Difficult Vaginal Penetration

[centric]

I am now becoming frustrated and in need of some helpful advice.

I am not sure where to begin with this.

After looking at the vaginismus thread I do not think it applies but am not sure.

Initially when I tried to have consensual intercourse with my then girlfriend she went rigid as I tried to penetrate. Her arms and legs were rigid. I could not penetrate her.

She had vaginal fluid and oral sex a few moments earlier had not been a problem.

Between then and our getting married I did not try penetrative sex again though we did have oral. She can also achieve orgasm.

Now we have been married a couple of months.

When she is laid on her back I cannot penetrate as her arms and legs become rigid the instant I try to penetrate. Even with plenty of foreplay including oral sex. I cannot even get the tip of my penis in.

There is also a look on her face and in her eyes when I try to penetrate her. The only expression I can think of to compare is that she looks like a frightened rabbit. That is scary. As if I am forcing her to have intercourse against her will.

If my wife sits on me she can have penetrative sex but it is very tight and she suffers vaginal bleeding afterwards. A big problem when I involuntarily thrust into her. She cried out in pain and jumped off me. She did resume after sitting back on me.

we have sat and talked about this with some difficulty and she tells me she enjoys having sexual intercourse with me though this happens rarely for obvious reasons as she clamps up on me and then there is that bleeding.

she does have one child so has had sex before in her previous marriage and claims there were no problems though it is not easy for her to talk about her former husband for reasons I do not want to talk about here. It does not involve problems relating to their sex life.

Another thing that she said and I am not sure if it is relative to this. She has told me that sex in the mornings afternoon and evenings is very bad though night time it is OK. I understand her family have told her how bad sex is at any time other than night time.

I am caucasian and she is Thai.

I do not consider myself to have a big penis more just average so do not think that makes such a difference.

I would like her to see a doctor but know she is not happy to talk about problems 'down there' and at the moment I am having to take a step back from this so not to aggravate the situation.

[FBN]

Ishe does have one child so has had sex before in her previous marriage and claims there were no problems though it is not easy for her to talk about her former husband for reasons I do not want to talk about here. It does not involve problems relating to their sex life.

Without looking at the psychological factors that may or may not be involved, the best is to determine if there had been any physical trauma with the first delivery. Was it a normal vaginal delivery or caesarian? Did she have a tear or episiotomy (cut during the delivery?) that was repaired afterwards?

Any trauma could have left scar tissue behind that would cause narrowing and pain as well as bleeding.

It is imperative that she be examined by a trusted O&G physician. The bleeding (unless it was close to her period) is very suspicious of previous trauma.

[Boo]

Vaginismus

[george]

Several off-topic posts were removed, please keep this civil.

Cheers

[zorro1]

Another thing that she said and I am not sure if it is relative to this. She has told me that sex in the mornings afternoon and evenings is very bad though night time it is OK. I understand her family have told her how bad sex is at any time other than night time.

This is more than likely the true reason and I will post more later regarding this.

Edited May 29, 2008 by george
Formatting /Mod

[julie_f]

You should really try and get her to go to the doctors regarding the bleeding. It may not be anything to do with her previous pregnancy.

[Carib]

Penetration is possible when your wife sits on you, ( stilll not easy) but not, when she is on her back.

On top, she is in charge, she is not when you are on top. Something ever happen to her, to make her feel more afraid in a " not in charge" position ?. Or does it just add to the whole situation. Doesnot have to be sex related, could be an other " power thing"

[bina]

sounds like the fear facture (the stiffening up); past bad experiences? incest? husband or other abuse her? she, being thai will never ever tell u; being shy, not knowing how u would react (husbands/bf's of rape victims often think the woman/girl is the cause and not the victim), etc...

OR anticipation of pain, so that she stiffens up, its painful, therefore she fears more pain...

either way, she needs to see a good gentle ob/gyn (maybe a female one?); and two, some kind of discussion with professionals (which thais arent usually thrilled about... )....

u may have to dig up family history on your own and piece it together..

yes, on top in control, also less painful fi there is scarring etc cause she can control the pressure, aim, and amount of movement etc...

bina

[Shotime]

Another thing that she said and I am not sure if it is relative to this. She has told me that sex in the mornings afternoon and evenings is very bad though night time it is OK. I understand her family have told her how bad sex is at any time other than night time.

This is more than likely the true reason and I will post more later regarding this.

I'd be real interested to hear more about this day vs. night thing.

[centric]

Penetration is possible when your wife sits on you, ( stilll not easy) but not, when she is on her back.

On top, she is in charge, she is not when you are on top. Something ever happen to her, to make her feel more afraid in a " not in charge" position ?. Or does it just add to the whole situation. Doesnot have to be sex related, could be an other " power thing"

Not a power thing. She is too shy and retiring for that. Even on top it is very difficult.

[centric]

Boo I did look at that and have not ruled it out

Bina thais are not easy to talk to about this subject. When I tried to talk some more about this I was told I was talking mai dee. Sex itself may not be mai dee but to talk about it is. She has now clammed up. I did find out the family will not and have never talked about sex but it is classed as a very dirty subject to talk about. Less pain on top sounds right and that gives her control over the pain yet for her it is still very difficult. Incest and violence and rape and other related incidents? I doubt I could discover those things.

Sensible post Bina. Thank you.

Whiskey? Since when does drinking solve a problem?

The bleeding. No sex for her for 2 year. Then (no bragging here) she has a larger penis than she has had and a painful fit even on top, I wondered if that was the cause of the bleeding. It does sound daft to say that because it would have to involve a tear or something?

Not near a period.

Night vs Day? The family obviously believe that sex is a dirty subject. More of a neccessary deed for making babies than for pleasure? So daytime sex is mai dee? I am only surmising here. I am no psychologist all I can go on is lifes experiences.

Doctors I will try to be tactful when she speaks to me again on the subject as it is now off limits.

[centric]

Another thing that she said and I am not sure if it is relative to this. She has told me that sex in the mornings afternoon and evenings is very bad though night time it is OK. I understand her family have told her how bad sex is at any time other than night time.

This is more than likely the true reason and I will post more later regarding this.

I would be interested to hear about this too Zorro1. Any serious input to help solve this problem I will listen to. For her and for me. Though I do feel it will be a long haul with no overnight fix.

[Smithson]

thais are not easy to talk to about this subject. When I tried to talk some more about this I was told I was talking mai dee. Sex itself may not be mai dee but to talk about it is. She has now clammed up. I did find out the family will not and have never talked about sex but it is classed as a very dirty subject to talk about.

I wouldn't agree Thais find it difficult to talk about sex or they consider it a dirty subject, although it is difficult to discuss within families. I remember a Thai commenting how it was bad to call sex jokes 'dirty jokes'.

Some Thais are very conservative, especially middle class bangkok Thai-Chinese.

Sounds like there's quite a bit of depth to the problem, sexual abuse is very common here and victims are often blamed. Incest and pedophilia are also common, but not talked about.

[zorro1]

Another thing that she said and I am not sure if it is relative to this. She has told me that sex in the mornings afternoon and evenings is very bad though night time it is OK. I understand her family have told her how bad sex is at any time other than night time.

This is more than likely the true reason and I will post more later regarding this.

I would be interested to hear about this too Zorro1. Any serious input to help solve this problem I will listen to. For her and for me. Though I do feel it will be a long haul with no overnight fix.

My ex G/f is Thai Muslim raised by a strict father. The first time I tried to initiate sex during the day she was mortified and anything too kinky is a no no and she also had this pained look during sex but unlike you I'm quite large . For some woman sex is what you do when everything else is done and Let me add she is not a practising Muslim, wears mini skirts and drinks alcohol occasionally but its just the way she was brought up. She never slept naked either. Generally Thai woman are conservative by nature for example you don't see to many ultra miniskirts or overly exposed breasts even in bars. In my wilder days it was interesting to note that even hookers always came out of the shower wrapped in a towel

[Shotime]

ZMan, I agree. It's kind of weird how "shy" or conservative they can be. I'm still not completely sure it's not just part of the game, but I can understand why she's your ex GF. When my GF says it, we both laugh. I say it now, too, but more as a joke, but I do feel embarrassed, and wrap a towel around me after a shower. Maybe a little too much info on my part, but it must be a cultural thing or part of the game. My GF has admitted, when her guard is down, that she's NOT shy about anything. I guess it's more to do with their mood at the moment. Go figure. I've learned to ignore it, and tell her it's nighttime where I come from. However, you do see ultra miniskirts and overly exposed breasts in some places.

[Poottrong]

Have you tried lubrication?

[britmaveric]

How about working a vibrator in? Then when she gets used to that I'd think work the real thing in.

[awakened]

Hi Centric

Very difficult. Sex is so fundamental to men that when it isn't working, relationships can disintegrate.

An 'ex' of mine was raped and stabbed in her teens. Lovemaking was fine, except for one night, when she seemed to be reacting with more excitement to me getting rougher. To experiment and trying to please her, I was a little more firm, when she suddenly froze then started to scream. She knew I would never hurt her. But...

Our lovemaking was actually very good for years after but I never overstepped the boundary again.

I guess the point of the post is that fear can so dominate that 'reason' goes out of the window.

Another experience involved a Thai lady. Like you I consider myself 'normal' but she was physically small and it was clearly painful for her. The fact that you are encountering both psychological and physical barriers must be daunting.

'Though I do feel it will be a long haul with no overnight fix.'

Or you may press the right buttons and it will be like a tear-filled dam bursting.

Whenever my g/f has clammed up on other issues and I have tried to get in through the front gate, so to speak, it's got me nowhere. Leaving it a few days has usually led to her broaching the subject. Trying to reach her through someone else usually backfires. Brooding just led to her saying 'I go. Not want make you unhappy' so that's out of the window. They really cover all bases.

What else is there to try? If... ahem... push comes to shove, a little emotional blackmail? What's the saying. 'All's fair in love and war'. i.e. dropping a hint that you are a man and men have needs and if you aren't able to achieve release inside the home, you may be forced to seek it outside. It's the last thing you want of course. Or take her to a bar and laugh and smile at another lady. The fear of competition might encourage her to at least talk about it. Maybe.

I just asked my g/f about her first experience with her husband. She said she was very shy and didn't want to look at him, so it was lights out only. It was painful and she bled and they didn't try again until after a week. Then again a week later. She said it was at least a month before the pain eased. I asked her what a man should do in your situation. 'Easy' she said. 'Find new lady'.

Anyway. Forgive my foolish thoughts. A female Thai poster would be helpful here.

Good luck.

[centric]

Have you tried lubrication?

How about working a vibrator in? Then when she gets used to that I'd think work the real thing in.

I cannot even get the tip of the penis past the wall that is there when she clams up. Lubrication when she is on top so far has not worked well. It is very very tight even then. We are talking a cork in a bottle tight

I cannot even get a finger tip in. She will clam up. On 2nd thought, maybe it is not a bad idea as a vibrator is not part of me? Worth considering.

[zorro1]

What about straight oral or 69? no pressure and enjoyable for both of you. Wait until she is on the verge of orgasm and then do a back flip and slip it in she will thank you for it

[coventry]

.

Now we have been married a couple of months.

Something aint right about this. You say you've been married a couple of months. So that means you were married on or before 2008-05-20. Am I right or wrong, that in 'Visa Advice Needed dated 2008-05-20' you claim "not to be married to a Thai" ? Perhaps you're married to a Farang which means I'm wrong and I apologise. No, in your opening post you say "I'm caucasian and she's Thai". Now I'm stumped. So in 9 days you go from not being married to having been married a couple of months.

Edited May 30, 2008 by coventry

[centric]

Hi Centric

Very difficult. Sex is so fundamental to men that when it isn't working, relationships can disintegrate.

An 'ex' of mine was raped and stabbed in her teens. Lovemaking was fine, except for one night, when she seemed to be reacting with more excitement to me getting rougher. To experiment and trying to please her, I was a little more firm, when she suddenly froze then started to scream. She knew I would never hurt her. But...

Our lovemaking was actually very good for years after but I never overstepped the boundary again.

I guess the point of the post is that fear can so dominate that 'reason' goes out of the window.

Another experience involved a Thai lady. Like you I consider myself 'normal' but she was physically small and it was clearly painful for her. The fact that you are encountering both psychological and physical barriers must be daunting.

'Though I do feel it will be a long haul with no overnight fix.'

Or you may press the right buttons and it will be like a tear-filled dam bursting.

Whenever my g/f has clammed up on other issues and I have tried to get in through the front gate, so to speak, it's got me nowhere. Leaving it a few days has usually led to her broaching the subject. Trying to reach her through someone else usually backfires. Brooding just led to her saying 'I go. Not want make you unhappy' so that's out of the window. They really cover all bases.

What else is there to try? If... ahem... push comes to shove, a little emotional blackmail? What's the saying. 'All's fair in love and war'. i.e. dropping a hint that you are a man and men have needs and if you aren't able to achieve release inside the home, you may be forced to seek it outside. It's the last thing you want of course. Or take her to a bar and laugh and smile at another lady. The fear of competition might encourage her to at least talk about it. Maybe.

I just asked my g/f about her first experience with her husband. She said she was very shy and didn't want to look at him, so it was lights out only. It was painful and she bled and they didn't try again until after a week. Then again a week later. She said it was at least a month before the pain eased. I asked her what a man should do in your situation. 'Easy' she said. 'Find new lady'.

Anyway. Forgive my foolish thoughts. A female Thai poster would be helpful here.

Good luck.

Not foolish thoughts at all. Yes, it is a daunting prospect with what seems to be physical and emotional barriers. The fear is something that scares me a lot. I have never seen fear like that before on a persons face in real life. Terror might sum up the look on her face.

To add to what you have said and some of what has been said here has really set me thinking. And as the situation is not getting better, but is actually getting worse as I talk over some ideas and possible solutions without trying to be too pushy and also waiting for her to respond to something I say or for her to make some comment.

Maybe now I understand why she or her family refuse point blank to let the daughter stay at our house. This is coming mainly from female members of the family from my understanding.

This idea of abuse and the fear on her face and her becoming rigid at the time of imminent penetration has set my mind working.

She left her husband either during the pregnancy or very soon after the birth of the daughter. She refuses point blank to talk about her husband except to say he was a very bad man, gambling, drinking and staying at other peoples houses. Not a word more will she talk about him or let me ask.

Then it looks like the fear on her face and the rigidity is a key to much of this. Her being on top does give her control as others have suggested. Not power control more the control of the situation. On her back she feels helpless?

Therefore if she was abused / raped / whatever by family or husband it could explain a lot. Explain too why either she or her family refuse to let the baby stay here. That has added another new dimension to this and I am seriously considering walking away.

This afternoon she has told me she will now be sleeping at her parents house on Fri, Sat, Sun nights every week. Telling me the baby misses her (0bviously) and her mother is getting little sleep. The family household is now unhappy.

My suggestion for the baby to live with us has been dismissed. It was accepted by the wife at first after persuasive argument from me. Then a phone call came. Now back to point blank refusal to let the baby sleep here.

Am I rambling???

I am glad of the ideas and more serious points made here. Understanding could be the key to a resolution and sometimes when in the middle of it all and getting frustrated you do not see it for what it is.

Thanks for the ideas.

[centric]

.

Now we have been married a couple of months.

Something aint right about this. You say you've been married a couple of months. So that means you were married on or before 2008-05-20. Am I right or wrong, that in 'Visa Advice Needed dated 2008-05-20' you claim "not to be married to a Thai" ? Perhaps you're married to a Farang which means I'm wrong and I apologise. No, in your opening post you say "I'm caucasian and she's Thai". Now I'm stumped. So in 9 days you go from not being married to having been married a couple of months.

Then I was not thinking straight at the time. Lack of sleep and trying to think of a solution is affecting me a lot. Not to mention I am drinking more as I feel I am hitting a brick wall. I was thinking of various options for different ideas to try and make things better. If that makes sense.

She is the wife but not officially. No papers signed. We did the party. As i recall someone pointed out she is not a wife because of that. So maybe I changed it from that.

To me she is the same as a wife.

[coventry]

.

Now we have been married a couple of months.

Something aint right about this. You say you've been married a couple of months. So that means you were married on or before 2008-05-20. Am I right or wrong, that in 'Visa Advice Needed dated 2008-05-20' you claim "not to be married to a Thai" ? Perhaps you're married to a Farang which means I'm wrong and I apologise. No, in your opening post you say "I'm caucasian and she's Thai". Now I'm stumped. So in 9 days you go from not being married to having been married a couple of months.

Then I was not thinking straight at the time. Lack of sleep and trying to think of a solution is affecting me a lot. Not to mention I am drinking more as I feel I am hitting a brick wall. I was thinking of various options for different ideas to try and make things better. If that makes sense.

She is the wife but not officially. No papers signed. We did the party. As i recall someone pointed out she is not a wife because of that. So maybe I changed it from that.

To me she is the same as a wife.

I think you are living in a dream world, your last post varifies it. I won't call you a troll as I don't think you're that, just someone with time to kill making up stories. I know I'm not supposed to be nasty to other posters but Centric is taking us for idiots.

[FBN]

helpful comment #24

are you sure you are not attempting to pot a difficult brown , in the mistaken belief that you are going for an easy pink ?

Thank you, it made my day!

[awakened]

I am curious as to why any woman, especially one who has already been married and had a child, would enter into a 'marriage' knowing that she is NOT going to have sex with her new 'husband'?

[Sheryl]

The tight spasms preventing penetration you describe is known as vaginismus and basically, it is a fear response over which she has no voluntary control. Now it could be that she has some physical problem which causes intercourse to be very painful, in turn making he rfear the pain and tense up (hence a check up with a Thai female Ob-Gyn is a good idea) but it is also possible that the fear is psychological.

By all means, check up if possible. Plenty of female Ob-Gyns around.

Beyond that, I would say just be loving, take it slow and easy, don't try to get her to over night put aside a lifetime of conditioning. Keep the sex in the night for now, don't talk directly about it, and above all approach it in a loving and romantic way. Not a recreational way.. That is a turn-off for many women, especially those from a conservative background. And work on the emotional side of the relationship, building trust and a sense of emotional security. That and patience will help.

If you can, I would also suggest that you put intercourse on the back burner for now and just do what she is comfortable with and enjoys. Let the next attempt at penetration be at her urging/invitation, even if that takes weeks or months to occur.

[Boo]

I have removed some posts suggesting the op is a wind up cause whether the op is a troll or not (& it isn't proven at all that it is) doesn't detract from a very interesting & useful subject that may in future help someone else.

It isn't important if the op is genuine or not based on the opinion of a couple of others as the topic itself is valid & hasn't, apart from one posters need to prove himself right, gone off topic & has produced some useful suggestions.

[Newbee]

How did she deliver her child? Was it a natural (vaginal) delivery? Were stitches too tight? Did she have a successful intercourse after the birth of her baby?

[awakened]

I am curious as to why any woman, especially one who has already been married and had a child, would enter into a 'marriage' knowing that she is NOT going to have sex with her new 'husband'?

If you care to read all of the OP mail you know that that he tells lies.

I care. I care.

If he is lying and you only have a suspicion he is, I'm sure the moderators will act. If not, I'm curious as to how he will answer.