Signing The Co. Balance Sheet Without A Work Permit...

[Marvo]

I need to sign the company end-of-year balance sheet but do not have a work permit. I understand it's ok for a foreign director to sign the papers if he's not in Thailand at the time of signing. If I take the papers with me on a visa run to Myanmar and sign them there, it will be on the same day as my stamp says I left Thailand, and returned to Thailand. Will that satisfy the Labour Dept in so far as I didn't do the "work" whilst I was IN Thailand?

Anybody?

[NHJ]

you're paranoid, simply sign the paper, the officials will not appear from the wall while you're holding the pen ready to sign the papers....

[bjhabal]

Take it easy, in the past I have signed hundreds of official paper for my companies, without even having a visa at all. All the work done by the accountant, and never been asked to report to any government agencies, though, I always been the managing director of my companies. It is just a routine work.

Bishop

[Marvo]

you're paranoid, simply sign the paper, the officials will not appear from the wall while you're holding the pen ready to sign the papers....

Thanks for the diagnosis NHJ. I'm merely looking for the legally acceptable procedure. I'm aware of the "so far, everybody has got away with it" procedure.

Take it easy, in the past I have signed hundreds of official paper for my companies, without even having a visa at all. All the work done by the accountant, and never been asked to report to any government agencies, though, I always been the managing director of my companies. It is just a routine work.

Bishop

Thanks for your experience Bish. I ask the question to confirm the correct "legal" procedure. I too believe that signing won't cause a problem but if papers are looked at, for a myriad of other possible reasons, (and the bureaucrats do love their bits of paper in Thailand) then it may add fuel to the fire.

It is just a routine work.

Precicely, with no WP

Edited May 28, 2008 by Marvo

[THAIJAMES]

you're paranoid, simply sign the paper, the officials will not appear from the wall while you're holding the pen ready to sign the papers....

Probably no need to be paranoid, however if there is a signature, there is a name, which means that this will be around as an official record for years....

[Sunbelt Asia]

you're paranoid, simply sign the paper, the officials will not appear from the wall while you're holding the pen ready to sign the papers....

Probably no need to be paranoid, however if there is a signature, there is a name, which means that this will be around as an official record for years....

Exactly, especially why have a smoking gun if in the years ahead you either want to go "legal" or if your competition reports you to the government. We have seen fines ranging from 10,000 Baht to as much as 50,000 Baht from the police when a work permit is applied for by the foreign managing director. If the company has been in existence several years, they need to show the audit. If the foreign managing director has signed in the previous years, they may need to show they were out of the country or the foreign managing director may be fined. Has this happen in every case… no, but it has happen especially in Chiang Mai.

Same day signing as long as you can show the passport exit stamp is fine. Keep a copy of this page of your passport in a safe place, in case you ever lose your passport.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[bjhabal]

You have asked a question and everybody answered you according to their experience or knowledge, non of us are either lawyers or government employees; however is it legal? Well if you know that it is legal then you won’t be asking this question in the first place; all what are you trying to do is to cover up illegal act so it can appear as a legal.

Is signing the papers outside will make your working in Thailand without a work permit legal?

If you are trying to do this just to buy sometimes in order to do your visa right, then it is ok, but my question is, if someone wants to check whether you have signed the paper outside or inside the country, wouldn’t he check too if you have a work permit or not?? I wonder!

Bishop

[Marvo]

You have asked a question and everybody answered you according to their experience or knowledge, non of us are either lawyers or government employees; however is it legal? Well if you know that it is legal then you won't be asking this question in the first place; all what are you trying to do is to cover up illegal act so it can appear as a legal.

Is signing the papers outside will make your working in Thailand without a work permit legal?

If you are trying to do this just to buy sometimes in order to do your visa right, then it is ok, but my question is, if someone wants to check whether you have signed the paper outside or inside the country, wouldn't he check too if you have a work permit or not?? I wonder!

Bishop

MY interpretation is that I am legal and following the letter of the Thai law (but I am biased ). However, the way Thai law is often worded leaves (often on purpose I believe) many angles open to the personal interpretation and discretion of the Dirctor General of the relevant office. I am merely "probing" for people's experiences on T.V. to asertain as to whether anyone has any anecdotal evidence (thank you as always Sunbelt) do back up my suspicion of the vaguries of the Thai law.

I do intend to apply for a work permit in due course and wish to have all of my ducks in a row when I do so, and "not be holding a smoking gun" (nicely put Greg)!

I understand what your saying Bishop but the only reason to sign the papers outside of Thailand is that if I did it inside Thailand I would be "working" in the kingdom without a work permit under the Thai definition of "work" (placing my signature) . I have no other function/interest in the company other that the investment. The maintaining of control of my investment, by being the director and sole authorised signatory (but not a working employee) is a normal legal position which does not require a work permit (if company duties are performed outside of Thailand).

[bjhabal]

You are right Marvo, and that’s exactly what I was doing; in fact the police came to my work places several times and asked me what am I doing there, and whether I have a work permit or not? my answers was no I do not have one, but I am not working, I am just checking the performance of my investments, and whether there were any documents to be signed, then they asked one of the employees if I was working there and he answered no, and that was all. Now if there is something new in the law, I have no idea but I do not think it is a big deal to just sign the documents, because the penalty for not signing it is harsher anyway. I wish good luck and hope everything will go smoothly.

Bishop

[astral]

Take it easy, in the past I have signed hundreds of official paper for my companies, without even having a visa at all. All the work done by the accountant, and never been asked to report to any government agencies, though, I always been the managing director of my companies. It is just a routine work.

Same here.

[Marvo]

Take it easy, in the past I have signed hundreds of official paper for my companies, without even having a visa at all. All the work done by the accountant, and never been asked to report to any government agencies, though, I always been the managing director of my companies. It is just a routine work.

Same here.

I guess I should stop reading samuiforsale.com before going to sleep at night

[OldenAtwoody]

If you are signing in Laos (or wherever) why not just go to a street notary and have them stamp beside your signature. Thus, you were out of the country, for sure.

[Bagwain]

You are right Marvo, and that's exactly what I was doing; in fact the police came to my work places several times and asked me what am I doing there, and whether I have a work permit or not? my answers was no I do not have one, but I am not working, I am just checking the performance of my investments, and whether there were any documents to be signed, then they asked one of the employees if I was working there and he answered no, and that was all. Now if there is something new in the law, I have no idea but I do not think it is a big deal to just sign the documents, because the penalty for not signing it is harsher anyway. I wish good luck and hope everything will go smoothly.

Bishop

Why would the police be coming to your business? I could understand the Labor or Tax Dept, maybe immigration?

Where is your business Chang Mai, Pattaya, Samui?

[gonzobrains]

If you are signing in Laos (or wherever) why not just go to a street notary and have them stamp beside your signature. Thus, you were out of the country, for sure.

Yes but if you are signing a work-related paper in Laos or Myanmar do you need a permit to "work" in those countries? hahaha. sorry just being devil's advocate.

[EmptyMind]

If you are signing in Laos (or wherever) why not just go to a street notary and have them stamp beside your signature. Thus, you were out of the country, for sure.

Yes but if you are signing a work-related paper in Laos or Myanmar do you need a permit to "work" in those countries? hahaha. sorry just being devil's advocate.

Thats probably true, You need a work permit to sign a paper that you need to sign and so you are working lol.

Oh let the flames begin but I'll agree and laugh. but hey, what if he signs it on the plane and he's in no mans land ?

[Marvo]

but hey, what if he signs it on the plane and he's in no mans land ?

Thanks Empty, you've got it! I'll be signing on the longtail going over to Victoria Point.

OK, let the discussion about where territorial waters begin and end. Even in an aeroplane you're in someone's airspace.

Oh the paranoia!

[digitalchromakey]

Phuket Labour Dept recently refused to accept an application for a new employee's Work Permit on the grounds that the Company Director who signed that application didn't have a Work Permit himself (and thus 'could not' sign it).

In this case the problem was easily resolved by getting one of the Thai Company Directors to sign the application instead

[Sunbelt Asia]

Phuket Labour Dept recently refused to accept an application for a new employee's Work Permit on the grounds that the Company Director who signed that application didn't have a Work Permit himself (and thus 'could not' sign it).

In this case the problem was easily resolved by getting one of the Thai Company Directors to sign the application instead

Always has been rejected and will be in the future... when a foreign MD with no wp applies for a wp for an employee.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[tworockslondon]

but hey, what if he signs it on the plane and he's in no mans land ?

Thanks Empty, you've got it! I'll be signing on the longtail going over to Victoria Point.

OK, let the discussion about where territorial waters begin and end. Even in an aeroplane you're in someone's airspace.

Oh the paranoia!

My understanding of International Law regarding aircraft (and ships) is that while on board and in flight in international airspace (waters), you are under the jurisdiction of the country in which the aircraft (or ship) is registered. So, if you were on a Thai Airways plane, you'd still be in Thailand!!!!!