Pnom Penh Consulate Fiasco

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Never mind all the hassles - They destroyed your passport based on a stupid whim and lack of prior research!!!! Any cancellation is suspect. What's worse you were in the hospital! Oh, just this once ...screw them. Anyone defending this action on this board should be boiled in lard.

Go back to your home country and get a new passport and come back to Asia. There's always the Phils, Cambodia or if you are not on constant pussy patrol India/Nepal can be great. Other options Malaysia and Indonesia. There's also Nicaragua, Panama and Cuba too!

Thailand does suck far too often these days. This board is far too apologist of the Thai government. They take it or leave it attitude displayed by so many new commers -all of which have not been involved in such situations YET.

They could have warned you and sent you on your way to get your life in order. The action like so many Thai -churlish and petulant.

People like you make things too good for the "have's" and bloated mafia government.

Take care sir and good luck.

If we are only puppets for the Thai government as you seem to indicate, one wonders why you, a newbie, persist on this forum.

[otherstuff1957]

eye'll stay hear unless eye get n e similar problems like pyman has received. my plan is two stay hear and get an english teacher job. 4 now eye have too stay hear on touring visas. eye have know choice 4 da moment, dude

u'r kiding about wanting to b an English Teacher arnt u? eye think you might want to brush up ur English spelling and grammar a bit before you get in front of some Thai students.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

eye'll stay hear unless eye get n e similar problems like pyman has received. my plan is two stay hear and get an english teacher job. 4 now eye have too stay hear on touring visas. eye have know choice 4 da moment, dude

u'r kiding about wanting to b an English Teacher arnt u? eye think you might want to brush up ur English spelling and grammar a bit before you get in front of some Thai students.

Snakestick is an idiot.

[Pieman]

Wow! We're really kicking here but I 'm beginning to think that we're heading off topic I made my original post by way of information targetted at anyone who was thinking of going to Pnom Penh for a visa, that's why I posted it on Thaivisa.com.

The essential point I was attempting to make was really very simple: in the period of time that I have lived in Thailand I have, I sincerely believe, contributed to the Thai economyand its people. Yet there is a guy in Pnom Penh, representing the Thai government, who plainly does not care about any of that and, because the reasons he gave for refusing my visa are clearly illogical and ludicrous, I am left with the feeling that he doesn't care if I stay or go (remember, he is officially representing the view of the Thai government.) That's fine, it's my choice, I know. But surely it's not unreasonable of me to provide feedback to this forum and to beg a few questions of any Thai citizen who might be reading this thread. Yes, I was angry at the time (still am) but is that unreasonable?

How the ###### we graduated from this to comments about whether a poster would make a good English teacher or not is beyond my ken!

Thanks to all who posted supportive comments. To those of you who are only interested in ranting and flaming, get a life.

To those who get off by looking for negatives and who accuse me of breaking rules when a more careful reading of my postings would clearly show that I have not (yes Mr Brownstone, I'm talking to you) please take your over-ripe ego somewhere else. Try stupidfarangmoralists.com. If you dont want to help, shut the ###### up.

Pieman

[snakestick]

u r write pyman, this thread has gotten off topic. da bottom line hear is that youre experience in PP was a nitemare. eye hope know 1 ever goes thru that again. eye sea that another dude had a bum trip deal over their two. eye think every won should learn from ewe and da other dude. eye no eye have learned something. thank ewe four trying too help people out hear at da forum. hope youre problems can bee solved. e-mail me four any advice ewe may need

[thaiflyer1]

e-mail me four any advice ewe may need

snakie ewe krack me up..........

[dr_Pat_Pong]

e-mail me four any advice ewe may need

snakie ewe krack me up..........

I figure that Snakie is a sandwich short of a picnic. Not the full dollar.

[p_brownstone]

To those who get off by looking for negatives and who accuse me of breaking rules when a more careful reading of my postings would clearly show that I have not (yes Mr Brownstone, I'm talking to you) please take your over-ripe ego somewhere else. Try stupidfarangmoralists.com. If you dont want to help, shut the ###### up.

Pieman

My dear chap.

Nowhere in your original Post do you indicate that you had ever worked legally in Thailand.

Given that your present predicament clearly shows your contempt for the spirit, if not the letter, of Thai Immigration regulations it was not unreasonable to assume that you would show similar distain for the Employment and Tax regulations too.

I would also point out that your arrogant expectation that the Immigration official should treat you as a special case and allow you to continue to flout Thai Immigration regulations:

1. I calculate that in the time I've lived in Thailand I've been a net cash importer of more than 7 million Thai baht. Do you want this money or would you prefer I helped the economy of another, more deserving country?

2 I have provide accomodation, food, transport, education, curtains, blankets, cookers, wasing machines, motorbikes, LOVE!!, doctors and hospital fees to at least 5 Thai people AND their dependants for 7 years. Do you want me to continue to do this or should I leave them to fend for themselves?

would more likely work against you rather than attract the gratitude of the Immigration officer for your condescending attitude towards his Country and its’ citizens.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

To those who get off by looking for negatives and who accuse me of breaking rules when a more careful reading of my postings would clearly show that I have not (yes Mr Brownstone, I'm talking to you) please take your over-ripe ego somewhere else. Try stupidfarangmoralists.com. If you dont want to help, shut the ###### up.

Pieman

My dear chap.

Nowhere in your original Post do you indicate that you had ever worked legally in Thailand.

Given that your present predicament clearly shows your contempt for the spirit, if not the letter, of Thai Immigration regulations it was not unreasonable to assume that you would show similar distain for the Employment and Tax regulations too.

I would also point out that your arrogant expectation that the Immigration official should treat you as a special case and allow you to continue to flout Thai Immigration regulations:

1. I calculate that in the time I've lived in Thailand I've been a net cash importer of more than 7 million Thai baht. Do you want this money or would you prefer I helped the economy of another, more deserving country?

2 I have provide accomodation, food, transport, education, curtains, blankets, cookers, wasing machines, motorbikes, LOVE!!, doctors and hospital fees to at least 5 Thai people AND their dependants for 7 years. Do you want me to continue to do this or should I leave them to fend for themselves?

would more likely work against you rather than attract the gratitude of the Immigration officer for your condescending attitude towards his Country and its’ citizens.

So many of 'em expect Thailand to tailor make the laws to suit each individual who cannot comply with married, retirement, or financial requirements for annual visa extensions. This guy says he brings in a million baht a year but cannot make the banking/income requirements.

[LAW PHOO CHAAI]

to everyone who has slagged Pieman, go back and read his original post and concentrate on his statement.

owned three businesses and paid taxes and had the proper visa's. appears to be legal (p. brownstone)

net cash importer of 7 mil baht not necessarily all personal income.

other times used numerous 30 day t. visas including one overstay, all legal except for the overstay and that was recitified by the paying fine.

attempted to get "proper" visa and was perceived as an illegal,non-compliant, rule bender, visa abuser or any other status anyone wishes to choose to classify Pieman is not true.

sorry if this post is redundant of Pieman's posts but he was shafted by the official who didn't have any grounds to refuse the requested visa.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

to everyone who has slagged Pieman, go back and read his original post and concentrate on his statement.

owned three businesses and paid taxes and had the proper visa's. appears to be legal (p. brownstone)

net cash importer of 7 mil baht not necessarily all personal income.

other times used numerous 30 day t. visas including one overstay, all legal except for the overstay and that was recitified by the paying fine.

attempted to get "proper" visa and was perceived as an illegal,non-compliant, rule bender, visa abuser or any other status anyone wishes to choose to classify Pieman is not true.

sorry if this post is redundant of Pieman's posts but he was shafted by the official who didn't have any grounds to refuse the requested visa.

Other than that the man was a de facto resident and certainly not a genuine tourist.

[lopburi3]

to everyone who has slagged Pieman, go back and read his original post and concentrate on his statement.

  owned three businesses and paid taxes and had the proper visa's. appears to be legal (p. brownstone)

  net cash importer of 7 mil baht not necessarily all personal income.

other times used numerous 30 day t. visas including one overstay, all legal except for the overstay and that was recitified by the paying fine. 

attempted to get "proper" visa and was perceived as an illegal,non-compliant, rule bender, visa abuser or any other status anyone wishes to choose to classify Pieman is not true.

  sorry if this post is redundant of Pieman's posts but he was shafted by the official who didn't have any grounds to refuse the requested visa.

Other than that the man was a de facto resident and certainly not a genuine tourist.

And the fact this information was not in his original post.

And that the visa officer was well within his rights to not issue a visa in any case.

[LAW PHOO CHAAI]

Doc, prior visa's is de facto and circumtances do change,

however the ruling for his present visa request is for

the present and nothing else.

[threelegcowboy]

All,

It is no secret that aquiring tourist visas in PP is near impossible. A review of PP on this board would have given a clue.

I went to said office expecting problems for a 2+1 tourist visa and I got turned down. Written on my application was two additional requirements. 1. Thai bank account with B800,000. 2. Letter from landloard. They told me to get my 30 tourist visa on entry. This was 9 mounths.

There is a sign on the wall that says you can be turned down and fee CAN BE nonrefunded. So I did not argue. There was a total of two falangs at that office.

Apparntly everybody knows to go to Vientiane to get these visas as there are about 300 per day doing their visas. As I understand things have changed there in the last few months. They want the local agencies to help with the forms etc so Thai/Laos can make some money.

Some advice has been given to me to go Singapore and apply for an O visa. I may do this as things may change.

TIT the goal post move frequently and it is all about money.

LLL

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Doc, prior visa's is de facto and circumtances do change,

however the ruling for his present visa request is for

the present and nothing else.

They are entitled to come to a conclusion based on the travel history revealed in the applicants passport.

[sriracha john]

Other than that the man was a de facto resident and certainly not a genuine tourist.

Just out of curiosity, but is their a definitive definition for the term "tourist" according to Thai law? 

[Axel]

Just out of curiosity, but is their a definitive definition for the term "tourist" according to Thai law?

LOL

Thai law I do not know in this case.

The nearest could be construed from MFA:

A tourist is somebody entering Thailand for tourism purposes

guess this clears up the question.

Thesaurus: (I quote only the most relevant IMHO)

Entry: tourist

Function: noun

Definition: visitor

Synonyms: day-tripper, excursionist, globetrotter, jet-setter, journeyer, sightseer, tripper, vacationist,

Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)

Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

[LAW PHOO CHAAI]

Lopburi, thanks i stand corrected the only fact not mentioned in the original post was my line about three businesses etc.

Doc, the perusal of the passport didn't show cause to refuse the applicant the officer

ruled on a whim. was his passport stamped for a 30 day visa? if so,then there must not have been just cause for refusal of the 30 day stamp. same same na?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dunno. I haven't seen the passport, but the holder seemed to have several years Thai tourist experience based on what he said.

[sriracha john]

Just out of curiosity, but is their a definitive definition for the term "tourist" according to Thai law? 

LOL

Thai law I do not know in this case.

The nearest could be construed from MFA:

A tourist is somebody entering Thailand for tourism purposes

guess this clears up the question.

Thesaurus: (I quote only the most relevant IMHO)

Entry: tourist

Function: noun

Definition: visitor

Synonyms: day-tripper, excursionist, globetrotter, jet-setter, journeyer, sightseer, tripper, vacationist,

Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)

Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Thanks Axel,

That kind of proves my point. If the MFA and Immigration can't clearly define exactly what is a tourist, who are we to decide for them?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Just out of curiosity, but is their a definitive definition for the term "tourist" according to Thai law? 

LOL

Thai law I do not know in this case.

The nearest could be construed from MFA:

A tourist is somebody entering Thailand for tourism purposes

guess this clears up the question.

Thesaurus: (I quote only the most relevant IMHO)

Entry: tourist

Function: noun

Definition: visitor

Synonyms: day-tripper, excursionist, globetrotter, jet-setter, journeyer, sightseer, tripper, vacationist,

Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)

Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Thanks Axel,

That kind of proves my point. If the MFA and Immigration can't clearly define exactly what is a tourist, who are we to decide for them?

Many years staying as a tourist might just be pushing it a bit don't you think ? Not many places would let you get away with it all.

[Khun ?]

Pieman,

I agree with you on most all topics as I too have been her for four (4) years taking care of a Thai family of five (5). I pay all the same expences that you do. But it seems to me that most of the negative comments on this website come from our fellow Farungs who are only in business because they rip other Farungs off...

I dont mean this to all but if the shoe fits wear it! I know most say "Well you should have the proper Visa in the first place" But forget about all the could haves and should haves...This is a forum...Lets talk about what we currently have and how to get what's right or needed!!!

I'm not going into any details of my situation but I want all on this forum to understand that the ONLY REASON Farungs come to this web site is for HELP or ADVISE not to be belittled by other Farungs!!!!

If this forum is not intended to help other farungs then so be it! I believe if you have nothing positive to say THEN SHUT THE #### UP. We all only need positive feedbacks, help, guidance etc...

I know some are the goody two shoes, but alot of us are like the Pieman, are getting screwed because the ones that have business's or contacts have it made and don't care about us little people with good intentions or a heart.

I hope I haven't rocked anyone's boat but if I did, before you speak Sit back and Take a good look at yourself and think why am I part of this Forum if not to help others........

KHUNDAN SENDS

What do you mean shut the **** up. This guy is a defacto resident which was pointed out to him many times before. If they give him another 30 days why should they assume he will not be back again in 30 days. They are saying why did you come here if another place was closer to him. He says he brung 7 mil baht in country but was this from a monthly pension income or for his 3 previous businesses. The guy painted himself into a corner and immigration sees the same day after day. Waiting for a year to correct his problem may of caused him to only be able to obtain the visa he needs back home.

Some of such people have been on the run from the law for years and maybe don't want to go back home. This may be an easy way for immigration to finally put a stop to this, all to often disreguard for immigration rules. Looks like this place will no longer be a participant in the de facto residents scheme.

Their is many more who have been more than 10 years and these are the same type that end up running scams on other countrymen and foreigners. Time to put a 5 year no entry stamp in their passports and send them home. When word gets around you can bet people will start obeying the rules and there will be no more, I will just pop over the boarder for another 30 day for the next several years. At least this way when one of these de facto's rip off someone they will be a registered guest somewhere and be tracked down and made to be accountable for their actions. Why even have immigration if people can stay forever on 30 day entry permits.

[Axel]

Thanks Axel,

That kind of proves my point. If the MFA and Immigration can't clearly define exactly what is a tourist, who are we to decide for them?

Shua, as they say.

But a bit of common sense should help as well.

IMHO somebody who stays here for years except for a few days on a visa-run is not a tourist.

Somebody who builds a house in the name of the GF is no tourist.

Admitted, the Thai imm. laws make it difficult for somebody unmarried and not 50 yo to stay here, except with 3 million Baht or the (soon defunct?) Thailand Elite card.

Thailand in fact is just lenient but seems it is changing, perhaps too many used the 30 days excemption, or I said it before, mis-used it.

[KHUNDAN]

I am most sorry if I have offended anyone on this site, as I was only trying to make a point that some of us (Or at least Myself) are here in Thailand with good intentions and love it here...

I have never had any problems with Immigration here for the four years I have been here.. I built a home here, have purchased motor vehicles and motorcycles as well as normal things for a home and have taken care of five (5) Thai citizens for these four years...I don't regret anything I have done and I only want to be hre on a better Visa class other than Tourist so that I dont have to do the runs all the time and so that I don't have to worry about another farung messing things up for the rest.

I know if you read my post before you will know I'm a Retired U.S. Marine of 44 years of age. Have a monthly income that supports all six (6) of us with no problems at all. I wish I could be 50 or 55 tommorrow so that I could get a retirement Visa but that cannot and will not happen...

Some tell me to get married...Well I was married for fifthteen years before and I cannot see that right now. I love the girl I'm with and am really thinking about getting married next summer here but I have not asked the question yet even though I know the answer would be Yes...I just want to continue what I'm doing but with a better Visa class.

Would like to say thanks to Sunbelt Asia for responding to my post the first time, and I sent an email but never got a responce.

Let's all try and help eachother and not talk about hearsay's to much, and only state what we know if possible please. Since I joined this forum many times I have been puzzeled as to what was true and what was hearsay, like money shown at the borders etc...I have never had to show any monies and have never had any bad experiences with Immigration Official here..

As a matter of fact last month I went to Bangkok Immigration and spoke with an Immigration Official who cleared alot of hearsay's up for me. He was very helpful and has given me some easy and clear guidance...He also gave me an amulet of the King as a gift.

This forum is for helping other's not belittling them, at least I hope so...

Take care to all and if there is anything I could ever do to help someone let me know...By Ourselves we are limited, With others we are limitless!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am most sorry if I have offended anyone on this site, as I was only trying to make a point that some of us (Or at least Myself) are here in Thailand with good intentions and love it here...

I have never had any problems with Immigration here for the four years I have been here.. I built a home here, have purchased motor vehicles and motorcycles as well as normal things for a home and have taken care of five (5) Thai citizens for these four years...I don't regret anything I have done and I only want to be hre on a better Visa class other than Tourist so that I dont have to do the runs all the time and so that I don't have to worry about another farung messing things up for the rest.

I know if you read my post before you will know I'm a Retired U.S. Marine of 44 years of age. Have a monthly income that supports all six (6) of us with no problems at all. I wish I could be 50 or 55 tommorrow so that I could get a retirement Visa but that cannot and will not happen...

Some tell me to get married...Well I was married for fifthteen years before and I cannot see that right now. I love the girl I'm with and am really thinking about getting married next summer here but I have not asked the question yet even though I know the answer would be Yes...I just want to continue what I'm doing but with a better Visa class.

Would like to say thanks to Sunbelt Asia for responding to my post the first time, and I sent an email but never got a responce.

Let's all try and help eachother and not talk about hearsay's to much, and only state what we know if possible please. Since I joined this forum many times I have been puzzeled as to what was true and what was hearsay, like money shown at the borders etc...I have never had to show any monies and have never had any bad experiences with Immigration Official here..

As a matter of fact last month I went to Bangkok Immigration and spoke with an Immigration Official who cleared alot of hearsay's up for me. He was very helpful and has given me some easy and clear guidance...He also gave me an amulet of the King as a gift.

This forum is for helping other's not belittling them, at least I hope so...

Take care to all and if there is anything I could ever do to help someone let me know...By Ourselves we are limited, With others we are limitless!

Very nice sentiments Khundan. A most welcome contribution. Many thanks. It is only 50 years old to retire. That has to be better than 55 Mr Marine.

[sriracha john]

Just out of curiosity, but is their a definitive definition for the term "tourist" according to Thai law? 

LOL

Thai law I do not know in this case.

The nearest could be construed from MFA:

A tourist is somebody entering Thailand for tourism purposes

guess this clears up the question.

Thesaurus: (I quote only the most relevant IMHO)

Entry: tourist

Function: noun

Definition: visitor

Synonyms: day-tripper, excursionist, globetrotter, jet-setter, journeyer, sightseer, tripper, vacationist,

Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)

Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Thanks Axel,

That kind of proves my point. If the MFA and Immigration can't clearly define exactly what is a tourist, who are we to decide for them?

Many years staying as a tourist might just be pushing it a bit don't you think ? Not many places would let you get away with it all.

That's also part of my point, Doc. I simply don't know if it's pushing it. If foreigners AND Immigration/MFA want to follow the letter of the law, then they simply need to provide a definitive definition of what exactly is a tourist into their law. At what point can they or anyone draw the line as to what precisely constitutes a tourist? 2 weeks? 3 months? 6 months? 6 years? I think a point could be made that it's possible to tour Thailand for years and years, given it's diverse topography, culture, society. The tourist moniker is a very arbitrary, subjective, and ill-defined word being tossed about. If they want everyone to comply with their tourist regulations, it would go a long to simply spell out what precisely they are, same as other countries have done. They've already done that for other categories.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

In those synonyms the word resident doesn't appear. Western societies are never going to permit tourists to wander around ad infinitum are they ? They should define it, but alas, they wont.

[PeaceBlondie]

In those synonyms the word resident doesn't appear. Western societies are never going to permit tourists to wander around ad infinitum are they ?  They should define it, but alas, they wont.

Good point, doctor: Western countries have their own immigration laws, and some of them are quite strict. Thailand has the right to control its borders and the visitors to the Kingdom.

Sometimes it's amazing or humorous to see people just wander into Thailand, stay indefinitely, make endless border runs, not have the cash in the bank, not have proof of income or support, and then they want special treatment or privileges.

On the other hand, the Thai govt. does seem to put almost insurmountable barriers to a large number of self-supporting people (such as the English teachers the Thai govt. seems to sometimes say they seek). And the military retirees in their 40's can't get a retirement visa even if their pension is 80,000 baht per month.

Indeed, the Thai government doesn't publish clear regulations. Then again, some of the Western countries don't do that, either.

[orchis]

Could he not have kept one of the three businesses (if they were legally established here) driven up the capital to meet the present requirements and employed enough Thai people and from that have kept a Non Imm B, which with two one year extensions on the visa (makes total of 3 years) have requested residency?

I only opened one business and have been ok for 9 yrs, no residency yet though. I dont understand the problem if you had businesses already, open another one.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Could he not have kept one of the three businesses (if they were legally established here) driven up the capital to meet the present requirements and employed enough Thai people and from that have kept a Non Imm B, which with two one year extensions on the visa (makes total of 3 years) have requested residency?

I only opened one business and have been ok for 9 yrs, no residency yet though. I dont understand the problem if you had businesses already, open another one.

That sounds a little bit to logical for the guy. He'd much prefer to whinge and whine.Remember he said he'd brought 7 million baht in over 7 years yet he cannot show enough funds to comply with the retirement visa extension requirements