Electronic Fence Needed For My Dogs.

[merijn]

My two dogs are always running on the street as soon as I open my gate ( normally they are always in the garden )

Yesterday they killed the small dog from my neighbor and I have to look how to keep them in the garden.

It is not a problem when I’m coming home as they are too happy to see me but it is a different story when I’m leaving.

Now I have to put them on the chain or in the house until the gate is closed again.

I found on internet an electronic fence system from Petsafe which works with a transmitter wire which will be buried across the gate entrance.

As soon they pass this wire they will get a small electric choke from there collier.

This should teach them to stay inside the boundaries of the garden and don’t walk trough the gate when it is open.

Does anybody knows where I can buy this kind of systems in Thailand and if somebody have any experience which this kind of systems.

[Laughing Gravy]

I actually had to read your post several times just to ensure that what you are saying is true!!!

Firstly why don't you train/teach your dogs not to run outside. This would be the best option

Secondly why don't you wear the chain around your neck so that you get an electric shock from your lack of knowledge of training dogs. Maybe this will teach you to stay in your boundaries.

Why some people have dogs at all is beyond me. Please excuse me if I sound harsh, but there are some times when being "wishy washy' just doesn't work. If a dog was killed by another two dogs then it clearly shows that some training is required and it is usally the owner needing the training.

Owning a dog should be like driving a car. You should pass a test before you can have one.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Laughing Gravy

[thaigerd]

As soon they pass this wire they will get a small electric choke from there collier.

This should teach them to stay inside the boundaries of the garden and don’t walk trough the gate when it is open.

(Sometimes) I deserve such a collar...........

but would never ever use it with a dog.

Gerd

[jdinasia]

While I concur that training would be far better, and that the person in question is the issue and not the dogs.

Those collars are not dangerous or even painful. The basic REAL fact is that positive training works far better than negative.

So ... please train your dogs !

[ClaytonSeymour]

My two dogs are always running on the street as soon as I open my gate ( normally they are always in the garden )

Yesterday they killed the small dog from my neighbor and I have to look how to keep them in the garden.

It is not a problem when I'm coming home as they are too happy to see me but it is a different story when I'm leaving.

Now I have to put them on the chain or in the house until the gate is closed again.

I found on internet an electronic fence system from Petsafe which works with a transmitter wire which will be buried across the gate entrance.

As soon they pass this wire they will get a small electric choke from there collier.

This should teach them to stay inside the boundaries of the garden and don't walk trough the gate when it is open.

Does anybody knows where I can buy this kind of systems in Thailand and if somebody have any experience which this kind of systems.

Check this thread out:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=173759

[jdinasia]

not at all what the OP is talking about

the fencing in question sends a signal to a collar that the dogs are wearing .. it is not a physical barrier that is electrified

[ClaytonSeymour]

not at all what the OP is talking about

the fencing in question sends a signal to a collar that the dogs are wearing .. it is not a physical barrier that is electrified

Perhaps, but the advantage with a physical barrier is it works both ways.

Edited March 26, 2008 by ClaytonSeymour

[ClaytonSeymour]

I actually had to read your post several times just to ensure that what you are saying is true!!!

Firstly why don't you train/teach your dogs not to run outside. This would be the best option

Secondly why don't you wear the chain around your neck so that you get an electric shock from your lack of knowledge of training dogs. Maybe this will teach you to stay in your boundaries.

Why some people have dogs at all is beyond me. Please excuse me if I sound harsh, but there are some times when being "wishy washy' just doesn't work. If a dog was killed by another two dogs then it clearly shows that some training is required and it is usally the owner needing the training.

Owning a dog should be like driving a car. You should pass a test before you can have one. Agreed. I'd also suggest that irresponsible owners should feel the full weight of the law, including banning them from owning dogs in future.

[jdinasia]

not at all what the OP is talking about

the fencing in question sends a signal to a collar that the dogs are wearing .. it is not a physical barrier that is electrified

Perhaps, but I'd suggest these are better & I'm sure the owner of the small dog would agree.

You seem to be missing the point ... an 'electric fence' would have to be turned off to open the gate and again the dogs would be gone. The 'electronic fence' that the OP is asking about would never have to be turned off.

The problem here really is poor training, the owner seems to be seeking the fastest training method and not the best (sadly).

[ClaytonSeymour]

not at all what the OP is talking about

the fencing in question sends a signal to a collar that the dogs are wearing .. it is not a physical barrier that is electrified

Perhaps, but I'd suggest these are better & I'm sure the owner of the small dog would agree.

You seem to be missing the point ... an 'electric fence' would have to be turned off to open the gate and again the dogs would be gone. The 'electronic fence' that the OP is asking about would never have to be turned off.

The problem here really is poor training, the owner seems to be seeking the fastest training method and not the best (sadly).

The phrase you can't teach old dogs new tricks often proves to be the case. He doesn't seem to mention how old these dogs actually are, nor the breed.

I agree that it's a control issue & the OP has failed to meet the criteria of responsible owner.

[elfe]

before i would have installed such device which possibly fails anyway, i would try to teach my dogs or even chain or lock them each time i leave through the gate with the car.

i can imagine it will be not to easy to train these dogs, once used to their habit, also depending on breed and nature...

well owning dogs also means some work and effort sometimes, not just pushing buttons ;O)

[Nienke]

I'm pretty pleased to read the responses of the posters here, where you all suggest training the dogs in stead of inflicting pain and/or shock to the dogs.

At the kennel I always have my dogs running loose in the garden. But when people come, or when I go in or out with the car, I call my dogs and order them to go in the cage. They have no problem with doing that, as they know that once the gate is closed again, I or my staff let them loose again. It has become a routine.

Although, it may sound inconvenient, it's only a few seconds longer work, then when I don't have to call them. It's also safer as I'm sure all dogs are in their cage and not one forgotten under my car. Plus, that this procedure has some advantages as well. That is by calling the dogs and (temporarily constricting their freedom) the owner clearly states his/her higher rank, after all the dogs need to obey. Dogs that don't come when called or bark and whine continuously during the period in the cage are disobedient dogs.

That these dogs attacked and killed a small dog outside of the gate is not that surprising as the OP states that they are primarily in the garden with the fence and gate being the border of the territory. Being in a same place pretty much 24/7 can increase the territory aggression.

It is possible that this little dog has been irritating the Op's dogs for a while with (lots of) aggression occuring at this border. So, then when the border fell away and the dogs got their chance they tried to finish of their business with this animal. Anyway, this is speculation.

I do appreciate that the OP has been looking for a solution for his problem. But also I would not choose for an electric fence. Not only because I don't like the idea of electric shocks given to the dog 'out of the blue', as it can give serious behavioral problems to sensitive dogs, or hard-headed insensitive dogs may find out that the shock is, in fact, just that and still run out. But also because keeping your dogs inside by means of a shock collar it still needs lots of training. So then I suggest to just train the dogs through reinforcement rather than by correction or punishment.

My two setangs,

Nienke

[Smithson]

Those electronic fences don't always work, dogs can learn to run through them.

One of our pups was really bad with 'stay', so now we make her lay on the floor for about 30 min with her food in front of her before we'd let her eat. It's improved obedience all round.

[bina]

double gate: works for large animals and good for dogs

we put up a small second gate outside on my porch ... so we go out the door; the dogs are trained to stay inside unless invited out but boxer girl is headstrong and sometimes rushes the door, or pays less attention to my youngest child... and then we have a boxer vx small dogs outside problem, soooooo....

we also worked on the 'no out' (in hebrew its a fast short command) command meaning that we are going out but they are staying in; they have to sit by the door before we put their walking collars on, and then are 'released' to walk out the door with us, never before us... ; they have to wait at the second gate also, same routine.

the second gate is a one way swing gate so that if they push on it, it stays closed event though opening it is a bit incomvenient to us (opens up into the porch area).

this additional gate also gives us a 'security zone' so that if there are strange noises at night and they are up and barking, we open the door allowing them to zoom out to see who is at the bottom of the stairs, but the dogs are still held in by the 'security gate'... to be released or called back as needed.

either way, it was the best thing i ever did... if neighbors walk in, they always get the 'close the gate' and then they can come in

since then, no small dog attacks, or rushed passers-by....

but training and reinforcing and consistance are the keywords; and large boisterous dogs will quickly learn that the 'zing' of the shock is a 'non thing' and it wont work...

just a side note: in a zoo that we sent monkeys to once they use electric fencing where the animals are trained to the 'zap factor' and dont go over the boundires; this means they have yards and not cages and large areas can be used... our monkeys werent given enough training, and they just went over the boundries and into town.... what a mess... this was a few years ago but it shows the point....

pic is of nala the boxer looking down the stairs, with a goat kid sitting next to her, and one that had slipped thru the bars to lay on the stairs...

the gate worked well when we had my male large boxer also. both learned to never stand or lean on it, never tried to jump it, its all in the training... but well worth it...

bina

[Smithson]

double gate: works for large animals and good for dogs

Good post and good idea with the double gate. We go thru a similar procedure for our dogs, but if I had my own house I'd definitely do the double gate as well.

Five minutes ago a dog was screaming outside our shop. I looked up to see a miniature doberman being attacked by a large Thai ridgeback. By the time the owner got to the small dog the other one had broken it's back. It's now screaming in the Soi, dragging it's back legs around. I think it may die.

The ridgeback owner always lets his dog out, even though it bites others. He hasn't even come out of his place now to see what going on.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Smithson

[elfe]

Five minutes ago a dog was screaming outside our shop. I looked up to see a miniature doberman being attacked by a large Thai ridgeback. By the time the owner got to the small dog the other one had broken it's back. It's now screaming in the Soi, dragging it's back legs around. I think it may die.

The ridgeback owner always lets his dog out, even though it bites others. He hasn't even come out of his place now to see what going on.

and you too, sit peacefully on your computer and write this post instead of trying to look for help for the poor small dog

[merijn]

Thanks all for the reply.

First of all I love my dogs and don't want to hurt them.

But they are "stray" dogs which I took in my house when I build my house on "their" land.

Unfortunately the dogs don't listen very well as they where never trained.

The double gate sounds nice but my gate is about 8 mtr wide and so this system doesn't work.

I spoke to a few professional dog trainers in Europe and they confirm me that an electric fence can work but only if they also receive some training for this.

This system is widely used in europe and the states with most time positive results.

The system isn't harmful in any way for the dog and after some time they don't need the correction at all any more.

Edited March 27, 2008 by merijn

[Nienke]

It depends to what kind of professional dog trainers you spoke, meaning what kind of training method they use. There are still many who train there dogs based on correction and punishment. Just look at the many professional trainers in the police dog training.

Sure enough an electrical fence can work WITH training, but there are also cases where it didn't work, plus that sensitive dogs can be mentally damaged by the sudden shock that for them comes out of the blue.

It all depends to whom you want to listen.

If I understand well you adopted your dogs when they already were grown up and have enjoyed their freedom. That will certainly make it more difficult to train them to stay within your vicinities, but it isn't impossible. It just need more patience and intense training. And untill they are 100% reliable in staying inside the gate, you've got to tie them up each time the gate is open. One thing that might help in bringing back the intension to roam, if you haven't done that already, is to neuter/spay them.

Nienke

[Smithson]

Five minutes ago a dog was screaming outside our shop. I looked up to see a miniature doberman being attacked by a large Thai ridgeback. By the time the owner got to the small dog the other one had broken it's back. It's now screaming in the Soi, dragging it's back legs around. I think it may die.

The ridgeback owner always lets his dog out, even though it bites others. He hasn't even come out of his place now to see what going on.

and you too, sit peacefully on your computer and write this post instead of trying to look for help for the poor small dog

You've got to be kidding, I can't believe you wrote that.

I typed this after I'd gone to help. The owner of the small dog put it in a taxi and took it to the vet. What do you think I'd do, just sit here and watch the whole thing doing nothing. By the time I realized what was going on it was too late and the other ppl had chased the large dog off.

[ClaytonSeymour]

double gate: works for large animals and good for dogs

Good post and good idea with the double gate. We go thru a similar procedure for our dogs, but if I had my own house I'd definitely do the double gate as well.

Five minutes ago a dog was screaming outside our shop. I looked up to see a miniature doberman being attacked by a large Thai ridgeback. By the time the owner got to the small dog the other one had broken it's back. It's now screaming in the Soi, dragging it's back legs around. I think it may die.

The ridgeback owner always lets his dog out, even though it bites others. If it was in my locality, rest assured, the next time it came out - it wouldn't be going back in. He hasn't even come out of his place now to see what going on.

[elfe]

Five minutes ago a dog was screaming outside our shop. I looked up to see a miniature doberman being attacked by a large Thai ridgeback. By the time the owner got to the small dog the other one had broken it's back. It's now screaming in the Soi, dragging it's back legs around. I think it may die.

The ridgeback owner always lets his dog out, even though it bites others. He hasn't even come out of his place now to see what going on.

and you too, sit peacefully on your computer and write this post instead of trying to look for help for the poor small dog

You've got to be kidding, I can't believe you wrote that.

I typed this after I'd gone to help. The owner of the small dog put it in a taxi and took it to the vet. What do you think I'd do, just sit here and watch the whole thing doing nothing. By the time I realized what was going on it was too late and the other ppl had chased the large dog off.

sorry, but if you read your quoted post, you said that the attacked dog is outside dragging its legs behind him screaming and you think it may die. you did not say anything that anyone or you is with him and takes care

[Smithson]

Five minutes ago a dog was screaming outside our shop. I looked up to see a miniature doberman being attacked by a large Thai ridgeback. By the time the owner got to the small dog the other one had broken it's back. It's now screaming in the Soi, dragging it's back legs around. I think it may die.

The ridgeback owner always lets his dog out, even though it bites others. He hasn't even come out of his place now to see what going on.

and you too, sit peacefully on your computer and write this post instead of trying to look for help for the poor small dog

You've got to be kidding, I can't believe you wrote that.

I typed this after I'd gone to help. The owner of the small dog put it in a taxi and took it to the vet. What do you think I'd do, just sit here and watch the whole thing doing nothing. By the time I realized what was going on it was too late and the other ppl had chased the large dog off.

sorry, but if you read your quoted post, you said that the attacked dog is outside dragging its legs behind him screaming and you think it may die. you did not say anything that anyone or you is with him and takes care

That's correct, but I also didn't say I was sitting peacefully by my computer.

Your post upset me, but not as much as watching the poor dog. I didn't see the attack, but arrived just after the owner and several other ppl, who chased the ridgeback away. The poor dog wouldn't let anyone near it, as it was in so much pain. It I was obvious help was there and I couldn't cope with witnessing the poor thing.

I've seen many dog fights/attacks here, but never seen a dog hurt so bad. Because of the relationship to the thread (which I was reading at the time) I typed straight away. As I was distressed I may not have explained the situation 100% clearly.

Yesterday, I spoke to the owner of the small dog, it's spine is broken and it's being treated, but she's not sure if it will live. The owner of the ridgeback is picking up the tab and I haven't seen the dog running around since.

Your apology and hope I have explained the situation clearly.

[elfe]

hey, i'm sorry if i got it wrong and you and the owner went for help already, but as i said, it did not sound like that in your first post and that is why i was upset. thank you for putting it right!

i have seen it several times here, dogs getting hit by cars or motorbikes, running or lying around after and screaming and no one in the vicinity tries to do anything, just watching or even not that. if i ask ppl why they don't help they say cannot do anything, it will die anyway, is not my dog. it is just really not to understand sometimes and makes me so sad.

good that the owner took it to the vet and hopefully it survives.

good also that the owner of the bigger dog learnt a lesson (hopefully lasting), but for the poor small one too late

[Gary A]

We are very fortunate to have a well behaved Golden Retriever. He learned quickly and visitors are usually impressed. My wife did most of the training and when visitors ask her how she trained him, she immediately replies that she beats him. It is a bit shocking for them to hear that so I then have to explain HOW she beats him. Like most Thai house wives, she has one of those little short brooms with a fluffy head. She used to swat him with it. I might add that she swats me once in a while too, but I'm too old to learn easily.

The training started when he was a puppy. If she yells at him and shakes that little broom, his feelings are hurt and he sulks for a while. I'm sure he would rather be beaten than have her threaten him with her broom. The point being that an older dog is difficult to train and I doubt that I would have the patience. Sometimes shocker collars are quite effective and even an older dog will learn quickly. I don't know about the barrier type but those with just a remote control are better than being forced to have to have a dog destroyed.

[Smithson]

hey, i'm sorry if i got it wrong and you and the owner went for help already, but as i said, it did not sound like that in your first post and that is why i was upset. thank you for putting it right!

i have seen it several times here, dogs getting hit by cars or motorbikes, running or lying around after and screaming and no one in the vicinity tries to do anything, just watching or even not that. if i ask ppl why they don't help they say cannot do anything, it will die anyway, is not my dog. it is just really not to understand sometimes and makes me so sad.

good that the owner took it to the vet and hopefully it survives.

good also that the owner of the bigger dog learnt a lesson (hopefully lasting), but for the poor small one too late

Working in rescue must be very difficult, I'm sure you see cruelty everyday. It was very unfortunate, initially I heard the yelping but was working and couldn't see what was happening. These sorts of sounds are so common here that you almost don't notice them. Often a dog will just yelp when submitting. I couldn't see it, but our staff jumped up saying the ridgeback lifted the small dog and shook it in the air. It happened in a few seconds and showed me how dangerous dogs can be. It was quite a wake up call for me, because one of my dogs is aggressive towards other dogs, so I'm now being extra careful.