Overland Travel

[zzSleepyJohn]

First the background.

I recently felt in need of a break from Chiangrai, and conscious of my carbon footprint, decided to set off on my own with just a bus ticket to Bangkok and see if I could make it all the way to Singapore overland, and back. I'm retired so I didn't have any fixed timescale to adhere to, and simply did it step by step on buses, trains and sleeper trains. Stopped one night in a very cheap places in Bangkok and Butterworth on the way south, and two nights in Penang on the way back. In Singapore I stayed 5 nights in a backpacker in Little India, where I met all kinds of interesting fellow travellers. Nothing was pre-booked except for my train journeys in Malaysia; all train journeys in Malaysia have to be pre-booked. The whole trip was a kind of adventure, and being unplanned and unscheduled, a few things went wrong and it wasn't always the comfortable and smooth experience you get with conventional holidays, but when I arrived back in Chiangrai 16 days later, I really felt I'd enjoyed my unconventional break, that I'd lived a bit, and that next time I'd like to try something perhaps even a little more ambitious.

So now I'm wondering how feasible it would be to go from Chiangrai to HongKong and back overland in similar vein. Across Laos into Vietnam and then up into China from there would seem to be one option, or another would be to take a slow cargo boat up the Mekong from Chiang Saen direct into China and then head for Kunming. The former route is probably the more tourist-trodden one, whilst the latter would avoid the need for Laos and Vietnam visas. I admit I haven't studied the details of either yet.

Any thoughts or experiences or advice about travelling on either of these routes would be welcome. How easy would it be to find an economical hotel in China, and get across the country to HongKong by train, I wonder, bearing in mind I don't speak any Mandarin, and what about the hazards of travelling like that on my own? I'm guessing that the journey would take about a week each way.

+ SJ

[ClaytonSeymour]

First the background.

I recently felt in need of a break from Chiangrai, and conscious of my carbon footprint, decided to set off on my own with just a bus ticket to Bangkok and see if I could make it all the way to Singapore overland, and back. I'm retired so I didn't have any fixed timescale to adhere to, and simply did it step by step on buses, trains and sleeper trains. Stopped one night in a very cheap places in Bangkok and Butterworth on the way south, and two nights in Penang on the way back. In Singapore I stayed 5 nights in a backpacker in Little India, where I met all kinds of interesting fellow travellers. Nothing was pre-booked except for my train journeys in Malaysia; all train journeys in Malaysia have to be pre-booked. The whole trip was a kind of adventure, and being unplanned and unscheduled, a few things went wrong and it wasn't always the comfortable and smooth experience you get with conventional holidays, but when I arrived back in Chiangrai 16 days later, I really felt I'd enjoyed my unconventional break, that I'd lived a bit, and that next time I'd like to try something perhaps even a little more ambitious.

So now I'm wondering how feasible it would be to go from Chiangrai to HongKong and back overland in similar vein. Across Laos into Vietnam and then up into China from there would seem to be one option, or another would be to take a slow cargo boat up the Mekong from Chiang Saen direct into China and then head for Kunming. The former route is probably the more tourist-trodden one, whilst the latter would avoid the need for Laos and Vietnam visas. I admit I haven't studied the details of either yet.

Any thoughts or experiences or advice about travelling on either of these routes would be welcome. How easy would it be to find an economical hotel in China, and get across the country to HongKong by train, I wonder, bearing in mind I don't speak any Mandarin, and what about the hazards of travelling like that on my own? I'm guessing that the journey would take about a week each way.

+ SJ

I've looked at similar journeys myself, the following link would be a good starting point for you:

http://www.seat61.com/Vietnam.htm

[LaoPo]

So now I'm wondering how feasible it would be to go from Chiangrai to HongKong and back overland in similar vein. Across Laos into Vietnam and then up into China from there would seem to be one option, or another would be to take a slow cargo boat up the Mekong from Chiang Saen direct into China and then head for Kunming. The former route is probably the more tourist-trodden one, whilst the latter would avoid the need for Laos and Vietnam visas. I admit I haven't studied the details of either yet.

Any thoughts or experiences or advice about travelling on either of these routes would be welcome. How easy would it be to find an economical hotel in China, and get across the country to HongKong by train, I wonder, bearing in mind I don't speak any Mandarin, and what about the hazards of travelling like that on my own? I'm guessing that the journey would take about a week each way.

+ SJ

Interesting.

If you do the second option why don't you need visa for Laos ? Is the Mekhong river Burma (and later China) territory once you leave Thailand ?

My wife (Chinese) says it's no problem to find economical Chinese hotels (very cheap!); you might have to work more with hands and feet though, explaining yourself

Stay a little longer in Yunnan province since it's stunningly beautiful, so close to the Himalaya. Traveling in China is very safe and people are very friendly.

You need to go to the ancient town of Li Jiang (Unesco list) and Li Jiang area !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijiang_River

http://images.google.nl/images?hl=en&s...sa=N&tab=wi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijiang_City

My wife just made a beautiful DVD for a friend with lots of pictures those friends took during their stay in Li Jiang. Amazing place !

Good luck and let us now what your plans are.

LaoPo

[zzSleepyJohn]

I've looked at similar journeys myself, the following link would be a good starting point for you:

http://www.seat61.com/Vietnam.htm

Thanks for that. I'm assuming that you haven't actually taken the plunge and been yourself yet. Any particular concerns that have held you back that you could share? I'm interested to hear cons as well as pros.

+ Sj

[ClaytonSeymour]

I've looked at similar journeys myself, the following link would be a good starting point for you:

http://www.seat61.com/Vietnam.htm

Thanks for that. I'm assuming that you haven't actually taken the plunge and been yourself yet. Any particular concerns that have held you back that you could share? Only one - the Wife! To be honest, I've no concerns and when I've a little more time, I certainly will do HKG to BKK overland. I'm interested to hear cons as well as pros. Provided you've got the time - I really don't see any cons about this. It wont save you money over flying, so it really seems a pity to do the overland route and not take the time to visit places en route.

+ Sj

We're actually flying to BKK via HKG in December, but we wont have the time for the overland route. Given that air fares generally seem to be much cheaper now to HKG than BKK, I think you'll see more and more travellers, certainly first timers to SE Asia, on the overland route. It seems a good and relatively cheap way of seeing quite a few places.

[asanee]

This is VERY much feasible, comparable to your SINg experience. now some remarks

1.read a guidebook: it has all the info. like the LonelyPlanet Shoestring series. Also plenty of 2nd hand ones, still usable at shops in Cmai/rai.

2.choose if you want to include Vnam or not; then you MUST prearrange visa. also to go into HKG: its China now, but as far as passpts go still OUTof China: hence to come back overland too, you need a double visa (or get a fresh 1 while in HKG, OR fly back on airasia.com from macao to BKK,= can be very cheap too.

3.you CAN bypass the lao visum (depends on your nationality: 30 to 35 US$,cash, for 30 days), by using the BOAt Chiang SEAN (=70 mins from CRai!!) to JING HONG in China, cost about 4500 THB, bookable via GINs guesthse in ChSaen: it has been told here a few times now, so use search, goes 2/week and takes a full day

4.the route via laos is also quite interesting, again you join the bekpekkers, who know all, as they read the better sites (lonelyplanet) and have those guidebooks. go to Chiang Kong (again some 75 mins bus from CRai), hop over (lao visa does not need to prearranged, take foto), BOAT to Luang prabang, by all means THE highlight of laos, then BUS (starts Vientiane-LPrabang-Border=Meng la=onto Kunming, takes 2 nights! its the famous Chinese sleeperbus= no seats, lie-down ''bunks'' only! of course you can also use shorter buses and change on this route

5.Yunnan=sothwestChina is quite comparable to high-thailand: many tourists, lowbudget, plenty of cheap accomm (hostels in China are often very good, its dorm, but they are very well used to travelling non-chinese speaking/reading gwailo), use either bus or train: train (hard sleeper=ying wo) better for really long trips. Via Kunming is a detour, but well worth it: train Kunming=Guilin, then to yangshuo, then overnight bus to GuangZhou (or train ex GLin, if u prefer), then very frequent trains and buses to Shenzhen=HKG bordr, cross over, and youre there! ample variations for the way back. combine as you feel (=much more as the plain in/out same way to SIN)

In fact I travlled across Yunnan lasty nov (plane ex BKK had free mileage ticket) and met even a couple of enterprising THAI students doing it all overland from BKK and back too!

[asanee]

Oh, to add:

the time of slow CASRGO boats taing pax has GOne; its now that expensive, but laos-visa avoiding boat only!

\the route via NORTH laos into Vnam is in fact for westerners NOT at all ''welltrodden'' as the borderpost (leading into Dien Bien Phu in VN) is only open since last year! However, the common route is Vientiane-Bus to Hanoi (takes some 24 gruelling hours), then onward: now a daily direct bus Han-NANNING in China, from where ample buses (NO direct train here) to GuangZhou, and as above: could combine as return or outward if so required. its fairly easdy to get a visa for VN while await in Vientiane: this avoids the need to visit BKK for that for you. Daily overnight VIP bus CRai-Udorn, arr next morning, take bus to NongKhai, get lao visa, cross in over, etc.