Real Price Of A 10 Baht Gold Wedding

[intumult]

A 10 Baht gold wedding would equate to how much in reality?

I gather that the 10 Baht gold is plus other stuff, like a ring and the party etc?

And is the first request an opening gambit on the parents side?

[skippybangkok]

Up country gal by the sounds of it ?

[Huey]

Depends on the Parents. My "opening gambit" sounded like this; The Dad "Well you know about the wedding there is a bride price, sin sot, I hate sin sot, I don't want your money, I have money, and when you get married I will give you some also. However our family is very large and it is our culture, what ever sin sot you want to give is just for show, I will give it back after the wedding. she will just keep what ever gold you give her and mabey she will want to give some small amount to her mother"

So as for the expenses, everyone is different I'll lay mine out for an idea

1) Prima Gold set roughly 6 baht I forgot, less than 100,000

2) Morning Thai style Wedding 9 monks at the family house, roughly 120 people not more than 50,000 (not sure because her mother paid for that)

3) Diamond Ring 300,000

4) Evening wedding party at the Banyan Tree Hotel in BKK, platinum package with food, Moet', and liqor about 1200 per head for 200 people..they had a minimum I think it was 150 people

5) Custom Made Wedding dress for evening 28,000

6) Dress rental for morning 4000

7) My Custome made suit for morning 12,000

8) My Custom made suit for evening 18,000

9) Pictures 40,000

10) Sin Sot: irrelevant I got it back

You may not need to do all that, you may just do the morning ceremony. I would base how much I need to pay based on what a Thai Man would pay if he were in your shoes, and what the parents are willing to do for you both.

[TopDogger]

wow.. Musta been a classy chick Huey.

Totally dependant on the girl and her family, why don't you give us some background info intumult/

[TheDon]

I had a western wedding in Thailand and the father inlaw paid for thewhole thing, no sin sot and he gave us money which was a hel_l of alot more then I ever expected.

[Eric1949]

A 10 Baht gold wedding would equate to how much in reality?

I gather that the 10 Baht gold is plus other stuff, like a ring and the party etc?

And is the first request an opening gambit on the parents side?

I understood that 1 baht gold means the current rate for gold, which is about 14500 baht. So 10 baht would be 10 times the going rate.

Don't go down that route.

[Huey]

wow.. Musta been a classy chick Huey.

Totally dependant on the girl and her family, why don't you give us some background info intumult/

Thank you I think I just got lucky, really just blessed, I mean I never heard of anyone else with a similar situation and after 4 years in Thailand at the time I met her I never met anyone before her that I would ever even consider anything serious with for the many reasons people often mention here. Anyway, I met her on Thailandfriends.com took it slow with a 2 year engagement . Father started out dirt poor, the son of a rural cop, but smart and a hard worker, got scholarships and did some exchange student programs in the 60's. Studied in the US, and eventually got his own business. The mother is Chinese, her mother despised the dad because he was not Chinese, very dark, and very poor. She made him pay off her sin sot in installments like a car payment! But now that he's living in a nice big house outside of BKK, got 4 cars, and plenty of dough she suddenly got amnesia, now he's the favorite son in law... go figure anyway Grandma is good too me at least

I would say if you want to find a nice one, you can, they are out there, rare mind you but there. Try the website, weed out any hoeish type that will sleep with you on your first couple dates. Get one that lives with her parents, because her parents support HER not the other way around. I dealt with never being able to spend the night alone with my fiance' for the full length of our 2 year engagement because of the respect she had for her family (and the dad looked like he would put a cap in my azz if I didn't bring her back before late lol) but it was all worth it. I have 2 families now and I love them dearly.

[intumult]

wow.. Musta been a classy chick Huey.

Totally dependant on the girl and her family, why don't you give us some background info intumult/

Background info :-

Not sure exactly what you are looking for but, ah, what the h*ll, here goes

She

From another thread some might gather she is 25. Thai /Chinese. Slim size 6/8. no kids of her own.

She will come with 2 kids - definitely nieces (as her brother was killed last year and she promised to look after the kids - you'll have to accept that). A 1 year old and a 2 year old. I really do like these kids too.

She is shy, feels unnattractive, but I think she is beautiful.

Never married.

A manageress earning 12k month but now wanting to stop work and care for the kids.

Family.

Father Thai. Mother Chin/Thai. 2 older brothers + 1 deceased.

Family in Chiang Mai - have money.

Family central Thailand have land and some wealth.

Parents work near the main bus station, cooking food and - I am told - this is a lucrative spot, though the home scene does not bear out any financial wealth to notice, looking at furniture, the general condition of the house etc.

House, nothing special. More a small, older town house, 3 beds.

1 motorcycle for the family + 1 older pick-up truck.

What puzzles me is that they look poor. Yet a couple of Thai friends believe they have a lot more than they 'show'.

Reason for asking her to marry me??? LOL

On the one hand, as I have got to know this young lady a lot better, she has definitely stolen a massive chunk of my heart and, yes, I could happily wake up next to her every morning, take her breakfast in bed and do so much more.

But and this is they cynic in me coming out :-

After spending a lot of time and patience in relationships with what turned out to be demanding 'gold - diggers' and other assorted problematic situations that take time to uncover, I decided to get in quicker on this one to see if she wants me for me or for money. Especially as she is 25. And after 3 months or so, I decided not to waste any more time waiting around to see if it is money at the base of this.

Meeting was arranged between my Thai go-between and her and her parents 3 days ago.

Crux of the meeting was that, money was mentioned, as expected, but no money asked for. The parents stated that if I love their daughter and am willing to take care of her and the nieces they are happy.

This is in stark contrast to last night when my Thai go-between was told by the daughter that an Aunt had advised them to go for 10 baht gold for the marriage. Seems this Aunt - quite wealthy and has land has heard about the arrangements - is now 'interfering' (for want of a better word) and the family are listening to her and, it seems, being swayed by the Aunt.

I accept the daughter may not be genuine, but as she is the first Thai lady to buy me presents and offer to pay her own way often enough, not to mention numerous other 'things' that can tell you about a person. She will go to her mother's stall, cook food and then bring it round to me. They often invite me round to their humble abode and feed me.

I buy flowers, take the family / nieces places and do other simple things so it is reciprocal.

Yet, I will walk away from this relationship if needs be, as I do not feel it is fair to ask me to pay 10 baht gold + for the 'party', buy all the stuff for the house for the nieces and for T as they do not have anything of their own except clothing. It will be me supporting T and the 2 nieces and happily doing so and me paying all the bills when T stops work.

As an aside, not many females can take my heart and the amount of those giving me their phone numbers, even though they all know I am with T, is incredible. Yet I discard those numbers - maybe foolishly, but when in love and falling further we do weird things

For those who are going to lambast me, go ahead, if it makes you feel better. But that is the rough background. Maybe too much background even

[Prakanong]

Difficult for you!!!

It seems to be the interfeering aunt - get your go between to talk more to the parents etc and emphasis how you are completely willing to take on the nieces etc - not many men would do that - many would not even take on the girls own kids.

That should tell them a lot about yuor intentions to their daughter that you care for the family.

[Huey]

Hmm Intumult, good background info on her, but how well are you matched? How old are you? Do you bring any kids/dependants to the table for her to care for? My inital reaction is if you gotta support kids or other family members, any signifigant sinsot or gold is off the table as the only reason why they would have the audasity to ask in this instance is because your not Thai.

[sweetchariot]

Intumult,

touching story, really. And I was fully with you...............until your penultimate sentence.

If you really are naive enough to think that these girls are giving you their numbers because you have a good heart, or are 'sexy man', then you really shouldn't be getting married.

You let yourself down bigstyle there mate, possibly the reason the money came up was to test your integrity and intentions, as if a total stranger on a web board can see through you, then I'm sure her family can.

[TopDogger]

How long have you been with her?

[toptuan]

I'm new to gold-shopping in Thailand. How much does 1 baht gold weigh (grams & ounces)?

[Prakanong]

I'm new to gold-shopping in Thailand. How much does 1 baht gold weigh (grams & ounces)?

1/2 a troy ounce?

15.1 gram

[hanibal7]

Jesus christ.how many more times do i need to here this.Why even come on here to tell us about your life.If you feel ok then do it,dont try to find excuses.You wont find people telling the truth on here.their experiences in thailand will shadow what they tell you.Follow your heart and be careful of your wallet unless you are very rich.

Edited April 11, 2008 by hanibal7

[a2396]

Depends on the Parents. My "opening gambit" sounded like this; The Dad "Well you know about the wedding there is a bride price, sin sot, I hate sin sot, I don't want your money, I have money, and when you get married I will give you some also. However our family is very large and it is our culture, what ever sin sot you want to give is just for show, I will give it back after the wedding. she will just keep what ever gold you give her and mabey she will want to give some small amount to her mother"

So as for the expenses, everyone is different I'll lay mine out for an idea

1) Prima Gold set roughly 6 baht I forgot, less than 100,000

2) Morning Thai style Wedding 9 monks at the family house, roughly 120 people not more than 50,000 (not sure because her mother paid for that)

3) Diamond Ring 300,000

4) Evening wedding party at the Banyan Tree Hotel in BKK, platinum package with food, Moet', and liqor about 1200 per head for 200 people..they had a minimum I think it was 150 people

5) Custom Made Wedding dress for evening 28,000

6) Dress rental for morning 4000

7) My Custome made suit for morning 12,000

8) My Custom made suit for evening 18,000

9) Pictures 40,000

10) Sin Sot: irrelevant I got it back

You may not need to do all that, you may just do the morning ceremony. I would base how much I need to pay based on what a Thai Man would pay if he were in your shoes, and what the parents are willing to do for you both.

WOW!! What a guy! I come up with a grand total of 742,000 bht ($24,000) for your wedding. I hope you threw in a trip to Pleasure Island as well (check out the movie reference, if you can find it.) I'm afraid to ask how much sin sod you gave, & got back. I am sure your little darling and her parents appreciate finding such a capable provider for her future security. I think all the other eligible gents on this forum would want to do that and more. If you have any brothers, let me know. I have several Issan ladies who would love to meet them. As for me, I'm glad I'm not a Thai man or at least that he's in not in my shoes or I in his. Bon appetit!!!

[a2396]

I'm new to gold-shopping in Thailand. How much does 1 baht gold weigh (grams & ounces)?

1/2 a troy ounce?

15.1 gram

So, 19 bht gold equals about $4,500 U.S.? $900 per oz X 5. Give 'um the gold & pay for small wedding, no sin sod bribery/ransom, end of story.

[Huey]

Depends on the Parents. My "opening gambit" sounded like this; The Dad "Well you know about the wedding there is a bride price, sin sot, I hate sin sot, I don't want your money, I have money, and when you get married I will give you some also. However our family is very large and it is our culture, what ever sin sot you want to give is just for show, I will give it back after the wedding. she will just keep what ever gold you give her and mabey she will want to give some small amount to her mother"

So as for the expenses, everyone is different I'll lay mine out for an idea

1) Prima Gold set roughly 6 baht I forgot, less than 100,000

2) Morning Thai style Wedding 9 monks at the family house, roughly 120 people not more than 50,000 (not sure because her mother paid for that)

3) Diamond Ring 300,000

4) Evening wedding party at the Banyan Tree Hotel in BKK, platinum package with food, Moet', and liqor about 1200 per head for 200 people..they had a minimum I think it was 150 people

5) Custom Made Wedding dress for evening 28,000

6) Dress rental for morning 4000

7) My Custome made suit for morning 12,000

8) My Custom made suit for evening 18,000

9) Pictures 40,000

10) Sin Sot: irrelevant I got it back

You may not need to do all that, you may just do the morning ceremony. I would base how much I need to pay based on what a Thai Man would pay if he were in your shoes, and what the parents are willing to do for you both.

WOW!! What a guy! I come up with a grand total of 742,000 bht ($24,000) for your wedding. I hope you threw in a trip to Pleasure Island as well (check out the movie reference, if you can find it.) I'm afraid to ask how much sin sod you gave, & got back. I am sure your little darling and her parents appreciate finding such a capable provider for her future security. I think all the other eligible gents on this forum would want to do that and more. If you have any brothers, let me know. I have several Issan ladies who would love to meet them. As for me, I'm glad I'm not a Thai man or at least that he's in not in my shoes or I in his. Bon appetit!!!

Heh, thanks Actually I didn't get the movie reference, However we did Swiss & Paris for the Honeymoon, and the sin sot show was kinda heafty too but it wasn't a big deal as I had 2 almost 3 years in Iraq with no bills to pay (been debt free for along time) to save up. As far as being happy with a capable provider, I like to think they are just happy with me. The Parents and I went head to head a couple times once over the "no over night rule" and another time over the mother's insistance of calling my fiance' fat all the time. I was very upfront and protective of her even though I was wrong the first time they respected my willingness to fight. The second time ended with the mother not mentioning it much more again.

As for brothers I'm a only child, and really...I was in Thailand, in Pattaya for a good 3 - 4 years before I left to Iraq and met my wife online. Not to knock Issan women, but I can honestly say I don't have any friends I would recommend one too for a wife. Just to be very clear, not that they don't make good wives for some men, I just personally don't know anyone I would recommend a Issan girl too.

[Beardog]

A 10 Baht wedding?

This is what the family wants or her. Whats wrong with 2 baht a simple sin sot & out the door.

Save your money- Buy a house-she could spend the money from the house later & if you last, you have cheap rent.

Sounds like your either getting cheesed or cheesing yourself.

[intumult]

Last night I discovered the sin sot is to be 10/10 not 10 Baht gold. The difference being 10 Baht gold = 138,500 Baht + 100,000 Baht cash (the second 10). Language difficulties as ever

So that would mean over a quarter million Baht minimum.

Huey - those were my thoughts exactly upon reflection and as I wrote the background earlier. Looks different when you put it in 'black and white' and does make you think

Beardog, I think they would be insulted at a 2/2 offer (2 baht gold + 20,000) but I am very tempted to make such an offer and move on. The heart does get hardened. Such a shame the Aunt ais sticking her nose in as I would happily have paid a reasonable amount, considering I'd be taking on the kids too.

My Thai friend refuses to talk to the family now since they altered everything so drastically. He is not a happy man.

On reflection I think I will let them stew and make them wait for an answer and the answer will be no.

I just feel it is 3 months of a relationship down the pan. From those strange beginnings of the relationship to the Aunt interfering. It is dam_ frustrating spending time on these relationships, but I suppose it is all part of the adventure of life here.

Looking on the brighter side, I have the house now and if this 10/10 offer is serious and the g/f feels she has to agree with the Aunt and her influence over the parents regarding the sin sot then I am at least free to start looking again The next few days will tell and as I am off to BKK Monday, then they will have to wait longer.

Well, now I have my answer of the true® cost of a 10 baht wedding, thanks.

Oh, yeah and I have learned we have a 'cat-house' here. Was shown it last night. 500 baht a go. For 1/4 million baht wedding, that is 500 sh*gs at 500 baht a go !! LOL

[Gertrude]

Last night I discovered the sin sot is to be 10/10 not 10 Baht gold. The difference being 10 Baht gold = 138,500 Baht + 100,000 Baht cash (the second 10). Language difficulties as ever

So that would mean over a quarter million Baht minimum.

Huey - those were my thoughts exactly upon reflection and as I wrote the background earlier. Looks different when you put it in 'black and white' and does make you think

Beardog, I think they would be insulted at a 2/2 offer (2 baht gold + 20,000) but I am very tempted to make such an offer and move on. The heart does get hardened. Such a shame the Aunt ais sticking her nose in as I would happily have paid a reasonable amount, considering I'd be taking on the kids too.

My Thai friend refuses to talk to the family now since they altered everything so drastically. He is not a happy man.

On reflection I think I will let them stew and make them wait for an answer and the answer will be no.

I just feel it is 3 months of a relationship down the pan. From those strange beginnings of the relationship to the Aunt interfering. It is dam_ frustrating spending time on these relationships, but I suppose it is all part of the adventure of life here.

Looking on the brighter side, I have the house now and if this 10/10 offer is serious and the g/f feels she has to agree with the Aunt and her influence over the parents regarding the sin sot then I am at least free to start looking again The next few days will tell and as I am off to BKK Monday, then they will have to wait longer.

Well, now I have my answer of the true® cost of a 10 baht wedding, thanks.

Oh, yeah and I have learned we have a 'cat-house' here. Was shown it last night. 500 baht a go. For 1/4 million baht wedding, that is 500 sh*gs at 500 baht a go !! LOL

Get out now, if you still can.

[Cuban]

Oh, yeah and I have learned we have a 'cat-house' here. Was shown it last night. 500 baht a go. For 1/4 million baht wedding, that is 500 sh*gs at 500 baht a go !! LOL

I am told there is a saying - "Paid sex is cheaper than free sex."

[a2396]

Last night I discovered the sin sot is to be 10/10 not 10 Baht gold. The difference being 10 Baht gold = 138,500 Baht + 100,000 Baht cash (the second 10). Language difficulties as ever

So that would mean over a quarter million Baht minimum.

Huey - those were my thoughts exactly upon reflection and as I wrote the background earlier. Looks different when you put it in 'black and white' and does make you think

Beardog, I think they would be insulted at a 2/2 offer (2 baht gold + 20,000) but I am very tempted to make such an offer and move on. The heart does get hardened. Such a shame the Aunt ais sticking her nose in as I would happily have paid a reasonable amount, considering I'd be taking on the kids too.

My Thai friend refuses to talk to the family now since they altered everything so drastically. He is not a happy man.

On reflection I think I will let them stew and make them wait for an answer and the answer will be no.

I just feel it is 3 months of a relationship down the pan. From those strange beginnings of the relationship to the Aunt interfering. It is dam_ frustrating spending time on these relationships, but I suppose it is all part of the adventure of life here.

Looking on the brighter side, I have the house now and if this 10/10 offer is serious and the g/f feels she has to agree with the Aunt and her influence over the parents regarding the sin sot then I am at least free to start looking again The next few days will tell and as I am off to BKK Monday, then they will have to wait longer.

Well, now I have my answer of the true® cost of a 10 baht wedding, thanks.

Oh, yeah and I have learned we have a 'cat-house' here. Was shown it last night. 500 baht a go. For 1/4 million baht wedding, that is 500 sh*gs at 500 baht a go !! LOL

Explain what "A Flying FucX on a Rolling Doughnut" means to them. An old idiom, from USA.

[intumult]

As an aside, I got a phone call from the g/f since my morning post. Family wanted me round their place tonight. Mother is cooking for me, it seems.

Such a shame (sarcasm) that I have already arranged to be out watching the football and having a drink or two at the cat-house tonight. The g/f did not sound best pleased when I told her where LOL.

So, on Sunday, I am invited instead. Not that I can imagine what they want to talk about - unless something has happened or been said that needs discussing. I wonder if Aunty will be there.

What are the odds this will be the 'Last Supper'?

You have to laugh at the irony of it

Roll on Monday. At least I'll be a long way away from it all in BKK

A2396 - would that be extra large hole in the doughnut???

[Kerryd]

What are the odds this will be the 'Last Supper'?

Possibly in the literal sense, as well as the figurative.

Might want to consider wearing a bullet-proof vest, sitting near the door, with your back to the wall, and the keys to your vehicle readily accessible.

[rgs2001uk]

As an aside, I got a phone call from the g/f since my morning post. Family wanted me round their place tonight. Mother is cooking for me, it seems.

Such a shame (sarcasm) that I have already arranged to be out watching the football and having a drink or two at the cat-house tonight. The g/f did not sound best pleased when I told her where LOL.

So, on Sunday, I am invited instead. Not that I can imagine what they want to talk about - unless something has happened or been said that needs discussing. I wonder if Aunty will be there.

What are the odds this will be the 'Last Supper'?

You have to laugh at the irony of it

Roll on Monday. At least I'll be a long way away from it all in BKK

A2396 - would that be extra large hole in the doughnut???

ah, you just have to love thai culture and parlour games,

you already know you are not being invited round for your benefit, their culture is about to bite them in the a*s, and the family are now trying to prevent a loss of face (on their part) by engaging in a damage limitation excercise.

they are now realising the consequences of their own greed, the fact that no thai man would have been interested in this woman is now compounded by the fact that the woman has been tainted by a farang, rendering the woman almost an outcast.

then of course there will have been the boasting and bragging ( trying to gain face and engaging in oneupmanship) to the neighbours, try and explain that little lot away, major loss of face.

better of out of it, if anything you were lucky, you got an insight into the type of family these people are, many guys only find out later,all you have lost is a bit of time, many have lost their lifes savings.

plenty of single girls out there who come with no baggage, start meeting them and you will realise what a lucky escape you had.

[owenjones]

I got married on 31st March in Uttaradit.

My 10/10 wedding cost me:

1] 10 x 15.2g gold = 150,000B.

2] 100,000B gift to Mum, which was returned in full.

3] 70,000B party for 120 people with all day music and dancing girls at night.

All-in-all, call it 250,000B

She paid for the clothes she wore from her own money and she paid for many little things that made all the difference.

Guests donated 18,000B, of which 10,000B was given to me to offset costs and I insisted that she keep the other 8,000B, rather than split it 50/50 as she suggested.

Her family has never asked me for anything in the four years I've known them.

[MISTERBONK]

Guests donated 18,000B, of which 10,000B was given to me to offset costs and I insisted that she keep the other 8,000B, rather than split it 50/50 as she suggested.

120 guests donated only 18,000bt. Cheap charlies! Average 150bt a head! Normal minimum for a wedding is 200bt with many usually giving 500 or 1000.

I wonder how many of the guests you knew, and I bet even your wife didn't know many of them. Western weddings best - just family and close friends - not hangers on and invitees for family to gain face,

[Beardog]

Last night I discovered the sin sot is to be 10/10 not 10 Baht gold. The difference being 10 Baht gold = 138,500 Baht + 100,000 Baht cash (the second 10). Language difficulties as ever

So that would mean over a quarter million Baht minimum.

Huey - those were my thoughts exactly upon reflection and as I wrote the background earlier. Looks different when you put it in 'black and white' and does make you think

Beardog, I think they would be insulted at a 2/2 offer (2 baht gold + 20,000) but I am very tempted to make such an offer and move on. The heart does get hardened. Such a shame the Aunt ais sticking her nose in as I would happily have paid a reasonable amount, considering I'd be taking on the kids too.

My Thai friend refuses to talk to the family now since they altered everything so drastically. He is not a happy man.

On reflection I think I will let them stew and make them wait for an answer and the answer will be no.

I just feel it is 3 months of a relationship down the pan. From those strange beginnings of the relationship to the Aunt interfering. It is dam_ frustrating spending time on these relationships, but I suppose it is all part of the adventure of life here.

Looking on the brighter side, I have the house now and if this 10/10 offer is serious and the g/f feels she has to agree with the Aunt and her influence over the parents regarding the sin sot then I am at least free to start looking again The next few days will tell and as I am off to BKK Monday, then they will have to wait longer.

Well, now I have my answer of the true® cost of a 10 baht wedding, thanks.

Oh, yeah and I have learned we have a 'cat-house' here. Was shown it last night. 500 baht a go. For 1/4 million baht wedding, that is 500 sh*gs at 500 baht a go !! LOL

Intumult, I didn't mean that to be insultive.

If the girl really likes you- It shouldn't be about money . The sin sot is a gift to her family, not life support. I know far to many people from Pattaya that have lost their ass on these high price semi arranged events! It seems 90% of the time it is mama pimping off their daughter for whatever they can make.(absolutely no reflection on you) & no I have not gone for the formal wedding ( having been married in the U.S. once before & don't see the reason{ for me} to be remarried)& I did in fact build her a house & 4 & 1/2 rai to go with it. The folks got 120,000 baht to help them out. I just can't see what the big money has got any correlation to the affirmation of ones love for his girl- Especially in a country known for scam artists in the sin sod dept. How ever way you go I do wish you all the luck & hope you can go the distance & always be happy, The money part is irrelevant- Except for stories to look back on.

My girl or her family was not in the least insulted by the arrangement she had 4 other offers of more sin sod for mama & turned them down & went with me- on the blind that I had any cash to give. we are working towards our 5th year being with each other now . The house we built/ land was bought 1 year later. It really should not have anything to do with money- It is entirely about loving & honoring each other & I would be hella cautious if I was pushed into this direction. If it is what you want to do & not there liking totally different . Please don't take offense as this is not meant to insult- just to give you another

possible perspective. I wish you well Have a great marriage.

[Dakhar]

I never did the Thai wedding thing. We were married at the court house in the US cost around 26$ or so.

Now after knowing my mother in law.... I realize just how lucky I am/was in doing that. I cringe at the thought of having to kneel before her with a pot of dosh.... Phhhha not even going to happen.

Must be one of the many reasons she disdains me.

As for the wife, I did pay for a (5 million Baht) 7 town house complex to be built, and of course it is all hers. (Thai law) Now we are considering a 7 million baht home... again all hers.

Sin Sod? No, but I think I have done enough thank you.