stroll Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Don't argue with the way things are, find out how it works instead. Good advice...But easier said than done, na'? I had to learn the hard way, but feel philosophical now because I had smooth sailing for a while now (no trouble with German authorities, either, maybe I am getting old, and not being there helps a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMaiC Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 with a democratically elected government military style. The People do vote for these Politicians Right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 "pants 68" said You prats, the world doesn't change for the better unless we critisize the wrong we see around us. first you have got to be able to see exactly what is wrong. what may seem wrong to a loudmouth gap year idealist like yourself is not necessarily the same thing as is wrong for 60 million people born and bred in the country you are a guest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 (edited) topics and opinions concerning the royal family can not be discussed on the forum. /admin Edited October 17, 2004 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 i feel that thaksin runs the place on purely commercial lines , and has brought businessmen into government and has pushed the military into the background , where they are sitting it out until.........? If you look below the surface, you can't really separate business from the Miltary. Business crosses all lines, and the Military is not being pushed into the background at all. It's just that the smart ones are trying to be low-key, and collect their money in relative peace. Of course, in politics,military guys will come and go, and some will spend time in 'innactive positions'...until the power changes, as it always has...And life goes on, once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianpants69 Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Being so wise and all knowing I don't suppose you can concieve of a situation in which you don't know that your being done-over by those in you thought where there to look after your interests. Whats the legal age to leave school in Thailand around the 12/13 mark isn't it? I await further education oh Ajarn Taxexile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 thailand is a developing country , it is developing its systems and its democratic process at its own pace.in my opinion it is not doing such a bad job , but granted, it could do better. the west has had 2 centuries to get it right , and life can be just as hard there too. you cannot judge thailand by western standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Yes, it's a constituinal monarchy, similar to the UK. The king is much more important and influential than politicians, but doesn't get involved with politics much. ...in public view. I assure you that there is always a lot going on behind the scenes, even now- likely especially now, I would say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMaiC Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Yes, it's a constituinal monarchy, similar to the UK. The king is much more important and influential than politicians, but doesn't get involved with politics much. ...in public view. I assure you that there is always a lot going on behind the scenes, even now- likely especially now, I would say There's alot going on behind the scenes in every country The Question is Is it good for the People or the People in Charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 (edited) topics and opinions concerning the royal family can not be discussed on the forum. /admin Edited October 17, 2004 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maitembot Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 they received a couple of kettle to breed on loan to return in 20 years time My kettle keeps disappearing...How can I breed them so there will always be one around? Yes, 'cattle', I know... On a serious note, take a look at the Queen in the south, long after she was due to leave, and providing the real kind of support to people that, if expanded by the miltary, would be a sure path to peace, in my view. Unfortunately, people don't always follow the King's always-good advice...Look at his birthday messages the last three years, particularly to Thaksin, to see what I mean. Thaksin didn't even have the good grace, as every other PM before him has shown, to publically acknowledge the King's advice and pledge his support... Thaksin is just too hua keng to be a good PM, in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulrahman Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Didn't expect so many radical responses;LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT,expect this answer from an U.S.A. citizen,but Idid never want to live in the U.S.A,I'm living in Thailand,with the pros and contras,and I like it hier,most of the time. Agree,the English Immigration is worse as the Thai,this doesn' mean Thai Immigration is good! The Thai military is not so much in the spotlight as some years ago(not many),but VERY influential all the same;Thailand IS a developing cuontry,but try to tell it to the Thais;some Farangs exploit the Thai law(and many are exploited). I respect this country as I respect my own country,and love it perhaps more,think this should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizz Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 thailand is a developing country , it is developing its systems and its democratic process at its own pace.in my opinion it is not doing such a bad job , but granted, it could do better.the west has had 2 centuries to get it right , and life can be just as hard there too. you cannot judge thailand by western standards. Thais like to compare their political system with Bangkok's horrendous traffic jams: After so much suffering, still no solution in sight." http://www.google.ie/search?q=cache:YKIhyE...democracy&hl=en Makes interesting reading. http://www.kpi.ac.th/download/Measuring%20...cratization.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Thailand is a democracy,right?(I know,Toxin doesn't agree) Wrong Thailand is a Monarchy, True?? A monarchy.... but with a democratically elected government... totster A monarchy...with a democratically elected government military style. Namely,most of the leaders are from the military background and still have power and influence. That is barely the case these days. The military influence waned from mid 1992 after those excesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvietnam2001 Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 with a democratically elected government military style. The People do vote for these Politicians Right?? If "voting" meant anything or could really change anything, voting would be made illegal. Mr Vietnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Thailand is a democracy,right?(I know,Toxin doesn't agree) Wrong Thailand is a Monarchy, True?? A monarchy.... but with a democratically elected government... totster A monarchy...with a democratically elected government military style. Namely,most of the leaders are from the military background and still have power and influence. That is barely the case these days. The military influence waned from mid 1992 after those excesses. I'm trying to think of specific ways I've seen it wain...Other than the perpetrators themselves being mostly shunned by society until their deaths, what else is different from pre- (General) Chatchai, when (General) Prem was PM ? I really can't think of any lasting (so far) change in influence of the military that has occured since 1992...Would appreciate being educated more...If it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 General Chavalit is the one main example of a degree of military influence since that time, and Chavalit was none too successful or too influential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phormio Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 topics and opinions concerning the royal family can not be discussed on the forum./admin guess the server's located in the Kingdom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phormio Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Thailand is a democracy,right?(I know,Toxin doesn't agree) Wrong Thailand is a Monarchy, True?? A monarchy.... but with a democratically elected government... totster A monarchy...with a democratically elected government military style. Namely,most of the leaders are from the military background and still have power and influence. That is barely the case these days. The military influence waned from mid 1992 after those excesses. I'm trying to think of specific ways I've seen it wain...Other than the perpetrators themselves being mostly shunned by society until their deaths, what else is different from pre- (General) Chatchai, when (General) Prem was PM ? I really can't think of any lasting (so far) change in influence of the military that has occured since 1992...Would appreciate being educated more...If it's true. My knowledge is quite possibly out of date, but seems that one of the extraordinary things about Thailand is the very successful accomodation between the racial Thais and the racial Chinese. The poor(as in moneyless) Thais come up through the ranks to success in the military and marry into/otherwise accomodate with the Chinese business/money interests. Keeps the peace pretty well, though the mostly poor Thais are screwed. is this not essentially the case at this point in time? Vast improvement over anybody else in the neighborhood - look at indonesia, malaysia, cambodia, vietnam... etc. God Bless the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h5n1 Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 In the end everyone is here for the sex. No one likes to admit it, but that is the truth. Me, I'm lucky if I can afford a date twice a week. Ilove the food and the simplicity of my life and that is why I'm here. When they stop issuing me visas I'll go elsewhere and be just as content. Most persons lifestyle that post to this board is anything but 'local'. Most can't speak a lick of Thai (although some have been here for years). And finally, while most falang may enjoy thai food now and then, most do not eat it on a regular basis. for instance each night I am in the market it is the rarest occassion I see a foreigner and usually with Thaichick in tow. So, I have to laugh about this 'take it or leave it' attitude. Mostlive anything but a Thai life and this includes huge sums of money to lift them above the poverty, provide access to fancy visas and visa runs, luxury foods and pretty play toys. Love it or leave it, hmmmm seems given the opportunity the Thai's leave it. For USA, for OZ to work and build a new life. Even Europe often to marry. The country is hugely broken and this this attitude is a real loser. Would you say the same for the govt of Myanmar or Saudi Arabia? Do not the foreigners have many of the same issues as the local folk? I don't think I've read anyone asking for special exception to the law - only that it is applied correctly and that it is made to be clearly understood. In USA supreme court has routinely found that -arbitrary and capricios is not proper application of common law. I think 99.9% of Thai's would agree. In BKK post just these last days it is found that Taksin has had the court in his pocket (what a surprise). Perhaps someone could explain how this is good for the Thai people and why they should not complain? The take it or leave it attitude is childish, spoiled and gluttonous. I would guarantee it comes primarily from the well heeled and those that lack much compassion for much of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 topics and opinions concerning the royal family can not be discussed on the forum./admin guess the server's located in the Kingdom... Do a Google and see what Les Majeste means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 General Chavalit is the one main example of a degree of military influence since that time, and Chavalit was none too successful or too influential. Now that I completely disagree with. Maybe you are only looking at the surface.... ( I wish you would give more than one sentence responses to better illustrate and justify your assertions) Anyway, here is a brief history of Chavalit (who did not support the military coup of 1992, and in fact, was head of the Opposition), since he was Army Chief. Prior to that, he worked his way up through the ranks normally.. 1987 - Mar 1990 : Commander-In-Chief, RTA and Acting Supreme Commander 30 Mar - 21 June 1990 : Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence 15 May - 12 Sep 1992 : Opposition Leader 29 Sep 1992 - 11 Dec 1994 : Minister of Interior 23 Sep 1993 - 7 Jan 1994 : Minister of Labour and Social Welfare 14 Jul - 25 Oct 1994 : Deputy Prime Minister 17 Jul 1995 - 25 Nov 1996 : Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence 25 November 1996 - 6 November 1997 Prime Minister Effective PM? No way! Highly successful and influential? Of course! Since that time, he has shifted gears a few times, but I've seen no example of any waining influence, even at 72.... As I've said before, lots going on just below the surface, that might not be readily apparent to the casual reader. But, just the fact that he bounces back from everything (even with foot-in-mouth disease!), should attest to the fact that he has many powerful friends, which by right of nature here, makes him very successful and very influential And, lets not forget his success and influence in Burma Anyway, I'm still interested in learning about the waining influence of the military, but maybe using a better example- with some point illustration, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood13 Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Do a Google and see what Les Majeste means. And after you've done that, search for lesE majeste -redwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 topics and opinions concerning the royal family can not be discussed on the forum./admin guess the server's located in the Kingdom... Do a Google and see what Les Majeste means. I have never heard of, nor seen, any example of that being even the slightest justification for censorship of that topic here. And, no, the server is not in Thailand, but that doesn't lessen responsibility for breaking the laws.. There is LOTS of reasonable discussion concerning the King and the rest of the Royal Family in Thailand, Check Pantip.com boards some time... The Mods there do their jobs of keeping it legal- and their server is in Thailand.. So, what's with all this seemingly unjustified paranoia here, George? I feel that if there's to be censorship in this publically accessed forum, the managers who choose to censor topics should have some real justification or even an indication that censoring is neccessary- and should freely communicate that to the people who support this website. Sometimes I feel the management here is holding their cards too close to their chests, and being virtually non-responsive much of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 My knowledge is quite possibly out of date, but seems that one of the extraordinary things about Thailand is the very successful accomodation between the racial Thais and the racial Chinese. The poor(as in moneyless) Thais come up through the ranks to success in the military and marry into/otherwise accomodate with the Chinese business/money interests. Keeps the peace pretty well, though the mostly poor Thais are screwed.is this not essentially the case at this point in time? Vast improvement over anybody else in the neighborhood - look at indonesia, malaysia, cambodia, vietnam... etc. God Bless the King. Though I generally agree with your sentiments, I hope you're not suggesting there's a lack of Thais of Chinese-origin in the miltary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 My knowledge is quite possibly out of date, but seems that one of the extraordinary things about Thailand is the very successful accomodation between the racial Thais and the racial Chinese. The poor(as in moneyless) Thais come up through the ranks to success in the military and marry into/otherwise accomodate with the Chinese business/money interests. Keeps the peace pretty well, though the mostly poor Thais are screwed.is this not essentially the case at this point in time? Vast improvement over anybody else in the neighborhood - look at indonesia, malaysia, cambodia, vietnam... etc. God Bless the King. Though I generally agree with your sentiments, I hope you're not suggesting there's a lack of Thais of Chinese-origin in the miltary. Generally - up until about 20 - 25 years ago - the Military and Police were the preserve of ethnic Thais; to a very large extent the Thai / Chinese were simply not interested in careers in those services and all male children were inculcated into the family business ethos. After the Social and Political upheavals of the 70’s the Thai / Chinese quickly realised that their business stability and prosperity could best be maintained and expanded by establishing a firm foothold in the Armed Forces of Thailand – and at that time they began introducing second or third sons, cousins etc., into those previously shunned careers, while first sons, or those seen to be particularly business orientated were kept within the family sphere of business. In Thailand at the moment we are experiencing the first results of this long term planning, with Taksin as PM and close relatives being in a position to be advanced – via some degree of his patronage - to high and influential Posts in the Armed Forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 topics and opinions concerning the royal family can not be discussed on the forum./admin guess the server's located in the Kingdom... Do a Google and see what Les Majeste means. I have never heard of, nor seen, any example of that being even the slightest justification for censorship of that topic here. And, no, the server is not in Thailand, but that doesn't lessen responsibility for breaking the laws.. There is LOTS of reasonable discussion concerning the King and the rest of the Royal Family in Thailand, Check Pantip.com boards some time... The Mods there do their jobs of keeping it legal- and their server is in Thailand.. So, what's with all this seemingly unjustified paranoia here, George? I feel that if there's to be censorship in this publically accessed forum, the managers who choose to censor topics should have some real justification or even an indication that censoring is neccessary- and should freely communicate that to the people who support this website. Sometimes I feel the management here is holding their cards too close to their chests, and being virtually non-responsive much of the time. Well discussion here pertaining to the Thai Royal family are O U T Go back to Ajarn ...isn't that a term a tad beyond your station. You are a two bit teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 In the end everyone is here for the sex. No one likes to admit it, but that is the truth.how do you know and how can you be so sure everyone is here for the sex.?Me, I'm lucky if I can afford a date twice a week. Ilove the food and the and that is why I'm here. When they stop issuing me visas I'll go elsewhere and be just as content. now we know where you are coming from simplicity of my lifeshouldn't that read "simplicity of my brain"Most persons lifestyle that post to this board is anything but 'local'. Most can't speak a lick of Thai (although some have been here for years). again ,how the h3ll do you know? And finally, while most falang may enjoy thai food now and then, most do not eat it on a regular basis.what on earth does ones dietary habits have anything to do with this ?for instance each night I am in the market it is the rarest occassion I see a foreigner and usually with Thaichick in tow. So, I have to laugh about this 'take it or leave it' attitude. Mostlive anything but a Thai life and this includes huge sums of money to lift them above the poverty, provide access to fancy visas and visa runs, luxury foods and pretty play toys. what is a fancy visa,a fancy visa run and a pretty play toy ? no falang can ever live a thai life due to the very nature of not being thai , even a penniless hicksville harry , a bahn-nork bumpkin , like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 topics and opinions concerning the royal family can not be discussed on the forum./admin guess the server's located in the Kingdom... Do a Google and see what Les Majeste means. I have never heard of, nor seen, any example of that being even the slightest justification for censorship of that topic here. And, no, the server is not in Thailand, but that doesn't lessen responsibility for breaking the laws.. There is LOTS of reasonable discussion concerning the King and the rest of the Royal Family in Thailand, Check Pantip.com boards some time... The Mods there do their jobs of keeping it legal- and their server is in Thailand.. So, what's with all this seemingly unjustified paranoia here, George? I feel that if there's to be censorship in this publically accessed forum, the managers who choose to censor topics should have some real justification or even an indication that censoring is neccessary- and should freely communicate that to the people who support this website. Sometimes I feel the management here is holding their cards too close to their chests, and being virtually non-responsive much of the time. Well discussion here pertaining to the Thai Royal family are O U T Go back to Ajarn ...isn't that a term a tad beyond your station. You are a two bit teacher. Why is your ego soo ###### fragile? I made a serious and reasonable post, asking serious and reasonable questions, and you reply with nothing but a low-class personal insult....Typical of many of your responses, but I always give someone the benefit, and hope that reason will beget reason. Obviously, with you, that seems a waste of energy on my part. Mai Pen Rai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Do a Google and see what Les Majeste means. And after you've done that, search for lesE majeste -redwood A typo Redwood. One million apologies. I was pissed with the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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