How Do You Feel When Someone Criticises Your Country?

[PeaceBlondie]

.......

Nevertheless, the real test of loyalties to the old country is, if Thailand was to go to war with your home country, who would you fight for? In any sport, Thailand Vs Home country, who do you support? If the Thai government offered a Thai passport on condition that the home country citizenship is completely given up, would you accept it?

Like to see some replies to this, just out of interest.

Who said you have to fight or kill for your country? Just the government and blind patriots, including old men like my father-in-law whose only trip out of his native country was to help kill Germans. It didn't even broaden his appreciation for France or the French.

[garro]

In regards to distortedlink's questions. If a Thai passport offered the same benefits as my own passport I would have no qualms about given it up. In regards to sport teams, just because somebody is wearing the colours of the country I was born doesn't mean that they are anything to do with me. Of course if it was the world cup, I would support them for a bit of fun, but I wouldn't take it too seriously. I am not very nationalistic at all. I don't see the benefits in it.

[Naam]

How Do You Feel When Someone Criticises Your Country?

i couldn't care less

[slapout]

If people want to take a run at polticians, leaders, etc of any country I have no problem, but to badmouth a country, reminds me of a old addage, dont mess with my truck, dog, or wife/ gf. None of the former including the country they come from, are perfect, but through various circumstances, they are ours, thus I tend to be protective of them.

[jumnien]

When people criticize my chosen country, Thailand, it seems a bit disrespectful. When people criticize my country of origin in which I obviously had no choice, the US, it seems irrelevant.

[Thai at Heart]

It seems to hit at the heart when someone criticises our home country.

Personally I have not lived in the country I grew up in for over ten years. If someone criticises it, I might agree at first but after a while I have no choice but to defend it.

I know many Thai/Western couples were this is a problem. Could be either way round, but if we voice criticism of a person's country it seems certain to cause an emotional reaction (even if they actually agree with the criticism).

So how should we behave in a cross-cultural relationship? Is it best to keep quiet when we feel annoyed by something in our partner's country? Do we pretend their country is wonderful? Or maybe that's what forums like TV are for – give people an outlet for their frustration so they can keep it out of their relationship.

How do you feel when someone launches into criticism of your home country?

I don't give a monkeys about it. When a Thai person has a go about the UK, although this is very rare, I actually encourage them. It may encourage them to wonder what is wrong in Thailand and what they can do to improve it.

I have visited the UK many times with my wife and she sees that there are good and bad sides to everywhere. We lived in mediterranean Europe for a while and would probably have to say we didn't like it all. The principle reason was that it was basically a badly run, corrupt, dirty country, but the people were so proud of it, not even they could bring themselves to recognise criticism.

Misplaced pride in a country only serves to help it stand still.

[ozsamurai]

As an expat in Japan for the past 20yrs, also teaching for a great deal of that time, I was constantly faced with questions about my home country, Australia. I would defend it all the time. I went through the usual 'Japan bashing' stage, being that things were different from home is all. Things always seemed to be easier at home, but I pushed on through for many years there. Eventually when considering my mortality I decided to make the break from the expat life and head 'home'. A year there and I was more miserable than ever, the place in my mind that I had been defending for so long no longer exists. Its true for me, YOU CANT GO HOME. So here I am in LOS, perhaps a permanent ex-pat, I feel as if I have lost my country, so defending it now is ridiculous. Thai GF asks about the odd thing here and there, and I find myself going over the same stories I told to my students in class years ago, then stop. Even my brother has lost faith with Oz and moved of to the Philippines for the easier life. 9 times out of 10 when someone asks where I'm from I say Japan! I think those who get defensive over their 'turf' are just re-hashing their loyalty drummed into them at school, half of the never really looked at their native land with open eyes as we do to Thailand. Big mistake!!

[wolfmanjack]

I was born in London, England considered myself a true Londoner and years ago, there was no other place I wanted to be. But during the mid 1970s the London which I grew up in, disappeared and so did much of the rest of England, changed beyond all recognition.

For me, England has become a complete dump and even though I am a true patriot, I prefer to be patriotic from afar. I suppose if a foreigner was to slag off certain things about my country to me, I would get wound up, especially if it involved the Queen. Gould bless sa.

Nevertheless, the real test of loyalties to the old country is, if Thailand was to go to war with your home country, who would you fight for? No doubt about it. If the USA went to war with thailand i would not have time to sign up for either side since it would be over before it started.

In any sport, Thailand Vs Home country, who do you support? I can't answer that since it would depend on the sport. Most of the sports i watch Thailand does not participate. American football and Bull riding are two examples. As far as boxing is concerned i would probably root for the Thai since i do not like the way the boxing scene has turned out in the USA.

If the Thai government offered a Thai passport on condition that the home country citizenship is completely given up, would you accept it? No. An American passport allows me to jump on the plane without a visa to too many countries that a thai passport does not.

Like to see some replies to this, just out of interest.

Besides why can't i Like both the USA and Thailand but dislike the government policies of both ?

[Ulysses G.]

.......

Nevertheless, the real test of loyalties to the old country is, if Thailand was to go to war with your home country, who would you fight for? In any sport, Thailand Vs Home country, who do you support? If the Thai government offered a Thai passport on condition that the home country citizenship is completely given up, would you accept it?

Like to see some replies to this, just out of interest.

Who said you have to fight or kill for your country? Just the government and blind patriots, including old men like my father-in-law whose only trip out of his native country was to help kill Germans. It didn't even broaden his appreciation for France or the French.

That sounds fine, but the reality is that someone has to do it - that or go through life with a boot on your neck.

[traveller5000]

Thai people are so brainwashed.

Make any slightly critical comment about their country and they will turn from nice to cold/agressive/unfriendly in a heartbeat. The validity of the comment is not even considered.

[Jefferson]

Strange posts.

I can't even relate to the concept of 'my country'... That was ages ago, I have no feelings towards it, good or bad. I feel absolutely nothing at either criticism or praise of the place. It has no meaning other than any other country. My only interaction with the place is when I need a new passport.

[Who, me ?]

makes me feel even better baout the fact that I left !

Seriously, if the critic is fair, I tend to agree. If not, I simply don't care

[toptuan]

How Do You Feel When Someone Criticises Your Country?

i couldn't care less

Spoken like a true impenetrable Vulcan (or Rommel, or Martian, or...whatever).

[toptuan]

How do I feel? It depends on the relationship.

Early in a relationship (whether it's headed for an acquaintance, friend or lover) the Thais (and the majority of Europeans I know) seem to freely, callously, and openly criticize my country without regard to my opinions or feelings. Most are not interested in my rebuttals anyway. It's almost never a fair give-and-take conversation.

So, I usually remain silent, realizing that 75% of their drivel comes from ignorance of having never lived there, visited there, nor having significant contact with my countrymen up until now (gosh maybe it's ME that sets 'em off?? .) With most of them, my silence is noted and they back off. There are a few ignorant ones who continue, just to hear themselves talk (or they "protesteth too much" for some deeper psychologically twisted reason.)

My feeling? Pity and patience.

However, as the relationship deepens, and they realize I'm not going to fight back, they start to open up more and tell me what they really admire about my country and what's wrong with theirs. The conversation (and now it's two-way) begins to revolve around the deeper values in the respective cultures. Finally, as human beings, we realize that we have much more in common than differences. That's what's important to me anyway.

My feeling? Satisfaction that I waited. Pity turns to mutual respect. And the relationship deepens further.

Edited May 9, 2008 by toptuan

[toptuan]

....I can't even relate to the concept of 'my country'... That was ages ago, I have no feelings towards it, good or bad. I feel absolutely nothing at either criticism or praise of the place. It has no meaning other than any other country....

"Sir, Thomas Jefferson was my close friend...and you're no Thomas Jefferson."

Edited May 9, 2008 by toptuan

[grantbkk]

This is a great topic for discussion but there are no simple answers. After 53 years in the United States of America I had been taught that the American way was the correct way and I was part of the most powerful country in the world. I worked in government service for 34 years and didn’t give much thought to the rest of the world until I moved to Thailand in 2003. Believe me when I say I became aware of different views very quickly and learned that perhaps there were alternate views at work in the world and the American way was not the only way.

First I discovered that not everyone was enamored with the US. People I met were constantly complaining about US policy and arrogance associated with being the world’s police force. I learned a lot from these people and have changed my perspective regarding my country and pay more attention to what is really going on in the world. Additionally, over the years, with the approval of my President sinking to 28% in the USA, I find it hard to rationally defend US policy. President Nixon had a much higher approval rating at the height of the Watergate scandal.

Sometimes I have to come to the defense of my country when detractors go too far with the constant complaining and celebration of failures in the US. I don’t understand why the topic of conversation in any bar turns into a rant on American politics or an attack on the various presidential candidates. Usually I’m the only American and these British and Australians don’t even vote in their own countries let alone in the US. Some are here avoiding some transgression that occurred in their home country and conveniently are avoiding discussions with their own government’s representatives. I’ve seen Germans doing the “trashcan dance” (yes, including the simulated bucktooth face) over the falling US Dollar.

I save my harshest criticism for US citizens living here who have nothing good to say about anything US. They all have conspiracy theories somehow attached to their life’s failures and blame always falls on the US government. They use words like “suck, “hate”, “sick” and worse when describing the US. None of them vote. I guess some cannot because of that pesky felony conviction voided their right to choose their representatives. When I asked these people to show their conviction (no pun) and tear up their US passport they react as if I’ve lost my mind. Funny, the US Internal Revenue Service (tax collector) seems to be the most hated authority behind George W. Bush.

Thai people on the other hand love the US for their own reasons. Almost all want to make the journey to anywhere USA. Have you noticed that they get a faraway dreamy look in their eyes when they talk about it. Most are way more dedicated to the US and its policies than I am.

[ade100]

OP here. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Seems like a lot of folk genuinely don’t care hearing their country being badmouthed. I guess they have broken the emotional bond with that country. Or maybe I, and the people I mix with, are just a bit over-sensitive to criticism :-)

Another theme seems to be knowing when to stay quiet, acting with restraint and diplomacy. I have a lot to learn here :-)

As for my Thai GF, she has nothing but contempt for her government, police force and the corruption in her country. But she gets very upset when I criticise Thailand.

As for distortedlink’s question. I doubt the Thai’s would ever give me a passport, but Singapore may well do at some point. They don’t accept dual nationality so it would be a very tough decision. Without a Singapore passport it would be difficult to retire in the country but could I really ever give up being a citizen of the EU? Very tough decision.

[toptuan]

Nice wrap-up. Time to get our coats and head home for the weekend? Actually, you should be already "there" thanks to today's holiday....

[mrtoad]

I don't mind if it is a valid point, there are many bad things about the UK as well as good things. As long as people are balanced and constructive then no problem with criticism.

I do have difficulty though finding good words to say about the British government and I really couldn't care what people say about it, politicians in my opinion are fair game for taking stick from whoever.

[MidoriApple]

Well, I will listen carefully first and think...

what if it is true, i can't deny and try to reject the truth.

My Thailand as you guys know, is not paradise , no where can be, as well.

what if we are misunderstood, I would correct to be true..without any own comment.

Up to each own decision to think, the listeners are freely to do so.

I will be appreciate if that criticism is fair and innovative..

edit: wrong spelling

Edited May 9, 2008 by MidoriApple

[onzestan]

Depends on who, how and in what context.

If about something that touches me personally I might react.

If not who cares.

[rken]

criticism

I find that if people generalize there criticism it is hard to take. But if you can be specific about one individual and not a whole population other people tend to take it ok. I find that falang in Thailand tend to generalized about Thai's to much. It would make me angry. Its seems to be the thing now to criticis americans. I fined in general americans are very giving people. Such as aid around the world through charities. I don't appreciate the general criticism. If you want to bash Bush thats another story.

[Jefferson]

....I can't even relate to the concept of 'my country'... That was ages ago, I have no feelings towards it, good or bad. I feel absolutely nothing at either criticism or praise of the place. It has no meaning other than any other country....

Sir, Thomas Jefferson was my close friend...and you're no Thomas Jefferson.

Well, like I said it was ages ago..

And chances are you're not a big cement bird-man either.

[toptuan]

....I can't even relate to the concept of 'my country'... That was ages ago, I have no feelings towards it, good or bad. I feel absolutely nothing at either criticism or praise of the place. It has no meaning other than any other country....

Sir, Thomas Jefferson was my close friend...and you're no Thomas Jefferson.

Well, like I said it was ages ago..

And chances are you're not a big cement bird-man either.

I beg your pardon. I'm a Thai god.

Edited May 9, 2008 by toptuan

[Jingthing]

Like another, I welcome specific digs (I hate Bush) but really don't appreciate stupid generalizations, like Americans are all fat and American food is crap.

[uptou]

To be honest i think most thais dont have much knowledge of the uk outside of,its cold,man u,liverpool,& now chelsea,oh & Tony Blair,bless him.I'm not sure Gordon Brown is on the radar yet.

I once tried,& failed,to convince a thai male,musician that Eric Clapton was not american,but actually english.

But if they visited & said the weather was sh!te,the people cold,& too expensive,i'd hardly be aguing.

I'm sometimes abit miffed at why some thais are overly,chest out proud of their (supposedly buddhist) country.Proud of what exactly???

[Jingthing]

I'm sometimes abit miffed at why some thais are overly,chest out proud of their (supposedly buddhist) country.Proud of what exactly???

They have been brainwashed, like any hyper-nationalists of any country. I am still amazed the majority of Americans believe the US has the best health care in the world. Who cares about the facts? Extreme nationalism, like extreme religiosity, is a comfort to the unwashed masses.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[plachon]

Here's what the "Rough Guide to England" recently had to say about England and the English.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080509/tuk-...at-a7ad41d.html

Hardly very flattering, but quite accurate I'd say, especially the bit about our overpriced and under-funded public transport system, which is a national shame, along with our weather and hooligan element. Not sure about the bit about "never being able to figure them out" no matter how long you've lived there, as that accolade surely is more apt in Amazing Thailand, at least when it comes down to predicting Thai politics.

[toptuan]

Extreme nationalism, like extreme religiosity, is a comfort to the unwashed masses.

I've always wondered, now that you bring it up...what makes the masses "unwashed?"

Edited May 9, 2008 by toptuan

[Scott]

I get rather upset with criticism, primarily because it seems to be such a constant if you are an American. That said, I very much enjoying arguing about politics and gov't policies and I don't see this as criticism. It's enlightening to find out other people's thoughts and their country's position on a lot of international issues. It's just such a turn off to hear "You people...."