Need Help Writing Letter

[OneMind]

Hi, I have been planning on going to Thailand to ordain as a monk for some time now and I have finaly got enough money together to take off. I think I would rather have a wat to go to when I land rather than just wander around and hope for the best. Of all my research done on the web, I have been only able to find one wat that accepts westerners "wat pa nanachat"

I am thinking of going there because it is the only one I know of, does anyone else know of another?

Anyway, at the site I discovered the forest monastery, it said write ahead to avoid dissapointment. I am not very good at writing letters and i dont know where to start.

Should I adress it to the abot, like, Dear Abbot or Dear Bhante or Dear Monks

This probably sounds silly but any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

[sabaijai]

OneMind, almost any monastery in Thailand will accept foreign applicants for ordination, the rub being that if you expect to receive dhamma instruction in English, then your choices are narrowed to perhaps 12-20 places around the country.

A very good resource, if a bit out of date, is my friend Bill Weir's A Guide to Buddhist Monasteries and Meditation Centres in Thailand, published by the World Fellowship of Buddhists in Bangkok. A free online version is available at:

Guide to Buddhist Monasteries

Some wats require that you stay a certain length of time as a layman, perhaps in white robes, before being ordained as a samanera (novice monk), and then as a bhikkhu (fully ordained monk). Wat Pa Nanachat has such a policy, last I checked. It's a good place to spend time anyway, whether you ordain or just stay on as a lay student. I can also recommend Wat Ram Poeng in Chiang Mai, Wat Phra That Chom Thong in Chom Thong and Wat Suanmok in Chaiya as places with regular English-language instruction.

If I were you, I'd read through that online guide, choose three or four places that sound like they might be appropriate, and then write a letter to each. "Dear Venerable Sirs" would be a suitable salutation.

[OneMind]

Thanks for your advice Sabaijai

[Abandon]

The information in the guide you were recommended in a previous reply is chronically (pun) out of date. It was written 20 odd years ago. However it still gives a fair guide to what the temples are like. Contact names, and sometimes busses etc are defunct, but these temples are still the ones most likely to receive foreign ordinees.

Some problems have arisen over the years with foreigners who ordain and many abbots are now very wary, and will want you to stay a while before they commit to giving you ordination. They will be non committal until they know you so don't be put off. Basically if you can behave harmoniously with the Thai's then you will be fine.

A couple of things I should mention.

First, what country are you from? How old are you? How much experience with meditation do you have?

My honest recommendation, through experience, is that if you have not been in monasteries for long periods is that you start off in the West. The head temple of Wat Pah Nanachat is in England and this is by far the best place to start. I know it is romantic to feel you are going to a Buddhist land but there will be big problems with culture, language, and importantly the approach to Dhamma. Do you have experience living long term in Asian countries. I was a novice at this head temple near London - it's called Amaravati.http://www.buddhanet.net/masters/sumedho.htm

As a novice there you are knid of half in, half out of the Sangha - a good way to get the feel of it. You usually commit for a year. After that, if you still favour Thailand they can refer you to Wat Pah Nanachat. They have branches all over the world.

The advantages of doing it in the West are:

The teachers speak and give talks in English

A more rational approach

No culture, food, climate, or language problems.

Good libraries, friends, daily schedule etc..

Gotto say it, many Thai places are concerned mostly with pali studies, ceremonies, etc. and not much meditation, real applicable dhamma teaching, or adherence to the vinaya (rules of monkhood).

If you are still dead set on Thailand, take time and money to travel between the temples to find a place that suits you before asking for ordination. Meditation approaches vary enormously, as do the teachers.

If you click on my name to the left and PM or email me, I can put you in touch with a good Foreign monk in Thailand.

As for writing the letters, it's a good idea to write in advance for each place you go. Write to "the Guest Monk" and give your name, country, experience with BuddhaDhamma, age ... so they know what to expect. There is no formal format for letters so so long as its polite, it will be well received.

Metta

[sabaijai]

It was written 20 odd years ago.

The last updated edition was published 13 years ago. Jack Kornfield wrote the original in 1978 and Bill thoroughly revised it in 1985 and again in '91. Although 13 years old, the nice thing about the last edition is that it contains Thai script for all of the monastery names and addresses, very helpful.

Whether to start in a Western country or in Thailand is a personal matter, I think. Having spent time in monasteries in the USA, Myanmar and Thailand, I'd have to say I felt I connected most with the monasteries in Thailand. Yes some focus on pariyatta (degree) studies more than patibat (practice) studies, so if it's the latter you want, then you need to focus on that sort of place. All of those listed in the WFB pamphlet are still wat patibat, as far as I know.

However you may very well fit better with a monastery in the West. You won't know till you try it ...

Edited October 23, 2004 by sabaijai

[OneMind]

Wow, thanks guys. You have been really helpful.

I am living in Perth, Western Australia. I have stayed at a monastery called Bodhinyana here in Aus. It is a branch of Ajahn Chahs forest monasteries like the one in England with the famous Ajhan Brahm as abbot.

I only stayed there for 2 weeks. As a lay person I really didnt have much to do with the monks. I mainly cooked food and dug holes and stuff and was welcome to listen to the weekly talks.

The only problem I have with western monasteries, and I mean no offense, but it kind of felt like a retirement village. There was an abundunce of quality food, I never went hungry, cold or even had a mosquito bite. This may sound like a good thing but I felt like I was too comfortable and just got lazy and uninspired. I feel as though by going to Thailand and live rough for a while the dhamma may feel more urgent if that makes any sense. I have also been trying to teach myself Thai and would really like to learn it fluently.

I just turned 21 and have been accepted into uni starting next year. It feels like a total waste of time. I realize I am naive about Thailand and am probably expecting too much but i suppose I will never know if i dont go

Ideally, I would like to find a place where I can practice meditation in peace and also learn how to be a good monk and about all the rules and things that would be expected from me.

Thanks again for all your advice.

[Abandon]

Wat Pah Nanachat is effectivly a branch of the Perth temple, as the abbot Ajahn Nyanaviro trained with ajahn Brahm at perth for many years. My advice is go talk to the monks at Perth about the Thai/western approach. Ajahn Brahm or others there can refer you to WP Nanachat and then you will have no problems, and can also tell you when to go (sometimes they won't receive visitors such as the rains retreat period or the summer move to the mountain retreat in Kanchanaburi when Nanachat is all but empty.) They can also refer you to Amaravati in England. Having a letter of reference is important, though not essential. Otherwise they can recommend various places as all their monks have a lot of contact with Thailand and can point you to some less well known places that are good (such as Wat Maap Jan in Rayong province). There are also associated branch temples in Sydney, melbourne etc. where you will find some of the hardship you seek. I feel, as sabaijai does, more at home in the Thai Sangha but would not have made it if I hadn't gotten a firm grounding and self disciplined practise from the Western temples first. Anyway, they don't come much better than Ajahn Brahm. You also will need to arrange a 1 year non-immigrant R visa in advance as the ministry of Buddhism and culture do not like to convert tourist visas into non-R visas.

[OneMind]

Hi again Pandit

Today I went to the Thai consulate here in Perth and had a chat with some people there. They gave me a non immingrant(ed) visa pretty much straight away

They were more than helpful when I said I was going to be ordained

The woman there recommended me to go for a 30 day retreat at Northern Insight Meditation Center WAT RAMPOENG in Chiang Mai

She said by the end of the retreat you can request ordination or the head monk could refer me to another monastery if I like so this is what I will do

Thanks heaps for all your advice

[stroll]

As mentioned before, if you have not lived in Thailand nor Asia before, you'll be in for quite a shock. I am considering doing a spell in a wat myself early next year, and I assure you the change of environment combined with the language barriers are to be considered well in advance, even for a westerner resident in Thailand like myself. You'd be best off starting with a 'westernised' monastery, and I advice to visit different places before you committ, spending a day or so idling about and talking to folks you meet should give you a pretty good indication whether it is for you or not.

Research from a distance is not sufficient and doesn't enable you to make an informed choice, I am afraid.

Another practical issue is the time of year, expect to live in basic accomodation, and the heat and/or mosquitos can be a very real distraction. Traditionally, young Thais 'spend time' after the new year mid April. For someone accustomed to a different climate, November to February might be more suitable.

[Abandon]

Wat Rampoeng has a good reputation. Also visit Wat Umong in Chiang Mai. There's a very nice American monk living in the forest next ot the Wat. Glad you got the visa with no problems. I think it depends much on who you get at the embassy. Thai's are a warm people, and very supportive of Buddhism, and there are lots of venues for exploration in here, and lots of meditation systems. As anywhere, take precautions against theft (theives often target monasteries), and with your belongings. You can buy pretty much everything you need here so come light.

GL

[sabaijai]

The woman there recommended me to go for a 30 day retreat at Northern Insight Meditation Center WAT RAMPOENG in Chiang Mai

She said by the end of the retreat you can request ordination or the head monk could refer me to another monastery if I like so this is what I will do

I've practiced at Wat Ram Poeng and can recommend it highly. There are always a half dozen or so Westerners in residence there, both monastic and laypeople, and the two principal instructors speak good English. The meditation course there is very rigorous but it sounds like you're up for a challenge, so I'm sure you'll do fine.

Also at Wat U Mong there is an Australian monk named Phra Patrick who has been in robes 15+ years (if I remember correctly). Wat U Mong and Wat Ram Poeng are less than 2km apart. If meditation instruction is your first concern then WRP is more suitable. Both temples are happy to ordain qualified aspirants with little or no waiting period.

I live in Chiang Mai and visit Wat U Mong frequently, especially in the cool season (starting right about now). Feel free to PM me if you need any help settling in, assuming you choose this area.

Wat Ram Poeng's Northern Insight Meditation Center has a branch at Wat Phra That Chom Thong, in Chom Thong district about 90 min drive SW of Chiang Mai. This is where the original teacher and founder of the center, Ajahn Thong, now lives. If for some reason WRP is full, you could always go there. At both places you can begin instruction any day that's convenient, so you don't necessarily have to write in advance.

Northern Thailand has many other monasteries where foreigners are welcome. Wat Tham Thong, further west of Chom Thong near Hot, sits deep back in a forest dotted with limestone caves, and is treasured for monks seeking private, secluded practice. The abbot is a very warm fellow, happy to have monks coming from anywhere as long as they have space (outside of the rains retreat, they usually do).

Since you have your visa in hand I reckon that means you're on your way very soon. Good luck.

[Malle]

Hi everyone!

Sorry to hijack the topic

May I ask: do I understand you correctly Pandit35, if I say you'd recommend a year stay at Amaravati in England? If so, how does one go about that? Write a letter to the abbot, or join one of the retreats and inform further there and then?

I'll add a bit of info about myself. I'm from Belgium, age 27, clinical psychologist (currently unemployed). About a year ago I stayed in Thailand for 3 months, of which two were in a temple (a small one in Sadao, near the border with Malaysia in Songkhla province). My stay there was as a layperson, and the idea was to live with the monks and the aidspatiënts that were taken care off there. And do whatever one deemed suitable and possible :-)

Concerning meditation practice, I had one 10-day retreat here in Belgium at The Dhamma Pajjota Vipassana centre. And that's about it.

I'll leave out the reasoning/awareness of my desire to become ordained. Should it matter, I have no problem telling the story. My original idea was to head back to Thailand and find a suitable training center, perhaps assisted by the friends I had made there. The temple I stayed in was not very education-minded, and furthermore, no English speaking monks resided. Yes I had to learn Thai

So, do you think it would be a better idea to try start off in England? I know my sister for one likes that idea a lot better. Weekend-tripping to Thailand can be a timely and costly affair

Metta to all of you

Malle

[Abandon]

hey!

I always recommend to people to start off in the West for the reasons Stroll and I outlined earlier. Usually people find it a romantic idea to do it in an asian environment, but end up being frustrated and disillusioned. But it is not every case. Basically it is good to get a good foundation of Dhamma and a firm practise going first so that you are self sufficient in Dhamma before trying the asian places.

Amaravati is good for numerous reasons, but I was mainly thinking of someone who is intending to ordain for a long period of time - say 5 years+.

You can either go on some of their retreats - the website is listed in earlier post, and the 4 temples in the UK have retreats all the time - and take it from there, or you can write and express interest in ordaining as a novice for a year. This is a very good way in as you are half in/half out of the Sangha and you get the space and time to consider what you want to do. They will ordain you as a monk after 2 years as a novice. There are 10 temples in their group and you will have the chance to visit some of them and get to know the various abbots and monks. They all have a lot of experience and can advise where is good to go, and which teachers are good to stay with. Many monks visit too, such as the Supreme Patriarch of Cambodia (visited when I was there) or the Dalai Lama. Amaravati will be hesitant to commit until they know you, but so long as you can get along ok with folk you will be fine.

So yes - do a retreat first and take it from there.

Or write and say you want to be a novice for a year (novices are not children there as they are in Thailand, dress in white and practise right alongside the monks)

It is pretty easy going so it is up to you. I think you will find it a good experience even if you leave after the year and return to Thailand.

Write to "The Guest Monk" as the abbot is often not there.

Metta

[Malle]

but I was mainly thinking of someone who is intending to ordain for a long period of time - say 5 years+.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm intended to

I've written a letter explaining my objectives and requested to join a weekend retreat an d a few xtra days. I'll post again here, when things develop

[Abandon]

So go and do a year there - you won't regret it. By then you will have gained a fair idea of where to go next.

GL

[sabaijai]

Or write and say you want to be a novice for a year (novices are not children there as they are in Thailand, dress in white and practise right alongside the monks)

Novices - if you mean samanera - wear yellow/brown robes, the same as monks, but observe 10 precepts instead of 227. Residents in white robes - at least at Thai monasteries - are laypeople observing 8 precepts. May be just a case of semantics. In Thai it's clear - kraorawat for layperson, samanera or naen for novice, phiksu (bhikkhu) for monk.

In Thailand the white-robed practitioners are almost always adults, while samaneras are typically under 20 years of age since you have to be at least 20 yrs old to ordain as a bhikkhu.

So at the UK temples you have to wear white for 2 years?

[Abandon]

yep. They are called anagarikas and are expected to observe far more than 8 precepts - including the lesser rules around the way of eating, walking, talking to women, shaving the head etc.. They will live very closely with the monks and make a serious committment for at least a year. More than Thai novices (and many monks) actually observe. Usually 2 years is the minimum before full Bhikkhu ordination since there are high expectations of monks who are all front row ambassadors for the religion unlike junior monks in Thailand. Things are flexible however as the situation demands. It is a good and appropriate system in the particular environment of the West and an excellent way into a serious committment. For want of a better word I used 'novice' though strictly speaking you are quite right.

[Malle]

Hello again!

I told you I was going to post again when things developed. So here I am.

The last week I've been to Amaravati in Hertfordshire, England. I've done a weekend retreat and stayed a few days beforehand and after. It was a very quieting and peaceful experience. I'm convinced that peace can grow by being there and upholding the rules.

I've talked to the headmonk. Ajahn Sumedho wasn't there at that moment, so it was Ajahn Munindo. He seemed allright with me becoming an Anagirika, and suggested to stay for 3 months after the winter retreat. After those three months we can decide whether it still is a good idea. If so, I'll become an Anagirika for a year. But I'm taking things at a time. So first, there is Christmas at home

Many thanks for your advice. May you benefit from the merit I make by becoming an Anagirika.

Malle

[sabaijai]

Hello again!

I told you I was going to post again when things developed.  So here I am.

The last week I've been to Amaravati in Hertfordshire, England.  I've done a weekend retreat and stayed a few days beforehand and after.  It was a very quieting and peaceful experience.  I'm convinced that peace can grow by being there and upholding the rules.

I've talked to the headmonk.  Ajahn Sumedho wasn't there at that moment, so it was Ajahn Munindo.  He seemed allright with me becoming an Anagirika, and suggested to stay for 3 months after the winter retreat.  After those three months we can decide whether it still is a good idea.  If so, I'll become an Anagirika for a year.  But I'm taking things at a time.  So first, there is Christmas at home

Many thanks for your advice. May you benefit from the merit I make by becoming an Anagirika.

Malle

Thanks for letting us know, and best of luck with the 3-month stay.