found the body of 72-year-old British national Olga Lillian Bailey. The deceased was found lying in a pool of dried blood and police suspect she had been dead for up to five hours.

This is covered in the Pattaya News Clippings, given her age, and circumstances, foul play is not suspected.

English Woman Found Dead In Naklua Condo............10 cm Gash In Head: Police Say Foul Play Not Suspected

I don't think you can say the same for this poor unsuspecting chap. Another sucker. When will they learn?

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_25_03_51_3.html

n the early hours of Tuesday morning police from Dong-tan sub-station were called to a room in the Grand Condotel building in Jomtien following reports of an assault and attempted murder.

By the time police arrived the victim, Mr Errki Aaltonen aged 65 from Finland, had been taken to Pattaya Memorial Hospital, in a critical condition. He had been stabbed with a knife a number of times throughout his body. Medical staff were unable to revive him and he died soon after reaching hospital.

According to his Thai wife of 20 years, her husband had taken up with a bar worker some months ago on an occasional basis. This woman had stolen money, a mobile phone, and digital camera from him. Her husband made a police report but since then had forgiven the woman and taken up with her again on an irregular basis.

Mr Aaltonen ran a successful insurance business with his wife who was out at the time the alleged murderer came to visit. CCTV pictures from the entrance to the condo clearly show the woman arriving on a motorbike with a Thai male, thought to be her boyfriend. Police believe the woman demanded the victim open the safe inside his room and when he refused she attacked him with a knife. Police also siurmise she let her boyfriend into the condo room as well and he assisted in attacking Mr Aaltonen.

[Thai at Heart]

Tourists bring money and maybe the opportunity for a sexual encounter. I wonder how many muggings and attempted/successful rapes of tourists take place that go unreported?

Unfortunately, Thais seem incapable of forward-thinking! It seems to be a case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Simon

A few months ago (perhaps weeks even) I'd say that you're taring them all with the same brush, but sadly now I'm closer to agreeing with you.

Put your clothes back on, stay in an expensive hotel and visit a few spas and temples is the best way for tourists to stay safe.

Well in that case, 90% of the tourists shouldn't come.

Well Thai at heart , i think that is the most intelligent answer in this thread , when are you going to commence communicating with travel agents world wide to that effect , would that be the day after your flight out ?

If all they can offer as safety is 5 star accomodation and temples, definitely 90% of the tourists don't fit that category.

[MustaphaMond]

Hanna Backlund trusted Thailand. She trusted the ads that told her Amazing Thailand was a paradise where a walk on the beach, either wearing perfectly legal garments , or sunbathing topless as is done on every beach in Phuket, was safe.

She was LED to believe, through omission, National Newspapers that don't report just facts, but rely on word of mouth, then twist in mis translation.

Now people think and say she deserved it. One man in particular, high up in government is quoted as such.

I"ve said on another thread, I'll keep saying it I don't believe Mr. Tankae wanted a sexual encounter, he wanted to kill her.

He didn't need a big gigantic knife to rape, he needed it to stick it in her.

GET IT ?

WHY did he want to kill her is what we need to look at.

More police will not help, more TV cameras will not help.

Until we can admit that WE allowed this to happen, ourselves, for not speaking up , for not pushing, for our own laziness. ( Not you, Simon 43!!)For our own personal sexisms- we all here in Thailand failed Hanna and Katherine and how many other dozens that were blantantly, Thai-faced lied to ?

We have one planet, it's getting crowded- we have to converge and reach a consensus on the role of women in our society, on this planet, and then we have to educate this from the ground up , with the children..And we MUST lead by example.

We cannot allow any religion, any group , any custom, any Kingdom ... to get in the way, anymore.

Internet.

[MustaphaMond]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/250308_News/25Mar2008_news011.php

<<<<<<....I would introduce a bill in parliament to have all crimes against tourists and non-Thais punishable by mandatory maximum sentences. That would really get the message across that visitors are our guests.

SONGDEJ PRADITSMANONT>>>>

This letter to B Post Editor is quite helpful.

Mt Tankae should receive the death penalty, no matter what he was allegedly, reportedly promised.

As for his family receiving reward money. Bad idea , many will line up to murder under those circumstances.

[farang prince]

Murder of foreigners is now almost a daily occurrence here.

One thing that has been conspicuous by its absence on this thread is the mention of drugs, especially meth (yaabaa), and the use of them which is often a factor in violent crimes.

Thailand is awash with the drug and millions of Thais are addicted to it and use it on a regular basis.

Certainly yabah is a major factor in the increase of violent crime in Thailand. This is mirrored by the increase in violent crime in the Philippines where shabu (the Filipino name for yabah) is ravaging the young people in that country and also the increase in violent crime in the United States, where crystal meth is now the cheap drug of choice of most people between 16-24 (the group that is involved in the most violent crime in the USA). But in the case of the murder of the Swedish tourist, I think that a twisted perverted mind was the most likely cause of the murder.

[MustaphaMond]

A few points:

1) Mai Khao Beach is very quiet and quite remote and there are very few people there. The umbrella's you saw in the photo will likely have been rented from one of the food vendors.

NO, the unbrellas are at the Bungalows..Sorry but Hanna had every right to feel safe , she was lied to, mislead .

2) Farang females, tourists mostly, sunbathe topless at the tourist beaches - local females do not in fact if anything they overdress for the occasion, there's a clue there.

The clue is they want white skin and loathe the sun. There has never been any warning that wearing bikinis or sunbathing topless is grounds for butchery. Hanna was lied to, mislead.

3) Western reports of the reenactment suggest strongly that the "culprit" was seconded for the reenactment only and that the real killer(s) is/are still at large.

I'm very interested in this- what "western reports"?

[larvidchr]

What a brilliant idea, all Farangs should blow whistles and ring bells whenever they venture out in public, especially if they own a bikini, gold, have downs syndrome aso. ( remember the very sad deathly stabbing recently in Phuket of a Danish man with Downs syndrome, how low can some criminals sink!!!!! )

The Thai in Bangkok Post who was horrified about this whole mindset is a light in the darkness, I take my hat of to him

Regards,

larvidchr.

[Flatouthruthefog]

Hanna Backlund trusted Thailand. She trusted the ads that told her Amazing Thailand was a paradise where a walk on the beach, either wearing perfectly legal garments , or sunbathing topless as is done on every beach in Phuket, was safe.

She was LED to believe, through omission, National Newspapers that don't report just facts, but rely on word of mouth, then twist in mis translation.

Now people think and say she deserved it. One man in particular, high up in government is quoted as such.

I"ve said on another thread, I'll keep saying it I don't believe Mr. Tankae wanted a sexual encounter, he wanted to kill her.

He didn't need a big gigantic knife to rape, he needed it to stick it in her.

GET IT ?

WHY did he want to kill her is what we need to look at.

More police will not help, more TV cameras will not help.

Until we can admit that WE allowed this to happen, ourselves, for not speaking up , for not pushing, for our own laziness. ( Not you, Simon 43!!)For our own personal sexisms- we all here in Thailand failed Hanna and Katherine and how many other dozens that were blantantly, Thai-faced lied to ?

We have one planet, it's getting crowded- we have to converge and reach a consensus on the role of women in our society, on this planet, and then we have to educate this from the ground up , with the children..And we MUST lead by example.

We cannot allow any religion, any group , any custom, any Kingdom ... to get in the way, anymore.

Internet.

Two points very briefly:

"Rape is much more about power and control than it is about sex." Senior and very well respected female probation officer in UK.

"You must not dress like that!" Late middle aged Thai man at a petrol station near Krabi, 1995, hammering on the window of a mini-bus just departing. He was addressing 2 western women passengers, one 20's, one 40's, both wearing sleeveless backless 'tops' held up with strings over the shoulders. Both ignored him and seemed unfazed.

I mentioned this to an intelligent male tourist in Chiang Mai very recently as yet another shirtless tourist (male!) walked past, adding that it was a real No-No in Thai culture. He replied:

"Yes, I know that because I read the tourist magazines here. But how is any first timer to know in advance? No-one tells us on the plane. It's not a condition of getting the visa. There's no advice note slipped into your passport at the Thai Embassy or Bangkok Airport!"

Idea??!!

[pickel]

You can tell tourists again and again how not to dress, but 95% still won't listen.

[chiang mai]

A few points:

1) Mai Khao Beach is very quiet and quite remote and there are very few people there. The umbrella's you saw in the photo will likely have been rented from one of the food vendors.

NO, the unbrellas are at the Bungalows..Sorry but Hanna had every right to feel safe , she was lied to, mislead .

2) Farang females, tourists mostly, sunbathe topless at the tourist beaches - local females do not in fact if anything they overdress for the occasion, there's a clue there.

The clue is they want white skin and loathe the sun. There has never been any warning that wearing bikinis or sunbathing topless is grounds for butchery. Hanna was lied to, mislead.

3) Western reports of the reenactment suggest strongly that the "culprit" was seconded for the reenactment only and that the real killer(s) is/are still at large.

I'm very interested in this- what "western reports"?

Should read, reports by Westerners (attending the reenactment as posted elsewhere on this forum).

[barky]

Look, we can (as usual) go on about the whys and the wherefores and analyse this and that , rant and rave bla bla bla, (and I am not saying for a minute that airing our ideas and our outrage and where applicable, condolences, does not have its merits), BUT seriously, what can we do as an expat community to get the message across to all and sundry that Thailand, in spite of the glossy brochures and what is NOT being told to western visitors, can be a very dangerous place indeed, particularly for westeners. Discussion is good, but just discussion won't help solve the problem. Which leads me to another question. What CAN we do realistically that will make a tangeble, quantifiable difference?

The fact is whether you like to admit it or not that almost all of us realise that we are living here at the whim of the Thais; as a result, we are too scared to act, at least publicaly. We don't want to stick our heads up lest we get it chopped off (read shot) or get deported. ( I do not mean to infer that we are gutless, or even selfish, probably more toothless). Yes, so we resort to the safety that cyberspace offers and bla, bla ,bla. I can think of many possible ideas and options and I'm sure smarter people out there can think of better ones. Maybe even the real smart ones are thinking, waste of time, no matter the good intentions, or self preservation will kick in, and the choice will be to do nothing. I even don't discount the latter as an option. However, if there IS something useful we can do as an expat community by whatever means, then maybe THAT is what we should be discussing. After all, all I am saying is that just like the Thais love Thais we instinctively should be looking after our own too.

[MustaphaMond]

I'm very interested in this- what "western reports"?

[/quote by myslef ]

Should read, reports by Westerners (attending the reenactment as posted elsewhere on this forum).

So you're quoting me now as a Western source??

Thanks

Please just remember to add in your relay ....

Source FELT too he wasn' the one from observation of his behavior. Others had voiced the same.

Source qualified the observation it as suspect could have been fatigued or drugged .

And since you brought the subject up. ...

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun...mp;news_id=4116

(I've contacted to author to see what the source of this sttement was .)

"Police suspects that several persons were involved in the attack on Hanna Charlottaa."

Edited March 26, 2008 by MustaphaMond

[MustaphaMond]

Look, we can (as usual) go on about the whys and the wherefores and analyse this and that......C However, if there IS something useful we can do as an expat community by whatever means, then maybe THAT is what we should be discussing. After all, all I am saying is that just like the Thais love Thais we instinctively should be looking after our own too.

Can we get to gether and lobby for the max penalty on this???

That would be agood start and then getting legislature in to assure max panalties as suggested would be a good step 2 .

Can a small group get to the hearing and show some interest in the proceedings???

This is doable , easily. Just start mak'n noise. Ripple Ripple ! Soon ...ripples become waves, waves coalesce into reform

[MustaphaMond]

And since you brought the subject up. ...

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun...mp;news_id=4116

(I've contacted to author to see what the source of this sttement was .)

"Police suspects that several persons were involved in the attack on Hanna Charlottaa."

just in from the author of that statement on a query where he got the info,

<<<<Dear Mustava

I honestly do not remember anymore. If your investigation gives a result that can be used for media report I would be interested to hear from you when you are done.

Best regards

Gregers Moller>>>

[Plus]

Can we get to gether and lobby for the max penalty on this???

How about pre-emptive execution of all Burmese migrants? Or maybe we should castrate all muslim men.