Leading Think Tank Sees Need To Restructure Thai Economy And Society

[thaigene2]

The problems require changes that the elites simply are unwilling to make.

Exactly. That's exactly the problem - so right. When you don't give a rat's ass about the 90 % of the poor Thais out there, why would you change anything? That's why the election of PPP has them so scared though - and that's why there are rumours of another coup - they're not scared of Thaksin - they want to put an end to this populism thing - but they don't know how to do it. The elites are rattled.. In other words, they'd rather fight it out, then work it out to everyone's benefit - in order to maintain the staus quo for the priviledged few.

Also - has the whole sufficiency economy thing quietly disappeared from discussions and news reporting? Have any of the new government ministers used that rhetoric yet in policy speeches or even interviews? Is it 'morabund' now?

Edited March 30, 2008 by thaigene2

[Plus]

Ahem, PPP would be the first one to oppose any systematic changes. In that sense they are as elite and anyone else.

The only party that would listen is Democrats.

[thaigene2]

Ahem, PPP would be the first one to oppose any systematic changes. In that sense they are as elite and anyone else.

The only party that would listen is Democrats.

Agree the PPP are also elites, biz people in it for themseleves and everything they can get - just like all the politicians here. No one (or very, very few) are in politics cause they're interested in 'public policy' now are they? But PPP/TRT found a niche that works - give something to the people who elected you, like more investment in schools, rural hospitals, etc, etc, and as long as you keep the mass voters happy you can continue to plunder - but if you think the PPP/TRT invented plundering in Thailand you're really kidding yourself. How do you think all those rich people out there in Emporium and Paragon raised the money to pay for their Benz in the parking lot? Even a doctor's salary wouldn't buy him that. This is about who you know and how you scheme up ways together to cheat/defraud (often the country thru govt contracts and sub-contracts). Thaksin and his buddies upset the patronage system - the status quo of cushy closed-shop, intra-family deals (the oligarchs) to be repalced with their own brand of big-business cronyism. That's what this is all about Plus - and you know it.

As for the Dems - you're right. They're good listeners. They're a bit like the single, sensitive guy at a party - he never gets laid - but the girls like to talk to him, 'becuase he's a good listener.' The Democrats have been 'listening' for around 20 or 30 years now. They haven't done anything for the poor - but they're good listeners!

Edited March 30, 2008 by thaigene2

[Heng]

Sitting around waiting for the government to improve one's personal situation is about as practical as sitting around waiting for God or Allah to do so. Most of our great great great grandparents were born with two hands, that's about as fair as it gets.

It's also akin to listening to a club player in any sport complaining about not being able to compete with a professional player because the gov't didn't have a junior development program in place and not enough field/court/equipment/Power Bar/steroid subsidies AND ignoring his/her lack of talent, not starting out in the game early enough, not making sacrifices, not working hard, etc. Instead, their argument is the kindergarten playground: "nevermind all that, I want a do-over!"

[Scott]

The solutions they will come up with will be simple. People need to be 'more' Thai. They need to get rid of western thoughts and ideas.

Children should take care of their parents (that way the gov't doesn't have to be responsible).

Wives should 'submit' to their husbands, thus no divorce nor family problems.

Children should listen to their parents.

Rice farmers should be poor but happy and accept their lot in life.

Children should study hard and never question their teachers.

etc. etc. etc.

Now tell the people in the South to follow this formula as well!

Fly the flag and follow the Gross National Happiness index. Everything is wonderful.

[Dakhar]

What makes me grin is a lot of the elites like to think they "ran the race" and won the prize. When the relaity is... they were born in to old money... that was their greatest achievement.

Start from zero, play the game and then come back to the table, lets see how the cards fall then.

I wager my life's savings GW-B would be pushing a mop if he would take up the challenge.

[Heng]

What makes me grin is how some folks think there is a finish line, instead of a perpetual game. Starting from one, two, or ten million, the game is the same, it's just different game tokens and denominations.

[Plus]

.. the relaity is... they were born in to old money... that was their greatest achievement.

Start from zero, play the game and then come back to the table, lets see how the cards fall then.

I doubt they could simply convert the old money and wooden houses to skysrapers and factories.

Thailand's achievement is that every new generations doesn't need to start from zero, like some of their neighbours.

[PeaceBlondie]

Heng, would it make Thailand better if the government/nation improved the education system, stopped passing all students, stopped mind-numbing outdated methods of instruction, etc.? Did UT-Austin become a very highly respected international school by acting like most Thai unis? But I know enough UT history to know that the oil fields of West Texas endowed the uni with extra money. Is Thailand too poor to endow its schools to do their job? Are you enrolling your little ones in the local govt. school soon, or will your driver send them to the best private schools until they go to Farangland?

Heng, nobody so far in this discussion seems to be asking Thailand to turn itself into some kind of socialist workers' republic where everyone is on the dole and nobody works hard for a living. Capitalism is the only game left in this world, even when disguised as self-sufficient capitalism. The elites cannot pretend to empower enough Thais to make it into the late 20th century. Welcome to feudalism reincarnated.

Okay, so my rhetoric is overblown, and sometimes I'm a drama queen.

[Heng]

.. the relaity is... they were born in to old money... that was their greatest achievement.

Start from zero, play the game and then come back to the table, lets see how the cards fall then.

I doubt they could simply convert the old money and wooden houses to skysrapers and factories.

Thailand's achievement is that every new generations doesn't need to start from zero, like some of their neighbours.

It's hardly a unique situation. It's the norm for every family in the world with a legacy, and those whose legacies are yet to be built (it's not too late), whether they are nth generation Harvard or Oxford alumni or humble _____ and Sons or _____ Brothers type business. Considering that the world's resources are finite and getting more scarce everyday, it's long term suicide to consider it anything else other than a relay race. I would think that most would agree, even those who resent having to run the first leg when they've already been lapped a few times.

[Heng]

Heng, would it make Thailand better if the government/nation improved the education system, stopped passing all students, stopped mind-numbing outdated methods of instruction, etc.?

Absolutely.

Did UT-Austin become a very highly respected international school by acting like most Thai unis? But I know enough UT history to know that the oil fields of West Texas endowed the uni with extra money. Is Thailand too poor to endow its schools to do their job? Are you enrolling your little ones in the local govt. school soon, or will your driver send them to the best private schools until they go to Farangland?

UT has some great tools for those who want to apply themselves (nice to have that permanent oil endowment to help fund it too), but it's also considered by many to be diploma mill. Plenty of loopholes, chutes, and ladders as well (just like life). I know for my own fraternity, we had archived and sometimes current exam files, and yes we have numerous legacies that are captains of industry and members of congress. Not exactly Skull and Bones, no top Fortune 500 guys or key members of gov't (just plain jane congressman) more like a "poor" Texan version of it. Still an excellent microcosm of what makes the world go round (Thailand included). Taught me that yes, it's all relative and it's just fine to be running a good race somewhere in the middle.

As for my Henglets, they'll go to second tier private schools and likely end up in local gov't universities. Naturally, they'll have some say in this... so if they want to go to Singapore, Japan, England or the US and show the potential to run with it, so be it, I'll gladly foot the bill. I kind of have this loose "it's all relative" supplementary around the house/office type education plan for the young Hengs (as is the norm in a lot of households that choose to put forth the effort) focusing on learning basic business from the ground up, moderate controlled expansion, preservation of accrued assets, and remembering your place in it all: that we're less fortunate than many but more fortunate than most.

Heng, nobody so far in this discussion seems to be asking Thailand to turn itself into some kind of socialist workers' republic where everyone is on the dole and nobody works hard for a living. Capitalism is the only game left in this world, even when disguised as self-sufficient capitalism. The elites cannot pretend to empower enough Thais to make it into the late 20th century. Welcome to feudalism reincarnated.

Okay, so my rhetoric is overblown, and sometimes I'm a drama queen.

Nice monologue... *ignites party popper*

Scene.

[cclub75]

Only one solution : re-vo-lu-tion.

The system is like a huge tumor inside the body. Impossible to remove, or to cure.

[Heng]

Is that where they buy Benmore instead of Hundred Pipers?

[Bagwan]

A Government Think Tank? So they get a tank to think for them? That explains a lot. The sooner the 30 year old Swiss tanks are purchased and brought on board the better methinks.

Note to the Generals - get your act together and quickly sort out who gets what proportion of the under the counter money and get those tanks here. A New Dawn could be on the horizon.

[LaoPo]

As for my Henglets, they'll go to second tier private schools and likely end up in local gov't universities. Naturally, they'll have some say in this... so if they want to go to Singapore, Japan, England or the US and show the potential to run with it, so be it, I'll gladly foot the bill. I kind of have this loose "it's all relative" supplementary around the house/office type education plan for the young Hengs (as is the norm in a lot of households that choose to put forth the effort) focusing on learning basic business from the ground up, moderate controlled expansion, preservation of accrued assets, and remembering your place in it all: that we're less fortunate than many but more fortunate than most.

Surprised you didn't mention Switzerland; they'll learn at least 2 to 3 foreign languages; next to that the International Schools in Suisse are THE places in the world to meet VIP's children from around the world. The Royalty from your country just love Suisse.

LaoPo

[selftaopath]

The problems require changes that the elites simply are unwilling to make.

BINGO! When one was born with a silver spoon up you know where, it is hard to use chop sticks!

I am not too sure where buddhism comes into play here, but it would seem that this was either not driven into their heads (that they were born priviledged and that they should do something worthy to repay society) or it is not part of buddhism. If the latter, simple morality should be taught to them. However, I fear it will take a lot of work to change that caste-like mentality! Just look at the soap operas on Thai TV where the whitish elite living in palaces and don't do a thing, but cry all day! (Not that this is much different than in North America, mind you!) So, does buddhism teach anything that could change the mentality? If so, why is it not working?

I agree completely with you that reducing class size, etc. is essential, but I wonder if the Thai teachers who represent the elite (right?) want to change things?

Hi and thanks to all. I believe Buddhism suggests:

The Five Precepts

1. For the purpose of training I vow to refrain from taking life.

2. For the purpose of training I vow to refrain from taking what is not given.

3. For the purpose of training I vow to refrain from sexual misconduct.

4. For the purpose of training I vow to refrain from false speech.

5. For the purpose of training I vow to refrain from intoxicants which lead to carelessness.

Therefore it might be an observation that while Thailand boasts it is a Buddhist Nation, the ACTIONS might suggest something different. And can we see "saving face" as FALSE speech and wanting something to appear different than it really is?

Humn.

[younghusband]

It's probably worth pointing out that NESDB is not really a leading think tank at all (these don't exist in Thailand, and there would be quite an interesting debate to be had why they don't) but a hangover from the days when five year state plans were in vogue.Having said that NESDB has had some advisers/staff of the highest quality.Overall I suspect it has less influence now than in the 1970's and 1980's.I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has up to date knowledge not least what precise role it now has in economic planning and how it co-ordinates with lead ministries.