Dramatic Cut In Visa Extensions

[LivinLOS]

You continue to cry over pennies. You say that you will "lose" 25k US by investing 75k in a baht bank account so you can get your investor visa. You say this as if it were a given. That is lidicrous. It is just as likely that the baht would go up as much against the socialist Euro currency, which is bound to retrace.

You can say what you like.. I have given the facts and figures as to why if I had done this 12 months ago it would have cost me that much.. FACT.

I also have given my well reseasoned arguments why I believe the dollar (and baht) are going to continue to go down... To just hope that it wont is dumb. I also agree that the Euro may now be overvalued (thier housing market is keeping things afloat and the word bubble springs to mind) so I am mostly out of Euro exept for a few 100k

But no matter, anyone who claims to have over a few million Euro and complains about investing less than 5% of net liquid worth for fear of losing 1% of said worth, needs to get his priorities in order.

I lost a lot of money in stocks a couple of years ago.. Made most of it back now but it was sobering.. to risk 5% of someone assets to gain a 1 year stay in a country when I have 50 - 70 years of possible life in front of me is again risky, as I said before I am frugal, just becuase I got lucky once and made money does not mean it would be so easy to do it again.

And if it did come, mark my words that your net worth would get slammed just the same, smart guy

Not at all... If you invest wisely there is as much money to be made in a falling market (again watch gold and come back in 2009), in fact as other peoples living standard drops the money you have retained becomes even more valuable and your living standard rises against the herd. Contrarian investment theory.

[Sunny Valentine]

You continue to cry over pennies. You say that you will "lose" 25k US by investing 75k in a baht bank account so you can get your investor visa. You say this as if it were a given. That is lidicrous. It is just as likely that the baht would go up as much against the socialist Euro currency, which is bound to retrace.

You can say what you like.. I have given the facts and figures as to why if I had done this 12 months ago it would have cost me that much.. FACT.

I also have given my well reseasoned arguments why I believe the dollar (and baht) are going to continue to go down... To just hope that it wont is dumb. I also agree that the Euro may now be overvalued (thier housing market is keeping things afloat and the word bubble springs to mind) so I am mostly out of Euro exept for a few 100k

But no matter, anyone who claims to have over a few million Euro and complains about investing less than 5% of net liquid worth for fear of losing 1% of said worth, needs to get his priorities in order.

I lost a lot of money in stocks a couple of years ago.. Made most of it back now but it was sobering.. to risk 5% of someone assets to gain a 1 year stay in a country when I have 50 - 70 years of possible life in front of me is again risky, as I said before I am frugal, just becuase I got lucky once and made money does not mean it would be so easy to do it again.

And if it did come, mark my words that your net worth would get slammed just the same, smart guy

Not at all... If you invest wisely there is as much money to be made in a falling market (again watch gold and come back in 2009), in fact as other peoples living standard drops the money you have retained becomes even more valuable and your living standard rises against the herd. Contrarian investment theory.

This discussion shows quite nicely why one has affluent money and the other does not.....

btw, LivinLos, as I second your ideas and theories on the currency market, concerning Dollar as well as Euro, I have not yet found an alternative currency to invest in.

I somehow agree on Gold, but would by no means put more than maybe 15 or 20% of my assets in the metal or related securities. Other than that? Sterling?? Swiss Francs?? I have yet to find a currency I trust making it better if and when the Dollar would fall substancially.

Sunny

[unbiasbob]

You continue to cry over pennies. You say that you will "lose" 25k US by investing 75k in a baht bank account so you can get your investor visa. You say this as if it were a given. That is lidicrous. It is just as likely that the baht would go up as much against the socialist Euro currency, which is bound to retrace.

You can say what you like.. I have given the facts and figures as to why if I had done this 12 months ago it would have cost me that much.. FACT.

I also have given my well reseasoned arguments why I believe the dollar (and baht) are going to continue to go down... To just hope that it wont is dumb. I also agree that the Euro may now be overvalued (thier housing market is keeping things afloat and the word bubble springs to mind) so I am mostly out of Euro exept for a few 100k

But no matter, anyone who claims to have over a few million Euro and complains about investing less than 5% of net liquid worth for fear of losing 1% of said worth, needs to get his priorities in order.

I lost a lot of money in stocks a couple of years ago.. Made most of it back now but it was sobering.. to risk 5% of someone assets to gain a 1 year stay in a country when I have 50 - 70 years of possible life in front of me is again risky, as I said before I am frugal, just becuase I got lucky once and made money does not mean it would be so easy to do it again.

And if it did come, mark my words that your net worth would get slammed just the same, smart guy

Not at all... If you invest wisely there is as much money to be made in a falling market (again watch gold and come back in 2009), in fact as other peoples living standard drops the money you have retained becomes even more valuable and your living standard rises against the herd. Contrarian investment theory.

This discussion shows quite nicely why one has affluent money and the other does not.....

btw, LivinLos, as I second your ideas and theories on the currency market, concerning Dollar as well as Euro, I have not yet found an alternative currency to invest in.

I somehow agree on Gold, but would by no means put more than maybe 15 or 20% of my assets in the metal or related securities. Other than that? Sterling?? Swiss Francs?? I have yet to find a currency I trust making it better if and when the Dollar would fall substancially.

Sunny

well then why don't you load up on yen, baht and ruupee

[LivinLOS]

PM me.. We are way off topic.. I have some good readin material you might want to consider as an overall investment approach.

The key is fiat money.. When paper money can simply be printed it is only as good as the collective belief that it is worth something. Leaving the gold standard was the beggining of the end.

FACT :: Every paper (fiat) currency not backed by finite commodity (gold) has failed over a long enough time period. EVERY ONE !! Usually governments printing it to pay for thier own spending programs and to get reelected (politicians should not have economic control) does no one else notice that the largest deficits in world history happen during the pre election year ??

Anyway this is Thaivisa.com not MyEconomicRamblings.info... PM me if you want some essential further reading.

[LivinLOS]

well then why don't you load up on yen, baht and ruupee

Yen, love too however its a restricted currency.. You cant just go and buy 500k's worth of yen. So buy Chinese stocks ?? Well the chinese stock market is in its infancy and the public companies are invariable massively debt ridden ex communist vehicles that were employment solutions for the masses first and money generators second. Also China is seen as a gold rush so early investors have made the PE levels of those strocks something I am not 100% comfortable with (I do own a hedge of China and China via HK stocks which benefit from China expansion)... Yen is artifically pegged to the Dollar and fixed.. This means thier goods sell in the US but the government stops the appreciation of the Yen that should be happening essentially China is buying Americas debt. When China drops that peg (WTO required IIRC) the Yen will rocket overnight.. Interesting day to be a forex trader that one.

Baht, Pegged to the dollar.

Ruupee, Interesting one.. I was having a discussion with a gentleman this morning with the belief that the next century belongs to the Indian and chinese markets, unless America starts to really feel threatened and closes borders and even perhaps gets warlike.. I know it sounds far fetched but loosing ones living standard to another countries benefit often creates a them and us feeling and sentiment that would be easy to capitalize on for political benefit.

However the saying is when America sneezes the world catches a cold.. The american consumer is driving the global economy and if what i believe will happen, happens, then very few areas are safe. Cold hard currency (even see the psycological terminoligy) is one such safe haven.

[phormio]

Other option I don't see mentioned is to start a business; if you've got that kind of dough you might have some business ideas that would make you money AND give you a visa. Don't forget, investing $75,000 (USD) in a condo may make you money in the long haul as its value increases over time(also forex might go in your favor in the long term - hard to predict).

I worked my ass off for many years and traded youth for money.. The plan was not to do it again. Also one of my main areas of expertise is property development but recent issues with land titles on Phuket have made me very nervous. Watching Asia Island Homes lose 200 mil approx on Samsara cause the land title office was forging thier own paperwork is a bit off putting.

As to forex rates my firm belief is the dollar is going to crash thanks to the deficits and the stock market burnout and soon to be real estate crash (only my prediction) once the American consumer stops spending money on debt he has borrowed out of his house equity at tiny interest rates (set to rise) I can see recession if not genuine depression ahead.. So the dollar goes to the dogs and the baht is unofficially pegged to it.. Holding my assets in Euros has done well for me in the last 2 - 3 years.. Tip for the next 3 gold.. I expect 1000 - 1500 per ounce by 2008 or 2009. Anyway WAAY off topic.

One other option I've seen mentioned is to invest $1million USD (40Million baht) in real estate (<= 1 Rai)for 5 years and you can keep it. Apparently you can get a PR via investing 10 million baht in a condo also.

PR for 10 mil in ??? Thats interesting.. I would consider that strongly.. Like real PR lifetime visa and right of residency ?? Anyone know more ??

The 1 mil USD inward is a bit too rich for my blood.. I live by the 'dont bring any more into Thailand than you can afford to lose' theory.. Dropping a mil would probably put me back to work.

Hearing you whine is getting old, dude. If you have as much cash as you say you do, you're crying over pennies.

25k may be a bearable sum to lose but I like to be frugal, thats nearly a years worth of living expenses for me currently.

My responses keep coming as I find it highly frustrating to hear people (married / over 50) repeatedly say "Just get a legal visa its trivial" or how open Thailands visa situation is v other countries. Both of which comments I dissagree with.

Here's a mention of the 10 million baht residency requirement but its not much...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13101&hl=Link to mention of 10 million baht investment for PR

I know i saw a different post by someone confused over the 10 million baht amount for a PR and the 3 millino baht amount for an O visa, but I can't find it - sorry.

[butt_trumpet]

Also China is seen as a gold rush so early investors have made the PE levels of those strocks something I am not 100% comfortable with (I do own a hedge of China and China via HK stocks which benefit from China expansion)... Yen is artifically pegged to the Dollar and fixed.. This means thier goods sell in the US but the government stops the appreciation of the Yen that should be happening essentially China is buying Americas debt. When China drops that peg (WTO required IIRC) the Yen will rocket overnight..

The currency in China is Yuan, Japan uses Yen.

[LivinLOS]

Of course you are correct.. The power of suggestion

[Sunny Valentine]

Of course you are correct.. The power of suggestion

Yeah, made me scratch my head as well ....

Anyway, LivinLos, you're right, it ts offtopic, please check your pm.

Sunny

[kabal1234]

LivinLOS, you have the capital to do somthing about your situation. There are a lot of people with legitimate claims to live here that are quite helpless. Stop complaining that the system doesn't suit you, instead feel fortunate that you can do something about it. Just because your wealthy, don't expect the red carpet to be rolled beneath your feet everywhere you go.

[LivinLOS]

I do realize how lucky I am... One of the reasons why I continue to point out this gap in the visa market so to speak is for those that can afford to benefit Thailand and wish to retire here but cant afford alternative or investment visa means to do so.

Also I dont expect anything other than a pragmatic approach, this has little to do with wealth and everything to do with what Thailand wants and what is good for Thailand. Does Thailand gain when it allows one person to set up permanently and bring in 1 - 2 mil of foriegn exchange each year, employ Thais etc ?? You bet you ass it does. If it was not good for the country I would not think they should do it.

Its the same as allowing 1 rai land purchases, its not a though the land is going to get loaded on a plane and exported and its not as if the process is not already happening through loopholes or that average Thais can afford land in tourist areas for private homes either. The benefit of cleaning up land deeds and allowing some limited security to farangs wishing to settle would create a boom and the proceeds of that boom paid to Thais and brought into the local economy, this is why its a prefered choice of the new Phuket Gov it seems.

[ArtfulD]

The place where I parked most of my funds is Aus...im UK based and wanted out of stirling. After couple of transactions raised my net worth over 25% in 18months by going between Aus and GBP. Now im sitting on Aus dollars for prob a min of a further 6-10 months then review the situation. Get a good rate of interest on the funds also, if investing over a certain amount can negotiate with the bank to get better than base rate, 30 day term deposit is giving out 5.4% p.a to me. Added that with % gains due to currency speculation adds up pretty nicely (only a minimal 10% withholding tax also on the interest payments). Also, Aus does do nicely in regards to gold price also. Check a weekly/monthly graph of gold prices and AUD vs the USD prices.

I think the AUD is a nice addition to a persons investments if not loading the boat up on gold. (Disclaimer: Not to be taken as investment advice all just my opinions! )

[ArtfulD]

On another note, I agree with LivinLOS on the visa annoyances...Id be going over with my folks and they can get in fine on retirement visas, I have 25 years to wait till I can...

A friend of mine who is in Malaysia and father is in Malaysian government pointed out their "2nd home program"....where there is no age restriction on their retirement visa, and its good for 5 years at a time AND they allow you to BUY TWO properties outright. It does require slightly more cash than the Thai retirement visa however. Unfortunatly I had my heart set on Thailand...but, i`ll deff check out some places in Malaysia for a look. I can only hope Thailand takes a leaf out of their book....just being able to own ONE property (without LLC hassle etc etc) would be great.

[Jeddah Jo]

LivinLOS, go and speak to a lawyer while you are here. They will certainly be able to offer you some advice on how you might obtain an appropriate visa at a much lower cost than the $25K you quote.

Alternatively, I do not know what nationality your are, but applying for a 1-year Non-Imm O Multiple Entry visa in the UK is very straightforward and costs £90.00

Good Luck.

JJ.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

LivinLOS, go and speak to a lawyer while you are here. They will certainly be able to offer you some advice on how you might obtain an appropriate visa at a much lower cost than the $25K you quote.

Alternatively, I do not know what nationality your are, but applying for a 1-year Non-Imm O Multiple Entry visa in the UK is very straightforward and costs £90.00

Good Luck.

JJ.

He can probably do that in the UK US or Australia, but most of these guys expect Thailand to tailor the law to suit each and every individual circumstance. They want extended visa's.

[LivinLOS]

I was thinking of trying brisane on a non imm o as its a 20k flight return... Had been thinking it was less liekly and would be 'home' country only after this recent crackdown.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I was thinking of trying brisane on a non imm o as its a 20k flight return... Had been thinking it was less liekly and would be 'home' country only after this recent crackdown.

I hear ( and see positive postings ) that quite a few of the TV members returned from Brisbane smiling.

[alexactive]

please leave thailand for thai people! all of u mess thailand. no one is ready to have ur comments .

[sriracha john]

please leave thailand for thai people! all of u mess thailand. no one is ready to have ur comments .

who?

why?

[huski]

please leave thailand for thai people! all of u mess thailand. no one is ready to have ur comments .

welcome to the thai visa forum, thank you for a terrific first post

[Roger13]

Consulates/Embassies generally tell you the Visa is good for 90 days

Ken

Most Visa are valid for 90 days

That means you have 90 days during which to ENTER the Kingdom.

It does NOT refer to the Length of stay !

Roger

[Roger13]

I have not read all 10 pages of postings

BUT - refering to the Original Post

- It does not mention the Country which issued the Passport.

7 to 14 days has ALWAYS been the extension given to certain

passport holders - particularly from the Indian Sub Continent.

So where was this Traveller from?

Roger

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I have not read all 10 pages of postings

BUT - refering to the Original Post

- It does not mention the Country which issued the Passport.

7 to 14 days has ALWAYS been the extension given to certain

passport holders - particularly from the Indian Sub Continent.

So where was this Traveller from?

Roger

Probably the sub-continent

[kenkannif]

Consulates/Embassies generally tell you the Visa is good for 90 days

Ken

Most Visa are valid for 90 days

That means you have 90 days during which to ENTER the Kingdom.

It does NOT refer to the Length of stay !

Roger

Yes, Roger I'm aware of that!

BUT as I said (and I meet around 5-10 people with these Visas each week or so) a lot of them are TOLD by the Embassy or Consulate (not in regards to the activation period) that the Visa is GOOD (length of staywise) for 90 days. I've had people overstay a few times because of this!

Gosh it's hard work sometimes!

Edited October 8, 2004 by kenkannif

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Consulates/Embassies generally tell you the Visa is good for 90 days

Ken

Most Visa are valid for 90 days

That means you have 90 days during which to ENTER the Kingdom.

It does NOT refer to the Length of stay !

Roger

Yes, Roger I'm aware of that!

BUT as I said (and I meet around 5-10 people with these Visas each week or so) a lot of them are TOLD by the Embassy or Consulate (not in regards to the activation period) that the Visa is GOOD (length of staywise) for 90 days. I've had people overstay a few times because of this!

Gosh it's hard work sometimes!

If all else fails, the visa holder could glance at the arrival stamp that says 'Permitted to Stay unti xx.x.xx

[kenkannif]

Yes, indeedy mate. But some people don't know a Visa stamp from a Visa sticker from a Consulate or Embassy.

Also for Thailand it generally just says: admitted until and then the date. Yes, it doesn't happen often, but I've had many people say "but the Consulate said I'd be good for 90 days on entry", but fail to mention the fact that you need to get the 30 day extension. I've also heard of the odd person (very rare) getting a 90 day tourist stamp on entry ('cos they had a tourist stamp/sticker from a Con/Emb!).

Just my observations and experiences, nowt more!

[Axel]

Gosh it's hard work sometimes!

I like this comment.

Actually a lot of people do not know the difference between a visa and a permit to stay in the country. Validity of a VISA always means the period of time until you have to arrive at the country.

And the visa is just a recommendation by a consular officer to let the holder into such country.

Once you arrive at the border (which includes airports) the immigration officer will decide wether or not to follow the visa-recommendation (yes, normally he will)

and as well decides how long you may stay. The moment you get the stamp 'Permitted to Stay unti xx.x.xx' your VISA becomes void.

If you arrive without a visa and hold a p/port that allows you to stay as tourist for a max of 30 days, you do not get a 'visa upon arrival' you get a permit to stay until....

Edited October 8, 2004 by Axel

[kenkannif]

Thanks Axel, for knowing what I meant.

I try/have to explain the Visa process to a lot of people and they've not a clue as to what I'm on about (and I even use the KISS principle). For us that know how it works it's easy, for a lot of others you might as well be speaking a different language!

[phormio]

Thanks Axel, for knowing what I meant.

I try/have to explain the Visa process to a lot of people and they've not a clue as to what I'm on about (and I even use the KISS principle). For us that know how it works it's easy, for a lot of others you might as well be speaking a different language!

Thanks Axel,

For I was one of the clueless 'til I read your post.

And how many times have you posted the same thing?

[Axel]

And how many times have you posted the same thing?

Tks phormio, too often, although I only comment if the 'mis-understanding' could lead to problems to the poster or members.

These days I only take care of my own visa whch keeps me busy enough having to change the full p/port evrey couple of months, although it is getting better. Smaller stamps, multiple visa...