Take Baby Out Of The Country

[jstumbo]

I know someone that has a baby with his TGF, who has now flown the coop and left him with the child. He wants to go back to his home country, and take the baby with him. If he has a passport for the child from his country, can he just make a reservation and leave? Or will he need some type of permission from the absent mother to be able to take the child out of the country?

Can the child leave using the foreign passport, since I assume the mother would have to be around to get a Thai passport?

[RY12]

If no one here ends up knowing the answer, maybe he could just call the airline, they sometimes know. Does the foreign passport indicate in anyway the mother is from Thailand?

Edited May 4, 2008 by RY12

[jstumbo]

No, but it will not have an entry stamp. So he would have some explaining to do at immigration.

I imagine if two non Thai people have a child while in Thailand, they can get a foreign passport for the child, but I am not sure how they handle it at the exit immigration. Do they have to go to an immigration office first with documents to get something stamped in the child's new passport? Do they just need to show a birth certificate? And what would happen if it was a birth certificate where one of the parties was a Thai national?

[ozzydom]

I would imagine that the father would have to apply to a court and be granted sole custody before he could legally take the child from the country.

[RY12]

Wouldn't his Embassy know the answer to these questions? or is it one of those cases where "officially" he can't take the baby out but in reality no one checks, and he doesn't want to reveal himself in case they remember his call?

[samran]

No, but it will not have an entry stamp. So he would have some explaining to do at immigration.

I imagine if two non Thai people have a child while in Thailand, they can get a foreign passport for the child, but I am not sure how they handle it at the exit immigration. Do they have to go to an immigration office first with documents to get something stamped in the child's new passport? Do they just need to show a birth certificate? And what would happen if it was a birth certificate where one of the parties was a Thai national?

foreign children are born everyday in Thailand. They are issued birth certificates which clearly state their place of birth. The father will likely need this birth certificate if he is going to get a passport issued by the relevant embassy.

This place of birth is then put into the childs foreign passports. Upon exit, it is pretty clear to immigration that the child did not 'enter' thailand as it was born here. Exit stamps are issued without fuss in these situations.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

With only one parent accompanying ?

[samran]

With only one parent accompanying ?

getting sole custody is a seperate issue, of course. I was just answering jstumbo's claim that there would be 'explaining' to do at immigration for the baby.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I have friends ( both oz diggers) with a blue eyed blonde daughter born in BKK and for several years they were hassled on departure by Immigration on departure BKK ( assuming that a Thai kid was being purloined with both parents present and duly checked in. )

[samran]

I have friends ( both oz diggers) with a blue eyed blonde daughter born in BKK and for several years they were hassled on departure by Immigration on departure BKK ( assuming that a Thai kid was being purloined with both parents present and duly checked in. )

really?

It has been a baby boom of late in my circle here, and never a problem. It pays though (I suspect) to travel with the original birth certificate which would be in Thai of the immigration folk to get their rocks off on!

[jstumbo]

I have friends ( both oz diggers) with a blue eyed blonde daughter born in BKK and for several years they were hassled on departure by Immigration on departure BKK ( assuming that a Thai kid was being purloined with both parents present and duly checked in. )

really?

It has been a baby boom of late in my circle here, and never a problem. It pays though (I suspect) to travel with the original birth certificate which would be in Thai of the immigration folk to get their rocks off on!

And I would imagine they would have fewer problems when they have a passport for the child showing they came into the country.

I have suggested that he contact his embassy to ask them about it and maybe consult a lawyer to see what they say. Not sure if a lawyer would be able to tell him exactly what would be required to take the child out of Thailand though. Maybe if he finds the right one, but I imagine that other lawyers may tell him different things.

[Norsedad]

Having done this myself, here are the facts:

1) Both parents need to physically show up and sign for the child's Thai passport. So, if he does not have a Thai passport for the child, the child needs to leave Thailand on a foreign passport.

2) In order to leave Thailand without an entry stamp in the foreign passport, the father needs to have the Thai birth certificate in ORIGINAL when passing immigration, as they will ask to see this.

3) The airlines will not ask any questions.

4) If the mother suspects the father may try to take their child out of Thailand, she may file a motion with the court to have the child prevented from exiting the country. The immigration will then be informed by the court, and the child can not leave the country.

5) Bring a good lawyer to the airport just in case. The cost is THB 5,000 - 10,000.

6) Get a round-trip ticket in order to avoid any hassles and difficult questions at the airport.

7) It is the father's legal right according to Thai law to bring the child out of the country, unless the mother's objection has been supported by a court ruling.

8) Do not try to get legal custody of the child before taking the child out of the country. This takes about one year.

9) The only way for the mother to get the child back to Thailand is to use the Hague convention, and this will require her to get a good international lawyer, costing several hundred thousand Baht.

Good luck.

[cfrmatt]

I have friends ( both oz diggers) with a blue eyed blonde daughter born in BKK and for several years they were hassled on departure by Immigration on departure BKK ( assuming that a Thai kid was being purloined with both parents present and duly checked in. )

really?

It has been a baby boom of late in my circle here, and never a problem. It pays though (I suspect) to travel with the original birth certificate which would be in Thai of the immigration folk to get their rocks off on!

And I would imagine they would have fewer problems when they have a passport for the child showing they came into the country.

I have suggested that he contact his embassy to ask them about it and maybe consult a lawyer to see what they say. Not sure if a lawyer would be able to tell him exactly what would be required to take the child out of Thailand though. Maybe if he finds the right one, but I imagine that other lawyers may tell him different things.

If the child was born in Thailand but has a British passport, all you need to take to the airport is the childs passport and the childs Thai birth certiicate..I checked this myself with the Thai immigration office

[fongvin]

I have travelled several times from Thailand to United Kingdom with my Son who was born in Thailand, and always carried his personal documents just in case ......

Never had any problems departing Thailand where he exited and entered on his Thai passport, BUT their was one occassion when entering United Kingdom with his British passport one immigration officer looked at his passport because she said he looked nothing (colour) like me. I replied yes he is my son and I have all his personal documents with me in person as proof. The IO decided not to pursue the matter further ....

[bkk_mike]

In Thailand, the check on the other party giving permission to leave is generally at the passport approval stage, or at the visa application stage (for the country you're flying to).

I'm not saying immigration won't ask where the mother is, but that if the child already has the passport, and you don't need a visa for the country you're travelling to, that you are unlikely to have problems. Although how easy that will be probably depends a bit on how much the kid looks like you.

(If my wife and I travel to the UK at different times, because it's cheaper to fly midweek, but not losing workdays means I fly at weekends, it's quite common that 2 kids travel with my wife, and the 3rd with me, or vice-versa.)

edit: Admittedly, we never had the issue of trying to leave with a foreign passport without the entry stamp.

Edited May 4, 2008 by bkk_mike

[tommyboy]

Last year I took my 9 month old daughter from Thailand to Los Angeles without her mother and did not have a problem at all with Thai Immigration, I had an American passport which was issued in bangkok, her Thai Birth Certificate, and Consular Report Of Birth Abroad (issued from My embassy) just in case.

The babies Mother did not know of my departure and was not informed. As long as you have all the documents, A VALID passport from your country, The Immigration can hassle you a bit, but unless the mother has a court or police order to prevent you from leaving with the child there really is nothing they can do to prevent you from leaving.

I was hassled for 1 hour in my own country (USA) by The U.S. Immigration service about where her mother was Etc. Etc. but that was more of a formality and all my supporting documetation was in order. So my advise to you is : do it, be well prepared and you may have a few minor obstacles, but you will be fine. TC

[jstumbo]

Thank you for all the input. I will forward this information to him. I am sure he will be glad to hear it.

[bigbri73]

i did not know that any nation would issue a passport to a child who was born in thailand to a thai mother without the child having a thai passport already, certainly the british embassy do not, i know that for a fact.

[fongvin]

i did not know that any nation would issue a passport to a child who was born in thailand to a thai mother without the child having a thai passport already, certainly the british embassy do not, i know that for a fact.

Fact

I have four children born in Thailand, their mother is Thai and I am British. The British Embassy in Bangkok on each applicant issued a British Passport without requesting any Thai passports, they only wanted to see the children's birth certificates, and our marriage certificates, a very simple process .............

[samran]

i did not know that any nation would issue a passport to a child who was born in thailand to a thai mother without the child having a thai passport already, certainly the british embassy do not, i know that for a fact.

not true. My daughters first passport was her Australian passport. Thai passport followed after that.

Perhaps you are confusing thai passport with thai birth certificate?

[marshbags]

You may find it is difficult to take them back to the U.K. without a certified letter allowing you permission to do so.

On entering the U.K. of course.

There are, for obvious reasons certain restrictions / checks and balances that could surface at immigration passport control on entering the country.

O.K. there is no mention of circumstances being that the father may rethink his circumstances and wish to reunite with the mother somewhere down the road, but if so an even more important and a probable bigger problem could occur, should you wish to take the child back out again ??????

Depending on what sort of officer is on duty should you wish to leave unless you are blessed with good luck, make sure you have proof on your parental rights, their mothers whereabouts and the fact that she has given you authority to travel alone with them.

Please make sure what ever you do that you have the proper paper work to back up your particular circumstances and authority / permisssion from their mother, be it entering or leaving the U.K.

If not it could be a nightmare not only for you, but more importantly, your children.

Especially if you manage to get one of the new politically correct officers.

If it,s legal then you should be able to provide documentation to confirm your rights, to include a personal certified letter of permission from the mother, in addition to the already mentioned passport, birth certificate, ect. ect.

If it,s not then sadly they shouldn,t be even thinking about it.

Good luck and if the motives are genuine, may they get what,s in their best interests.

marshbags

Edited May 5, 2008 by marshbags

[BigA]

I know someone that has a baby with his TGF, who has now flown the coop and left him with the child. He wants to go back to his home country, and take the baby with him. If he has a passport for the child from his country, can he just make a reservation and leave? Or will he need some type of permission from the absent mother to be able to take the child out of the country?

Can the child leave using the foreign passport, since I assume the mother would have to be around to get a Thai passport?

This happened to me, with my at the time 1- 1/2 year old, with just us two travelling and I needed the permission slip from the Thai mother certified by the Amphur, in order to get my child out of the country.

Had a newly issued foreign passport travelled on for the first time , Thai Birth Cert, record of Birth abroad, translations, tried to thin of everything, paperwork was reviewed by the Thai immigration authorities, but I made it through. No problems on the other end.

I am pretty sure you will need the permission slip the first time.

[CWMcMurray]

i did not know that any nation would issue a passport to a child who was born in thailand to a thai mother without the child having a thai passport already, certainly the british embassy do not, i know that for a fact.

My daughter has already received her US passport and we plan to get her Thai Passport later this summer.

[bigbri73]

i did not know that any nation would issue a passport to a child who was born in thailand to a thai mother without the child having a thai passport already, certainly the british embassy do not, i know that for a fact.

Fact

I have four children born in Thailand, their mother is Thai and I am British. The British Embassy in Bangkok on each applicant issued a British Passport without requesting any Thai passports, they only wanted to see the children's birth certificates, and our marriage certificates, a very simple process .............

the embassy wanted to see my daughters thai passport, i did not have one, so i had to go and get it.

[thaigene2]

You're right to be wary. You could try to get out with the foreign passport. But as others have indicated the passport will indicate Bangkok as place of birth. Welcome to the trap.

[goingaroundagain]

If you actually have a Thai passport for your child they ask to see it but if you do not have one they do not require you to obtain one. That is perfectly clear on their website.

[samran]

You're right to be wary. You could try to get out with the foreign passport. But as others have indicated the passport will indicate Bangkok as place of birth. Welcome to the trap.

how is it a trap?