Benzene May Hit 45 Baht Per Liter & Diesel Could Hit 38 Baht Per Liter In The Next Few Days

[rethaired]

I am no expert, but I doubt that even a million hybrid cars being sold in the world every year are going to offset a whole lot of the carbon emissions in the world, although any decrease is good. Then, like nuclear fuel, what do we do with the used hybrid batteries? What does it cost for new batteries, and how often? There is a mathematical certainty about fuel efficiency, called the point of diminishing returns. An SUV that gets 8 km per liter is a gas guzzler, and trading down for a Diahatsu Mira Mint would save the planet. But if your sedan already gets 14 km/liter, a hybrid will not save much more, because you are not using that much fuel now. Besides, how much fuel does a hybrid burn anyway, and how much fossil fuel is burned to make the batteries or the recharge?

High fuel prices will cut down automobile fuel consumption, but we do not want our fresh food delivered by oxcart. Those diesel 18-wheeled rigs burn lots of fuel.

True, about the hybrids, but we are very far from crushing all of those SUVs. And, at the price of everything, people are going to cut consumption by not travelling as much. Already, Air Canada has cut 2,000 employees. A GM plan building SUVs was shut down recently. Trains can transport more and more goods. Roads will get to be more efficient. THere are kits that trucks can use to lower consumptions. New airplanes are going to be more efficient too. I am sure more of this (a whole lot more) will happen and I also believe that the US recession will put a multiplier effect into the growth of China. I think we are going to go into undulating plateaus and dips from this high for a long time. Add the climate change effects. Anyway, there are many theories and many of them are being contested, Peak Oil included.

I think it would be useless for me to discuss all of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil#Timing_of_peak_oil

I believe though that it is overhyped and that the price is artificially held high by speculators.

I am no expert also, but common sense tells me that these recent rises are artificial.

Countering Peal Oil is:

Some commentators, such as economist Michael Lynch, say that the Hubbert Peak theory is flawed and that there is no imminent peak in oil production; a view sometimes referred to as "cornucopian" by believers in Hubbert Peak Theory. Lynch argued in 2004 that production is determined by demand as well as geology, and that fluctuations in oil supply are due to political and economic effects as well as the physical processes of exploration, discovery and production.^[105] This idea is echoed by Jad Mouawad, who explains that as oil prices rise, new extraction technologies become viable, thus expanding the total recoverable oil reserves. This, according to Mouwad, is one explanation of the changes in peak production estimates.^[104]

Abdullah S. Jum'ah, President, Director and CEO of Aramco, states that the world has adequate reserves of conventional and nonconventional oil sources for more than a century,^[106][107] though Sadad Al-Husseini, a former Vice President of Aramco who formerly maintained that production would peak in 10-15 years, stated in October 2007 that oil production peaked in 2006.^[7]

Why is this not getting equal press time? Could it be that disaster sells?

Edited June 21, 2008 by rethaired

[tropo]

The opening post is dated 23 April and parts of it have not yet happened by 19 June. If anything, 91 benzene seems to have finally hit a plateau at 42, after a breathtaking rise. This has already been a weird week for my driving, about 260 km in three days. But at these prices, I will find shortcuts and ways to drive less.

Not quite. Last night I paid 43.59 for 95. A 0.7 baht increase in the last week.

[thaiclan]

Why dont they completely shut down oil futures, and make trading oil both deliverable and much larger contract size than at present. Its so easy for traders (I am one) to make quick profits out of these huge rises (and falls) in oil, and like many other posters agree...to what global cost?

[PeaceBlondie]

Color me dumb, but why does the most speculative part of the crude oil market make all the headlines, except to sensationalize and exaggerate? Is that recent report of the oil giants paying about $120 per barrel, for real oil being delivered in the USA, an aberration? Does the refined gasoline we are buying in Thailand really cost the refineries over $120? What are long term contracts selling for, in huge quantities of delivered crude, and how long are the contracts lasting?

[madi]

A lot of good posts here

Talking about economics tends to keep the raves down.

OIL

It is such a huge part of our modern lives. If it were only transportation, the much higher prices would not be so devastating but it is so much more. We grow our food using--OIL. We deliver goods to market using transportation--more OIL.

I think we need to separate the possible fixes for our energy problem In the world into two parts--long terms and short term. Long term, we could easily move our cars off of Oil. We can also easily increase the miles per gallon from 25MPG to 50 MPG or even more. There is no reason to be heating our homes in any other way but using solar. It works even in the North of Canada. Same thing is true with heating our water. Of course, cheaper and better public transportation would also help a lot. Switching over to Hydrogen for cars would also help--i think--but I am not sure.

All of the above are long term fixes that it we went all out on would take a decade to get 90% of the population fixed in our western world. The other modern economies are also in this group. But how about India and China? How about Indonesia and the rest of the world?

Short term we have huge economic problems hitting the poor in the developing nations. The meltdowns have just begun and it is caused in large part by the increase in oil prices.

I hate to sound panic driven but I really do think it is up to America --and I am American, to cut its use by 25% starting almost immediately. You see, America uses about 21 million barrels per day which is about 25% of the world's oil production. If America were to drop its use quickly down to 15 million, the oil prices would quickly collapse down to 50 dollars a barrel or so. Short term, this would avoid a world disaster.

But no sooner than that, nations would need to force changes through legislation to push for the changes I already talked about.

Many who are environmentalists are against my fixing the wreck short term for fear THAT THE LONG TERM FIXES WOULD JUST DIE.

They might be right.

Oh well

[sriracha john]

Shell Raises Diesel-Benzene Prices by 0.30-0.60 Baht/Liter

Less than 24 hours since it last spoke of a likely cut in pump prices, Shell Thailand has taken the lead in raising both diesel and retail prices across the board.

Shell Thailand raised diesel prices by 60 satang a liter this morning. This has led local diesel to reach its historic high of 42.44 baht a liter, accordingly.

It also announced a rise in benzene prices by 30 satang per liter, which drives benzene 95 to 42.69 baht a liter, while benzene 91 is now 41.29 baht a liter.

Gasohol 95 today costs 37.69 baht and gasohol 91 is 36.89 baht a liter at all Shell gas stations in Bangkok and nearby provinces.

Esso and Susco also upped their diesel prices by 60 satang per liter this morning, while PTT and Bangchak still keep their pump prices unchanged.

- Thailand Outlook (today)

[LaoPo]

Meanwhile...in the USA,

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/2...URBS_index.html click and look at the photos...

Fuel Prices Shift Math for Life in Far Suburbs

Suburban Home Prices Dropping

ELIZABETH, Colo. — Suddenly, the economics of American suburban life are under assault as skyrocketing energy prices inflate the costs of reaching, heating and cooling homes on the distant edges of metropolitan areas.

Just off Singing Hills Road, in one of hundreds of two-story homes dotting a former cattle ranch beyond the southern fringes of Denver, Phil Boyle and his family openly wonder if they will have to move close to town to get some relief.

They still revel in the space and quiet that has drawn a steady exodus from American cities toward places like this for more than half a century. Their living room ceiling soars two stories high. A swing-set sways in the breeze in their backyard. Their wrap-around porch looks out over the flat scrub of the high plains to the snow-capped peaks of the Rocky Mountains.

But life on the edges of suburbia is beginning to feel untenable. Mr. Boyle and his wife must drive nearly an hour to their jobs in the high-tech corridor of southern Denver. With gasoline at more than $4 a gallon, Mr. Boyle recently paid $121 to fill his pickup truck with diesel fuel. In March, the last time he filled his propane tank to heat his spacious house, he paid $566, more than twice the price of 5 years ago.

Though Mr. Boyle finds city life unappealing, it is now up for reconsideration.

“Living closer in, in a smaller space, where you don’t have that commute,” he said. “It’s definitely something we talk about. Before it was ‘we spend too much time driving.’ Now, it’s ‘we spend too much time and money driving.’ ”

Across the nation, the realization is taking hold that rising energy prices are less a momentary blip than a change with lasting consequences. The shift to costlier fuel is threatening to slow the decades-old migration away from cities, while exacerbating the housing downturn by diminishing the appeal of larger homes set far from urban jobs.

In Atlanta, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Minneapolis, homes beyond the urban core have been falling in value faster than those within, according to an analysis by Moody’s Economy.com.

In Denver, housing prices in the urban core rose steadily from 2003 until late last year compared with previous years, before dipping nearly 5 percent in the last three months of last year, according to Economy.com. But house prices in the suburbs began falling earlier, in the middle of 2006, and then accelerated, dropping by 7 percent during the last three months of the year from a year earlier.

Many factors have propelled the unraveling of American real estate, from the mortgage crisis to a staggering excess of home construction, making it hard to pinpoint the impact of any single force. But economists and real estate agents are growing convinced that the rising cost of energy is now a primary factor pushing home prices down in the suburbs, particularly in the outer rings.

More than three-fourths of prospective home buyers are now more inclined to live in an urban area because of fuel prices, according to a recent survey of 903 real estate agents with Coldwell Banker, the national brokerage firm.

Some now proclaim the unfolding demise of suburbia.

“Many low-density suburbs and McMansion subdivisions, including some that are lovely and affluent today, may become what inner cities became in the 1960s and ’70s — slums characterized by poverty, crime and decay,” declared Christopher B. Leinberger, an urban land use expert, in a recent essay in The Atlantic Monthly.

Most experts do not share such apocalyptic visions, seeing instead a gradual reordering.

“It’s like an ebbing of this suburban tide,” said Joe Cortright, an economist at the consulting group Impresa Inc. in Portland, Ore. “There’s going to be this kind of reversal of desirability. Typically, Americans have felt the periphery was most desirable, and now there’s going to be a reversion to the center.”

In a recent study, Mr. Cortright found that house prices in the urban centers of Chicago, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Portland and Tampa have fared significantly better than those in the suburbs. So-called exurbs — communities sprouting on the distant edges of metropolitan areas — have suffered worst of all, Mr. Cortright found.

Basic household arithmetic appears to be furthering the trend: In 2003, the average suburban household spent $1,422 a year on gasoline, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. By April of this year — when gas prices were about $3.60 a gallon— the same household was spending $3,196 a year, more than doubling consumption in dollar terms in less than five years.

In March, Americans drove 11 billion fewer miles on public roads than in the same month the previous year, a 4.3 percent decrease — the sharpest one-month drop since the Federal Highway Administration began keeping records in 1942.

Long before the recent spike in the price of energy, environmentalists decried suburban sprawl a waste of land, energy and tax dollars. Governments from Virginia to California have in recent decades lavished resources on building roads and schools for new subdivisions in the outer rings of development while skimping on maintaining facilities closer in. Many governments now focus on reviving their downtowns.

In Denver — a classic Western city, with snarling freeway traffic across a vast acreage of strip malls, ranch houses and office parks — the city has had an urban renaissance over the last decade.

A $6.1 billion commuter rail system has been in the works over the last four years, drawing people downtown without cars, while stimulating swift sales of densely clustered condos near stations.

Coors Field, the intimate, brick-fronted baseball stadium for the Colorado Rockies, has transformed the surrounding area from a desolate skid row into fashionable Lower Downtown, a neighborhood of restaurants and microbreweries in restored warehouses. Along the Platte River, new condos set on a park strip offer an arresting tableau of glass, steel, and futuristic geometry, attracting throngs of buyers at rising prices.

“This is a city where it’s fun to be in the center,” said Tim Burleigh, 56, who sold his house in the suburbs and now walks to Rockies games from his downtown condo.

To Denver’s mayor, John W. Hickenlooper, $4 gasoline offers a useful incentive for such plans.

“It can be an accelerator,” he said during an interview inside the imposing column-fronted City Hall. “It’s not going to be the dagger in the heart of suburban sprawl, but there’s a certain inclination, a certain momentum back toward downtown.”

Dollars spent at the gas station leave fewer for mortgage payments. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com, calculated that the jump in gas prices from $2 a gallon to $4 has taken $50 a month from the typical suburban commuter driving 25 miles a day.

“The fuel price change should be capitalized into the cost of houses,” Mr. Zandi said. “Prices in the outer suburbs will get clobbered.”

Elizabeth is the archetype of a once-rural community sucked into the orbit of the expanding metropolis, its ranch lands given over to porches, picket fences and two-car garages.

Megan Werner, 39, a mother of three, moved here five years ago from a dense suburb closer to Denver. She and her husband bought a home set on a 1.5-acre lot in the Deer Creek Farm subdivision. The space justified her husband’s 40-minute commute.

“We wanted more than a postage stamp,” she said, as her 5-year-old daughter walked barefoot across the driveway.

It used to cost her about $30 to fill her Honda minivan with gas. Now, it is more like $50, and she coordinates her trips — shopping in town, combined with dance lessons for her children. But she has no thoughts of leaving.

“I can open up my door and my kids can play,” Ms. Werner said.

For others, though, new math is altering the choice of where to live. Houses are sitting on the market longer than in years past. “The pool of buyers is diminishing,” said Jace Glick, an agent with Re/Max Alliance in Parker, Colo., next to Elizabeth.

Juanita Johnson and her husband, both retired Denver schoolteachers, moved here last August, after three decades in the city and a few years in the mountains. They bought a four-bedroom house for $415,000.

Last winter, they spent $3,000 on propane for heat, she said. Suddenly, this seemed like a place to flee. “We’d sell if we could, but we’d lose our shirt,” Ms. Johnson said. Recently she counted 15 sale signs. One home nearby is listed below $400,000.

“I was so glad to get out of the city, the pollution the traffic, the crime,” she said. Now, the suburbs seem mean. “I wouldn’t do this again.”

---The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/business...p;ex=1214625600

LaoPo

[dotcom]

Shell doesn't set the prices. The Thai government does.

[Bill97]

A lot of good posts here

Talking about economics tends to keep the raves down.

OIL

It is such a huge part of our modern lives. If it were only transportation, the much higher prices would not be so devastating but it is so much more. We grow our food using--OIL. We deliver goods to market using transportation--more OIL.

I think we need to separate the possible fixes for our energy problem In the world into two parts--long terms and short term. Long term, we could easily move our cars off of Oil. We can also easily increase the miles per gallon from 25MPG to 50 MPG or even more. There is no reason to be heating our homes in any other way but using solar. It works even in the North of Canada. Same thing is true with heating our water. Of course, cheaper and better public transportation would also help a lot. Switching over to Hydrogen for cars would also help--i think--but I am not sure.

All of the above are long term fixes that it we went all out on would take a decade to get 90% of the population fixed in our western world. The other modern economies are also in this group. But how about India and China? How about Indonesia and the rest of the world?

Short term we have huge economic problems hitting the poor in the developing nations. The meltdowns have just begun and it is caused in large part by the increase in oil prices.

I hate to sound panic driven but I really do think it is up to America --and I am American, to cut its use by 25% starting almost immediately. You see, America uses about 21 million barrels per day which is about 25% of the world's oil production. If America were to drop its use quickly down to 15 million, the oil prices would quickly collapse down to 50 dollars a barrel or so. Short term, this would avoid a world disaster.

But no sooner than that, nations would need to force changes through legislation to push for the changes I already talked about.

Many who are environmentalists are against my fixing the wreck short term for fear THAT THE LONG TERM FIXES WOULD JUST DIE.

They might be right.

Oh well

America not only uses a lot of the world's oil but it sells it at half to one third the price Europeans pay for their gas/diesel. If they sold it at the price many others have to pay, consumption would quickly drop a lot because it is already dropping at current prices(people are driving less). They have been and are a large part of the problem.

[cclub75]

By the way... for the NGV lovers... +41 % price increase is confirmed for the end of the year...

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1007892

And, in 2010... another hike.

You'll notice the very funny statement of the PTT guy :

Regarding the long-term strategy, Punnachai said the company would control the distribution price of NGV so it does not exceed 50 per cent of the price of diesel.

Another clown... He doesn't say that... by that time diesel will be more expensive than wine.

Anyway, more seriously : you drive NGV, happy because it's cheap. Well, fair enough : but it will go up.

[sriracha john]

Oil climbs to record above $141 in Asia

SINGAPORE - Oil prices climbed to a record above $141 a barrel in Asian trading Friday as the dollar's protracted slump prompted investors to flock to oil as a hedge against inflation.

Prices were also lifted Thursday after OPEC's president said crude prices could rise well above $150 a barrel this year and Libya said it may cut oil production.

Light, sweet crude for August delivery rose as high as $141.71 a barrel.

- Associated Press

[LaoPo]

Oil price hits record near $142

BRENT CRUDE OIL IN DOLLARS PER BARREL MAY TO JUNE 2008

Why the oil price keeps rising - 1970 - 2008 *

* http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7431805.stm

The price of crude oil has surged to a record, almost breaking through $142 a barrel, amid concerns about the ability of producer nations to meet demand.

In London, Brent crude jumped to $141.98 a barrel, while New York light crude climbed as high as $141.71.

Producers' group Opec has been under pressure to boost production, though recent reports have shown its members are split over whether to lift output.

Libya has threatened to cut production because the market is well supplied.

Legal action

Libya's most senior oil official, Shokri Ghanem, said on Thursday he was looking into the possibility of cutting oil production in response to US threats against oil producers.

The US House of Representatives has passed a bill that would allow the Justice Department to sue members of Opec for limiting supplies of oil and setting prices.

But the bill has not yet been voted on by the Senate and the White House has already said it would veto the bill.

There was also some scepticism among analysts about whether there will actually be a cut in Libya, because prices are so high.

"I doubt that any real effort in cutting output would be forthcoming, considering that pricing continues to hit new records," said Victor Shum, an energy analyst at Purvin & Gertz in Singapore.

"There's no economic reason to cut output at this time, so it's just talk."

'Radically new level'

The chief executive of Gazprom, Alexei Miller, has been talking down the influence of Opec.

Saying that Opec had no real impact on prices, he told the Financial Times: "Not a single decision has been passed of late that would really influence the global oil market."

He also said that the world was undergoing "a great surge in oil and gas prices, which will end with prices at a radically new level".

Mr Miller predicted that Gazprom would become the most influential company in the energy business.

Gazprom is currently holding its annual shareholders' meeting, which is expected to approve the replacement of its former chairman, Dmitry Medvedev, who is now Russian president, with former prime minister Viktor Zubkov.

---BBC/Business

The price of oil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/busine...il_/default.stm

LaoPo

Edited June 27, 2008 by LaoPo

[sriracha john]

Esso leads oil dealers in increasing benzene and diesel oil prices by 80 satang/litre effective today.

- TNA / 29-06-08

[otherstuff1957]

The future WILL bring more hybrid and other types of innovative vehicles to the market. However, for the foreseeable future these vehicles will be too expensive or not available for many people. So, what do the rest of us do? Well, there is a simple way to cut your fuel consumption by 20% to 40%! Take a look at this chart:

Simply slowing down from 120kph to 100 or even 90kph will result in a significant reduction in fuel consumption. I know it's difficult driving more slowly when everyone else is going 120, but it is possible and the rewards are significant.

[jitagon]

Meanwhile...in the USA,

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/2...URBS_index.html click and look at the photos...

Fuel Prices Shift Math for Life in Far Suburbs

Suburban Home Prices Dropping

ELIZABETH, Colo. — Suddenly, the economics of American suburban life are under assault as skyrocketing energy prices inflate the costs of reaching, heating and cooling homes on the distant edges of metropolitan areas.

Just off Singing Hills Road, in one of hundreds of two-story homes dotting a former cattle ranch beyond the southern fringes of Denver, Phil Boyle and his family openly wonder if they will have to move close to town to get some relief.

They still revel in the space and quiet that has drawn a steady exodus from American cities toward places like this for more than half a century. Their living room ceiling soars two stories high. A swing-set sways in the breeze in their backyard. Their wrap-around porch looks out over the flat scrub of the high plains to the snow-capped peaks of the Rocky Mountains.

But life on the edges of suburbia is beginning to feel untenable. Mr. Boyle and his wife must drive nearly an hour to their jobs in the high-tech corridor of southern Denver. With gasoline at more than $4 a gallon, Mr. Boyle recently paid $121 to fill his pickup truck with diesel fuel. In March, the last time he filled his propane tank to heat his spacious house, he paid $566, more than twice the price of 5 years ago.

Though Mr. Boyle finds city life unappealing, it is now up for reconsideration.

“Living closer in, in a smaller space, where you don’t have that commute,” he said. “It’s definitely something we talk about. Before it was ‘we spend too much time driving.’ Now, it’s ‘we spend too much time and money driving.’ ”

Across the nation, the realization is taking hold that rising energy prices are less a momentary blip than a change with lasting consequences. The shift to costlier fuel is threatening to slow the decades-old migration away from cities, while exacerbating the housing downturn by diminishing the appeal of larger homes set far from urban jobs.

In Atlanta, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Minneapolis, homes beyond the urban core have been falling in value faster than those within, according to an analysis by Moody’s Economy.com.

In Denver, housing prices in the urban core rose steadily from 2003 until late last year compared with previous years, before dipping nearly 5 percent in the last three months of last year, according to Economy.com. But house prices in the suburbs began falling earlier, in the middle of 2006, and then accelerated, dropping by 7 percent during the last three months of the year from a year earlier.

Many factors have propelled the unraveling of American real estate, from the mortgage crisis to a staggering excess of home construction, making it hard to pinpoint the impact of any single force. But economists and real estate agents are growing convinced that the rising cost of energy is now a primary factor pushing home prices down in the suburbs, particularly in the outer rings.

More than three-fourths of prospective home buyers are now more inclined to live in an urban area because of fuel prices, according to a recent survey of 903 real estate agents with Coldwell Banker, the national brokerage firm.

Some now proclaim the unfolding demise of suburbia.

“Many low-density suburbs and McMansion subdivisions, including some that are lovely and affluent today, may become what inner cities became in the 1960s and ’70s — slums characterized by poverty, crime and decay,” declared Christopher B. Leinberger, an urban land use expert, in a recent essay in The Atlantic Monthly.

Most experts do not share such apocalyptic visions, seeing instead a gradual reordering.

“It’s like an ebbing of this suburban tide,” said Joe Cortright, an economist at the consulting group Impresa Inc. in Portland, Ore. “There’s going to be this kind of reversal of desirability. Typically, Americans have felt the periphery was most desirable, and now there’s going to be a reversion to the center.”

In a recent study, Mr. Cortright found that house prices in the urban centers of Chicago, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Portland and Tampa have fared significantly better than those in the suburbs. So-called exurbs — communities sprouting on the distant edges of metropolitan areas — have suffered worst of all, Mr. Cortright found.

Basic household arithmetic appears to be furthering the trend: In 2003, the average suburban household spent $1,422 a year on gasoline, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. By April of this year — when gas prices were about $3.60 a gallon— the same household was spending $3,196 a year, more than doubling consumption in dollar terms in less than five years.

In March, Americans drove 11 billion fewer miles on public roads than in the same month the previous year, a 4.3 percent decrease — the sharpest one-month drop since the Federal Highway Administration began keeping records in 1942.

Long before the recent spike in the price of energy, environmentalists decried suburban sprawl a waste of land, energy and tax dollars. Governments from Virginia to California have in recent decades lavished resources on building roads and schools for new subdivisions in the outer rings of development while skimping on maintaining facilities closer in. Many governments now focus on reviving their downtowns.

In Denver — a classic Western city, with snarling freeway traffic across a vast acreage of strip malls, ranch houses and office parks — the city has had an urban renaissance over the last decade.

A $6.1 billion commuter rail system has been in the works over the last four years, drawing people downtown without cars, while stimulating swift sales of densely clustered condos near stations.

Coors Field, the intimate, brick-fronted baseball stadium for the Colorado Rockies, has transformed the surrounding area from a desolate skid row into fashionable Lower Downtown, a neighborhood of restaurants and microbreweries in restored warehouses. Along the Platte River, new condos set on a park strip offer an arresting tableau of glass, steel, and futuristic geometry, attracting throngs of buyers at rising prices.

“This is a city where it’s fun to be in the center,” said Tim Burleigh, 56, who sold his house in the suburbs and now walks to Rockies games from his downtown condo.

To Denver’s mayor, John W. Hickenlooper, $4 gasoline offers a useful incentive for such plans.

“It can be an accelerator,” he said during an interview inside the imposing column-fronted City Hall. “It’s not going to be the dagger in the heart of suburban sprawl, but there’s a certain inclination, a certain momentum back toward downtown.”

Dollars spent at the gas station leave fewer for mortgage payments. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com, calculated that the jump in gas prices from $2 a gallon to $4 has taken $50 a month from the typical suburban commuter driving 25 miles a day.

“The fuel price change should be capitalized into the cost of houses,” Mr. Zandi said. “Prices in the outer suburbs will get clobbered.”

Elizabeth is the archetype of a once-rural community sucked into the orbit of the expanding metropolis, its ranch lands given over to porches, picket fences and two-car garages.

Megan Werner, 39, a mother of three, moved here five years ago from a dense suburb closer to Denver. She and her husband bought a home set on a 1.5-acre lot in the Deer Creek Farm subdivision. The space justified her husband’s 40-minute commute.

“We wanted more than a postage stamp,” she said, as her 5-year-old daughter walked barefoot across the driveway.

It used to cost her about $30 to fill her Honda minivan with gas. Now, it is more like $50, and she coordinates her trips — shopping in town, combined with dance lessons for her children. But she has no thoughts of leaving.

“I can open up my door and my kids can play,” Ms. Werner said.

For others, though, new math is altering the choice of where to live. Houses are sitting on the market longer than in years past. “The pool of buyers is diminishing,” said Jace Glick, an agent with Re/Max Alliance in Parker, Colo., next to Elizabeth.

Juanita Johnson and her husband, both retired Denver schoolteachers, moved here last August, after three decades in the city and a few years in the mountains. They bought a four-bedroom house for $415,000.

Last winter, they spent $3,000 on propane for heat, she said. Suddenly, this seemed like a place to flee. “We’d sell if we could, but we’d lose our shirt,” Ms. Johnson said. Recently she counted 15 sale signs. One home nearby is listed below $400,000.

“I was so glad to get out of the city, the pollution the traffic, the crime,” she said. Now, the suburbs seem mean. “I wouldn’t do this again.”

---The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/business...p;ex=1214625600

LaoPo

There have been warnings for many years from environmentalists, who were laughed at and disparaged as being 'nutters' by the vested interested media, about what would happen if people did not change their wasteful ways and live more ecologically sustainable lives. Now everyone's jumping up and down over the aircon/heating/transport bills. Even if the price of oil did come down tomorrow, given what's happened recently, could you guarantee it wouldn't happen again the day after?

[slapout]

To answer the question above about how long do contracts last. Natural gas contracts were usually for a 5 to 10 year period for the small producers in the US, Oil contracts were dependent upon volume location etc (as were gas contracts) but were normally no more than 1 year. To answer PB questions is difficult as there are so many variables. Many refining contracts for oil supply were at one time for 1 to 3 year, but doubt anyone is going out that far now with the unstable market. What is very apparent is that fuel oil price increases based on futures market is the next thing to theft. The refiners, suppliers, and fuel stations are selling product that is already in storage tanks and the oil used was paid for several months ago. We as the end user are bankrolling them with money up front for purchase in the future of replacement product. A lot of budgets in the oil sector are at least 5 year, with yearly review. I have been told that the big players are using 10 to 20 years and more in planning etc, makes sense when you look at time frames for construction of piplelines, refineries, offshore platforms etc.

[sriracha john]

Shell to increase petrol prices tomorrow

Shell will tomorrow raise its petrol and diesel by 40 satang per litre, bringing the retail prices to the new record highs.

The octane-95 petrol will be Bt43.59 while diesel will be Bt43.44.

The decision followed PTT's decision to raise its pump prices by 80 satang per litre today, to catch up with other retailers' move late last month.

Pump prices are increased in line with the recent spike in global oil prices. West Texas today retreated to US$141 per barrel, before hitting a new record high at $142.99 on Friday on concerns of supply disruption due to violence in Nigeria, Iran and Libya.

- The Nation

[sriracha john]

Oil passes $143 on Middle East tensions

Oil prices passed $143 a barrel Tuesday amid concerns about a potential conflict between Iran and Israel and a weakening dollar.

"You have supply-side concerns, such as the rhetoric on Iran, that will likely keep a floor under prices," said Victor Shum, an analyst with Purvin & Gertz in Singapore. "I don't see much resistance to $150, which could happen in the coming weeks."

- Associated Press

[Farma]

Get used to high oil prices: King Abdullah

P.K. Abdul Ghafour | Arab News

JEDDAH: Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah said yesterday that the current oil price was cheap compared to prices of alternative energy products available in the world and called upon people in consuming countries to adapt with rising oil prices.

“We have nothing to do with the current sharp increase in oil prices,” the king said in a wide-ranging interview with Kuwait’s Assiyassah Arabic newspaper, and asked consuming countries to reduce tax to cut prices. “Consuming countries should reduce taxes of petroleum products if they really wanted to soften the burden on consumers,” he said.

Cont http://arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&...;m=7&y=2008

[sriracha john]

PTT increases benzene and diesel prices

PTT Pubilc Company Limited has increased its retail prices of benzene by 40 satang a liter and its retail diesel price by 80 satang per liter this morning (July 3rd).

The retail prices of benzene 95 and benzene 91 are 43.29 baht a liter and 42.19 baht a liter respectively. The retail prices of gasohol 95 and gasohol 91 stands at 38.59 baht per liter and 37.79 baht per liter respectively. The retail price of diesel stays at 43.44 baht a liter.

- ThaiNews

===========================================================================

and not to be outdone...

Shell and ESSO increase benzene and gasohol prices by 40 satang/liter

The Shell Company of Thailand Limited and Esso (Thailand) Public Company Limited have raised their retail prices of benzene 95 and gasohol by 40 satang a liter this morning (July 3rd).

The retail price of benzene 95 at ESSO gas stations in Bangkok and vicinities is now 44.09 baht per liter. The retail price of benzene 95 at Shell gas stations in Bangkok and neighboring provinces stands at 43.59 baht a liter.

- ThaiNews

[cclub75]

The retail price of benzene 95 at ESSO gas stations in Bangkok and vicinities is now 44.09 baht per liter.

1 THB to go ! Come on !

We need to change the title of the thread.

It's like a video game. Or horses racing.

With only one big difference : everybody loose at the end.

Ah... wait a minute... someone is speaking in my earphones... "Spe-cu-la-tors !"

Ah ! I feel relieved ! Of course, I forgot : the speculators are the culprits.

Barrel of oil will go back (tomorrow) leo leo at 20 USD... The weather is nice. We are saved. Amen.

Edited July 3, 2008 by cclub75

[sriracha john]

Everyone's getting into the act...

Bangchak, Petronas raise retail oil prices by 60 satang/liter

The Bangchak Petroleum Public Company Limited and Petronas Retail (Thailand) Company Limited have increased their retail oil prices by 60 satang per liter this morning (July 4th).

As a result, the retail price of benzene 91 stands at 42.79 baht a liter, while the retail diesel price stays at 44.04 baht per liter at both gas stations in Bangkok and vicinities.

- ThaiNews (today)

[highdiver]

Get used to high oil prices: King Abdullah

P.K. Abdul Ghafour | Arab News

JEDDAH: Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah said yesterday that the current oil price was cheap compared to prices of alternative energy products available in the world and called upon people in consuming countries to adapt with rising oil prices.

“We have nothing to do with the current sharp increase in oil prices,” the king said in a wide-ranging interview with Kuwait’s Assiyassah Arabic newspaper, and asked consuming countries to reduce tax to cut prices. “Consuming countries should reduce taxes of petroleum products if they really wanted to soften the burden on consumers,” he said.

Cont http://arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&...;m=7&y=2008

i think it will be nice if the King of Thailand will also inform the Saudis ( the worlds largest oil producer) that the price of food is going to go up and they need to

adapt with rising food costs.

Saudi having no more then oil and sand is fully dependent on food imports from food producing countries.. so when they start to pay 145 usd for a kg of rice maybe they will reevaluate the position on oil prices.

all the Saudis need to do is start selling the oil to refineries and on spot market at 40 USD a barrel. this will immediately crash the speculative futures market.

who will buy oil at 145 when the Saudis will sell at 40?

[Plus]

Thailand does not control the price of food and Saudis are not buying anything from Thais either.

I have no idea why Highdiver decided to pick up on Saudis, Thais should be really ashamed of what they did to them.

[soundman]

who will buy oil at 145 when the Saudis will sell at 40?

Why would they want to sell it at $40 when they can get $145? Good samaritans?

[timekeeper]

Oil will be $200 a barrel by xmas

you saw it here first...

[Heng]

Thailand does not control the price of food and Saudis are not buying anything from Thais either.

Actually they do import a good amount of fresh fruit from us.

A couple lots of orchids from yours truly per month as well.

[Plus]

I hope you don't think it's time to tell them to piss off, then.

[scotbeve]

AND some rice...

[Heng]

I hope you don't think it's time to tell them to piss off, then.

Nah, usually it's just 'payment received, thanks' and 'order outbuond on flight....'