4 Thai Employees

[Tod]

Hi,

Does somebody knows if it's possible to avoid having 4 Thai employees in your company and still be able to have your work permit and be legal?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hi,

Does somebody knows if it's possible to avoid having 4 Thai employees in your company and still be able to have your work permit and be legal?

are you married to a Thai Tod ?

[Tod]

Hi,

Does somebody knows if it's possible to avoid having 4 Thai employees in your company and still be able to have your work permit and be legal?

are you married to a Thai Tod ?

I'm not married yet but I could get married if that would help. But I think even if you're married you still need 2 thai employees.

I would like to go down to 0 thai employee is that possible?

[kiakaha]

I always thought that the thai to non-thai employee ratio was a requirement only for the extension of your immigration permit of stay on the basis of having a work permit, not a requirement for the issuance of a work permit. Likewise for the minimum salary requirements based on you nationality.

So for example if you have a multi entry Non-B , you can come and go every 90 days, not worry about permit of stay extensions.It will result in more frequent trips to extend your work permit validity date however.

[hansnl]

Hi,

Does somebody knows if it's possible to avoid having 4 Thai employees in your company and still be able to have your work permit and be legal?

are you married to a Thai Tod ?

I'm not married yet but I could get married if that would help. But I think even if you're married you still need 2 thai employees.

I would like to go down to 0 thai employee is that possible?

Why would you avoid having 4 Thai employees?

Any special reason for that?

You would get married to loose 2 Thai employees?

Wow, it goes very far!

Good luck

[Tod]

Hi,

Does somebody knows if it's possible to avoid having 4 Thai employees in your company and still be able to have your work permit and be legal?

are you married to a Thai Tod ?

I'm not married yet but I could get married if that would help. But I think even if you're married you still need 2 thai employees.

I would like to go down to 0 thai employee is that possible?

Why would you avoid having 4 Thai employees?

Any special reason for that?

You would get married to loose 2 Thai employees?

Wow, it goes very far!

Good luck

I have an internet cafe travel agency and motorbike rental shop so I really dont need employees.

I work whit my girlfriend and we've been together for about 2 years. So if getting married could help that would'nt be a problem.

She does'nt care about beeing married or not and so do I.

[Tod]

I always thought that the thai to non-thai employee ratio was a requirement only for the extension of your immigration permit of stay on the basis of having a work permit, not a requirement for the issuance of a work permit. Likewise for the minimum salary requirements based on you nationality.

So for example if you have a multi entry Non-B , you can come and go every 90 days, not worry about permit of stay extensions.It will result in more frequent trips to extend your work permit validity date however.

So to extend my visa and work permit every 90 days I would just need to cross the border and come back or I would need to go to a Thai embassy.

[kiakaha]

I always thought that the thai to non-thai employee ratio was a requirement only for the extension of your immigration permit of stay on the basis of having a work permit, not a requirement for the issuance of a work permit. Likewise for the minimum salary requirements based on you nationality.

So for example if you have a multi entry Non-B , you can come and go every 90 days, not worry about permit of stay extensions.It will result in more frequent trips to extend your work permit validity date however.

So to extend my visa and work permit every 90 days I would just need to cross the border and come back or I would need to go to a Thai embassy.

You dont extend your visa.You extend/renew your permit of stay by doing a border run. Permits and Visas are different things.Your Visa will be a 1 year multi entry Non B.This Visa allows you to travel to Thailand and on entry be given a 90 day permit of stay.

You would cross the border, come back and then extend your work permit based on your new 90 day permit of stay stamp.Requires lots more trips to the labor dept as you are constantly extending your WP every 90 days to match your new immigration permit of stay duration (as opposed to people with 1 year immigration permit extensions who go once a year), but it is a way to get around the employee ratio requirement.... I believe.

[Tod]

I always thought that the thai to non-thai employee ratio was a requirement only for the extension of your immigration permit of stay on the basis of having a work permit, not a requirement for the issuance of a work permit. Likewise for the minimum salary requirements based on you nationality.

So for example if you have a multi entry Non-B , you can come and go every 90 days, not worry about permit of stay extensions.It will result in more frequent trips to extend your work permit validity date however.

So to extend my visa and work permit every 90 days I would just need to cross the border and come back or I would need to go to a Thai embassy.

You dont extend your visa.You extend/renew your permit of stay by doing a border run. Permits and Visas are different things.Your Visa will be a 1 year multi entry Non B.This Visa allows you to travel to Thailand and on entry be given a 90 day permit of stay.

You would cross the border, come back and then extend your work permit based on your new 90 day permit of stay stamp.Requires lots more trips to the labor dept as you are constantly extending your WP every 90 days to match your new immigration permit of stay duration (as opposed to people with 1 year immigration permit extensions who go once a year), but it is a way to get around the employee ratio requirement.... I believe.

Mmmh ok... So when you extend your work permit every 90 days do you need to go to Bangkok, or is there other places in Thailand where you can do that? And do you have to pay for your WP extension every 3 month?

[lopburi3]

Work permits are issued by the local labor office - nothing to do with Bangkok unless you work here.

[Tod]

Work permits are issued by the local labor office - nothing to do with Bangkok unless you work here.

Ok, thanks a lot for the answers. Last questions, do I have to pay for my WP extensions every 3 month or only once a year?

And to renew my visa and WP after one year, what do I need to show exactly?

[lopburi3]

There is a major change taking place as I understand it and all work permits will be one year but fee will be in the 20k range.

[Tod]

There is a major change taking place as I understand it and all work permits will be one year but fee will be in the 20k range.

So what about the 4 thai employees? Does that changes something? I m not worried for the 1st year, I just want to know what are they goin to ask me and what will I have to show to renew it

[Tod]

Okaaaay I found the answer to my question:

" This has already changed since Feb. You now need 4 Thai employees to get a work permit. ( Before it used to just the criteria for Immigration) The only exception is if you are working for a sole proprietorship or are a sole proprietorship under the Amity treaty for the USA/Thailand and are married to a Thai, then its 2 Thai employees required.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com"

The only thing I dont understand is that in their message sunbelt says "This has already changed since Feb"

I went to see a lawyer of Sunbelt asia last month (March 2008) and he told me that everything was OK, dont need any Thai employee.

And in their message now they say that you actually need 4 thai employees since February...

Does'nt look very serious to me...

[Maestro]

Sunbelt wrote that this is currently implemented by the Bangkok labour department. If and when other provinces will follow cannot be predicted.

--

Maestro

[Sunbelt Asia]

Okaaaay I found the answer to my question:

" This has already changed since Feb. You now need 4 Thai employees to get a work permit. ( Before it used to just the criteria for Immigration) The only exception is if you are working for a sole proprietorship or are a sole proprietorship under the Amity treaty for the USA/Thailand and are married to a Thai, then its 2 Thai employees required.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com"

The only thing I dont understand is that in their message sunbelt says "This has already changed since Feb"

I went to see a lawyer of Sunbelt asia last month (March 2008) and he told me that everything was OK, dont need any Thai employee.

And in their message now they say that you actually need 4 thai employees since February...

Does'nt look very serious to me...

On 2007-03-02 11:18:08 I wrote…

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t&p=1173720

I often have joked that my tombstone will read " Here lies the man who stated everyday : "Four Thai employees in a Limited Co. are not required for a work permit "

Not sure if the tombstone will be big enough. However I have said it so much everyday... 20-30 times a day, I'm sure the reflex will be there to still be saying it, even after I have faded away.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

So why a year later, the change after over a thousand posts saying the same thing as above since Oct 2004? Because even if the regulation hasn’t changed, its how the interpretation of the province Labor Dept head understands it. For instance the last 4 years, in Chiang Mai, they have required one Thai employee for a work permit. Where does it say you need one Thai employee in the regulation?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry188450

It doesn’t anywhere except article 8 that says “Article 8. Considering permitting otherwise than the cases or criteria herein prescribed shall be the power of the Director-General.” That means that Labor Dept Director-General in that province requires it, so be it. They make the rules and this regulation is only a guideline. The same goes in Nitcha Thani which required Thai employees the last three years while Bangkok did not.

Since Feb they have been stricter in Bangkok. The reason some of our clients have not had a problem with needing 4 Thai employees at this time. We had written a letter explaining why they don’t have a social fund filing for four Thai employees. Some days we submit the work permit application and they don’t ask for any letter or Social Fund filing showing proof of Thai employees. Other days they do ask for it or come back asking for proof.

A new regulation will be coming out but who knows what it will say. Bottom line I’m sure it will have “Considering permitting otherwise than the cases or criteria herein prescribed shall be the power of the Director-General.”

Some days, just like the ocean has tides that change, so does the Labor Dept stance. In Thailand, it can be black and white for years.... then Bammm! It's a great country so you deal with it.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[jstumbo]

The only exception is if you are working for a sole proprietorship or are a sole proprietorship under the Amity treaty for the USA/Thailand and are married to a Thai, then its 2 Thai employees required

Are you saying here that you only need two Thai employees if you are married to a Thai, AND you also have a sole proprietorship (Thai or Amity)? Or are you saying that for a sole proprietorship you do not need any Thai employees, and completely unrelated to that, if you are married to a Thai, you only need 2?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Are you saying here that you only need two Thai employees if you are married to a Thai, AND you also have a sole proprietorship (Thai or Amity)?

Yes

Or are you saying that for a sole proprietorship you do not need any Thai employees, and completely unrelated to that, if you are married to a Thai, you only need 2?

A sole proprietorship has been different from a Thai Limited company in that it ALWAYS has required Thai employees for the last 18 months for any new application of a work permit. The regulation says it could be met also by paying tax in the previous year of 25,000 Baht or 50,000 Baht depending if you were married to a Thai. However, Bangkok no longer on new applications will accept that criteria of tax. That’s the way it has been for the last 18 months.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Tod]

Are you saying here that you only need two Thai employees if you are married to a Thai, AND you also have a sole proprietorship (Thai or Amity)?

Yes

Or are you saying that for a sole proprietorship you do not need any Thai employees, and completely unrelated to that, if you are married to a Thai, you only need 2?

A sole proprietorship has been different from a Thai Limited company in that it ALWAYS has required Thai employees for the last 18 months for any new application of a work permit. The regulation says it could be met also by paying tax in the previous year of 25,000 Baht or 50,000 Baht depending if you were married to a Thai. However, Bangkok no longer on new applications will accept that criteria of tax. That's the way it has been for the last 18 months.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

So is there still a way to "backdoor" that 4 or 2 thai employees thing?

[Sunbelt Asia]

So is there still a way to "backdoor" that 4 or 2 thai employees thing?

Sorry what do you mean "backdoor" thing? What is your goal then I can advise you the best way to go with.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Tod]

So is there still a way to "backdoor" that 4 or 2 thai employees thing?

Sorry what do you mean "backdoor" thing? What is your goal then I can advise you the best way to go with.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Ok, my goal is to start a company and have a work permit but I don't need thai employees. I know that before it was possible to avoid that by doing a border run every 90 days. What about now?

[Galong]

There is a major change taking place as I understand it and all work permits will be one year but fee will be in the 20k range.

That would work for me. I've had to pay that much in bribes to get my one-year visas in recent years. I would prefer to pay a bit more to fill the government's pockets instead of the individual who sees me as an ATM.

[Sunbelt Asia]

So is there still a way to "backdoor" that 4 or 2 thai employees thing?

Sorry what do you mean "backdoor" thing? What is your goal then I can advise you the best way to go with.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Ok, my goal is to start a company and have a work permit but I don't need thai employees. I know that before it was possible to avoid that by doing a border run every 90 days. What about now?

As of right NOW, in most cases the company is allowed to not have Thai employees if a letter is written explaining why you have not hired any Thai employees or filed the Social Fund Report.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com