Us Embassy Is Enough To Make A Grown Man Cry!

[wamberal]

My wife and I have been married for almost ten years. It was the first marriage for both of us. She has a university degree, I had retired early, but am financially very secure.

We were introduced by mutual friends in Thailand, she then took a year's leave absence from her job with a mult-national company to visit Australia. After a few months we decided to get married, which we did, in a church (she was baptised a few weeks earlier).

We had to go for an interview at the appropriate government agency in Australia. At first the interview included both of us, until she made a small mistake ( not being fluent in English, she answered a question about meeting my family members incorrectly). At that point the interviewer took her into an office on her own. After 30 minutes or so they came out, my wife had been crying. The interviewer (a female of Asian descent herself) apologised, but it was pretty obvious that my wife had been totally unnecessarily grilled.

Yes, I am 18 years older than her, but in all other respects this was, and is, a totally legitimate relationship.

[keith7777]

When people cheer from the gallery in support of laws limiting immigration or laws strengthening 'immigration security' - Then this is the result.

Sadly this is not an uncommon situation and will continue to be common so long as the US (and other governments) deal with the symptoms of today's problems rather than the causes.

[keith7777]

When people cheer from the gallery in support of laws limiting immigration or laws strengthening 'immigration security' - Then this is the result.

Sadly this is not an uncommon situation and will continue to be common so long as the US (and other governments) deal with the symptoms of today's problems rather than the causes.

Don't you guys get it, if you don't come into the US illegally they do not want you. I have tried to get my lady to the US and have failed also. Isn't it just great that you can go to Mexican or Canada and walk across the boarder, yet you cannot get in legally.

[siamamerican]

The process isn't that bad. A little stressful yes, but if you complete the required docs and have minimal financial resources, your wife can get a visa. For a fiancé visa, the American sponsor needs to only to show his income is not much more than the published poverty level.

The problem I had with the process was that I had little control over it. Other than submitting initial application, the applicant just has to patiently wait for a reply. The government isn't a business and doesn't give you any turnaround guarantees. In actuality they state the worst case scenario. In my case each application was decisioned in 1/3 the time I was told by immigration.

It really helps depending on which part of the country you live in. Some of the service centers in the US take twice as long as others to process the applications. If you are lucky and are in the area for the Vermont Service Center, it is the fastest by far, or at least used to be a couple of years ago.

Security checks can take a long time, especially if your fiance has a very common name.

That is what I was told by immigration, but I think they were just setting low expectations. I moved around quite a bit after returning to the states and had to switch service centers 3 times. I started in Phoenix, then the service center south of San Diego ( forgot the name), and ended up in San Fran. These centers are extremely busy and the turn around time was great in all three. Maybe I was just lucky, but I've read other posts stating that the turn around times were not as bad as they were told by immigration.

My wife applied for citizenship in December and her test is next week! I thought it would take at least a year.

[siamamerican]

When people cheer from the gallery in support of laws limiting immigration or laws strengthening 'immigration security' - Then this is the result.

Sadly this is not an uncommon situation and will continue to be common so long as the US (and other governments) deal with the symptoms of today's problems rather than the causes.

Don't you guys get it, if you don't come into the US illegally they do not want you. I have tried to get my lady to the US and have failed also. Isn't it just great that you can go to Mexican or Canada and walk across the boarder, yet you cannot get in legally.

Keith,

What type of visa did you apply for? Why were you declined? Someone else said that applications are denied without explanation and I was hoping you could confirm this isn't true. If it is, I would be very upset.

I would have been denied if I hadn't got a family member to step in as the sponsor. I hadn't worked in 4 years, had no debt, but little savings. A year after arriving in the states, I met with immigration and was told I could sponsor my wife. I was just getting back on my feet financially, but the requirements are hard to meet.

[maccaroni man]

I'm sure if the woman deposited 10 or 20 thousand dollars in a US bank and showed a monthly income of 1600$ to 2100$ for the rest of her life, she would not have these problems. This is what we all must do here, and which you find unfair when the US does it.

Spot on! and the last i read the US with all it's rules, still allows more immigrants than any other country in the world. Hmm go figure......

[siamamerican]

Edit previous post:

"I was just getting back on my feet financially, but the requirements are hard to meet".

I meant to say, "the requirements aren't hard to meet"

[koheesti]

Spot on! and the last i read the US with all it's rules, still allows more immigrants than any other country in the world. Hmm go figure......

Edited April 14, 2008 by koheesti

[pampal]

Legal spouses should be let in

[way2muchcoffee]

I believe governments should not be in the business of separating families. All countries should grant immigration and Visa rights in either country to any legally married couple. There should be some kind of litmus test to prove that the marriage is legitimate, but once passed the right of entry, securing income, purchasing land, and remaining in either country should be automatic. Anything less is immoral.

Edited April 14, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[thaihome]

Legal spouses should be let in

They generally are, though the process to immigrate, if the USC spouse does not live in the foreign country, can take a long while and can be a bureaucratic nightmare. Oh, and you do have to prove you can live above the poverty level.

Tourist visas when the USC spouse resides in the foreign country are almost automatic providing you know how to fill out a basic form and understand what they are looking for (and don't expect special treatment because you think you fall in some proverbial crack). If the spouse does not reside in the foreign country, they can be understandably very problematic

TH

[HAL9000]

It is no cakewalk trying to bring a foreign spouse of fiancee into USA. I went through this about 10 years ago, when I brought my Malaysian fiancee to live with me (later married). There could have been any number of problems with his application, the first & foremost was whether he had enough income to support them. It is also a "tough row to hoe" to get her permanent residency, if & when she gets an entry visa. The whole immigration system is a frustrating mess. It seems the ones who shoudl be kept out get in and the ones who should get in are kept out.

It used to be much easier. I married a foreigner on my first marriage in 1982. I was a student with no income. All I had to do was interview with the consul to determine it was a bona fide marriage.

[klikster]

The bottom line in the OP's story appears to be that the guy did not have adequate money. Living in USA as a married couple with inadequate money & probably no health care is no picnic. He is likely better off in Thailand.

If you read between the first and "bottom line", you might chance a few guesses:

1 - With 25 years of Army service .. and discharged honorably .. he should be entitled to a military pension ..

2 - He will have full VA medical benefits

3 - If that pension does not allow him to live above the poverty line in the US, there is much more wrong with our (USA) system than the attitudes of low-level bureaucrats.

Being " .. better off in Thailand" is not a decision that should be made on behalf of a man who spent 25 years defending his country.

[thaiwander]

it's all about fear.

surrounded by a massive wall with blockades impeding road traffic and parking prohibited within a reasonable walking distance (probably defined as a bomb blast radius), the american consulate is a valid representation of america itself.

going into the consulate one is required to wait outside until the person in front has been cleared before access is granted. then the obligatory empty pockets, x-ray, and magic wand wave in front of several guards. then through a complex of strong locked doors.

all this to protect the mightiest country in the world from ... me.

meanwhile, other embassies will have a couple of folks standing around looking bored. what, me worry expressions on their faces and smiles as they hold open doors.

oh, how this relates to the post. immigration policy = fear.

sorry for the guy who put in his 25 years killing others to preserve what he now sees as a false ideal. sorry for those who had to die.

not too sorry for america though.

Anyone who goes to the embassy is much safer because of the security checks. The embassies are all "hard targets" for terrorists, and at the same time also have to be accessable to everyone. Maybe it's OK for other countries to be less uptight about security, but not America. Whether you agree or disagree with American foreign policy (or immigration policy), the simple point remains that the American embassy cannot take the laid back attitude about security that you find at other embassies. It would be irresponsible if they did. If you lost a friend or family member in an attack, you'd probably wonder why they didn't have more and better security.

As for the poor guy with 25 years service, it's not really fair to judge the situation without all the facts. Maybe his wife was married 6 times previously or had a criminal record or he just didn't have all the right documents. I feel bad for him though. I'm guessing the low level employee that turned him down felt bad too. I've never been through the process but my brother in law did and he said the interview and whole process was time consuming but doable. I'm curious to hear from more people firsthand if they felt like the process was fair.

[thaiwander]

The US government talks about "family values", but its immigration policy makes no allowances for keeping families together.

I'm a US citizen, 60 years old, and have lived in Thailand for 20 years. I am married to a Thai and have 3 children ages 2-16, all of whom are dual US/Thai citizens. I would like them to go to school in the USA, but this would mean separating our family because I cannot bring my wife with us.

I have to show an income of $31,000 per year for a family of 5. I make about $25,000 in Thailand, but going back to the USA at my age all I could expect to get is minimum wage, between $12-16,000 depending on the state.

Could we live on that? In a semi-rural town with a small rented house or trailer, a vegetable garden, a few chickens... of course we could. My children could get a free English-language education, go to a state college, etc.

But it will never happen because the US government has told me that my wife will never be able get a visa.

I definitely feel for you man. You're probably better off in Thailand anyway, $25,000/year goes a heck of a lot farther here than $16000/year in America. Maybe they can still go to state college in the US though since they're dual citizens?

[Dustoff]

Anyone who goes to the embassy is much safer because of the security checks. The embassies are all "hard targets" for terrorists, and at the same time also have to be accessable to everyone. Maybe it's OK for other countries to be less uptight about security, but not America. Whether you agree or disagree with American foreign policy (or immigration policy), the simple point remains that the American embassy cannot take the laid back attitude about security that you find at other embassies. It would be irresponsible if they did. If you lost a friend or family member in an attack, you'd probably wonder why they didn't have more and better security.

Right ON! Security is of incredible importance at the US Embassies and Consulates and when considering any applications for immigration, even from legal and loving spouses of America's loyal veterans.

As an American combat veteran, I have to say that I cannot WAIT for all of my fellow Americans to belittle "less uptight nations's Embassies", be responsible, and seal ourselves into impregnable bunkers and never question why..

"Yessir, you fought bravely for your country and you are certainly welcome to come home - just don't bring any furryners with you, including the mother of your children, because we just don't trust your judgment..."

Edited April 15, 2008 by Dustoff

[thaiwander]

Anyone who goes to the embassy is much safer because of the security checks. The embassies are all "hard targets" for terrorists, and at the same time also have to be accessable to everyone. Maybe it's OK for other countries to be less uptight about security, but not America. Whether you agree or disagree with American foreign policy (or immigration policy), the simple point remains that the American embassy cannot take the laid back attitude about security that you find at other embassies. It would be irresponsible if they did. If you lost a friend or family member in an attack, you'd probably wonder why they didn't have more and better security.

Right ON! Security is of incredible importance at the US Embassies and Consulates and when considering any applications for immigration, even from legal and loving spouses of America's loyal veterans.

As an American combat veteran, I have to say that I cannot WAIT for all of my fellow Americans to belittle "less uptight nations's Embassies", be responsible, and seal ourselves into impregnable bunkers and never question why..

"Yessir, you fought bravely for your country and you are certainly welcome to come home - just don't bring any furryners with you, including the mother of your children, because we just don't trust your judgment..."

Hey that's a great idea, people wanting to go inside embassies just check a box saying what type of visa they want, then they can bypass security if it's one type or another... I'm sure a terrorist won't ever figure out how to get around it...

Oh wait then how about I can show my American passport and military ID to bypass security, oh wait Timothy McVeigh was an American vet wasn't he?

Also, I wasn't belittling other embassies security posture. Many other countries aren't actively targeted by terrorists worldwide. (Again not a pro/anti-policy argument, just stating the constant threat). I'm fairly certain that America allows the greatest amount of legal immigration in the world. So your quote is completely off base, especially since the mother of American children have an easier time getting a visa than they would otherwise.

Not to be completely negative, I think the WHY point you bring up is relevant, but until that's figured out I'll be much more happy and safe with the security checkpoint.

Cheers.

[nikster]

It used to be much easier. I married a foreigner on my first marriage in 1982. I was a student with no income. All I had to do was interview with the consul to determine it was a bona fide marriage.

And that's, in my opinion, exactly the way it should be. Whether you want to be "tough" on immigration or not - it's detrimental to the state to split up families.

In Europe, I can bring my spouse to the country instantly, then once she's there she can apply for permanent residency. This is not about fake marriages - there are procedures for that, and in the USA they are, rightfully, enforced rigorously. But real marriages, where the couple has a child together, it should be no question that they can all come, at any time, and live and work there if they want.

What about poverty levels? Now if I don't have money I lose my citizen rights? I don't get that. I can understand that my new spouse doesn't qualify for any kind of state money, but not let her in?

[Ken]

I personally think whoever runs the visa section should be fired. Public servants indeed. I would think that since they do most of their business with automated computer messages, they have plenty of time to read Thai Visa. There is no one who will talk to me. I was told I needed a PIN number to speak with someone on the phone. If I remember correctly the PIN cost me $20. That information was given to me when I took my Thai wife with me to the embassy. After we returned home, I paid for my PIN and made a phone call. The guy who took my call could give me NO information other than to tell me I needed to make an appointment and IF a visa was granted, it had to be used on the dates listed on the visa. If it was not used within the dates, the visa would be void.

I don't fall into any of the regular situations. By that I mean that we have no intention of EVER living in the US. My parents are both still alive and are 87 years old. All I want is in the event of an emergency, to be able to take my wife, get on a plane and go. Why is that so difficult and why can't anyone tell me why it is a problem? It REALLY stinks that there is no one at the US embassy who has time to listen to their citizens needs. Emails are referred to other email addresses and NONE are answered by live breathing people.

I'm with you on this one Gary. I tried to get a tourist visa 3 years ago for my wife. Just wanted to take her for a couple of weeks to see my Mom (80 years old) and sisters. It was one big hassle to apply, the interviewer would not speak Thai with my wife (though I checked the "speak Thai" box on the application) and in the end he refused the visa as he said I didn't give him enough proof that we would return to Thailand. Bull sh*t!

[PadThaiGuy]

Perhaps the US Embassy would pass out VISAs more easily if tens of thousands of Thais did not lie on previous applications and then stay illegally in the States.

[Gary A]

Perhaps the US Embassy would pass out VISAs more easily if tens of thousands of Thais did not lie on previous applications and then stay illegally in the States.

Tens of thousands of Thais are NOT my legal wife. You obviously think that all situations are the same. Do you work at the embassy?

[Beardog]

Perhaps the US Embassy would pass out VISAs more easily if tens of thousands of Thais did not lie on previous applications and then stay illegally in the States.

Or no visa needed if your a Mexican....just walk across the Tijuana border , usually you can walk right through the Mexican border with the governments approval & pick up a nifty Garmin GPS for free on the way out. U.S. is so busy looking for some dork to transport some weed & let the usual 20 - 50 people walk right down the freeway. Last weekend My friend in San Diego area spent Saturday in TJ & he said at least 20 people skated onto the freeway. By the time your a mile down to the st. ynes overpass your in.......Just wait for the next amnesty coming up. hel_l you can even sell your GPS to get you started, Along with your free food stamps & assistance. The more kids you pump out the more you get. In 82-85 we used to bet a six pack how many swimmers& runners there would be in a 1/2 an hour period. Now you can bring a couple taco's & take a little siesta on your leisurely walk & laugh at the border guards

No visa needed if your the right race.

Only the people who try to be legal have a hard time. And that pretty much sums up our security with the Visas.No need to lie just have a nice walk down the freeway!

[PadThaiGuy]

Perhaps the US Embassy would pass out VISAs more easily if tens of thousands of Thais did not lie on previous applications and then stay illegally in the States.

Tens of thousands of Thais are NOT my legal wife. You obviously think that all situations are the same. Do you work at the embassy?

A better system needs to be out in place, I agree.

Gary, what do you want them to do?

Believe everybody after being lied to over and over and over....?

It's a shame that you can't get your wife a VISA but the Thai travelers that preceeded you have not fullfilled their obligations and are now illegal. Not just a few but thousands and thousands.

If you contact your Congressmans office, they usually have full time staff working on immigration issues and may help you.

[Gary A]

Perhaps the US Embassy would pass out VISAs more easily if tens of thousands of Thais did not lie on previous applications and then stay illegally in the States.

Tens of thousands of Thais are NOT my legal wife. You obviously think that all situations are the same. Do you work at the embassy?

A better system needs to be out in place, I agree.

Gary, what do you want them to do?

Believe everybody after being lied to over and over and over....?

It's a shame that you can't get your wife a VISA but the Thai travelers that preceeded you have not fullfilled their obligations and are now illegal. Not just a few but thousands and thousands.

If you contact your Congressmans office, they usually have full time staff working on immigration issues and may help you.

The first place to start would be to have someone to talk to. Failing that a human answering an email would help. I paid $20 for a phone call to talk to a guy who didn't know ANYTHING. The system stinks, that's a fact. I have no doubt that my wife can get a visa, BUT, I only have the need to go in an emergency. I have no plans for a stateside holiday.

ADDED - To take five minutes to talk to a citizen shouldn't be too much to ask of our public servants..

The conversation could go like this; Here is our marriage certificate, as you can see we have been legally married and living together in Thailand for five years. Here is her passport, yes she has taken my last name. Here are her five chanotes and here is her bankbook. The reason for a visa is if/when an emergency occurs we want to be able to go straight to the airport.

Why do I need to take a batch of sh!t for a simple matter?

Edited April 16, 2008 by Gary A

[PadThaiGuy]

Gary,

Immigration in the States is screwed up.

In San Jose, Ca., the next appointment is 39 months away!

I had similar difficulties and the only satisfaction I got was thru the Congesssmans office.

I had written Immigration several letters over a period of a couple years.

When my Congressman finally got me inside Immigration, the agent showed me my letters. ALL UNOPENED!

The letters get scanned to see if there is a check inside. They open those and just file the letters.

He says nobody reads them.

[EricZ]

A friend recently tried for a tourist visa for 15 days. The application was presented in a professional way, docoumented, tabulated with tabel of contents, etc etc. The interview took 2 minutes. They asked her why she is a university student at age 28. That was it. Application denied. Did not even glance at the documents or supporting information.

amerika-what a country!

[Tod Daniels]

It is hard to comment on the OP's story without knowing all the facts.

I have occasion to go to the US Embassy many times a month to pick up forms, get notary stamps etc. In the time I have spent there I have heard more sob stories than I can remember. Of course everyone thinks their situation is 'special' or that they should be treated differently than the other 2 or 3 hundred people there on any given day. Unfortunately that is simply not the case.

The ACS Division is one of the most over worked areas in the embassy given the diverse things they do and provide to Americans. It is NOT unusual to see them work another hour after the window closes for lunch to finish the backlog of work they have.

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple. Then again, there are as many conservatively dressed, well presented couples.

I sympathize with the plight people go thru to get visa's to the Unite States, BUT... The burden is 100% totally and completely on the person applying for the visa to show they have sufficient ‘thais’ (sp) to this country to return as well as sufficient funds to live in the US while they are there. The Embassy staff is there to try and see if the information on the forms matches the questions they ask about the information. It’s sometimes hit and miss, but more often than not can weed out less than forthcoming applicants.

The forms initially look overwhelming but there are a plethora of web resources to tell you what you need, how it is to be filled out, etc. While chatting to one immigration official I know at one counter, it looked like the applications she had on her desk had been filled out with a broken crayon, written on the back of the person ahead of them while standing in line, with too many corrections. That is enough to ring warning bells with the counter staff. Turning in correctly and neatly filled out forms, with the necessary supporting documentation, in the correct order, cannot be stressed enough.

Paperwork is what makes a bureaucracy run, the more the better no matter what country. You need only look at the mountain of paperwork that thai immigrations sometimes requires to see that fact.

Many posters have recounted their tale of applying for and receiving the visa they requested for their significant others. It is NOT something that is denied routinely, but it is vetted. Just as with anything; there is a right and wrong way to go about it.

More thai friends of mine than I care to count have the 10 year tourist visa to the US and have visited there many times. It can be done.

Rules are tools; know them, follow them, even exploit them within the letter of the law and you can often get what you want.

Good Luck

[Ulysses G.]

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple.

Are you saying that poor, less educated people should not be allowed to get married?

"Land of the free", what horse-sh*t!

[Gary A]

It is hard to comment on the OP's story without knowing all the facts.

I have occasion to go to the US Embassy many times a month to pick up forms, get notary stamps etc. In the time I have spent there I have heard more sob stories than I can remember. Of course everyone thinks their situation is 'special' or that they should be treated differently than the other 2 or 3 hundred people there on any given day. Unfortunately that is simply not the case.

The ACS Division is one of the most over worked areas in the embassy given the diverse things they do and provide to Americans. It is NOT unusual to see them work another hour after the window closes for lunch to finish the backlog of work they have.

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple. Then again, there are as many conservatively dressed, well presented couples.

I sympathize with the plight people go thru to get visa's to the Unite States, BUT... The burden is 100% totally and completely on the person applying for the visa to show they have sufficient ‘thais’ (sp) to this country to return as well as sufficient funds to live in the US while they are there. The Embassy staff is there to try and see if the information on the forms matches the questions they ask about the information. It’s sometimes hit and miss, but more often than not can weed out less than forthcoming applicants.

The forms initially look overwhelming but there are a plethora of web resources to tell you what you need, how it is to be filled out, etc. While chatting to one immigration official I know at one counter, it looked like the applications she had on her desk had been filled out with a broken crayon, written on the back of the person ahead of them while standing in line, with too many corrections. That is enough to ring warning bells with the counter staff. Turning in correctly and neatly filled out forms, with the necessary supporting documentation, in the correct order, cannot be stressed enough.

Paperwork is what makes a bureaucracy run, the more the better no matter what country. You need only look at the mountain of paperwork that thai immigrations sometimes requires to see that fact.

Many posters have recounted their tale of applying for and receiving the visa they requested for their significant others. It is NOT something that is denied routinely, but it is vetted. Just as with anything; there is a right and wrong way to go about it.

More thai friends of mine than I care to count have the 10 year tourist visa to the US and have visited there many times. It can be done.

Rules are tools; know them, follow them, even exploit them within the letter of the law and you can often get what you want.

Good Luck

Sob stories? Involving what? Are you talking about drunken gutter bums who have lost their passport for the third time and have no money for another? Perhaps you are referring to guys who have spent their last baht and are looking for a free ride back home.

They have not given me the courtesy or opportunity to present a sob story. No one has bothered to talk to me. I paid my $20 for the phone call and still NOT talked to anyone who had any answers.

It's simply all bullsh!t paperwork that absolves them of having to use any common sense. Overworked? Have you seen their holiday schedule? We used to make fun of banker's hours but banks are quite stingy as compared to the US embassy.

[dumspero]

In my view, people need to understand it's an overwhelmingly large system, with so many coming into the US each year, and with so much fraud and attempted fraud.

It seems somewhat analogous to the US criminal justice system--it sucks with vast piles of guilty persons never convicted and too many innocent people convicted--but really, what system would work better?

With the visa system, should they trust everyone? Should they just deny everyone? Or should they try to work out something in between that will work most of the time but that will still necessarily be arbitrary and wrong far too often?

I went through the process in 2005 with my Thai girlfriend. We both live outside the US but not in Thailand. We asked for a one-year single entry tourist visa to visit my elderly parent and they gave us a ten year multiple entry visa. I was there in shorts and zories, and her in shorts and a tight top (after all, we were there in Thailand as tourists). It worked out for us. It has for others we know, and not for yet others. It could easily have not worked out for us.

In sum, the immigration system is big, messy and arbitrary and I don't see any suggestions that would eliminate that, although of course they should always be working to improve it on the margins, which is probably all that is possible. I also feel for my fellow vets when it doesn't work out for them, but don't believe we should get a free pass. (And the retiree with 25 years wouldn't need one, if his partner has no problems. He would make plenty with about 62.5% of his base pay plus COLA's plus all the other benefits).