40 Up And Testotorone Injections! Do They Work?

[BugJackBaron]

So I bet some of you have seen the signs with the young "Charles Atlas" type

standing with bulging muscles shown at some drugstores around Pattaya..

"Better stamina..better libido.... " is the gist of the ad, and there is even

a questionaire to see if you have low testesterone.

It is however, not cheap and you have to inject it(which to me

sounds like it is authentic).

So, does it work? What do doctors think

of all the buzz?

[libya 115]

Be careful; In November 2006 an Irishman named Denis Anthony Leahy stabbed a bar girl to death in Jomtien. He stabbed her 15 times in the body, 3 times in the face, then slit her throat from ear to ear and fled on a motorcycle.

He later admitted to the crime citing; quote: "that muscle enhancing drugs made him crazy".

How must the 24 year old girl's family feel? He was deported back to the Republic of Ireland after just a few months in Thai prison.

[adjan jb]

Be careful; In November 2006 an Irishman named Denis Anthony Leahy stabbed a bar girl to death in Jomtien. He stabbed her 15 times in the body, 3 times in the face, then slit her throat from ear to ear and fled on a motorcycle.

He later admitted to the crime citing; quote: "that muscle enhancing drugs made him crazy".

So it works.

[misterman21]

Worked for my sister - she now has a beard and can drink 10 pints no problem

[tattoodrob]

Worked for my sister - she now has a beard and can drink 10 pints no problem

thats 9 pints more than you then

seriously though yes it does work to some extent as natural testosterone levels tend to go down from aprox 40 up ....i think the guy who stabbed the bird was either using it as an excuse or was on some stupid amount that you wouldnt give an elephant,but i guess he was taking more than just the steroids!!he must have been some sort of idiot to start with

[libya 115]

Worked for my sister - she now has a beard and can drink 10 pints no problem

thats 9 pints more than you then

seriously though yes it does work to some extent as natural testosterone levels tend to go down from aprox 40 up ....i think the guy who stabbed the bird was either using it as an excuse or was on some stupid amount that you wouldnt give an elephant,but i guess he was taking more than just the steroids!!he must have been some sort of idiot to start with

Here is the link: 'tattoodrob' I think that he was more than an 'idiot'......

Irishman Murders Bargirl After Using Muscle Enhancing Drugs

Sad.

[wilko]

Be careful; In November 2006 an Irishman named Denis Anthony Leahy stabbed a bar girl to death in Jomtien. He stabbed her 15 times in the body, 3 times in the face, then slit her throat from ear to ear and fled on a motorcycle.

He later admitted to the crime citing; quote: "that muscle enhancing drugs made him crazy".

How must the 24 year old girl's family feel? He was deported back to the Republic of Ireland after just a few months in Thai prison.

or he could have said.."the drugs had no effect whatsoever, I'm just naturally a psychopath and should be executed"

what would you have said????

[wilko]

Worked for my sister - she now has a beard and can drink 10 pints no problem

she drinks...she falls over.....no problem!

[Phil Conners]

Talk about a tread going off topic from the word go

[BugJackBaron]

All very droll this thread.

I asked the famous Dr Oliver about the

risk and he said it was minimal..

So got my first injection today(crosses fingers)

[BigSnake]

Hear tell from close friends they work wonderful.

[Jessy]

Before you start, you need to get your normal base blood hormone levels measured: testosterone, oestrogen, and FSH. Once done, check on internet and find out if they are in normal range. It may be that your testosterone levels are at the lower end of the normal range, or just outside it. In which case try the treatment. But if your blood hormone levels are already well within normal normal range, don't bother. You are wasting your money and, medically, it could cause some serious medical problems, whatever anyone else may tell you.

If you decide to go ahead, after about three months, have your blood hormone levels measured again. You should find that the testosterone levels have gone up - but also the oestrogen. Ther FSH level should do go down. It is very important to regularly measure hormone blood levels, if you are going to start hormone treatment to ensure they stay within range. They will do it for you at Pattaya International hospital, or Bumrunggrad in Bangkok.

The problem is that there is an aromatising enzyme that converts testosterone to oestrogen, and in some men it is more prominent. You could start developing some female characteristics. It will also speed up balding, unless yo are taking proscar, and there are other possible problems.

If it is well controlled, it's worth trying.

[jckei]

You said in your first post that it's not cheap... It makes me wonder, what are you paying?

One vial of 250mg should not cost more than a few hundred bath. I assume he is giving you a moderate dosages of no more than 250mg/week. The normal fee for an injection is 100 bath. All and all, if you would buy the stuff on your own and just go to a clinic to get it injected it should be no more than 400 bath/week.

[tropo]

You said in your first post that it's not cheap... It makes me wonder, what are you paying?

One vial of 250mg should not cost more than a few hundred bath. I assume he is giving you a moderate dosages of no more than 250mg/week. The normal fee for an injection is 100 bath. All and all, if you would buy the stuff on your own and just go to a clinic to get it injected it should be no more than 400 bath/week.

You can get 3 vials of 250 mg Sustanon in Pattaya for 150 baht. That would last a guy on HRT (hormon replacement therapy) 3 to 4 weeks. That's dirt cheap and easy to self inject too. You could easily do it for 50 baht per week.

As Jessy mentioned, get the blood checked...also can be done cheaply at various clinics in Pattaya.

[sweetchariot]

You said in your first post that it's not cheap... It makes me wonder, what are you paying?

One vial of 250mg should not cost more than a few hundred bath. I assume he is giving you a moderate dosages of no more than 250mg/week. The normal fee for an injection is 100 bath. All and all, if you would buy the stuff on your own and just go to a clinic to get it injected it should be no more than 400 bath/week.

You can get 3 vials of 250 mg Sustanon in Pattaya for 150 baht. That would last a guy on HRT (hormon replacement therapy) 3 to 4 weeks. That's dirt cheap and easy to self inject too. You could easily do it for 50 baht per week.

As Jessy mentioned, get the blood checked...also can be done cheaply at various clinics in Pattaya.

You obviously know far too much about this Tropo. Rather than discussing the cost, tell the man what it does.

[tropo]

You obviously know far too much about this Tropo. Rather than discussing the cost, tell the man what it does.

If you're going to play around with injectables for HRT, you can never know too much. Jessy nailed it in a post above. With HRT you're seeking to normalize dwindling testosterone production as you age...it's as simple as that.

I have no idea why anyone is asking about injectables for HRT. A much better and safer, although more expensive option is Andriol Testacaps. It's a very mild form of testosterone supplemenation delivered through the lymphatic system (bypasses the liver) which will have very little to no effect (depending on dose) on the HPTA (the bodies own testosterone production). What this means is that if a person discontinues using them, they still have all of their own natural production to fall back on. If a person injects testosterone (Sustanon etc), their own production will cease and the testicles will shrink due to non-use.

When using Andriol Testacaps there will also be no conversion of excess testerone to estrogen as is usually the case with injectables...mainly because the dose is so mild that there will not be any excess testosterone left in the system. When one injects 250 mg of testerone, there is an immediate surplus of testerone which will shut down the person's own production and start converting to estrogen. This will possibly lead to fat gain, gynecomastia (growth of breast tissue) and other feminizing characteristics.

These can be bought over the counter in Thailand and 1 or 2 caps per day is usually enough. The best price in Thailand is 13.3 baht per cap, so that would be 26.6 baht per day for an average dose. IMO this is the perfect solution to HRT and very safe.

[jckei]

You said in your first post that it's not cheap... It makes me wonder, what are you paying?

One vial of 250mg should not cost more than a few hundred bath. I assume he is giving you a moderate dosages of no more than 250mg/week. The normal fee for an injection is 100 bath. All and all, if you would buy the stuff on your own and just go to a clinic to get it injected it should be no more than 400 bath/week.

You can get 3 vials of 250 mg Sustanon in Pattaya for 150 baht. That would last a guy on HRT (hormon replacement therapy) 3 to 4 weeks. That's dirt cheap and easy to self inject too. You could easily do it for 50 baht per week.

As Jessy mentioned, get the blood checked...also can be done cheaply at various clinics in Pattaya.

I would not recomend anyone using sustanone for hormone replacement therapy. A single longacting ester like enanthate or cypionate is much better for this purpuse. To be able to maintain stable of levels of testosterone in the body when using sustanone you should inject it once every 2 days. I doubt the OP would want that.

I got a feeling someone will quote me and say this aint true etc.The common knowledge about steroids in the "gym" is usually... not that good. So, OP.. Don't take my word for any of this. Just keep it in mind and read up on it your self.

http://forums.steroid.com/

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/

[tropo]

I would not recomend anyone using sustanone for hormone replacement therapy. A single longacting ester like enanthate or cypionate is much better for this purpuse. To be able to maintain stable of levels of testosterone in the body when using sustanone you should inject it once every 2 days. I doubt the OP would want that.

I got a feeling someone will quote me and say this aint true etc.The common knowledge about steroids in the "gym" is usually... not that good. So, OP.. Don't take my word for any of this. Just keep it in mind and read up on it your self.

I'm going to quote you and say this aint true etc.

Sustanon was designed as the ideal HRT drug. The advantage to this drug is that it can be injected once a month, and the different esters will provide different timed releases over that month, and the patient will therefore only need to visit the doctor once a month for his shot.

It's no longer used in the US as an HRT drug simply because it is no longer available there because it's now illegal...mainly because of it's popularity (abuse) amongst athletes.

You say on the one hand that Sustanon should be injected every other day to maintain stable testosterone levels and then that common "gym" knowledge is "not that good".

Where do you think the idea of injecting Sustanon every other day came from? IT came FROM THE GYM, the very place you said we should not go for good information.

Edited April 6, 2008 by tropo

[Jessy]

Just out of interest, does anyone know where blood tests can be done - other than the main hospitals. Are there any known clinics? If so, where?

[BugJackBaron]

Just out of interest, does anyone know where blood tests can be done - other than the main hospitals. Are there any known clinics? If so, where?

Hey dudes... Dr Oliver will do them. And he assures me that feminization(and other probs)

only occurs in overdose..

Two days after taking the injection(and some vitamins he gave me)

I have noticed an improvement in digestion and energy levels...and

my scrotum hasn't shrunk either

[tropo]

Two days after taking the injection(and some vitamins he gave me)

I have noticed an improvement in digestion and energy levels...and

my scrotum hasn't shrunk either

It takes longer than 2 days, but it will happen if you've been given an injection. When the body has an outside source of testosterone it gives up its own production.

[percy2]

Be careful; In November 2006 an Irishman named Denis Anthony Leahy stabbed a bar girl to death in Jomtien. He stabbed her 15 times in the body, 3 times in the face, then slit her throat from ear to ear and fled on a motorcycle.

He later admitted to the crime citing; quote: "that muscle enhancing drugs made him crazy".

How must the 24 year old girl's family feel? He was deported back to the Republic of Ireland after just a few months in Thai prison.

A very miss informed and obtuse post

[BugJackBaron]

Two days after taking the injection(and some vitamins he gave me)

I have noticed an improvement in digestion and energy levels...and

my scrotum hasn't shrunk either

It takes longer than 2 days, but it will happen if you've been given an injection. When the body has an outside source of testosterone it gives up its own production.

Well I'm not sure about the point of your post as

surely if you are taking injections it means that your

body is no longer producing testosterone at youthful levels...

[tropo]

Two days after taking the injection(and some vitamins he gave me)

I have noticed an improvement in digestion and energy levels...and

my scrotum hasn't shrunk either

It takes longer than 2 days, but it will happen if you've been given an injection. When the body has an outside source of testosterone it gives up its own production.

Well I'm not sure about the point of your post as

surely if you are taking injections it means that your

body is no longer producing testosterone at youthful levels...

Dude, I'm trying to help you with some useful information...that's the point of my post.

I went to great lengths to explain that if you need extra testosterone due to lagging personal production levels, Andriol is the way to do it without interfering with your own production. It's the minimalist's approach. The safest approach.

I'm still surprised that doctors in Thailand are going straight to the injections to solve the problem when Andriol is so readily available over the counter. The only reason I can come up with is that they make regular money from patients visiting for their injections every 3 weeks or so.

To answer someone's query back in this thread, testosterone levels can be checked at many clinics around Pattaya and the hospitals. I just had a test done yesterday for 720 baht at a clinic on Pratumnak Road (Dr Sawaddipong Clinic). I'm not sure how this price compares with other clinics around town as I didn't shop around. I have to wait one week for my results.

This clinic happened to have the cheapest liver and blood lipid test prices I've seen in town including the Pattaya Memorial Hospital.

PS. You indicated in your opening post that the injections are "not cheap". How much do you pay?

Edited April 8, 2008 by tropo

[999Aacha]

Before you start, you need to get your normal base blood hormone levels measured: testosterone, oestrogen, and FSH. Once done, check on internet and find out if they are in normal range. It may be that your testosterone levels are at the lower end of the normal range, or just outside it. In which case try the treatment. But if your blood hormone levels are already well within normal normal range, don't bother. You are wasting your money and, medically, it could cause some serious medical problems, whatever anyone else may tell you.

If you decide to go ahead, after about three months, have your blood hormone levels measured again. You should find that the testosterone levels have gone up - but also the oestrogen. Ther FSH level should do go down. It is very important to regularly measure hormone blood levels, if you are going to start hormone treatment to ensure they stay within range. They will do it for you at Pattaya International hospital, or Bumrunggrad in Bangkok.

The problem is that there is an aromatising enzyme that converts testosterone to oestrogen, and in some men it is more prominent. You could start developing some female characteristics. It will also speed up balding, unless yo are taking proscar, and there are other possible problems.

If it is well controlled, it's worth trying.

Just adding to what Jessy mentioned...

Yes it could cause some serious medical problems, such as Long-term-Mental-Disorder, types of Cancer. That's why it's a control medicine... You should not have it injected unless the testosterone level is too low, and with doctor recommendation!

Seriously Though, my grandpa get it injected, and he has to take extra treatment coz he's got too much of it... It doesnt look too good at all, weeks in hospital...

Good Luck too all!

[tropo]

Just adding to what Jessy mentioned...

Yes it could cause some serious medical problems, such as Long-term-Mental-Disorder, types of Cancer. That's why it's a control medicine... You should not have it injected unless the testosterone level is too low, and with doctor recommendation!

Seriously Though, my grandpa get it injected, and he has to take extra treatment coz he's got too much of it... It doesnt look too good at all, weeks in hospital...

Good Luck too all!

That's a bit overdramatic. An injection every 2 or 3 weeks is very unlikely to cause any major problems, and most people at the age when testosterone is needed are at the age where cancer and mental disorders are becoming more probable anyway.

Finding a good doctor who knows what he's doing is where the good luck is required. Very few doctors in Thailand are going to bother with a full examination before recommending testosterone injections. Finding a doctor in Thailand who really cares about the health of a farang more than making money is also going to be difficult.

The bottom line and the point I'm getting at here is: Never blindly trust doctors with your health and ALWAYS do your own research....especially in 3rd world countries.

Edited April 9, 2008 by tropo

[BugJackBaron]

Two days after taking the injection(and some vitamins he gave me)

I have noticed an improvement in digestion and energy levels...and

my scrotum hasn't shrunk either

It takes longer than 2 days, but it will happen if you've been given an injection. When the body has an outside source of testosterone it gives up its own production.

Well I'm not sure about the point of your post as

surely if you are taking injections it means that your

body is no longer producing testosterone at youthful levels...

Dude, I'm trying to help you with some useful information...that's the point of my post.

I went to great lengths to explain that if you need extra testosterone due to lagging personal production levels, Andriol is the way to do it without interfering with your own production. It's the minimalist's approach. The safest approach.

I'm still surprised that doctors in Thailand are going straight to the injections to solve the problem when Andriol is so readily available over the counter. The only reason I can come up with is that they make regular money from patients visiting for their injections every 3 weeks or so.

To answer someone's query back in this thread, testosterone levels can be checked at many clinics around Pattaya and the hospitals. I just had a test done yesterday for 720 baht at a clinic on Pratumnak Road (Dr Sawaddipong Clinic). I'm not sure how this price compares with other clinics around town as I didn't shop around. I have to wait one week for my results.

This clinic happened to have the cheapest liver and blood lipid test prices I've seen in town including the Pattaya Memorial Hospital.

PS. You indicated in your opening post that the injections are "not cheap". How much do you pay?

Hey Dude I wasn't sure of what your point was but thanks for clarifying.

I know about your concern that the body will no longer produce testosterone.

My doctor in Korea told me this is no problem as long as you schedule

regular breaks in the injections..like a week or so(depends on dosage and delivery).

Dr Oliver's clinic offers a simple injection of 500 Baht which lasts from 3 days to 2 weeks

I think(depnds on person he said) or a long lasting one that is supposed

to last 3 months called Nibido(sp?) . It is 10,000Baht!

I took the 500Baht

Actually I have tried Nibido last year in Korea and found it only gave 1 day or two of

energy so I do appreciate your input and may yet try Andriol...If it is the rub on stuff

(also tried in the past) that I think it is then even so you have to give

a day or two rest between applications.

[999Aacha]

Just adding to what Jessy mentioned...

Yes it could cause some serious medical problems, such as Long-term-Mental-Disorder, types of Cancer. That's why it's a control medicine... You should not have it injected unless the testosterone level is too low, and with doctor recommendation!

Seriously Though, my grandpa get it injected, and he has to take extra treatment coz he's got too much of it... It doesnt look too good at all, weeks in hospital...

Good Luck too all!

That's a bit overdramatic. An injection every 2 or 3 weeks is very unlikely to cause any major problems, and most people at the age when testosterone is needed are at the age where cancer and mental disorders are becoming more probable anyway.

Finding a good doctor who knows what he's doing is where the good luck is required. Very few doctors in Thailand are going to bother with a full examination before recommending testosterone injections. Finding a doctor in Thailand who really cares about the health of a farang more than making money is also going to be difficult.

The bottom line and the point I'm getting at here is: Never blindly trust doctors with your health and ALWAYS do your own research....especially in 3rd world countries.

Totally agree... Maybe i was kindda overreact, though.. I believe there're some amount of good doctors here in the country, but the management people just took the handling wheels, so... Research and ask their ex-patients!!

[tropo]

My doctor in Korea told me this is no problem as long as you schedule

regular breaks in the injections..like a week or so(depends on dosage and delivery).

You doctor in Korea is leading you astray. If a person's natural testosterone production is suppressed or has stopped due to testorsterone injections, it will take a long time to get it back again once discontinuing injections.

If you are using injections for HRT, then you would really have no need to stop anyway. If you did stop, a course of HCG injections should be given to kick start your own production.

I'm only suggesting Andriol as a minimal way to supplement dwindling testosterone levels - kind of a safe first step to HRT.

[wilko]

Isn't there a risk of cancer of the gland up your arse? or has this been mentioned???