A 'virgin'

[intumult]

Yes, another topic about lies and deceit over a period of time. I am glad I uncovered this before it was too late. Seems some of these Thai 'ladies' do seem to excel in this. I do put a lot of it down to our not understanding what is being said around us and that we are Farang.

No, she does not and has not worked in a bar, so get that straight here and now

So, a few of you will have read and have responded to my posts about the Thai/Chin lady I have been dating for the last 4 months or so. The one who was due to move into the house with me and whom I have talked about marrying in the future. She has two adopted daughters - adopted since her brother died in an accident - and also whom I was willing to have live with me.

The lady in question has always stated that she is a virgin. I had no real reason to doubt that, going by her attitude and her mannerisms and way of life. Her story of past history since leaving school also seemed very plausible. Moving from one 7/11 shop to the next, one town to the next every so many months working as a manager.

She has stayed over at the house a couple of times, sometimes for a couple of days at a time. Slept in my bed too, with me, obviously. Yet when she went to bed, she wore a bra & Tee-shirt, knickers and shorts. I thought it strange at first until coming to the conclusion that she wore that amount of clothing as a barrier to me getting in 'too close' and endangering her virginity. So, that was acceptable. I was not going to force the lady into anything she was not ready for.

Yeah, sex was talked about. She always told me she would have full sexual intercourse once we were married. A long wait when laid in bed with a lady and me horny as hel_l, but sometimes these things are worth waiting for.

After the first couple of stopovers she let me have 'sex'. Now, her definition of sex is anything above the waist. Shaggy-shaggy is totally different!! Only problem is, I got even hornier playing above the waist. This led to some moments of frustration and me sleeping on the bed I'd bought in preparation for the kids coming to the house as I was so close to attempting something more than above the waist.

Well, she has been in Chiang Mai for a week with her family, caring for a sick, elderly relative. The day she came back was the day she was to move in permanently. That evening, she brought her clothes and some other items, got herself settled in and we went out for a drink. She got a little drunk and the tiredness from the journey from Chiang Mai made the alcohol work more on her system.

We got home, went to bed and she asked for a massage as she ached and was tired. Out came the oil and the massage underway. I could tell she was really enjoying it and getting horny herself. But I resisted, especially as the tight shorts were a physical barrier.

Yet she did not want me to stop there. So, her shorts came off, though she outright refused to let me have full sex.

What I did discover, was a horizontal scar across her abdomen. A bright red weal of a scar. On asking about the scar she told me it was from a motorcyle accident when she was younger. I had no real reason to doubt that either, though it did seem an odd place to have a scar.

Next morning, as she slept, I saw the scar again and it looked strange to me. No other scarring around the area to suggest other accident injuries. No vital organs in that are either. I wondered if it had anything to do with her endometriosis, but then again, she would have said so, surely? Also I have been advised from the Ladies Forum about endometriosis and was fairly sure it was internal, but not 100% sure

Well, she went to her parents home later that day and I was sat at home. She phoned to say her parents were not happy about her being at my place and that she had to sleep at their place from now on until we were married. I concluded she was not happy about what had happened the night before and something in her voice raised my suspicions, especially as I have always had my doubts about her being totally honest with me - but doubts and Thai ladies seem to run hand in hand, all you have to do is read ThaiVisa to know that.

I do not know what it was that prompted me, but I went onto the internet and looked up Caesarian scar. Got some pictures downloaded and checked them against what I saw that night. They were near enough the same to make me 75% sure.

Fate had it that I logged onto MSN messenger too and saw an old lady friend on there. I talked to her about it and she said she was 99% certain it was a C-section scar.

So, I phoned T, arranged to meet and we went to her parents food stall and sat down to eat. I got out my English/Thai talking dictionary, pointed to her scar, asked her if it was a C-scar. She denied it. Definitely a motorcycle accident.

At that point I made sure she understood - with the help of the talking dictionary - the difference between truth and lies. Asked if she would be willing to go to a hospital with an English speaking doctor to confirm or deny it being a C-section scar. She said No problem. I told her we would go the next day. Then she admitted it was a C-section scar.

You have to realise, I had never seen a C-section scar before, so I did not recognise it for what it was when I saw it.

Her reasons for denying her own 2 daughters? For telling me they were her dead brothers and adopted? She thought I would not want to have anything to do with her or the kids if I knew they were hers from a previous marriage !!

Sh*t. 4 months of lies to me and to a Thai friend of mine when she also told him the babies were adopted. Lies that led to other lies that led to me having doubts, but no really serious doubts. Lies about a dead brother and his accident. Lies about her dead brothers wife living in BKK and not wanting the kids as the new man in her life didn't want them. Lies about when the kids called T 'Mere' (mother). Lies also from the parents when sin-sot discussions were taking place about the children. So many lies that have come out since she got a bit drunk, was overtired, wanted that massage and a little more and me discovering that red weal of a scar. 4 whole months of lies!!

He_l, I've been out and bought the furniture for the kids bedroom, beds and such. Made basic preparations for the future because she was always so insecure about me wanting to marry her AND have the kids with us, so buying the furniture and making preparations was my small way of showing her I was sincere.

Then there were the family trips out, days out with the 2 children, buying clothes for them, helping the mother out in small ways. Buying T a watch and a new mobile. None of this cost me a lot financially, but it is the deceit, the lies, all because of her fear I would not have her AND the kids.

Anyone who knows me well enough in real life will know I like kids, enjoy having them around, they bring back a certain 'zest' to life. It would not have bothered me one iota that they were hers and that she is a divorced woman. The previous 2 Thai women I have had relationships with were both divorced and had kids - but they were different women, with attitudes geared only to money, money and more money. T never once asked for money in 4 months and refused it when it was offered. One exception to this was her talking about the kids school fees for the upcoming year that starts on Monday. She was more looking for help towards the fees than me paying them, even though for the eldest the 6 year old it is only 5,000 for 6 months.

Reflecting back now, I can see the influences of others on T herself. The way she would change after seeing these friends or relatives. How her own ideals would also change. I can now envision the talking going on, the new ways of making sure I never saw through the initial deception from when T., my Thai mate and I sat down and talked and she'd said the children were adopted by her.

Strangely enough, I am not bitter, nor am I angry. In fact I feel sad that she felt she has had to resort to this deception to keep me. I could see the look of relief on her face last night when the truth came out.

What I do next depends on what happens this afternoon when we meet up.

I have already told T that our relationship is teetering on the edge. Having made her tell her parents I am aware of the lies and deceit, I am not sure how they will also feel today. Also T knows now that 1 more lie and the whole deal is off. She is surprised I - a Farang - have caught her and them out in this.

I can imagine why some of you might think I am crazy for not ending the relationship there and then.. Well, now I know she has lied and deceived myself and friends and that they know also, I believe it may lead to a more open and honest relationship. Add to that, when we talk today, things will not be the same. I feel the ball will be in my court. Sin-sot? Ah, well, that is now out of the window (though it was going to be more of a gift from me after initial discussions [an earlier post about that] and her moving in anyway). There are a lot of other, small personal points that I now have advantage over too and if she is not happy with my ideas and ideals, I can always say, 'Bye, bye.' this afternoon.

As a footnote for my also not ending it on the spot :-

M - I went out with her for 6 weeks or so, even taking her son fishing and posating a photo on T. visa before finding out she has a husband

N - and her lies and incessant demands for more money, for more this and that that would have broken many ATM machine had I given in, even to the point of her demanding extra when she knew my son & his g/f was having a baby, shouting that N should come before my son. That ended that relationship.

O - Telling me her boyfriend had left her for another woman. She got my number and we went out on a date. The next day her manager told me she has a husband living at home!

P - her demands for money and her little 'Thai lies'.

And none of these are bar girls or ex bar girls. Each has taken a long time to get to know individually.

Ahhh, no wonder I am looking at T from another perspective now she knows I know

[Seizhin]

I've seen 2 Thai primary schoolgirls buying contraception pills.

Dont expect to find virgins in bars.

[Totster]

It seems the norm for C-section in Thailand is to leave a vertical scar..... unless it's a decent doctor

totster

[Chinesegirl]

Why the relationship become so complicated always ? everybody got his own stories...some are bad ..and some are good...Why not to give a truly honest love to the one who you love ....why need creat so many lies.....and everything will be clear at the end ...so it's the way to waste time during thoes lies time...

Virgin...being virgin in her mind is more important than her body....

[dave111223]

Everyone's lied before and then the lie has gotten bigger and bigger as they try to cover it up...

However most people come clean WAY before this point, i would really question the character of a person who would take a lie this far.

And even when directly asked she didn't come clean!

Also seems weird that she said she was a "virgin"; maybe i could understand her initially saying that she doesn't have any kids (to avoid you running in the other direction), but seems odd that she lied to the level of being a virgin.

But you are the only one who can decide if this is a good person caught up in a big lie (with the only intention of not losing you). Or a deceitful person, who lies as a way of life.

Given the facts i'd lean towards a deceitful person...sorry

[Mobi]

Your story brings to mind a story on Fox news the other day.

One of the day time female presenters was being interviewed about her disclosure that she recently discovered that her deceased adoptive mother, was in fact her real mother. The daughter never knew.

The mother became pregnant and was abandoned by the father, and in those days in small town America she would have been disgraced. So she went away, had the baby and put her in an orphange. Later, when she had got back on her feet, she went back to the orphanage and "adopted her". Nobody ever knew except the people at the orphange, and the daughter was never told.

So these things can happen, and lies are told, anywhere in the world where society looks down on single mothers.

I suggest you look to your lady's other attributes before condemning her out of hand.

Good luck

[PrBkkPr]

Make sure that her ex is still not around and that she is still not seeing him due to excuses of the kids,etc..(many Thai ladies still occasionally miss a Thai smelling p....!) lol!

[traveller5000]

haha. she must be really dumb if she thought she could get away with that.

[Maigo6]

Seems some of these Thai 'ladies' do seem to excel in this.

And compared with some of the Farang bullshitters I have met over the years in Thailand. many are rank amateurs.

[dotcom]

I would make dam_n sure this girl is taking the pill.

Agree that C section scars run vertical.

Wonder why the Catholic school girl ruse?

I would cut her loose for being a lying whore.

Teach her a lesson. Maybe drill it first.

[Newbee]

haha. she must be really dumb if she thought she could get away with that.

She must be thinking you are really dumb that she thought she could get away with that...

Sorry

[Maigo6]

I would cut her loose for being a lying whore.

Teach her a lesson. Maybe drill it first.

I bet you're a big hit with women......

[barky]

I'll make this simple. Once the trust is broken it will never be mended properly again. You both will have this at the back of your minds forever, putting on a happy face. But, on various occasions in the future, it will raise it's ugly head again.

Cut your losses and dump her now.

[burman]

You've been warned about this girl since your first post about her here....

No Kissing

...and she's come out with constant lies since then. What happened to her not being able to kiss someone because she was attacked by a dog when she was a child? Seems she has been doing more than just kissing. Her sick relative is no doubt her husband or bf. You are no doubt being reeled in like the big fish you are.

Get out now and save yourself time and money.

O - Telling me her boyfriend had left her for another woman. She got my number and we went out on a date. The next day her manager told me she has a husband living at home!

I assume this is the girl you dated when your fiance was in Chiang Mai?

[kurgen]

Maybe she meant she was a nasal virgin

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

intumult

It is a tough call. My feeling is it would be very hard to trust her again as those were not little lies she was telling. And as noted when you confronted her she continued to lie to you.

If you feel strongly enough towards her to want to stick it out I would suggest you don't even consider marriage for at least two years.

But in thelong run you will probably have a much happier life with someone you could trust.

[Neeranam]

My wife had a vertical c-section at a top hospital in Hua Hin and a horizontal at Bamrungrad.

OP - unbelievable story - where do you met your girlfriends?

[GuestHouse]

Virgin for sure..... Virgin on the ridiculous.

--

Humour aside, the OP's actions and motives, while naive are not at fault - his g/f has asked for respect and he has given respect. And this is where lies are only part of the game.

The g/f has demanded the best behaviour from the OP and then used the advantage his behaviour has given her against him.

This is something to take note of and I doubt very much it will change.

On the basis of what the OP tells us it is clear that he, like the vast majority of people, wants to do the right thing and treat other's with respect.

This 'strength' is taken by the g/f and her family as a weakness.

---

And let's not leave the family out of this - they too have played their part in this charade.

--

My advice to the OP is ditch her and her family and go find someone else.

Don't look for a virgin, look for someone who shares your values of decency and honesty.

[Briggsy]

Intumult

Please tally up how much this venture cost you and let us know.

฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿

TIT and all that, it's the bottom line that counts.

[Doza]

Seriously this sh*t amazes me. You knew her 4 months and was dreaming of marriage? You communicate through a dictionary? She calls 'sex' "something above the waist"?!

Honestly, what sort of a connection do / did you have with this girl? Are you really on the same page? Compatible in your dreams for the future, cultural and social ideals, in tune in and out of the sack, understand each other (I mean really)??? Sometimes it seems to me like so many farangs in Thailand try to force the relationship thing when deep down, honest-to-goodness, they cannot realy understand and connect with these girls and they are usually miles apart in the affection area especially. But still they persist - 'must get married, need me a wife, want to settle down, happily ever after'.

Seriously, is it any wonder the fail rate seems so high???

Find someone you actually really understand, are compatible with, and can effectively communicate on all levels with.

[ralph444]

the thai girl in ? must not Think too highly of op. after reading his story i understand why.

HE WANTS MORE OF SAME SAME WITH SAID GIRL!

[burman]

She calls 'sex' "something above the waist"?!

He calls it "Shaggy-shaggy".

[rixalex]

Virgin for sure..... Virgin on the ridiculous.

--

Humour aside, the OP's actions and motives, while naive are not at fault - his g/f has asked for respect and he has given respect. And this is where lies are only part of the game.

The g/f has demanded the best behaviour from the OP and then used the advantage his behaviour has given her against him.

This is something to take note of and I doubt very much it will change.

On the basis of what the OP tells us it is clear that he, like the vast majority of people, wants to do the right thing and treat other's with respect.

This 'strength' is taken by the g/f and her family as a weakness.

---

And let's not leave the family out of this - they too have played their part in this charade.

--

My advice to the OP is ditch her and her family and go find someone else.

Don't look for a virgin, look for someone who shares your values of decency and honesty.

Excellently put GH.

It's easy to ridicule a guy for getting played, but at the end of the day his only crime is being too kind and trusting - and perhaps a bit naive.

The girl and especially the family who are older and should know better are a disgrace and should be ashamed of themselves.

To the Op i think you have no choice but to cut your losses.

Quite some time ago i read a thread about a guy who had married a bar girl. At the time when he did, he didn't think that the girl's past history would bother him, but as time went by, it started to play on his mind more and more, and he found himself losing respect for her about something he had known all along.

Thinking that you can forgive and forget her for all these lies at the beginning of your life togther is foolish - they'll always be a black cloud over you and you'll always question her integrity.

Put simply, you deserve better mate. Chalk it up to experience and move on.

[plachon]

I'd dump her faster than a six month past it's sell by date peach. Deceit on this scale is not something you can just dismiss and turn over a new leaf. She blew it big time and took you for a sucker.

But that's just me...........

[ThaiAm]

Hope your meeting goes well but even at that realize that there are always going to be clouds in your relationship sky with this lady, never a really sunny day because you will always be left to wonder what is truth and what is cloud.

[Samuian]

it's not about the lie, it's about take'n you for a ride!

Drop her like a hot coal, it won't stop, believe me and you will never ever feel secure!

She's playing you like others a piano!

[lannarebirth]

I know you've been blueballing it for months now and this revelation probably gives you the opportunity to get in there and hit it, on your terms for a while, but take my advice, break it off immediately. If you feel anything for her children give her the things you bought for them and walk away. It's a conspiracy of lies. Get the hel_l away.

[way2muchcoffee]

A single woman with kids isn't marketable in any country, and particularly not in Asia. I can easily imagine how an initial lie could spin quickly out of control. I say, if you really feel there is something to your relationship with this woman, then wind things back. Go slowly, rebuild the trust, and see where things go. I don't buy all this business about dark clouds hanging around forever.

[intumult]

My wife had a vertical c-section at a top hospital in Hua Hin and a horizontal at Bamrungrad.

OP - unbelievable story - where do you met your girlfriends?

In Nakhonsawan!!!

Grrrr.

I meet some weird ones.

[intumult]

Intumult

Please tally up how much this venture cost you and let us know.

฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿

TIT and all that, it's the bottom line that counts.

Costs in hard cash?

beds 8,000

2 wardrobes 3500

mobile phone 3500

watch 500

clothes 2000

toys 1500

nights out xxxx

food larder (mother) 1750

Bedroom unit (mother) free with beds n wardrobes

can't recall anything else though there will be other stuff I cannot think of at moment.