Work Permit Renewal

[Jazzyuk]

Can someone offer me some advice regarding the renewal of my work permit.

I have a business and currently have a Cat B visa and work permit. I have to pay considerable taxes and insurance to the Thai government, wether or not I earn the money!

Would I be better off with a marriage visa and work permit? Do you still have to pay taxes and insurance on what the Thia goverment think we should be earning or do you pay on actual earnings?

Many Thanks

[yuyi]

You do not pay any "taxes and insurance to the Thai government" for your visa. Not even for your work permit. But most probably for your company (assuming you mean "having a company", probably a Co ltd, when you say "having a business"), and for the employees of your company, including you. So changing the visa to a non-O will change nothing here.

The question you want to ask is if you can run your business, and get your work permit, without having a such an expensive company, isn't it?

In order to answer such a question I think more info about what kind of business you do is needed.

[Indo-Siam]

I think I can answer the question's intent:

If you extend a non-immigrant entry permit on the basis of "qualifying employment," then three criteria must be met that are not required of perrsons who are extending a non-immigrant visa on the basis of "supporting a Thai spouse."

Specifically: Extending a non-immigrant visa on the basis of qualifying employment requires that sponsored employee be paid a minimum monthly wage that is based on nationality, and also that employing company have:

4 Thai employees per employed foreigner

2,000,000 baht paid-in capital per foreign employee, for companies that have less than their registered capital in cash on hand.

If you are supporting a Thai spouse, all you need is to be earning 40,000 baht per month.

For a person who runs his own company, if he gets his entry permit extended on the basis of supporting a Thai spouse, he dose not need to maintain more Thai employees on payroll than are actually required - and he does not ned to pay taxes on income above 40,000 baht per month.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[yuyi]

Sorry, Steve, it's again me with some questions:

first of all, I assume you talk about the one year visa given by immigration in Thailand and not the one year multiple entry visa given by an embassy?

You write that, in order to get the non-B visa extended you need:

• 4 Thai employees per employed foreigner
  
• 2,000,000 baht paid-in capital per foreign employee
  
• earnings >= 40,000 baht per month
  

and to get the non-O visa extended you need:

• 0 Thai employees per employed foreigner
  
• 0 baht paid-in capital per foreign employee
  
• earnings >= 40,000 baht per month
  

And you do not mention it, but with that you also get the work permit, without further requirements?

Did I get that correctly?

I ask this because I got told by a consulting, law and accounting company that in order to get a work permit a company needs to be registered, and for that the non-O visa is useless and a non-B visa needs to get obtained, plus all the 3 requirements you list for this non-B visa.

I learned already in this forum that there are work permits for non-O visas. And now I learn that a non-O visa brings with it that the 2,000,000 baht paid-in capital per foreign employee and the 4 Thai employees per employed foreigner are not needed!?!?

So a non-O visa would allow you to register a Co.ltd with a minimum of paid-in capital (may be 100000 baht?), and only one employee, which is you, the foreigner, earning 40000 B/month ?

The same consulting, law and accounting company told me also, that with a non-B from an embassy (and not the one year from immigration) you do not need the 4 Thai employees per employed foreigner. However they might ask for 2 Thai employees per employed foreigner next time you extend the work permit.

If that is correct, that is already better than 4, but if 0 are actually needed, then - if I understood you correctly - the non-O would give you a company and a work permit without any (more or less on paper only anyway) Thai employees ?

[Indo-Siam]

Yuyi -

You are essentially correct. I do not talk "visas" - I talk entry permits. Everyone on this board uses these two terms interchangeably, and they are in fact not at all interchangeable. Once you are inside Thailand, your visa (or even whether you have a visa) is meaningless - it is your entry permit that counts.

Visa rules vary by diplomatic post that issues them. In general, if you have a work permit, it is extremrely easy to renew a visa - and it is even possible to get a one-year, multiple-entry visa from some consulates. IF YOU HAVE A WORK PERMIT.

You are correct in stating:

1. If you are married to a Thai spouse and have an entry permit issued on the basis of a non-immigrant Class O visa, you are eligible for a work permit (that is the basis of my own personal work permit).

2. Further, if you are in that status, you may form a Thai Private Co. Ltd. with just 1,000,000 baht regisitered capital, and immediately obtain a work permit to work as Managing Director of that company. That work permit will be valid for as long as your entry permit is valid.

3. If you are declaring (and paying taxes) on at least 40,000 baht in monthly income, you are eligible to extend your entry permit on the basis of "supporting a Thai spouse" - and Immigration does not ask about paid-in capital, or Thai employee head count at your employing company. To apply for this type of extension, your Thai spouse MUST accompany you to Immigratuon to submit the application, and you must be living together in a supportive relationship - a field inspector will pay a visit to your residence to "sniff out" phony marriages.

Now - Immigration can get a bit dicey about extending an entry permit for someone with no money in the bank, and a fresh history of just one or two 40,000 baht paychecks behind him. So - where possible - I suggest that applicants start by getting an initial Class O entry permit extension on the basis of bringing in 400,000 baht - and then renew annually on the basis of salary. Alternately, accumulate one or two quarters of consecutive 40,000 baht monthly paychecks (by making visa runs every 90 days, and then revalidating work permit)) before applying for the extended entry permit.

The law office that provided you with advice should be taken out behind the building and shot. Or at lesat exposed as incompetent.

Cheers!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

All good advice Steve.

The law office that provided you with advice should be taken out behind the building and shot. Or at lesat exposed as incompetent.

Amen brother! It’s unbelievable the garbage that many consultants and lawyers pass off as advice. It’s the Wild Wild West when its coming to get counsel in Thailand.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[yuyi]

Thanks Steve!

The law office that provided you with advice should be taken out behind the building and shot. Or at lesat exposed as incompetent.

yeah, I got the feeling already, that I got some not so competent advice . I prefer for the moment not to expose the consultant yet here, as he and his company are still working for me. Also in that company a Thai employee did do some things for me, very good and to my complete satisfaction, and some things are still in process, which I do not want to put at risk. Anyone want s to know now, please PM me

I'm still not sure, if the bad advice is just based on incompetence, or on the intent to max out the consultant's profits. Anyway, the result is unnecessary fees, starting with the difference in government fees for a registered capital of 1 or of 2 millions baht

After the ongoing affair is finished, I will have a good discussion with him, and probably also his boss.

Now there is still one point where he can get me: the work permit.

and to get the non-O visa extended you need:

    * 0 Thai employees per employed foreigner

    * 0 baht paid-in capital per foreign employee

    * earnings >= 40,000 baht per month

And you do not mention it, but with that you also get the work permit, without further requirements?

Did I get that correctly, even the work permit and the extensions of the work permit (in case of an entry permit being based on supporting a Thai spouse) do not require any Thai employees?

The same consulting, law and accounting company told me also, that with a non-B from an embassy (and not the one year from immigration) you do not need the 4 Thai employees per employed foreigner. However they might ask for 2 Thai employees per employed foreigner next time you extend the work permit.

but in that case I would have to do also the 90 day visa runs (which I don't mind).

I assume that this is the same as if I do exactly as you explain, and "extend your entry permit on the basis of supporting a Thai spouse" at immigration. How is it then with the work permit extensions, do they ask for Thai employees or not, and if yes, 2 or 4?

[phormio]

Yuyi -

You are essentially correct. I do not talk "visas" - I talk entry permits. 

...

You are correct in stating:

1.  If you are married to a Thai spouse and have an entry permit issued on the basis of a non-immigrant Class O visa, you are eligible for a work permit (that is the basis of my own personal work permit).

2.  Further, if you are in that status, you may form a Thai Private Co. Ltd. with just 1,000,000 baht regisitered capital, and immediately obtain a work permit to work as Managing Director of that company. That work permit will be valid for as long as your entry permit is valid .

3.  If you are declaring (and paying taxes) on at least 40,000 baht in monthly income, you are eligible to extend your entry permit on the basis of "supporting a Thai spouse " - and Immigration does not ask about paid-in capital, or Thai employee head count at your employing company.  To apply for this type of extension, your Thai spouse MUST accompany you to Immigratuon to submit the application, and you must be living together in a supportive relationship - a field inspector will pay a visit to your residence to "sniff out" phony marriages.

Yuyi's asking some great questions.

I'll be ga*(&dammed, don't things get rich?

Sorry to butt in here, but i couldn't resist :

items 2 & 3 above, i added bolding -

...

you are eligible to extend your entry permit on the basis of "supporting a Thai spouse"...

when you do this, does the work permit also need to be extended by going to the Department of Labor, or is it automatically tied to the O visa/Entry permit extension?

Also, the THAI LC has to be majority Thai owned etc, and is NOT BOI sponsored?

[Indo-Siam]

When I got my work permit, back in 2002, there was a page in it where they stamped in a requirement for "x" number of Thai employees to justify the work permit - mine says "4". But - this requirement disappeared sometime in early 2003 - well over a year ago. Since then, nothing in the WP application process even asks or considers anything about employee headcount.

The only people who look at employee head count are Immigration officials, and then only if processing an extension based on employment - because in that case, your employer must QUALIFY to sponsor such extended entry permits.

If you are extending on basis of supporting a Thai spouse, all you have to do is document sufficient legal income - they do not evaluate the employer's ability to sponsor entry permit extensions.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[yuyi]

Now I think I got it

Once again, thanks Steve!

[yuyi]

phormio

when you do this, does the work permit also need to be extended by going to the Department of Labor, or is it automatically tied to the O visa/Entry permit extension?

That would be too easy, i cannot imagine that. I think the Department of Labor would not give that out of their hands.

[phormio]

Thanks yuyi and Steve for letting me beat that hog to death

(without roasting my-arse)

[astral]

Would I be better off with a marriage visa and work permit? Do you still have to pay taxes and insurance on what the Thia goverment think we should be earning or do you pay on actual earnings?

I suggest you go for the marriage visa first, then let the work permit follow.

That way you can still stay on if your job dies on you.

If you get the B visa and you loose your work permit, the visa will be cancelled,

like Utopia who has been writing to the newpapers this week.

Either way you pay taxes, but your security here is better with the marriage visa.

[opalhort]

Would I be better off with a marriage visa and work permit? Do you still have to pay taxes and insurance on what the Thia goverment think we should be earning or do you pay on actual earnings? 

I suggest you go for the marriage visa first, then let the work permit follow.

That way you can still stay on if your job dies on you.

If you get the B visa and you loose your work permit, the visa will be cancelled,

like Utopia who has been writing to the newpapers this week.

Either way you pay taxes, but your security here is better with the marriage visa.

Astral is correct.

but with a Non-Imm-O spouse visa your taxes are lower since you have to show an income of only 40K/month. Even less is OK if you have the balance to 400K in a bank. This of course applies only when you apply for visa renewal. Pay taxes based on your true salary, but I think the Labour department still want to see a minimum anual tax payment of 18K for WP renewal.

opalhort

[phormio]

Would I be better off with a marriage visa and work permit? Do you still have to pay taxes and insurance on what the Thia goverment think we should be earning or do you pay on actual earnings? 

I suggest you go for the marriage visa first, then let the work permit follow.

That way you can still stay on if your job dies on you.

If you get the B visa and you loose your work permit, the visa will be cancelled,

like Utopia who has been writing to the newpapers this week.

Either way you pay taxes, but your security here is better with the marriage visa.

Astral is correct.

but with a Non-Imm-O spouse visa your taxes are lower since you have to show an income of only 40K/month. Even less is OK if you have the balance to 400K in a bank. This of course applies only when you apply for visa renewal. Pay taxes based on your true salary, but I think the Labour department still want to see a minimum anual tax payment of 18K for WP renewal.

opalhort

Howd'ya know theyz lookin for 18K/year 1500/month(appx 40 bucks) ?

[Sunny Valentine]

Just wonderin' if this procedure does also work with the one year Visa extension based on 3 Mill Bt Condo investment?

Sunny

[opalhort]

Astral is correct.

but with a Non-Imm-O spouse visa your taxes are lower since you have to show an income of only 40K/month. Even less is OK if you have the balance to 400K in a bank. This of course applies only when you apply for visa renewal. Pay taxes based on your true salary, but I think the Labour department still want to see a minimum anual tax payment of 18K for WP renewal.

opalhort

Howd'ya know theyz lookin for 18K/year 1500/month(appx 40 bucks) ?

I was talking about the amount of tax to be paid per year is 18K.

This is for an income of approx. 23K Baht/month if you don't file any deductions.

opalhort

[croftrobin]

I live in Buriram province and am married and currently have an O visa - extended for a year based on bank deposit.

I want to set up my own business, it will have no Thai employees or clients - all clients will be in Europe. Payment will be received by my bank in Europe and I will then "pay my Thai salary" into a Thai bank on a monthly basis.

I am under 50

Where can I obtain the work permit from?

Does it have to be done in Bangkok?

Edited October 12, 2004 by croftrobin