Married To A Thai

[DavieA]

My Thai wife and I have been married for nearly 3 years but live in Australia. I've never really thought about it much but if we wanted to live in Thailand, what does this actually mean for me? Can I automatically stay as long as I want? Can I get a loan/buy a house in "our names"? Can I work other than teaching English? Can I become a Thai citizen/get a Thai Passport after staying for a certain amount of time just like my wife can in Australia, or will I always be a "falang"?

I know these questions are probably not easy to answer in a few posts, but I want to get a brief idea. The thought of living and settling in Thailand is becoming quite interesting.

Regards

Dave

[lopburi3]

No. You must have a visa for entry for more than 30 days and if you qualify for extension of stay with 40k per month family income you can probably obtain one year extensions of stay on a yearly basis.

No. You can not own land in Thailand. Your wife can buy in her name. You can own some condos outright. Getting a loan may be possible for wife but extremely difficult for you.

Yes. But you must have a work permit just as any other foreigner. Other than self employment, and the costs involved with that, working for others often means English teaching is the only major option (unless you have special skills).

No. But after three years of living here on one year extensions of stay you become eligible to apply for permanent residence (PR) (not likely to be approved without history of work here at 80k per month or more and ability in language). After PR citizenship is a theoretical possibility but almost never happens unless there are special circumstances (lifetime of helping Thailand and such).

Suggest you read items in the useful information pinned section at top of this forum.

[farangmal]

My Thai wife and I have been married for nearly 3 years but live in Australia. I've never really thought about it much but if we wanted to live in Thailand, what does this actually mean for me? Can I automatically stay as long as I want? Can I get a loan/buy a house in "our names"? Can I work other than teaching English? Can I become a Thai citizen/get a Thai Passport after staying for a certain amount of time just like my wife can in Australia, or will I always be a "falang"?

I know these questions are probably not easy to answer in a few posts, but I want to get a brief idea. The thought of living and settling in Thailand is becoming quite interesting.

Regards

Dave

I'm Married to a Thai too and to be honest it doesn't make one iota of difference.

Someone over 50 on a retirement visa has more rights than a Married partner of a Thai.

You will always be a 'falang'

Even my Son born in Pattaya gets called falang noi (smalll falang) by the Thais.

That's why I stay in a cold Country.

Edited March 31, 2008 by farangmal

[torrenova]

Load of benefits for them coming to our countries but precious little in the way of benefits here. That you actually have to show a continuous income stream even to get a visa to live here is pathetic (when under 50).

[farangmal]

Load of benefits for them coming to our countries but precious little in the way of benefits here. That you actually have to show a continuous income stream even to get a visa to live here is pathetic (when under 50).

Yes...the poster asking the question would be well advised to stay put in Australia. For his benefit and his Wifes.

[phutoie2]

'Someone over 50 on a retirement visa has more rights than a married partner of a Thai'

Is that really so? I have been thinking about this as my neighbour (same age - 51) is on marriage extension and I am on retirement extension.

[lopburi3]

No it is not true. On family you can work. On family you do not have to meet the same company financial conditions that others need so it is a bit easier to obtain a work permit. On family you can apply for permanent residency.

But if you have no work plans and are over age 50 then retirement is the easier process for annual extensions of stay.

[farangmal]

No it is not true. On family you can work. On family you do not have to meet the same company financial conditions that others need so it is a bit easier to obtain a work permit. On family you can apply for permanent residency.

But if you have no work plans and are over age 50 then retirement is the easier process for annual extensions of stay.

Yes...if you meet all the criteria and even then! How many permanent residensies do they give every year? Not many.

And the financial conditions are not easy to meet if you are under 50.

In the UK a Wife enters on a two year visa. They can get a National insurance number and do ANY job they can get. After the two years there's only ONE more visa then they can stay forever and do EVERYTHING a British Citizen can do. Own land own property, work and even claim benefits if they need to.

I would guess that Australia mirrors that?

In Thailand you are only as good as that fresh stamp on your visa or your 90 day report.

All these 'little' things just make me stay put where I am. Even though I love Thailand I know myself and kids will never be treated fairly or squarely as an equal Human being if I go back to live there again.

So even though it is a very attractive thought living in the sunshine in Paradise that might tempt the OP he's in probably one of the best Countries in the World. I know where I would rather be!

[BigSnake]

My Thai wife and I have been married for nearly 3 years but live in Australia. I've never really thought about it much but if we wanted to live in Thailand, what does this actually mean for me? Can I automatically stay as long as I want? Can I get a loan/buy a house in "our names"? Can I work other than teaching English? Can I become a Thai citizen/get a Thai Passport after staying for a certain amount of time just like my wife can in Australia, or will I always be a "falang"?

I know these questions are probably not easy to answer in a few posts, but I want to get a brief idea. The thought of living and settling in Thailand is becoming quite interesting.

Regards

Dave

No one thing for sure you can't stay for long as you want, you will have to do the one year visa thing just like ther rest of us, unless you opt to go for the RED BOOK(Thai Residence). Loan in her name as long as you show an income and pay the bills. Yes you can work, just apply for the old one year work permit along with your one year visa. come on up to Thailand, I know many of your fellows country men have already homestead here, i.e., own Bars and other places.

[teacherofwoe]

I'm married to a Thai lady and we've just had our first baby. I've been teaching for the past few years but i'm now looking for a new teaching gig as my contract hasn't been renewed due to buffalo directors at the school (another story), so what do I do if I don't get another teaching gig ("work permit job")? I can't get a marriage visa without K40 per month. I'm well under 50 too, so what are my options other than do three months of border runs and then naff off back for three months?????????????????????????

Any sensible ideas would be most appreciated as the school job situation in Chaing Mai sucks at the moment.

[samran]

OK: Disclaimer - I have a Thai Passport via birth, and I think that spouses should be given automatic work rights and a straightforward path to residency. That said, a few obervations.

Yes...if you meet all the criteria and even then! How many permanent residensies do they give every year? Not many.

true, but that is cause not many people apply. I genuinely don't think that Thai PR offers much to people with Western passports.

And the financial conditions are not easy to meet if you are under 50.

40,000K per month per couple shouldn't be too hard to meet. And even if you come up short, your wife just declares a pretend "cash" income to the revenue department and they'll issue you with the proof that you need to get the visa extended. Tax on 40,000K per month for a married couple is about 2,000 baht a month. That is 30 quid. Not an ideal way to do it, but it is a loophole.

They can get a National insurance number and do ANY job they can get.

CAN GET are the operative words here. Migrants wherever they go usually struggle to enter the local job market, especially when there are language, training issues etc.

To answer the OP (as well as this point), my experience is that in Thailand you can do anything you want. Work permits etc are a side issue, and as Lopburi3 pointed out, more of a formality for people married to Thai nationals. Restrictions on participating in certain proffessions are also a side issue. It is easy enough to be a "consultant" here without too much trouble.

The real question people should ask is "do I have skills needed in the Thai market and am I going to get paid what I think I'm worth for it".

The answer for many to this question is a resounding NO. They don't speak Thai (pretty much essential) and they don't do something that the Thai market values highly enough to pay them the big bucks.

Those farangs here that do well (and there are plenty in my experience) do have a unique talent and skill, and more than just get by, they do very well.

Even though I love Thailand I know myself and kids will never be treated fairly or squarely as an equal Human being if I go back to live there again.

dunno about you, but your kids stand a pretty good chance. There are enough 'boomerang' kids like me about. I'm half Australian and Thai, and the opportunities here for me surpass what I can do in Australia. But they are more based on my skills rather than the passports I hold.

[DavieA]

Thanks lop, Samran and the rest of you guys, sounds like a pretty mixed bag.

It is quite dissapointing that Thailand offers very little in the way of acceptance into their country for foreign settlers. My wife will very soon have her permanent residency in Australia after 2 years, and she is already able to claim government benefits (the doll - but wont!), Medicare, able to "choose" any job she is suitable for, and we already get governent assistance every 2 weeks just for having a baby (not including the $4000 they gave us at our daughters birth). She's also given 500 hours of free English lessons at college and more if she feels she needs it on completion of the 500 hours!! In short Australia has gone out of it's way to help her become a part of Australia, and for that I am very grateful to my homeland.

She is very much accepted not only as a citizen by the country, but also as a "normal" person by my friends and family and now equal to everyone. She is not looked upon as an "Asian" which I guess is equivalent to a "falang" here in Thailand.

I appriciate Thailand is very much a developing country and not in a position to provide such luxuries as Australia, but just acknowledgment of the fact you are married to a Thai with half Thai children and are prepared to intergrate into their country would be nice. Just small gestures like being able to get a temporary/permant visa without having to do bloody boarder runs every year for a start, and maybe some Thai language lessons throwns in, that's all! Just from reading some of the responses to my post sound like not even the half thai/western babies a fully accepted as "equal" and are called a different name as a result. Seems like the falang has to somehow "earn" the right to be accepted as equal to Thais, and at best will always have to continue to earn the respect so long as they reside here.

I'm sure Thailand will change as time goes by. My wife are only 35 years old and a long away from the retirement visa stage. So I guess for now I'll put the "moving to Thailand" idea on the back burner for now, at least until I come up with a solution (some of you have provided some good info).

If my wife and I wanted to buy some land and a house (in "her" name of course!) for when we do come back each year, is it possible to get a Thai bank loan in her name based on our assets/income in Austrlalia? We have a lot of equity in our house in OZ and I have a pretty reasonable salary (50k+). Wont hold my breath for a "yes" answer though!

Regards

Dave

Edited April 2, 2008 by DavieA

[barky]

DaveA, If you have a good set-up in Oz why in heavens name would you want to move here?

I know your wife would love it she's a Thai and being away from family and country she would be like a fish out of water in Oz. Can she be satisfied with periodic visits? The way I see it if money is not a driver for you and you don't mind playing second or third fiddle in most everything (or unless you are prepared to flash lots of cash so everyone will respect you) then come on over and you can join a lot of us whingers on TV. Only joking. As long as you have got your nest egg safe in Australia then Thailand offers a fairly good standard at reduced rates. It does take some getting used to though, so be prepared for lots of frustration, especially in business. But please remember when you are here you will always be the outsider/alien/foreigner, no matter how nice people are around you. However, in spite of any of the negatives I may have provided if you keep your head down, mind your own business, be very tollerant and forgiving you should do OK.

[farangmal]

Thanks lop, Samran and the rest of you guys, sounds like a pretty mixed bag.

It is quite dissapointing that Thailand offers very little in the way of acceptance into their country for foreign settlers. My wife will very soon have her permanent residency in Australia after 2 years, and she is already able to claim government benefits (the doll - but wont!), Medicare, able to "choose" any job she is suitable for, and we already get governent assistance every 2 weeks just for having a baby (not including the $4000 they gave us at our daughters birth). She's also given 500 hours of free English lessons at college and more if she feels she needs it on completion of the 500 hours!! In short Australia has gone out of it's way to help her become a part of Australia, and for that I am very grateful to my homeland.

She is very much accepted not only as a citizen by the country, but also as a "normal" person by my friends and family and now equal to everyone. She is not looked upon as an "Asian" which I guess is equivalent to a "falang" here in Thailand.

I appriciate Thailand is very much a developing country and not in a position to provide such luxuries as Australia, but just acknowledgment of the fact you are married to a Thai with half Thai children and are prepared to intergrate into their country would be nice. Just small gestures like being able to get a temporary/permant visa without having to do bloody boarder runs every year for a start, and maybe some Thai language lessons throwns in, that's all! Just from reading some of the responses to my post sound like not even the half thai/western babies a fully accepted as "equal" and are called a different name as a result. Seems like the falang has to somehow "earn" the right to be accepted as equal to Thais, and at best will always have to continue to earn the respect so long as they reside here.

I'm sure Thailand will change as time goes by. My wife are only 35 years old and a long away from the retirement visa stage. So I guess for now I'll put the "moving to Thailand" idea on the back burner for now, at least until I come up with a solution (some of you have provided some good info).

If my wife and I wanted to buy some land and a house (in "her" name of course!) for when we do come back each year, is it possible to get a Thai bank loan in her name based on our assets/income in Austrlalia? We have a lot of equity in our house in OZ and I have a pretty reasonable salary (50k+). Wont hold my breath for a "yes" answer though!

Regards

Dave

My advice to you would be to stay put in Australia.

You and your children will never be fully accepted or integrated into Thailand. Your kids could pay more at a private school because of their non Thai blood and as what happened to my Wife she was refused medical care for our less than one year old boy in a local village Thai clinic because he 'didn't look' Thai.

I put up with living in the Uk with my Family these days because what you say nearly mirrors my Wifes experience here. And your Country is ten times better than this place I can assure you.

Thailand will never change..not in your or my lifetime anyway. The last few years they have taken in my opinion huge steps BACKWARD towards Foreigners.

Integrate your Wife, enjoy your kids and keep LOS as a holiday. Give them a chance to develop and grow in a good Country.

p.s. Better to rent you can change location every time you go there

Not meaning to be too negative as Thailand has a lot to offer...especially for us Brits coming from a cold Country. Where we are it's never been above 8 degrees since Christmas and raining and windy every day. How depressing.

I stick it out here for the sake of my kids.

If it were just me I would be back to LOS in a heartbeat, keeping my cash in the UK of course.

Sunshine reasonably tax free living and last but defenitely not least....Women half our ages available in the bucket load is whai tempts most Males to settle there. Not the golf

Edited April 2, 2008 by farangmal

[DavieA]

DaveA, If you have a good set-up in Oz why in heavens name would you want to move here?

I know your wife would love it she's a Thai and being away from family and country she would be like a fish out of water in Oz. Can she be satisfied with periodic visits? The way I see it if money is not a driver for you and you don't mind playing second or third fiddle in most everything (or unless you are prepared to flash lots of cash so everyone will respect you) then come on over and you can join a lot of us whingers on TV. Only joking. As long as you have got your nest egg safe in Australia then Thailand offers a fairly good standard at reduced rates. It does take some getting used to though, so be prepared for lots of frustration, especially in business. But please remember when you are here you will always be the outsider/alien/foreigner, no matter how nice people are around you. However, in spite of any of the negatives I may have provided if you keep your head down, mind your own business, be very tollerant and forgiving you should do OK.

Thanks Barky

I do have a good set up in OZ and yes we are seemingly very blessed with all the creature comforts, but to be hosnest I hate the rat race lifestyle of the western world. High living costs with all the bullshit rules, paper work, tax, bland shit food, okka mucho bloke attitudes, stress etc etc etc etc!!

I lived in Thailand for nearly 3 years teaching English (thats how I met my wife), so am well versed in all the Thai hurdles and frustrations (ever taught in a Thai school?...hehehe). I can speak Thai ok but not really well (although I am always told I "pud chut") and manage to intergrate well with Thai's because I have a good tolerant attitude. My Thai family accept me like their own and are very kind and accepting. My girlfriend isn't from a bar and I feel very lucky to have met her. Far better than any western girl I've been out with!!

Quite frankly I prefer all the b@llshit of Thailand over all the b@llshit of Australia. I just wanted to ask some of the more longterm expats of Thailand about their experiences.

As you said, money isn't a driver for me so my idea is to rent my house in OZ (30,000 baht/month) and find a job here outside of teaching (will never go back there) to suppliment our income. Thought of starting a small business with my wife or something but just dont know what. I have a lot of experience (18 years) as an "Optical Mechanic" (making prescription lenses) working for Carl Ziess, but unfortunately they dont exist in Thailand. I know 1 large lens manufacture that is in Thailand but dont want to be based in Bangkok. I would also need to learn to read and write Thai to have any real hope, but that could be done.

The thought of being able to earn "almost" a western wage while living in Thailand would be just peeerrrfect for us! That way we could still go home to Oz once a year, I could get a few surfs in and live the rest of the time back here.

Where are you based Barky?

Edited April 2, 2008 by DavieA

[siamamerican]

No. You must have a visa for entry for more than 30 days and if you qualify for extension of stay with 40k per month family income you can probably obtain one year extensions of stay on a yearly basis.

No. You can not own land in Thailand. Your wife can buy in her name. You can own some condos outright. Getting a loan may be possible for wife but extremely difficult for you.

Yes. But you must have a work permit just as any other foreigner. Other than self employment, and the costs involved with that, working for others often means English teaching is the only major option (unless you have special skills).

No. But after three years of living here on one year extensions of stay you become eligible to apply for permanent residence (PR) (not likely to be approved without history of work here at 80k per month or more and ability in language). After PR citizenship is a theoretical possibility but almost never happens unless there are special circumstances (lifetime of helping Thailand and such).

Suggest you read items in the useful information pinned section at top of this forum.

I could search other posts on this topic, but I'm a little lazy at the moment. If married to a Thai, would 40k in investment income suffice? How do you prove the income and does it need to be realized income or can you use investment gains that aren’t realized. The last 5 years it would be easy to show much more than 40k a month in gains, but what happens when your investments perform badly, which inevitably will happen?

[barky]

DaveA, I'm in BKK. Been here going on 7 years. I too am married to a Thai who is a professional in a relatively high profile , respectable position. I too, like you am very lucky to have met my missus.

It seems that you have got your act together, so all I can do is wish you both all the best if you finally make the move. Good luck. Barky.

[TheChiefJustice]

After PR citizenship is a theoretical possibility but almost never happens unless there are special circumstances (lifetime of helping Thailand and such).

This is not correct. It happens more than you think. There are procedures and requirements to follow. If you follow them correctly, citizenship is possible.

I received my Thai citizenship recently. I am, needless to say, very pleased.

[barky]

After PR citizenship is a theoretical possibility but almost never happens unless there are special circumstances (lifetime of helping Thailand and such).

This is not correct. It happens more than you think. There are procedures and requirements to follow. If you follow them correctly, citizenship is possible.

I received my Thai citizenship recently. I am, needless to say, very pleased.

Good for you. BTW do you know how many westeners are granted PR each year? Do you know how the numbres of wsteners getting PR ranks with other nationalities/races (eg:Chinese)?

You say we would be surprised by the number granted PR...How surprised? I'm not trying to be mischievous, I really would like to know what are my real chances because rightly or wrongly I have always been under the impression I need to be Chinese or wealthy to have a real chance at PR.

[TheChiefJustice]

Actually, I was talking about citizenship, not PR. However, irrespective of whether you are talking PR or citizenship, the number of Westerners obtaining PR/citizenship is less than the number of Chinese persons. This is because the number of Westerners applying for PR or citizenship is less. There are many people on this forum who have successfully applied for and obtained PR. There are also several Westerners who have gone the extra step and applied for and obtained citizenship.

My point in all of this is that it happens and, in the case of citizenship, its happening is not just a "theoretical possibility".

I must also apologise for responding in this thread. I do hope that this is not seen by the moderators as hijacking the OP's thread. That was certainly not my intention and if I have offended anyone please accept my sincerest apologies.

Edited April 2, 2008 by TheChiefJustice

[lopburi3]

I am well aware that some people obtain citizenship. But in the case of the OP, which was the context of my post and who I was addressing, believe it would be highly unlikely (but a theoretical possibility) without much more than what he provided in his post. His post was "Can I become a Thai citizen/get a Thai Passport after staying for a certain amount of time just like my wife can in Australia". The answer is no; but in theory he could set himself on a path that might work but it will involve special circumstances such as income levels or contributions to Thailand/education and such.

[jstumbo]

Good for you. BTW do you know how many westeners are granted PR each year? Do you know how the numbres of wsteners getting PR ranks with other nationalities/races (eg:Chinese)?

You say we would be surprised by the number granted PR...How surprised? I'm not trying to be mischievous, I really would like to know what are my real chances because rightly or wrongly I have always been under the impression I need to be Chinese or wealthy to have a real chance at PR.

They only allow 100 people a year from each country to get PR, and from what I read, the number is usally less than that. To get Thai citizenship, you would need PR first. The number of people that go from PR to citizenship has to be much smaller than those that just stop at PR. I can't imagine there are more than 10-20 people from each country that gain citizenship each year.

[samran]

Good for you. BTW do you know how many westeners are granted PR each year? Do you know how the numbres of wsteners getting PR ranks with other nationalities/races (eg:Chinese)?

You say we would be surprised by the number granted PR...How surprised? I'm not trying to be mischievous, I really would like to know what are my real chances because rightly or wrongly I have always been under the impression I need to be Chinese or wealthy to have a real chance at PR.

They only allow 100 people a year from each country to get PR, and from what I read, the number is usally less than that. To get Thai citizenship, you would need PR first. The number of people that go from PR to citizenship has to be much smaller than those that just stop at PR. I can't imagine there are more than 10-20 people from each country that gain citizenship each year.

here are my observations. I'm currently going through the process to get my wife Thai nationality. Admittedly the process is 'easier' but at the same time, it is still involves tonnes of paperwork.

And I think this is the issue, sure qualifications are one portion, but I think people really get turned off by the amount of paperwork required for PR and citizenship. Given that you have to go through a Thai govt department it gets all 'a bit foreign' and a 'bit too hard'. The thing you find however, is that if you do make the effort to go and speak to the officers in charge, they do tend to be immensley helpful, and indeed quite proud that someone would even be interested in applying for Thai nationality.

The reality is that while it is a bit bureacratic, it is a bit like doing your tax return. You just have to take the time to get all your little ducks lined up in a row first. Too many people (including myself) tend to leave it all for another day.