Getting 'bumped Off A Flight' At Bangkok Airport

[libya 115]

Recently, I was travelling from Bangkok on Singapore Airlines. At check in (although I was early and had a fully paid ticket) I was told the aircraft was over-booked. I kept my cool but explained to the check-in clerk that I had booked driver/hotel/ etc. and a delay would cost me financially.

I am happy to say after a few phone calls I was given a boarding pass.

However my question is; to those who know more than me: Where do we stand? What are our rights? I booked with a VISA card. I expect a seat especially if I am early for check-in.

I understand that in European Union countries there is a minimum compensation/hotels and flights.

What about here in Thailand?

[brizzle]

Recently, I was travelling from Bangkok on Singapore Airlines. At check in (although I was early and had a fully paid ticket) I was told the aircraft was over-booked. I kept my cool but explained to the check-in clerk that I had booked driver/hotel/ etc. and a delay would cost me financially.

I am happy to say after a few phone calls I was given a boarding pass.

However my question is; to those who know more than me: Where do we stand? What are our rights? I booked with a VISA card. I expect a seat especially if I am early for check-in.

I understand that in European Union countries there is a minimum compensation/hotels and flights.

What about here in Thailand?

I got bumped once with Gulf Air flying in FC. I flew LHR to Abu Dhabi where I collected my boarding card early in the morning for a flight from Bahrain to Bangkok.(I was making a connection from Abu Dhabi later that evening). On arriving for my GF Air flight from Abu Dhabi to Bahrain they avised me that the flight had been cancelled but I had been rebooked on a Etihad flight to Bahrain just half an hour later. On arrival in Bahrain more than 1.5 hours before my flight to Bkk with boarding pass in my hand I was gracefully told that I would not be boarding after all. I too had prepaid accomodation in Bkk.They offered me $250 USD compensation and 5 * hotel with meals for the night and a flight out the next night. However my readings over the internet from prior years had informed me that more compensation was possible.In the end I got $250,hotel /food, plus flew free the next day and was able to reschedule my unused ticket for a later date.After writing to Gulf Air about the unfortunate incident they also credited my FF account with 6000 air miles. I think it is more down to the airline policy than where you get bumped. Singapore being a 5 * airline should in theory at least give simlar compensation to what I received...but then again??

[Tinkelbell]

The OP story reminds me of the time while waiting to board American Airlines for the flight ( in NY) to Honolulu, Hawaii about ten years ago.

When the gated agent realized the flight was way overbooked, she made announcement on the public speaker. Asking if any passenger on this particular flight is willing to give up the seat for an exchange of free round trip ticket to HI. About six people took up the offer including us.

Why not. Since we were going to HI for a vacation, we could afford to fly one day late, didn't have to be in HI at certain time like this group were going for a big wedding.

It was the best deal for me. A lillte unconvenient liked having to go home and came back the next day to catch the same flight. It was no big deal for people who live in NY. For that we got 2 extra r/t ticket ( it saved us almost $2000, that what we purchaded months earlier ). We felt so good when we used THAT FREE ticket the following year.

[grtaylor]

Reminds me of a story which happened to people I knew at Seeb Airport, Muscat, Oman. They were waiting for a Dubai-Muscat-Nairobi flight, and were summoned to the desk to be told, "Sorry, the pilot has just radioed down to say he won't land just to pick up two people"!!! Too expensive landing fees I guess . . . . They were sent on a flight to Dubai and then a later onward flight.

G

[sweetchariot]

Recently, I was travelling from Bangkok on Singapore Airlines. At check in (although I was early and had a fully paid ticket) I was told the aircraft was over-booked. I kept my cool but explained to the check-in clerk that I had booked driver/hotel/ etc. and a delay would cost me financially.

I am happy to say after a few phone calls I was given a boarding pass.

However my question is; to those who know more than me: Where do we stand? What are our rights? I booked with a VISA card. I expect a seat especially if I am early for check-in.

I understand that in European Union countries there is a minimum compensation/hotels and flights.

What about here in Thailand?

Recently you were flying back from Blighty, recently you were doing so many things. I looked at your last 50 odd posts - most of them were quotes from newspapers.

Maybe they were trying to pee you off due to cutting and pasting too much. Maybe - who knows.

[david96]

How can an airline overbook its seating? If a seat is booked and paid for it should not be sold again. It becomes available if the pax cancels, rebooks or does not turn up at the airport for the flight. How often does this occur?

[grtaylor]

How can an airline overbook its seating? If a seat is booked and paid for it should not be sold again. It becomes available if the pax cancels, rebooks or does not turn up at the airport for the flight. How often does this occur?

Well, I think they used to do it deliberately to allow for an average % of "no-shows".

G

[HarryHacker]

How can an airline overbook its seating? If a seat is booked and paid for it should not be sold again. It becomes available if the pax cancels, rebooks or does not turn up at the airport for the flight. How often does this occur?

Well, I think they used to do it deliberately to allow for an average % of "no-shows".

G

Right, some airlines don't feel the need for you to re confirm your flights these days.

[ovenman]

I understand that in European Union countries there is a minimum compensation/hotels and flights.

What about here in Thailand?

Knowing the way customer service/consumer rights generally work in Thailand, I'd be very surprised to learn that one is entitled to much of anything beyond a seat on another flight. I know that you were flying on Singapore Airlines but I don't think they're all that different than THAI in regards "giving away" anything, and I wouldn't expect TG to compensate me a single satang for any inconvenience.

[ovenman]

Right, some airlines don't feel the need for you to re confirm your flights these days.

Actually, very few airlines request that you reconfirm flights these days.

[ovenman]

How can an airline overbook its seating? If a seat is booked and paid for it should not be sold again. It becomes available if the pax cancels, rebooks or does not turn up at the airport for the flight. How often does this occur?

I dunno how often Asian airlines overbook. I'd have to guess not too often. In fifteen years of flying around Asia I've never heard the "overbooked" announcement one often hears in American airports.

American airlines do overbook and they're upfront about that being a policy. That being the case, in an overbooking situation the airline first looks for volunteers to give up their seat in exchange for compensation. They'll generally find the volunteers they need before they involuntarily bump passengers (they would rather avoid doing that). If one is flexible with their travel plans, one can sometimes score nice compensation on an overbooked flight.

[Farma]

I’ve had it happen twice in Bangkok but a few years ago.

The first was BA a flight to Heathrow. BA staff went along the check in line informing people the flight was overbooked and asking for volunteers to spend an extra night in Bangkok to catch next days flight at the same takeoff time. They were offering $500 + hotels and meals.

The other was Saudia in the days when they flew to Bangkok. They filled the flight with hadj passengers in Manila and were only taking on cargo in Bangkok. It appeared the check in staff were only informed once the flight from Manila had landed. About 70 people were left stranded.

Confusion reigned, very minimal help was offered even to first and business class passengers. They basically left it up to the passengers to visit their airport office to try and arrange an alternative flight or an overnight stay.

[goingaroundagain]

Has never happened to me personally but I've heard about quite generous compensation, top class hotels and even upgrades for the rescheduled trip.

[IMA_FARANG]

How can an airline overbook its seating? If a seat is booked and paid for it should not be sold again. It becomes available if the pax cancels, rebooks or does not turn up at the airport for the flight. How often does this occur?

No airline should double-book seats....but there are reasons why they sometimes do.Frankly, sometimes airlines will deliberately double-book seats (in spite of the fact they will deny they ever do such a thing). It is also posible, on multi-leg flights that seats will be full on the next leg (i.e. BKK/SIN/Jakarta where all seats are full from Singapore to Jakarta even if there are still open sits from BKK to Singapore) Also flights may be canceled/delayed and the passengers for that flight moved to another flight to compensate. That leaves the second flight overbooked.

One thing you should always do, once you have a definate reservation, is to call the airline about 72 hours prior to your departure to reconfirm the reservation. The airline my tell you you don't need to reconfirm, but it won't hurt, and it might mean your reservation becomes more important (with that little blip from the computer saying "passenger reconfirmed").

There is a convention for all international passengers that defines the airlines requirements for compensation when bumped off a flight or have a flight cancelled. The airlines hate it, and won't let you know about it, but you do have rights.

So don't accept their compensation offer unless you feel it is fair. Now, if you are going on a holiday, don't have a particular schedule, and get a free ticket out of the deal....I would accept that.

P.S. I was once bumped up to first class on BKK to Tokyo flight (Japan Airlines) due to no seats available in economy class. It can happen.

Edited May 22, 2008 by IMA_FARANG

[jasreeve17]

The vast majority (if not all) airlines overbook flights as a matter of general practice - increases their profits. A good airline on a good day will compensate you, but some won't (there are industry guidelines in place, I can't remember the body, I once knew but the memory isn't what it once was).

Many moons ago I boarded at Heathrow on my way to a few business meetings in the US (KLM via Amsterdam, last minute arrangement in cattle class). I knew something was up when they wouldn't check my bags all the way through to Atlanta. Alarm bells! I got hold of the manager and asked her to put in writing that I won't be bumped off the flight in Amsterdam cause I had several days of meetings arranged. Fine. But, not fine. Arrived in Amsterdam and was bumped off the flight, as I'd forseen. The next day I flew onwards with NorthWest (they code shared) who duly lost all my bagage (that I'd checked in that day), arrived very late too - I'd missed 2 out of 3 days of meetings. After eighteen months of battling the fukers I got nothing. No comensation for anything. Airlines are a law unto themselves, with BA maybe the very worst.

I did learn never to fly cattle class to meetings - business class passengers get looked after far better. And, no I didn't book the flights a new secretary did; an honest mistake on her part. (Very nice she was too. Useless as a seven sided dice though.)

[tw25rw]

Some airlines also guarantee certain people that they can have a seat, even if the plane is full. If you reach certain levels of some frequent flyer programmes, that's one of the features they offer.

So if you have that status and demand a seat on a flight which happens to be sold out already, someone has to make room.

[chiang mai]

There is a cardboard sign in the terminal at the new airport, propped up against the customer service desk that gives a telephone number to call if a passenger believes they have been bumped or delayed - this appears to be a government sign although the English is poor and the exact purpose of the message is not entirely clear. I spent several minutes trying to decipher its message the other day and concluded this was one of those things that a government department tries to do to show that the country has all the features of larger western countries and to make tourists feel comfortable. I would not however like to put it to the test and try calling the number since I'm certain the illusion would evaporate. Airlines in Thailand seem to rely on the fact that a majority of it's foreign passengers are tourists and that they will not be in country long enough to see out any complaints process so don't expect them to react the same way that many other large international airlines behave.

Edited May 22, 2008 by chiang mai

[pumpuiman]

When you buy an airline ticket you have entered into a contract with the airline you are flying. As with any contract, you have a right to a copy of the rules. With international flights the contract is called "tariff rules."

While some of these conditions are printed on your ticket, many are not. The US Department of Transportation (DOT) states that all flyers must be furnished with this information. Get the rules and learn the ones concerning three air travel concerns: safety, lost and mishandled luggage and bumping compensation. You can get the conditions or rules from ticket agents or an airline’s customer service department.

[libya 115]

UPDATE

EU Regulations state that EURO 600 compensation must be made to passengers 'bumped' off a flight. This only applies to flights and carriers departing from the EU and on any flights operated by European airlines to or from EU airports.

So I was in a situation where I could claim nothing if I had been bumped: (Singapore Air) and (Destination outside EU).

But worth knowing for passengers leaving Thailand for Europe on EU carriers. British Airways, Finnair etc. etc.

[pumpuiman]

From Thai Airways website....

9. Carrier undertakes to use its best efforts to carry the passenger and baggage with reasonable dispatch. Times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Carrier may without notice substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, and may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket in case of necessity. Schedules are subject to change without notice. Carrier assumes no responsibility for making connections.

DENIED BOARDING BY OVERBOOKING

In those countries where Denied Boarding Compensation regulations are in force, carriers operate compensation plans for passengers with confirmed reservations who are denied boarding because of non-availability of seats caused by overbooking. Details of these plans are available at the airlines’ offices.

[briley]

I recall a Thai Visa thread that the Thai government had introduced some basic compensation for being bumped.

But I can't find the information at the moment - any one else remember the figures?

[Tinkelbell]

Has never happened to me personally but I've heard about quite generous compensation, top class hotels and even upgrades for the rescheduled trip.

We were once bumped -up to the first class.

We already settled on the economic class. Just moment before our flight set to leave, this lovely flight attendant came and asked us our name, after we told her, then she informed us we were up grade to first class because of our high mileages. Lucky us !

When we walked up to the front airplane to take our new seats, we saw two ladies last minute boarding, walked passed us and took over our previous occupied seats.

[Mighty Mouse]

The vast majority (if not all) airlines overbook flights as a matter of general practice - increases their profits.

You are correct but I'm not sure about the "profit" bit.

Last year at Bangkok Airport, I was checking in my luggage for British Airways to Oz, and there was a sign at the desk stating that the flight was overbooked. They were seeking passengers who were prepared to stay another night at the Airport Hotel (free) and fly home the following day.

They were offering 25,000 baht compensation plus all meals.

I said, "Yes please." I was in no hurry to get home.

The counter staff gave me a meal voucher to be used at the airport, and they told me to come back to the desk 40 minutes before take off time.

When I did return they told me that there was now enough seats on the plane for me to travel as booked.

At least I had a nice meal at their expense.

[lomatopo]

Most airlines have a Contract of Carriage which covers many details including compensation for Involuntary Denied Boarding (IDB) and Voluntary Denied Boarding (VDB), both of which results in free tickets, cash compensation or travel credits, and incidentals (meals, lodging, telephone calls). The OP should review SQ's CoC for details. Compensation also varies by location as foreign government rules vary, EU rules allow for extremely generous compensation.

Most airlines oversell economy and business class cabins based on complex and ever-changing inventory management data in an effort to maximize revenue/profitability. On any given day many, many pax miss flights due to illness, family emergency, oversleeping, flat-tire, mis-connect, going to the wrong airport, etc.

An airline will try to accommodate over-sells by VDB's and with no takers, resort to IDB's.

For airlines which offer assigned seating in advance of the day of travel always try to get a seat assignment as early as possible. Failure to get an assigned seat might be one indication of an oversell situation.

Check in as early as possible, including on-line (usually allowed up to 24 hours in advance).

Edited May 23, 2008 by lomatopo

[Zpete]

Way back when Continental were flying to NZ and OZ, asking for voluteers to skip over, was so regular, we made use of it.

4 times we were in Honalulu when volunteers were asked for.

The compensation was $US350.00 per seat, $US100.00 per person expenses plus free nites accommodation inc meals.

Our baggage went on scheduled flight, was waiting on trollies when we arrived in reclaim hall.

So quickly thru customs and immigration, 20 mins, great.

Of course we claimed on being "bumped", delayed, with our Travel insurance Co.

$NZ150.00 each.

All up it was 4 free trips plus.

NZ - US dollar at the time was around $NZ1.00 = $US00.56c

Loved Continental, AA and American were doing the same, Air New Zealand reckoned they did not do it, yeah, rite.......LOL