I’m Definitely Falling Apart.!

[Mobi]

Alcohol can and often does cause diarrhoea. Note that it might not have done so all of your life but people change over time.

I'm assuming you've already tried a few days 'on the trot' with no alcohol at all

Yes I have stopped from time to time. No noticeable difference.

I've now cut out the beer, and i will try to go a week without any alcohol and see what happens.

[PeaceBlondie]

Mobi, excuse me for being too strong a believer in abstinence, but with all your health problems, did you ever try going sober for more than a month, and see noticeable improvements in your health?

[Old Man River]

Alcohol can and often does cause diarrhoea. Note that it might not have done so all of your life but people change over time.

I'm assuming you've already tried a few days 'on the trot' with no alcohol at all

Yes I have stopped from time to time. No noticeable difference.

I've now cut out the beer, and i will try to go a week without any alcohol and see what happens.

I just cut out all alcohol for a month and for me, no noticeable changes. Of course, I was just fooling myself anyway, as I enjoy alcohol too much to have cut it out completely for the rest of my life.

Today, I took the opportunity to ask a doctor about two glasses of red wine per day and he said that amount (but no more) is good for you. He then added that he does this himself (he is a well respected cardiologist in Bangkok).

Hence, Mobi, if you don't see any noticeable differences by cutting it out completely and like me if you enjoy it too much to cut it out completely anyway, you might go the two glasses of red wine per day program.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Old Man River

[Old Man River]

She has stopped the Salofalk, and has prescribed Pariet and Mucosata.

if the salofalk (mesalazine) was controlling the diarrhoea , then why did the doctor advise you to stop taking it?

those tablets will have no effect on the stomach , they pass right through and are designed and manufactured so that they do not release their active pharmaceutical agent until they reach the colon. maybe i am missing something , but the advice to stop taking them makes no sense.

gastritis affects the stomach , not the colon. it sounds as if you have 2 separate complaints , each of which demands its own treatment.

pariet will reduce acid production in the stomach , and coupled with the mucostata will give the inflamed stomach and duodenal lining a chance to normalise.

if you decide to get a second opinion , i can recommend prof. nusont kladcharoen , at bumrungrads digestive diseases centre. in his late fifties and uk qualified , i found him to be professional , quietly spoken and thorough.

good luck

My Doc is Poungpen, also at the digestive diseases centre at Bumrungrad. Do you think it would be wise to seek a second opinion from the same department? I suppose the new Doc would have total access to my medical records, although Thais being Thais, he may be reluctant to question his colleague's diagnosis/treatment.

While assuredly there are good doctors at other hospitals in Bangkok, for the record, last week I did get a second opinion from a doctor in the same department at Bamrungrad. The second doctor (who I wanted to see in the first place, but he was out of the country) didn't say anything against the first, concurred on the condition, but had a completely different view on the way forward which makes a lot more sense to me.

Before I did this I talked to a friend at Bamrungrad (a doctor in a different department) and he told me not to be concerned with internal politics since I was the patient and my health was the most important thing. Hence, if this ever comes up again at any hospital don't let it concern you.

[Mobi]

While assuredly there are good doctors at other hospitals in Bangkok, for the record, last week I did get a second opinion from a doctor in the same department at Bamrungrad. The second doctor (who I wanted to see in the first place, but he was out of the country) didn't say anything against the first, concurred on the condition, but had a completely different view on the way forward which makes a lot more sense to me.

Before I did this I talked to a friend at Bamrungrad (a doctor in a different department) and he told me not to be concerned with internal politics since I was the patient and my health was the most important thing. Hence, if this ever comes up again at any hospital don't let it concern you.

That is good to know. However I now have an appointment at Bangkok Hospital with the Assoc Professor, as recommended by Sheryl, so I might as well go along with it.

I just received an email from Bumrungrad today, advising that they will send me a copy of my hospital records, upon production of a letter of authorisation and a copy of my passport.

I have decided to stop the alcohol until my appointment on 27th, and thereafter we will see.

[Mobi]

Mobi, excuse me for being too strong a believer in abstinence, but with all your health problems, did you ever try going sober for more than a month, and see noticeable improvements in your health?

I did stop drinking for nine months last year, but that was before I had my chronic stomach problems.

I did indeed feel pretty good, and all my other medical problems were well controlled.

[samuibeachcomber]

While assuredly there are good doctors at other hospitals in Bangkok, for the record, last week I did get a second opinion from a doctor in the same department at Bamrungrad. The second doctor (who I wanted to see in the first place, but he was out of the country) didn't say anything against the first, concurred on the condition, but had a completely different view on the way forward which makes a lot more sense to me.

Before I did this I talked to a friend at Bamrungrad (a doctor in a different department) and he told me not to be concerned with internal politics since I was the patient and my health was the most important thing. Hence, if this ever comes up again at any hospital don't let it concern you.

That is good to know. However I now have an appointment at Bangkok Hospital with the Assoc Professor, as recommended by Sheryl, so I might as well go along with it.

I just received an email from Bumrungrad today, advising that they will send me a copy of my hospital records, upon production of a letter of authorisation and a copy of my passport.

I have decided to stop the alcohol until my appointment on 27th, and thereafter we will see.

good luck mobi,keep us all posted.

[jhc]

That is good to know. However I now have an appointment at Bangkok Hospital with the Assoc Professor, as recommended by Sheryl, so I might as well go along with it.

I just received an email from Bumrungrad today, advising that they will send me a copy of my hospital records, upon production of a letter of authorisation and a copy of my passport.

I have decided to stop the alcohol until my appointment on 27th, and thereafter we will see.

If I am your shoes, I would stay away from those doctors et al. If you are having those problems then it must be your lifestyle over period of time that is the source of those problems (i.e. root cause of the problems). I have strong faith in Mother Nature, that is, remove the causes, then your body will start to heal over time. No gimmicks, magic cures and shortcuts at all.

Imagine just yourself and the nature in ideal climate (aka perfect nature world) (i.e. fruit growing areas, warm weather all year round) with no tools, no fire-making stuff, et al. I mean just you with your bare hands and the nature, nothing else. If you are hungry what would you eat? Would you try to catch and eat wild pig like wild cats do or would you eat ripe fruits right off from tree? You would be walking around a lot looking for fruits (as it is the least effort for us, laws of minimal effort) and climbing trees which are natural exercise in itself. Now imagine if you keeping eating those various delicious sweet ripe fruits with lots of walking and climbing around everyday for few months, what do you honestly think your overall health will be?

I bet your common health problems will be gone (as long it is not too much damaged which can be very difficult to heal in some cases) and you will be very lean and more active/feel better than you been in 20's or since you were a kid.

I have a good friend and he is 55 years old and he is 30 year raw low fat raw vegan (mostly fruits and greens). He has about 6% body fat and his athletic level is amazing that he easily put 20's something to shame in terms of fitness level to the point it is embarrassing to see 20's something huffing and puffing trying to keep up with him. He has not gotten sick day for 30 years and never took any drugs or medicines since he started doing low fat raw vegan.

If you decide to stick with your same old lifestyle then your body is not healing but keeping being degraded and all of those surgery and drugs are all "band-aid" solutions that does not solve the root cause of your problems. Get closer to the nature then it will start to solve your root cause of the problems you are having.

Make sense?

[webtv]

Mobi,

Also look at your acidity.. I guarantee you if you start looking at what your eating and stop drinking, many of your complaints will slowly fade away.

It is no secret that our bodies need to be alkaline to function properly and if they do not have a ph of 7.4, they don't run and "rust" from the inside out which causes illness / cancer etc.

I get sick of reading all these drug company sheep responses in the forum from guys that are pretty smart from what they post, but are so dumb in regards to how their body works.

Dr's are paid to make a judgment call and the majority are working to try and help you, but many are on commission from drug companies. At the end of the day its a business like any other business and works on profit margins so they can keep that granite entrance shining.. They only have the answers that were taught to them and like a mechanic or a carpenter, there are some great ones that also keep up to date on new technology and there are the ones that turn up, prescribe drugs and go home..

Health should be taken from their hands and put in your own hands.. Why would anyone let another person dictate to them what they should be taking and what part of their body needs to be removed this week?

It takes a little bit of study to work out the body..

It needs water as the body is 70% water. The water should be as oxygenated as you can get and you should drink lots of it.

It needs nutrients in the form of green leafy vegetables.

It needs to be alkaline.

Illness is mainly bacteria and bacteria cannot live where there is oxygen.. You PH your swimming pool, you oxygenate the water in your fish tank.. what happens if you dont? the fish die due to bacteria and your pool goes green due to algae..

P.S. Naam.. dont have the bypass surgery.. read up on vitamin c and heart complaints. You do not have to go through that procedure at all.

They linked cardio vascular disease and scurvy years ago.. I would bet my house that if you take 4000 mgs of Vitamin C every day for 4 weeks, you will be clear of any cardio vascular disease.. A 2 time Noble Prize winning Dr, the late Dr Pauling and Dr Rath proved that in the 90's.. Read the book "why Dont animals get heart attacks, But people do" and it will become clear... The majority of animals produce their own vitamin c, except guinea pigs and monkeys...

Keeping yourself healthy is not a great mystery, its basics really and I hope some of the people on this forum start looking out or your own well being and stop leaving it up to another person to make major decisions in your lives..

My background is sickness, drugs, alcohol... my future is anything I want it to be.. your is to.

Good Luck!

[Mobi]

I seem to be taking a turn for the worse.

Yesterday I had violent diarrhoea all day long, accompanied by stomach cramps and nausea - something I did not have before.

Today things have settled down a little, but I still have chronic diarrhoea.

I'm not sure if I should wait until the 27th to see a Doc as the medication doesn't seem to be working any more. But I doubt I could get an earlier appointment as even on 27th I am on standby.

I am not drinking at all.

[Crushdepth]

Illness is mainly bacteria and bacteria cannot live where there is oxygen.. You PH your swimming pool, you oxygenate the water in your fish tank.. what happens if you dont? the fish die due to bacteria and your pool goes green due to algae..

Look, this is just totally wrong. Many (most?) bacteria *thrive* on oxygen. Aerated fish tanks are packed with bacteria and your typical fish tank 'filter' is basically a device that provides lots of surface area for useful bacteria to grow on (and oxygen to keep them alive), which break down the toxic nitrogenous waste products that the fish produce. The presence of these bacteria significantly reduces the incidence of fish disease by improving the water quality in the tank.

Disease is also not necessarily 'caused' by bacteria or other pathogens. Disease is the result of a complicated interaction between the host, the environment and (sometimes) a pathogen. For example, you happily coexist with a huge load of potentially harmful bacteria and viruses in your everyday life, but usually your immune system keeps them in check. If you (say) get stressed out at work and your immune system becomes weakened, you are more likely to have a problem. In such a case is it the pathogen that made you sick, or the stress at work?

I get sick of reading all these drug company sheep responses in the forum from guys that are pretty smart from what they post, but are so dumb in regards to how their body works.

Bahhhhhhhh!!!!

Edited November 18, 2008 by Crushdepth

[geriatrickid]

'webtv' date='2008-11-17 23:30:28'

.P.S. Naam.. dont have the bypass surgery.. read up on vitamin c and heart complaints. You do not have to go through that procedure at all.

They linked cardio vascular disease and scurvy years ago.. I would bet my house that if you take 4000 mgs of Vitamin C every day for 4 weeks, you will be clear of any cardio vascular disease.. A 2 time Noble Prize winning Dr, the late Dr Pauling and Dr Rath proved that in the 90's.. Read the book "why Dont animals get heart attacks, But people do" and it will become clear... The majority of animals produce their own vitamin c, except guinea pigs and monkeys.

Please don't tell someone not to have bypass surgery when you have not examined the patient nor have been privy to his medical record and tests results. It's irresponsible.

The people you cite were never able to prove their vitamin theories. 50 years on and not one reputable clinical study to support linus' theory. Nutricicals & vitamins are a profitable business segment. Don't you think if the companies could come up with a way to show that Linus was right, they would have by now. It would certainly be lucrative to do so.

Linus had cardio vascular disease when he died of complications due to his prostate cancer. Know what? When you get old, it's common to have cardio vascular disease. It's part of the aging process and for some people based upon their genes, inevitable.

In the interim, read this

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelate...cs/pauling.html

Edited November 18, 2008 by geriatrickid

[wpcoe]

For probiotics: if any of the markets around you (Villa etc) sell homemade, unsweetened yogurt that may work. Otherwise you may have to try to get hold of the lactobacillus itself and I don't know a commercial source, maybe others can advise. The various detox spas like Health Oasis all have it and you might email them and see if you can buy from them. They have it as both rectal instillations and oral form, if you can arrange to get it I'd go both ends for good measure.

Since Mobi is in Pattaya, I'll add that I finally found acidophilis in Pattaya: at a hospital pharmacy, although it was Bangkok-Pattaya Hospital, which I believe Mobi is, shall we say, not on their frequent visitor plan. I was impressed that they kept it in a refrigerator, and put a block of ice in the little pharmacy bag to make sure it stayed chilled until I got home. I had my doctor "prescribe" it (at my insistence) after he had me on three rounds of different antibiotics for ear infections. He actually had to go on Google to find out what acidophilis (and the term "probiotics") was. He was surprised to then find his hospital pharmacy had it in stock!

I think it can be purchased at the pharmacy without a prescription, but I wanted the Rx so my health insurance would pay for it. It wasn't cheap, so I wonder why a money-making operation, such as B-P Hospital is reputed to be, doesn't routinely prescribe probiotics after each round of antibiotics.

[Tolley]

I think that Yakult has all the right things like lactobilius and bifidius and is also quite cheap?

[Sheryl]

Tolley: what and where is Yakult? This question of where to find probiotics arises often in this forum so would be good to know.

Totally agree with geraitrickid re the irresposnibility of telling people with serious medical conditions that they do not treatments physicians have prescribed. That goes for the well-meaning but way off base poster whio suggested the OP -- an insulin diabetic with significant cardiovascular disease and prostate disease --simply stop taking all his medications.

Don't care to get into an argument with the anti-modern medicine crowd but for the record, 3 points:

1. Most of the human body (i.e. the blood and most cellular fluid) requires a pH in the range of 7.35 - 7.45 and evolution has equipped us with very effective systems (including some fail safe mechanisms should one or the other conk out) for maintaining that essential balance. The lungs and the kidneys both serve to ensure that there is no deviation from this range, and in the absence of serious renal or pulmonary disease there is no need whatsoever to worry about how "acidic"or "alkaline"one's body is. Nothing you eat will alter your blood or cellular pH...it will only alter the gastric pH and even that, only temporarily.

2. Animals can indeed have heart attacks.

3. An adequate Vit C intake is indeed important to overall health but will certainly not render one immune to heart disease , cancer etc.

[Sheryl]

I seem to be taking a turn for the worse.

Yesterday I had violent diarrhoea all day long, accompanied by stomach cramps and nausea - something I did not have before.

Today things have settled down a little, but I still have chronic diarrhoea.

I'm not sure if I should wait until the 27th to see a Doc as the medication doesn't seem to be working any more. But I doubt I could get an earlier appointment as even on 27th I am on standby.

I am not drinking at all.

Mobi: This is worrying, do not wait until the 27th if this continues. If you can't get in to see Dr. Varocha then you might try this doctor at Bummers, he is an Assoc Prof at Chula and in the same center as your current doc:

Dr. Nusont Kladchareon

Speciality: Medicine, Gastroenterology & Hepatology

Language: Spoken: English,Thai

Qualifications: Medical School:

- University of Liverpool, U.K, 1973 (MB.,Ch B.)

Board Certifications:

- Internal Medicine, U.K., 1976 (MRCP, U.K.)

Associate Professor, Chulalongkorn University (1988-2004)

Special Clinical Interests: GI Endoscopy, Hepatitis, IBS.

Day Time Location

Mon 08:00 - 13:00 Digestive Disease Center

Mon 14:00 - 16:30 Digestive Disease Center

Tue 13:00 - 16:30 Digestive Disease Center

Wed 08:00 - 13:00 Digestive Disease Center

Wed 14:00 - 16:30 Digestive Disease Center

Thu 13:00 - 16:30 Digestive Disease Center

Fri 08:00 - 13:00 Digestive Disease Center

Fri 14:00 - 16:30 Digestive Disease Center

Sat 08:00 - 12:00 Digestive Disease Center

I don't have any feedback on him, just going by qualifications....and thinking that as your current doctor has said she has no idea what is going on there's not much to be gained by going bacjk to her, altho you could do so in a pinch.

Please do specifically ask about Tropical Sprue as FBN suggested. It is uncommon among Thais and it is quite likely that few if any Thai GI specialists have seen a case; I'm not sure if any of the infectious disease specialists would have either, but you caouls aks if they can refer you to an ID specialist with experience in it.

Good luck! And needless to say, with vomiting you need to stay on top of your blood sugars...

[Sheryl]

p.S. Forgot to mention -- the Ulsanic (sucralfater) may indeed interefe with the absorption of the Salofalk (or any other drug) if taken too close together. I know it is very difficult with all the medications you are on but try to take the Ulsanic at least 2 hours apart from anything else.

[taxexile]

This question of where to find probiotics arises often in this forum so would be good to know.

there is a capsule called INFLORAN , (made by laboratorio farmaceutico SIT specialita igiencio terapeutich SRL of italy.)

for the physiological reconstitution of the eubiotic intestinal flora , intestinal reconstitution and diarrhoea regulator .... reading from the packet.

they were prescribed for me by bumrungrad ( by dr. nusont) and were not expensive , i have bought them at regular pharmacies too. should be kept on ice ( bumrungrad gave them to me with a little ice block , but the other pharmacies didnt)

[webtv]

Tolley: what and where is Yakult? This question of where to find probiotics arises often in this forum so would be good to know.

Totally agree with geraitrickid re the irresposnibility of telling people with serious medical conditions that they do not treatments physicians have prescribed. That goes for the well-meaning but way off base poster whio suggested the OP -- an insulin diabetic with significant cardiovascular disease and prostate disease --simply stop taking all his medications.

Don't care to get into an argument with the anti-modern medicine crowd but for the record, 3 points:

1. Most of the human body (i.e. the blood and most cellular fluid) requires a pH in the range of 7.35 - 7.45 and evolution has equipped us with very effective systems (including some fail safe mechanisms should one or the other conk out) for maintaining that essential balance. The lungs and the kidneys both serve to ensure that there is no deviation from this range, and in the absence of serious renal or pulmonary disease there is no need whatsoever to worry about how "acidic"or "alkaline"one's body is. Nothing you eat will alter your blood or cellular pH...it will only alter the gastric pH and even that, only temporarily.

2. Animals can indeed have heart attacks.

3. An adequate Vit C intake is indeed important to overall health but will certainly not render one immune to heart disease , cancer etc.

You post with such authority and I disagree with all you have written in this post.

I realize your from the medical world Sheryl and your probably a very good care giver, but i have read to much research by GREAT Dr's, Scientists and the like to even get into a online discussion with such closed minded individuals. I know you mean well, but just because you write it, doesnt mean its true.

With Respect.

[webtv]

Illness is mainly bacteria and bacteria cannot live where there is oxygen.. You PH your swimming pool, you oxygenate the water in your fish tank.. what happens if you dont? the fish die due to bacteria and your pool goes green due to algae..

Look, this is just totally wrong. Many (most?) bacteria *thrive* on oxygen. Aerated fish tanks are packed with bacteria and your typical fish tank 'filter' is basically a device that provides lots of surface area for useful bacteria to grow on (and oxygen to keep them alive), which break down the toxic nitrogenous waste products that the fish produce. The presence of these bacteria significantly reduces the incidence of fish disease by improving the water quality in the tank.

Disease is also not necessarily 'caused' by bacteria or other pathogens. Disease is the result of a complicated interaction between the host, the environment and (sometimes) a pathogen. For example, you happily coexist with a huge load of potentially harmful bacteria and viruses in your everyday life, but usually your immune system keeps them in check. If you (say) get stressed out at work and your immune system becomes weakened, you are more likely to have a problem. In such a case is it the pathogen that made you sick, or the stress at work?

I get sick of reading all these drug company sheep responses in the forum from guys that are pretty smart from what they post, but are so dumb in regards to how their body works.

Bahhhhhhhh!!!!

Well.. Its all about balance when it comes to bacteria and the types of bacteria your are posting about. Bad bacteria cannot live in an anaerobic environment and oxygen therapy is used in extreme cases to kill it. This is why exercise and proper breathing is a crucial part of living.

Oxygen therapy can also stop the progression of gangrene infection, because the bacteria do not like oxygen. By halting the production of the bacteria, white blood cells are able to get in there and clean things up." In many instances, hyperbaric oxygen therapy supplements traditional treatments such as surgery and antibiotics.

Pom Mai Chai Bahh, Pom me fum kit!

[webtv]

'webtv' date='2008-11-17 23:30:28'

.P.S. Naam.. dont have the bypass surgery.. read up on vitamin c and heart complaints. You do not have to go through that procedure at all.

They linked cardio vascular disease and scurvy years ago.. I would bet my house that if you take 4000 mgs of Vitamin C every day for 4 weeks, you will be clear of any cardio vascular disease.. A 2 time Noble Prize winning Dr, the late Dr Pauling and Dr Rath proved that in the 90's.. Read the book "why Dont animals get heart attacks, But people do" and it will become clear... The majority of animals produce their own vitamin c, except guinea pigs and monkeys.

Please don't tell someone not to have bypass surgery when you have not examined the patient nor have been privy to his medical record and tests results. It's irresponsible.

The people you cite were never able to prove their vitamin theories. 50 years on and not one reputable clinical study to support linus' theory. Nutricicals & vitamins are a profitable business segment. Don't you think if the companies could come up with a way to show that Linus was right, they would have by now. It would certainly be lucrative to do so.

Linus had cardio vascular disease when he died of complications due to his prostate cancer. Know what? When you get old, it's common to have cardio vascular disease. It's part of the aging process and for some people based upon their genes, inevitable.

Regarding your

In the interim, read this

http

://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelate...s/pauling.html

^ quackwatch is for sheep, please dont throw garbage unfounded propoganda into the mix to make yourself look like a professor.

With respect, Quackwatch is a joke and should be treated as such.

I find it irresponsible to not explore other avenues and to not keep diagnosing the same drugs and the same treatments, that are total failures as cardio vascular disease will return again if not actually dealt with from a deeper level. Getting a DR to go in and clean out the arteries is not a cure, its a cleaning process and the same problems will keep coming back as they clearly do.. How many times to do you read, people having 3 and 4 bypass surgery's etc.. its getting beyond the ridiculous.... If people get off the drugs, go to a vegetable diet, drink clean water, detoxify the body and get the body back to a natural state of life it will be a better method of getting well, than throwing down bottles of medications weekly.

a link that should explain why I agree with Dr Rath.. There are plenty of others online that have some great points and YEARS or tests behind them.

http://www.encognitive.com/heart-disease/w...008-sep-12.html"Family Health News: Dr. Rath, your book is entitled "Eradicating Heart Disease." Do you really believe that this deadly disease can be eradicated?

Dr. Rath: Absolutely. There is an interesting phenomenon that startles most people when they hear about it: heart attack, stroke - cardiovascular disease in general -is virtually unknown among animals. It isn't impossible for it to happen, but it simply doesn't occur, regardless of the animal's diet, level of activity or other factors. And yet coronary and cardiovascular diseases are epidemics worldwide among people. They are the number one killers in all industrialized countries, accounting for about half of all deaths.

For years, scientists have puzzled over this phenomenon, and now at last research is shedding some light on it. With the exception of man and a few other species, animals synthesize the vitamin C they need in their bodies. We do not produce vitamin C, and must attain the levels we need from food and supplementation. If you don't get enough vitamin C, your body cannot produce adequate collagen and collagen is the substance which gives your cardiovascular system its structural integrity. Low vitamin C intake over many years leads to chronic instability of the vessel walls.

Deposits develop over time as a reaction to this instability. Once you understand heart disease as a vitamin deficiency, treatment is easy, non-intrusive and risk free.

But if it were as simple as a vitamin deficiency, wouldn't we know that by now? With the millions of dollars that have been spent on research in th is field, how can this just now be coming to light?

Dr. Rath: Well, I guess sometimes the simplest ideas can be the hardest to see. But there is also an economic factor involved. Vitamins are not patentable. Therefore, there has been little incentive for vital research and clinical studies.

Also, linking disease and nutrition challenges the way many doctors think. This is changing, and more and more doctors every year are considering nutritive factors. But this kind of vast orientation change takes time.

When you mention "vitamin deficiency," most people probably think of scurvy, the disease sailors got a hundred years or so ago when they failed to get any vitamin C in their diets. Is the vitamin deficiency that leads to heart disease the same kind ofthing?

Dr. Rath: As a matter of fact, it is the same thing. Heart disease is a form of early, or chronic, scurvy. When a person develops scurvy, their body is totally depleted of vitamin C and all bodily tissue degrades quickly. The first symptom you see is bleeding gums. And what is this bleeding? It is leaking of the blood vessel walls. As the scurvy progresses, the blood vessel walls----- not just the gums, but throughout the body-------- break down and are no longer able to contain blood as it is pumped through them by the heart. Eventually the blood escapes from the blood vessels, and death results.

The reason that a lack of vitamin C causes scurvy is the same as the reason that a shortage of vitamin C causes heart disease. Among the most important functions of vitamin C in the body is the production of collagen. Collagen molecules form the structure of the entire cardiovascular system. They function like the steel girders in a skyscraper - they form a supporting grid that assures the strength and stability of the veins, arteries and other blood vessels. With no vitamin C, collagen production ceases and in a relatively short time the entire system loses its structural integrity. This is scurvy.

Today most people get enough vitamin C to avoid getting scurvy. However, enough to prevent scurvy isn't necessarily enough to keep your cardiovascular system healthy. If your diet includes only minimal amounts of vitamin C, collagen production is reduced and blood vessels weaken. Tiny lesions develop in the vessel walls, and the blood vessels lose elasticity.

In order to combat this, the body sends clusters of fat molecules into the blood vessel walls, acting as repair agents to do the work that collagen should be doing. But like a plaster patch on a wall, the result is a repair that is not as strong or stable as the original structure. Over time, the body overshoots the repair mechanism. Arterial deposits are nothing other than nature's "plaster cast" against the weakness of the blood vessel walls. If these deposits develop in the arteries of the heart they lead to the heart attack. If they develop in the arteries of the brain they lead to stroke.

Are there other factors involved besides vitamin C?

Dr. Rath: Yes. Animals that do not produce vitamin C in their bodies, such as humans, do produce a specific type of fat molecule called lipoprotein (a). This molecule is naturally very sticky. The reason why cholesterol particles and other fatty particles deposit in the blood vessel wall is because some of them are coated with these sticky lipoprotein molecules, which form a biological "adhesive tape" around the fatty particle. So it is actually the stickiness of the lipoprotein particle which makes the fat globules accumulate inside the blood vessel wall, which leads to the buildup of deposits and eventually to the clogging of these arteries. In summary, the new understanding is that less stickiness means less risk for heart disease.

Of course, now that the stickiness has become the focus of therapeutic attention, it is logical to say, well, let's look for "Teflon" agents which can prevent and neutralize this stickiness, and thereby prevent the spread and buildup of new deposits, and more importantly reverse already existing deposits by loosening the fatty particles, the LDL and the other cholesterol particles, from the arterial wall and thereby decrease the clogging.

And are there actually "Teflon" agents that can do that?

Dr. Rath: Yes, there are. Part of the work I've been doing, and the patents I've received, involve using the natural amino acids lysine and proline for just this purpose. These two nutritional supplements are the first generation of "Teflon" agents that we know, and of course since they are natural supplements, eventually everyone can take immediate advantage of these new discoveries.

So there are two factors which make humans more prone to heart disease than animals?

Dr. Rath: Yes. First, animals produce a lot of their own vitamin C, which humans do not do. Our ancestors have lost this ability to produce their own vitamin C. All the vitamin C for our bodies must come from our diet.

The second factor is, animals do not have these sticky particles, they just have normal fat particles. This stickiness is the second reason why human beings are much more prone to this disease than any other living beings on this planet.

You hold a patent in this area. Can you explain that, and the studies that led to the patent?

Dr. Rath: Certainly. The scientific search - the drive - that I was involved in over the past eight years, started by looking inside the human arteries. What is it exactly that leads to the buildups of deposits, and kills millions of people every year from heart attacks and strokes?

The key we found was really the adhesive tape - the lipoprotein particle. No adhesive tape - no stickiness - no fatty deposit, period! So, the patent that we received comes directly from this discovery, and that it is the possibility to use the amino acids, lysine and proline, as agents to reverse these deposits, to get the fatty deposits out of the wall and thereby decrease the risk of heart disease. This is the core of the patent. Of course, in order to get the patents, you have to have a certain amount of experimental evidence, and first clinical evidence.

So, we already have a series of testimonials from people following this program, who have been taking higher amounts of vitamin C, lysine, proline and other important nutrients. A person who has angina pectoris experiences chest pain, which results from the narrowing of the coronary arteries. People following this program report to us regularly that within four to six weeks they almost entirely get rid of this chest pain.

The blood circulation through their coronary arteries has obviously improved, and therefore the chest pain, which is a sign of the suffocating heart muscle, does not occur anymore. Studies which will document the reversal of deposits in the coronary arteries of heart disease patients are in and the results are remarkable.

Beyond vitamin C, lysine and proline, are there other nutrients that you recommend supplementing?

Dr. Rath: Yes. What you have to keep in mind is that your cardiovascular system is your largest organ. One person's cardiovascular system has the surface area of about half a football field! This'system is made of millions of individual cells, and keeping those cells healthy is of paramount importance. So it is essential to follow a well-thought-out nutritional supplementation plan.

One important and powerful antioxidant I have researched is pycnogenol. I recommend this very highly. Pycnogenol is a little known extract of a European pine bark that is tremendously effective in fighting free radical damage. It is absorbed very quickly by the body, and helps potentiate vitamin C and other antioxidant activity. Pycnogenol is a fairly expensive nutrient, and rather hard to find, but it is very worthwhile to seek it out.

I also recommend including other antioxidants such as vitamin E and beta-carotene, along with vitamin C, for their protective ability. Moreover, many of the B vitamins are important as cell fuel, as are several key minerals and CoEnzyme QIO.

Are there any dangers in using these supplements in the amounts you recommend?

Dr. Rath: The answer is no. Clearly no.

So there is no downside and quite a bit of potential for preventing or even reversing heart disease.

Dr. Rath: Yes. I think the dimension of these discoveries has not yet been understood. What we're talking about is that today medicine has only surgical treatments for heart disease. We are now entering an era where we can reverse heart disease without surgery, based on nutritional supplements. These new safe, effective treatments represent a complete change in our approach to these health problems.

In Why Animals Don’t Get Heart Attacks, But People Do, Matthias Rath, M.D., an internationally respected cardiovascular researcher, asserts that high cholesterol is not the actual cause of heart disease. Bears, for example, have average cholesterol levels of 400 milligrams per deciliter of blood, but they don’t suffer heart attacks. Why? According to Dr. Rath, it is because bears produce large amounts of vitamin C, which optimizes collagen production and ensures maximum stability of their artery walls.

Dr. Rath’s research identifies the true cause of heart disease as a deficiency of vitamin C and other essential nutrients in the cells composing the heart and coronary arteries – not high cholesterol. Once the artery wall is weakened by vitamin deficiency, the body responds by producing excess cholesterol in the liver and depositing it in the injured artery. If this process continues without nutritional intervention, the buildup of fats in the arteries will eventually lead to atherosclerosis, the cause of heart attacks.

Using easy-to-understand language, Dr. Rath explains what the reader can do to prevent heart attacks and other cardiovascular conditions naturally. He presents his ten-step program for achieving natural cardiovascular health, as well as his clinically proven Cellular Health nutrient recommendations for preventing and improving heart disease, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart failure, arrhythmia, diabetes and other conditions. Dr. Rath even provides clinical proof – complete with the Ultrafast CT scans of patient’s arteries – of the natural reversal of atherosclerotic deposits, without angioplasty or bypass surgery.

This revised edition of Why Animals Don’t Get Heart Attacks, But People Do! has been updated with new research findings that corroborate Dr. Rath’s vitamin C deficiency-heart disease discovery, his cardiovascular presentation at Stanford Medical School, and information about the recent efforts of the pharmaceutical industry to suppress his medical breakthrough. Dr. Rath also exposes the pharmaceutical industry’s profit motives for pushing statin drugs, which do not target the true cause of heart disease and have dangerous side effects.

Why Animals Don’t Get Heart Attacks, But People Do! is the blueprint for a new health care system based on the needs of patients, not profits from statin drug sales. The information contained on its pages will empower readers to take control of their cardiovascular health and end their dependency on pharmaceutical drugs.

About the Author

Matthias Rath, M.D. is an internationally respected cardiovascular researcher who worked closely with the late two-time Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling, Ph.D. Dr. Rath was appointed by Pauling as the first director of cardiovascular research at the Linus Pauling Institute, formerly located in California.

The author of four bestselling health books, Dr. Rath developed the scientific concept of Cellular Medicine, which defines the deficiency of nutrients at the cellular level as a root cause of chronic diseases. His research has been published in numerous scientific journals, including the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine and the Journal of Applied Nutrition"

other links:

http://www.oralchelation.net/data/VitaminC/data20a.htm

"Dr. Thomas Levy's

eye-opening book, VITAMIN C, INFECTIOUS DISEASES, AND TOXINS. I recommend it to everyone who visits this forum."

http://owen.curezone.com/nutrition/benefitsofc.html

answer to your "semi question" / statements"

Don't you think if the companies could come up with a way to show that Linus was right, they would have by now. It would certainly be lucrative to do so.

Unfortunately there is no money in these types of cures due to not being able to patent a natural ingredient.. it comes down to money as in any business.

Did you realize you need $200,000,000 to even get a drug tested by the FDA.. Its a business that why!

another one of your "semi question" / statements"

Know what? When you get old, it's common to have cardio vascular disease. It's part of the aging process and for some people based upon their genes, inevitable.

Actually also not true.. The "healthy" that die of common natural causes is because of our DNA, it has NOTHING to do with cardio vascular disease at all..

an easy answer.... Think of our DNA as a shoe lace, when the shoe lace gets old, the "plastic bit" on the end "burrs" and the the shoe lace / DNA comes unraveled.. Old age is just like that and that is what we die of, it is not cardio vascular disease at all.

Now stop making things up and stop reading quackwatch.. Ill stand by for some of your facts and hopefully by the end of all thos, we can help Mobi and others become aware of other ways to fight illness.

regards

Edited November 18, 2008 by webtv

[Hairy]

2. Animals can indeed have heart attacks.

3. An adequate Vit C intake is indeed important to overall health but will certainly not render one immune to heart disease , cancer etc.

You post with such authority and I disagree with all you have written in this post.

I realize your from the medical world Sheryl and your probably a very good care giver, but i have read to much research by GREAT Dr's, Scientists and the like to even get into a online discussion with such closed minded individuals. I know you mean well, but just because you write it, doesnt mean its true.

With Respect.

Glad that you claim to have respect for her, since she's a lot more correct than you are. In this and other threads, you've repeatedly posted all sorts of nonsense with nothing to back it up beyond quotations from websites run by quack scammers.

Illness is mainly bacteria and bacteria cannot live where there is oxygen.. You PH your swimming pool, you oxygenate the water in your fish tank.. what happens if you dont? the fish die due to bacteria and your pool goes green due to algae..

Look, this is just totally wrong. Many (most?) bacteria *thrive* on oxygen. Aerated fish tanks are packed with bacteria and your typical fish tank 'filter' is basically a device that provides lots of surface area for useful bacteria to grow on (and oxygen to keep them alive), which break down the toxic nitrogenous waste products that the fish produce. The presence of these bacteria significantly reduces the incidence of fish disease by improving the water quality in the tank.

Disease is also not necessarily 'caused' by bacteria or other pathogens. Disease is the result of a complicated interaction between the host, the environment and (sometimes) a pathogen. For example, you happily coexist with a huge load of potentially harmful bacteria and viruses in your everyday life, but usually your immune system keeps them in check. If you (say) get stressed out at work and your immune system becomes weakened, you are more likely to have a problem. In such a case is it the pathogen that made you sick, or the stress at work?

I get sick of reading all these drug company sheep responses in the forum from guys that are pretty smart from what they post, but are so dumb in regards to how their body works.

Bahhhhhhhh!!!!

Well.. Its all about balance when it comes to bacteria and the types of bacteria your are posting about. Bad bacteria cannot live in an anaerobic environment and oxygen therapy is used in extreme cases to kill it. This is why exercise and proper breathing is a crucial part of living.

Oxygen therapy can also stop the progression of gangrene infection, because the bacteria do not like oxygen. By halting the production of the bacteria, white blood cells are able to get in there and clean things up." In many instances, hyperbaric oxygen therapy supplements traditional treatments such as surgery and antibiotics.

Pom Mai Chai Bahh, Pom me fum kit!

Not only can bad bacteria live in an anaerobic environment, you even name one -- gangrene -- in your very next paragraph that does. Then you point out that oxygen stops its progression. Apparently you don't even know what the words mean.

[Tolley]

Sheryl

You can buy Yakult in just about any 7 11 store and mighty cheap it is too.

No need to waste money on expensive products as Yakult is effective and cheap.

You should take it after any course of antibiotics to restore all the good bacteria in your gut.

Yakult is a fermented milk drink that contains a very high concentration of a unique, beneficial bacterium called Lactobacillus casei Shirota strain. This bacteria was named after Dr Shirota and is exclusive to Yakult. It is pronounced as follows: Lack-toe-bass-ill-us case-e-i Shirota strain.

Each one of us has around 100 trillion bacteria in our intestines. Some of these are beneficial and some are potentially harmful. To work efficiently our digestive system needs a healthy balance where the number of beneficial bacteria outnumber those that are potentially harmful.

The unique beneficial bacteria in Yakult are strong enough to survive the journey through the stomach's gastric juices to reach the small intestine alive, where they help maintain an ideal balance of beneficial bacteria. Each 65ml bottle contains hundreds of millions of these highly acid resistant bacteria, which are exclusive to Yakult

[Crushdepth]

but i have read to much research by GREAT Dr's, Scientists and the like to even get into a online discussion with such closed minded individuals.

Proponents of alternative health therapies often refer to 'non-believers' as being closed minded. But they usually won't listen and disregard any evidence put their way, so who is closed minded?

Pom Mai Chai Bahh, Pom me fum kit! smile.gif

I didn't mean you were crazy, it was my lame attempt at making sheep noises!!!

Edited November 19, 2008 by Crushdepth

[geriatrickid]

webtv, before you lash out at people I wish to remind you that you you are putting forward positions that have not been demonstrated or proven.

I will say it again; Your views on vitamins have not been supported by clinical studies. There was a conference in Maryland this week sponsored by the American Association of Cancer Researchers. It's a conference that attracts many of the worlds top cancer researchers. On Sunday, study results were released that disproved the link between Vitamins C&E and their preventative benefits for cancer. The study was funded in part by vitamin manufacturers who had hoped that the study would show a benefit.

No Protective Effect on Cancer from Long-Term Vitamin E or Vitamin C Supplementation November 16, 2008 WASHINGTON, D.C. - Data from a large-scale prevention trial presented at the American Association for Cancer Research's Seventh Annual International Conference on Frontiers in Cancer Prevention Research show no protective effect from vitamin E on prostate cancer or vitamin C supplementation on total cancer.

This is one of several studies released disproving Linus the chemist's theory. It is decisive because it was long term (10 years) and large. Key points are;

- involved 14,641 doctors (as subjects), 50 or older, including 1,274 who had cancer when or before the study started in 1997. They were included so scientists could see whether the vitamins could prevent a second cancer.

- Participants were put into four groups and given vitamin E, vitamin C, both, or placebo pills. After an average of eight years, there were 1,929 cases of cancer, including 1,013 cases of prostate cancer, which many had hoped vitamin E would prevent.

-"After nearly 10 years of supplementation with either vitamin E or vitamin C, we found no evidence supporting the use of either supplement in the prevention of cancer," said Howard D. Sesso, Sc.D., M.P.H., an assistant professor of medicine at Brigham and Women's Hospital. "While vitamin E and C supplement use did not produce any protective benefits, they also did not cause any harm,"

Can you cite any current long term studies that support your position? I do not think you can.

As for your other comments on Dr. Mathias Rath, please note that he is not a clinical researcher (actual large or multiple patient studies) and I believe that none of his claims on cancer and Vitamin C have been proven in a clinical study. Some people may know this fellow because of his conspiracy views on HIV and Aids. I am unaware of one recognized world authority on HIV and Aids that accept his theories, some of which I call crackpot.

Having an MD doesn't denote expertise. You can be the best neurosurgeon in the world, but that doesn't make you an expert on diabetes. Timothy Leary had a PhD. in psychology and was a proponent of LSD use. One need only look and listen to the slurred nonsensical interviews with Dr. Leary to see where his position led him. I put Dr. Rath in the same category, although not as extreme.

I feel sorry for people like Sheryl that have to show restraint here. This is probably one of the hardest forums to moderate because one has to balance compassion with responsible information and then deliver it in a friendly way to people that are stressed from a health concern. The forum is a place where people with a health issue can go and ask someone that has had similar experiences. It is a place to inquire about resources. You have some people here with difficult conditions and they deserve to have access to information that can be used immediately, not a lecture on esoteric notions.

Edited November 19, 2008 by geriatrickid

[taxexile]

You have some people here with difficult conditions and they deserve to have access to information that can be used immediately, not a lecture on esoteric notions.

spot on , well said.

[Sheryl]

A completely off-topic post arguing about the causes of cancer (which the OP does not have as far as is known) has been deleted.

And from here on out, any other posts that divert this thread from the specific health concern it is about to generalized debating about pros and cons of medical science, alternative treatments or whatver will also be deleted as off topic.

(I might add that in my experience with this forum, such debates never get anywhere)

[FBN]

'webtv' date='2008-11-17 23:30:28'

.P.S. Naam.. dont have the bypass surgery.. read up on vitamin c and heart complaints. You do not have to go through that procedure at all.

They linked cardio vascular disease and scurvy years ago.. I would bet my house that if you take 4000 mgs of Vitamin C every day for 4 weeks, you will be clear of any cardio vascular disease.. A 2 time Noble Prize winning Dr, the late Dr Pauling and Dr Rath proved that in the 90's.. Read the book "why Dont animals get heart attacks, But people do" and it will become clear... The majority of animals produce their own vitamin c, except guinea pigs and monkeys.

Please don't tell someone not to have bypass surgery when you have not examined the patient nor have been privy to his medical record and tests results. It's irresponsible.

The people you cite were never able to prove their vitamin theories. 50 years on and not one reputable clinical study to support linus' theory. Nutricicals & vitamins are a profitable business segment. Don't you think if the companies could come up with a way to show that Linus was right, they would have by now. It would certainly be lucrative to do so.

Linus had cardio vascular disease when he died of complications due to his prostate cancer. Know what? When you get old, it's common to have cardio vascular disease. It's part of the aging process and for some people based upon their genes, inevitable.

In the interim, read this

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelate...cs/pauling.html

Lunacy and Logic uncomfortable bedfellows make...

[Mobi]

p.S. Forgot to mention -- the Ulsanic (sucralfater) may indeed interefe with the absorption of the Salofalk (or any other drug) if taken too close together. I know it is very difficult with all the medications you are on but try to take the Ulsanic at least 2 hours apart from anything else.

I will try this, but it will mean setting my alarm early as both meds need to be taken at least one hour before eating.

I'm feeling a bit better today but the diarrhoea hasn't gone away yet. I'll give it another day or so and see if I continue to improve.

[Mobi]

I think that Yakult has all the right things like lactobilius and bifidius and is also quite cheap?

The problem is that it contains a fair amount of sugar, and I am diabetic:

"Standard Yakult contains 18g of sugar for every 100g, but comes in 65 mL bottles. This concentration is higher than the level defined as “HIGH” by the UK Food Standards Agency (described for concentrations of sugar above 15g per 100g). As a comparison Coca-Cola and orange juices are in the range of 10g of sugar per 100g, but with a serving size usually higher than 250 ml the total sugar quantity is higher"

How many bottles should I take a day, I wonder, and will the benefits out way the negatives of having to consume sugar?